Robin

city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?

--
Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4

Jason

I've got an 03 Sonata LX. I drive the car normally 90% of the time
but I also lean into it occasionally. I tend to average about 20-21
mpg. That's mostly "city" driving (35-60 mph, at least 1 stop per
mile). When I take longer trips where I can cruise at 75 mph then I
tend to get about 25-26 mpg.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 00:35:23 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:

>city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
>remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?

BJ

Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
Bob

"Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
> city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
> remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
>
> --
> Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4

Old_Timer

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 00:35:23 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:

>city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
>remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?

My Sonata is the 2000 GLS V6. I get 20-22 City and a top of 28MPG
highway.

Old_Timer

Robin

In article
<mmXJb.595876$0v4.23483932@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
> from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
> Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
> Bob
>
> "Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
> > city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
> > remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
> >
> > --
> > Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4
>
>

You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
that might be correctable?

--
Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4

jc

Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:

> city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
> remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?

I have a 2003 Sonata LX V6. In mostly city driving I get right around
20 mpg. On the highway, driving about 70-75 mph, I've gotten as much as
28 mpg. Cruise control definitely helps the mileage.

John

--
toneguru_uk-at-yahoo-dot-com

Jason

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:48:12 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article
><mmXJb.595876$0v4.23483932@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>> Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
>> from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
>> Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
>> Bob
>>
>> "Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
>> > city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
>> > remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4
>>
>>
>
>You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
>there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
>mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
>that might be correctable?

It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
HP.

As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.

Robin

In article <h43jvvs4k6ksfl7u9vghvsdo2mpjhgate8@4ax.com>,
Jason <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:48:12 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><mmXJb.595876$0v4.23483932@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> > "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
> >> from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
> >> Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
> >> Bob
> >>
> >> "Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
> >> > city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
> >> > remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4
> >>
> >>
> >
> >You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
> >there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
> >mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
> >that might be correctable?
>
> It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
> adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
> HP.
>
> As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
> that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
> something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
> being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.

Jason,
Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
that can be used in any make car?
1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?
2) If I should decide for a Hyundai XG350, would it be compatible? One
of the main reasons I'm leaning away from this car is the reported city
mpg of only 17.
3) Are you the same Jason that's active on the misc.consumers NG?
Robin

--
Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4

theta00k@yahoo.com

In article <robinxjoy-462956.08573805012004@news.west.***.net>, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <h43jvvs4k6ksfl7u9vghvsdo2mpjhgate8@4ax.com>,
> Jason <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:48:12 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article
>> ><mmXJb.595876$0v4.23483932@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> > "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
>> >> from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
>> >> Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>> >> "Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
>> >> > city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
>> >> > remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
>> >there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
>> >mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
>> >that might be correctable?
>>
>> It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
>> adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
>> HP.
>>
>> As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
>> that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
>> something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
>> being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.
>
>Jason,
>Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
>anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
>that can be used in any make car?
>1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
>other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
>and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
>the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?

K&N filter will not give any horsepower boost to any Honda, Hyundai or
whatever. Please do not use that filter on any car as it passes more
contaminants than the OE filter.

>2) If I should decide for a Hyundai XG350, would it be compatible? One
>of the main reasons I'm leaning away from this car is the reported city
>mpg of only 17.
>3) Are you the same Jason that's active on the misc.consumers NG?
>Robin
>

Jason

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 08:57:38 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <h43jvvs4k6ksfl7u9vghvsdo2mpjhgate8@4ax.com>,
> Jason <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:48:12 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article
>> ><mmXJb.595876$0v4.23483932@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>> > "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
>> >> from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
>> >> Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
>> >> Bob
>> >>
>> >> "Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
>> >> > city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
>> >> > remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
>> >there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
>> >mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
>> >that might be correctable?
>>
>> It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
>> adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
>> HP.
>>
>> As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
>> that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
>> something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
>> being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.
>
>Jason,
>Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
>anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
>that can be used in any make car?
>1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
>other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
>and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
>the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?
>2) If I should decide for a Hyundai XG350, would it be compatible? One
>of the main reasons I'm leaning away from this car is the reported city
>mpg of only 17.
>3) Are you the same Jason that's active on the misc.consumers NG?
>Robin

1. The filter I'm talking about is the air filter. K&N makes a part
for almost every vehicle so yes, you can get one for the Sonata, XG,
or Accord.

Most newer cars have very restrictive intake and exhaust systems. The
K&N air filter is more free-flowing than the stock factory parts used
by most manufacturers. In addition, it is not a disposable filter.
It does need to be periodically cleaned but this is a task that only
needs to be done every 20-30K miles unless you live in a very dusty
area. Less restriction in either the intake and exhaust will add
power as well as gas mileage.

2. The filters will, most likely, not be identical so you would need
to decide on what vehicle you are going to get before you buy the
filter. You can check on the needed part number @ the K&N web site
(http://www.knfilters.com).

3. No, the only other NG I frequent is alt.os.linux.gentoo. I do,
however, frequent several online message boards: [H]ard|Forum for
tech stuff, HyundaiPerformance, HyundaiAftermarket, NewTiburon, and
SonataSpeed for Hyundai stuff.

Jason

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:04:42 GMT, theta00k@yahoo.com wrote:

>In article <robinxjoy-462956.08573805012004@news.west.***.net>, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>In article <h43jvvs4k6ksfl7u9vghvsdo2mpjhgate8@4ax.com>,
>> Jason <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:48:12 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >In article
>>> ><mmXJb.595876$0v4.23483932@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>>> > "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
>>> >> from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
>>> >> Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
>>> >> Bob
>>> >>
>>> >> "Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> >> news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
>>> >> > city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
>>> >> > remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
>>> >there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
>>> >mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
>>> >that might be correctable?
>>>
>>> It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
>>> adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
>>> HP.
>>>
>>> As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
>>> that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
>>> something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
>>> being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.
>>
>>Jason,
>>Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
>>anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
>>that can be used in any make car?
>>1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
>>other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
>>and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
>>the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?
>
>K&N filter will not give any horsepower boost to any Honda, Hyundai or
>whatever. Please do not use that filter on any car as it passes more
>contaminants than the OE filter.

Not true on either count. While it's true that the aftermarket
filters you find at PepBoys or AutoZone for $9.99 are crap, K&N
filters are race tested and are recommended by everyone who knows
anything about automobiles.

It's widely known (and easily proved) that reducing restriction in the
intake and exhaust systems WILL increase power and WILL increase gas
mileage.

As for passing more contaminates, than the OE filter, I don't believe
it. There is a standardized testing procedure for filtration (SAE
J726). Most OE paper filters fall between 93-97%, K&N cotton filters
hover between 97-99%.

>>2) If I should decide for a Hyundai XG350, would it be compatible? One
>>of the main reasons I'm leaning away from this car is the reported city
>>mpg of only 17.
>>3) Are you the same Jason that's active on the misc.consumers NG?
>>Robin
>>

Luca

Jason said the following on 1/5/2004 7:23 PM:

> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:04:42 GMT, theta00k@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>>In article <robinxjoy-462956.08573805012004@news.west.***.net>, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <h43jvvs4k6ksfl7u9vghvsdo2mpjhgate8@4ax.com>,
>>>Jason <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:48:12 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article
>>>>><mmXJb.595876$0v4.23483932@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>>>>>"BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
>>>>>>from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
>>>>>>Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
>>>>>>Bob
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
>>>>>>>remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
>>>>>there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
>>>>>mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
>>>>>that might be correctable?
>>>>
>>>>It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
>>>>adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
>>>>HP.
>>>>
>>>>As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
>>>>that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
>>>>something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
>>>>being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.
>>>
>>>Jason,
>>>Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
>>>anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
>>>that can be used in any make car?
>>>1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
>>>other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
>>>and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
>>>the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?
>>
>>K&N filter will not give any horsepower boost to any Honda, Hyundai or
>>whatever. Please do not use that filter on any car as it passes more
>>contaminants than the OE filter.
>
>
> Not true on either count. While it's true that the aftermarket
> filters you find at PepBoys or AutoZone for $9.99 are crap, K&N
> filters are race tested and are recommended by everyone who knows
> anything about automobiles.
>
> It's widely known (and easily proved) that reducing restriction in the
> intake and exhaust systems WILL increase power and WILL increase gas
> mileage.
>
> As for passing more contaminates, than the OE filter, I don't believe
> it. There is a standardized testing procedure for filtration (SAE
> J726). Most OE paper filters fall between 93-97%, K&N cotton filters
> hover between 97-99%.
>
>
>>>2) If I should decide for a Hyundai XG350, would it be compatible? One
>>>of the main reasons I'm leaning away from this car is the reported city
>>>mpg of only 17.
>>>3) Are you the same Jason that's active on the misc.consumers NG?
>>>Robin
>>>
>
>
Will they void the warranty in any way? I am concerned about this.

theta00k@yahoo.com

In article <sfvjvvcf8c9h29sdr4btkh4csanogc0gip@4ax.com>, Jason <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:04:42 GMT, theta00k@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>In article <robinxjoy-462956.08573805012004@news.west.***.net>, Robin
> <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>In article <h43jvvs4k6ksfl7u9vghvsdo2mpjhgate8@4ax.com>,
>>> Jason <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:48:12 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >In article
>>>> ><mmXJb.595876$0v4.23483932@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>>>> > "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage
> runs
>>>> >> from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
>>>> >> Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
>>>> >> Bob
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> >> news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
>>>> >> > city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
>>>> >> > remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > --
>>>> >> > Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
>>>> >there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
>>>> >mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
>>>> >that might be correctable?
>>>>
>>>> It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
>>>> adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
>>>> HP.
>>>>
>>>> As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
>>>> that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
>>>> something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
>>>> being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.
>>>
>>>Jason,
>>>Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
>>>anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
>>>that can be used in any make car?
>>>1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
>>>other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
>>>and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
>>>the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?
>>
>>K&N filter will not give any horsepower boost to any Honda, Hyundai or
>>whatever. Please do not use that filter on any car as it passes more
>>contaminants than the OE filter.
>
>Not true on either count. While it's true that the aftermarket
>filters you find at PepBoys or AutoZone for $9.99 are crap, K&N
>filters are race tested and are recommended by everyone who knows
>anything about automobiles.
>
>It's widely known (and easily proved) that reducing restriction in the
>intake and exhaust systems WILL increase power and WILL increase gas
>mileage.
>
>As for passing more contaminates, than the OE filter, I don't believe
>it. There is a standardized testing procedure for filtration (SAE
>J726). Most OE paper filters fall between 93-97%, K&N cotton filters
>hover between 97-99%.


================================================== ==========
2000 Toyota Tundra SR5

Engine: 4.7 L / 8 cyl / Gas / DOHC
Fuel: Fuel Injection
Ignition: Distributorless
Trans: 4-speed Automatic Transmission (Electronic)
Mileage: 26,434 mi
Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
VIN: 5TBBT441XYS047306

Symptoms: MIL Lamp on
Occurs: Idle
More Info: Test results & repair history included below

_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________

hi all thanks for all the replies to this post. i knew all
about the maf problems but was glad to hear from all of you
about what i suspected all along. the problem wasnt the
maf,it was the aftermarket k&n intake system that 'adds
horsepower' lol. i compaired the g/s with another tundra
that happened to come in the next day and found that at
idle the K&N system saw 2g/s less at idle and 4g/s less at
2k rpm. decided to swap maf for fun. maf worked grate in oe
intake no problems. ordered up oe intake system installed
and drove vehicle fuel trim adjusted its self back to 0.
with after market intake too much unmetered air was
entering the intake system causing all 4 o2 sensors to show
0v on aceleration. with the suport of the iatn was able to
show and convince the customer that the K&N intake dosent
alwas help and sometimes cause problems. thanks hugh

_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________

hi all got this tundra in the shop strait from the
dealer.well it left the dealer about 400 miles ago.the
problem is system too lean fuel trim code.let me tell you
what i know about this truck first. i beleave that this is
a rich kids truck. customer states that he was off roading
in the desert when his aftermarket k$n intake fell off and
sucked a bunch of sand in the engine. result daeler
installed new engine. customer pay about 11k. now he states
that check engine light on with p0171. peformed smoke test
to check for vac leak none found. manifold vacuum is
21hg.engine stlii equiped withk$n intake and dealer
recomends oe air intake to solve the problem? freez frame
data is 692rpm 0mph 192f 11.3load ltftb1&b2=34.4 stftb115.6
b214.8 fuel press normal maf reading 4grm/sec the only
other thing to add is that i noticed on the scaner that all
4 o2 sensors went to 0 when climbing a hill? any and all
help apriceated.
=================================================
2001 Nissan Pathfinder LE

Engine: 3.5 L / 6 cyl / Gas / DOHC
Fuel: Fuel Injection / SEFI
Ignition: Distributorless
Trans: 4-speed Automatic Transmission (Electronic)
Mileage: 48,665 mi
Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
VIN: JN8DR09Y51

Misc Data: Calif.
Symptoms: Cuts out, Stall, MIL Lamp on
Occurs: Always
More Info: Test results & repair history included below

_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________

A new (rebuilt actually) MAF fixed it. All the evidence was
there, but I appreciate everybody's input. It really was
fairly cut and dry. 12v was good, 5v was good, ground was
good, but the MAF signal wouldn't change at all. I checked
it right out of the sensor and it was always right at 1
volt. I felt checking at the sensor ruled out wiring or PCM
problems. I don't think I mentioned in my original post
that it had a K & N air filter. Today I noticed on a 98
Sable a message molded into the air filter box that oiled
air filters might void the MAF warranty. I guess Ford
doesn't like them. Ther were signs of oil on the screen in
the MAF housing.

Nissan and some of you said this should be covered 3
years/50,000 miles. The customer refused to take it to the
dealer, which is unfortunate, because I have found our
local deater to be responsible and capable. Thanks
everybody.

_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________

Vehicle was cruising down the highway when Check Engine
light came on. Then it started running bad. After they
stopped, vehicle wouldn't run. Actually, it will idle, but
when throttle is applied, it coughs and dies, like a not-
enough-fuel problem. P0100 and P1320 were in memory. In
pending codes were:

P0340: Cam positon sensor

P0464: Fuel level sensor

P1140: Right bank intake valve timing control position
sensor

P0732: Incorrect shift to 2nd gear

P1320 and P0100

The only code that comes back after clearing is P0100, MAF
sensor.

In testing the 4 wires, 3 are OK: Blk/wht-bat. voltage,
blk/pink-ground,pink/blk-5 v.

The orange wire, however should vary from 1 v at KOEO to
2.2 v at 2500 RPM to 4.0 v at 4000 RPM.

I am only getting 1 v all the time. Actually, it won't run
much above 1500 RPM before it falls on it's face.

It looks like a bad MAF, but at $488 I need to be sure. Is
there anything else I should check? Does this fall under
any kind of federal emission warranty?

I am inclined to ignore the other codes until I deal with
the P0100.

Thanks for any input.
================================================
1999 Toyota Tacoma

Engine: 3.4 L / 6 cyl / Gas / DOHC
Fuel: Fuel Injection
Ignition: Distributorless
Trans: 5-speed Standard Transmission
Mileage: 36,463 mi
Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
VIN: 4TAWN72N3XZ

Symptoms: Poor Fuel Economy, MIL Lamp on
Occurs: Always
More Info: Test results & repair history included below

_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________

Thanks to IATN, another customer is driving his REPAIRED
vehile with a minimum of trouble or unnecessary expense. I
replaced the MAF, re-scanned the vehicle, and as the ECU
re-established its running information, watched as it
brought the LTFT back to a more normal range. The idle
started out very rough at first, which concerned me, but
after 20 minutes of normal driving, it smoothed out, and
the LTFT went from -40% ) -35% )-20% ) -9.4% and was
running very nicely as the happy customer drove off. By the
way, I was able to talk him into putting a Toyota air
filter back into the vehicle as well. Thanks to everyone
for the help and advice! Stephen

_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________

This Tacoma will trigger the DTC light very soon after
erasing the PO 172 code-system too rich. OBD 2 scaning
shows the LTFT trying to lean out the system as much as 40%
@ idle, and less as the load/throttle use increases. I am
not able to find any information on the air/fuel sensor,
and the scanner does not provide any information when
plugged in. Does anyone have a recommendation to test the
units, either with a scanner or current probe? Thanks for
your time
================================================
1996 Toyota Tacoma

Engine: 2.7 L / 4 cyl / Gas / DOHC
Fuel: Fuel Injection
Ignition: Distributor-Breakerless
Trans: 5-speed Standard Transmission
Mileage: 75,134 mi
Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
VIN: 4TAPM62NOTZ212410

Symptoms: No Start, MIL Lamp on
Occurs: After a Hot Soak
More Info: Test results & repair history included below

_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________

Well thanks again to the IATN members for help of another
successful fix! The problem was an oil contaminated hotwire
(air flow meter) the oil was from a K&N air filter. I
cleaned it with brake clean and then test drove while
monitoring the STFT and LTFT, the STFT immediatly dropped
from 25 percent to a negative 3 percent, the LTFT of course
was a little slower to respond but also started dropping
negative. Repair verified! Thanks to all who responded!

_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________

This vehicle has power loss and intermittently starts hard
(extended crank times) especially after hot soak. Although
the customer has intalled an aftermarket intake system (not
intake manifold) the factory airflow meter and air intake
temp sensor are installed. The fuel pressure is within
specs and does not bleed down. The O2 sensors also check
good. The scan tool shows the airflow at idle at about
3.5-3.7 g/s, is this correct? For some reason the Snap-On
scanner does not give me "normal values" for this vehicle.
All ideas are appreciated and TIA.
=================================================

Jason

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 19:34:52 -0500, Luca <loosedukeNOWAY@comcast.net>
wrote:

>Jason said the following on 1/5/2004 7:23 PM:
>
>> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:04:42 GMT, theta00k@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <robinxjoy-462956.08573805012004@news.west.***.net>, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <h43jvvs4k6ksfl7u9vghvsdo2mpjhgate8@4ax.com>,
>>>>Jason <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:48:12 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article
>>>>>><mmXJb.595876$0v4.23483932@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>>>>>>"BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage runs
>>>>>>>from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
>>>>>>>Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
>>>>>>>Bob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
>>>>>>>>remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
>>>>>>there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
>>>>>>mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
>>>>>>that might be correctable?
>>>>>
>>>>>It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
>>>>>adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
>>>>>HP.
>>>>>
>>>>>As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
>>>>>that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
>>>>>something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
>>>>>being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.
>>>>
>>>>Jason,
>>>>Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
>>>>anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
>>>>that can be used in any make car?
>>>>1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
>>>>other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
>>>>and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
>>>>the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?
>>>
>>>K&N filter will not give any horsepower boost to any Honda, Hyundai or
>>>whatever. Please do not use that filter on any car as it passes more
>>>contaminants than the OE filter.
>>
>>
>> Not true on either count. While it's true that the aftermarket
>> filters you find at PepBoys or AutoZone for $9.99 are crap, K&N
>> filters are race tested and are recommended by everyone who knows
>> anything about automobiles.
>>
>> It's widely known (and easily proved) that reducing restriction in the
>> intake and exhaust systems WILL increase power and WILL increase gas
>> mileage.
>>
>> As for passing more contaminates, than the OE filter, I don't believe
>> it. There is a standardized testing procedure for filtration (SAE
>> J726). Most OE paper filters fall between 93-97%, K&N cotton filters
>> hover between 97-99%.
>>
>>
>>>>2) If I should decide for a Hyundai XG350, would it be compatible? One
>>>>of the main reasons I'm leaning away from this car is the reported city
>>>>mpg of only 17.
>>>>3) Are you the same Jason that's active on the misc.consumers NG?
>>>>Robin
>>>>
>>
>>
>Will they void the warranty in any way? I am concerned about this.

Adding aftermarket parts (ANY aftermarket parts) cannot be cause for
the dealer to void the warranty on your car. What will happen,
however, is that you will lose the warranty on the part you replace
(which isn't really applicable in this case). For example, if you
were to replace the lower resonator, air box, intake tube, and upper
resonator on a Sonata LX with an AEM CAI (made for the Tiburon, most
V6 Tib parts will fit the 02-04 V6 Sonata) you would lose the warranty
on all the parts you removed. The remainder of the warranty can only
be voided if your aftermarket modifications caused another part to
fail. For example, if you install a CAI (without a bypass valve) and
you suck up a gallon of water by driving through a 6 inch "puddle" and
your engine hydrolocks, your CAI (and poor driving habits) are at
fault, the dealer will not cover the replacement engine and labor. If
your alternator dies the dealer can't void the warranty because there
is no way that a CAI caused that problem.

Back on the part at hand, there is no way that a quality aftermarket
air filter can void any part of any warranty, in fact, many dealers
offer aftermarket parts (that don't void the warranty) as dealer
add-ons.

Along that line, on January 15th, select Hyundai dealerships in the
USA will begin selling aftermarket parts (like new exhaust systems,
intake modifications, superchargers and turbochargers, body kits,
etc.) badged under the name "H.A.R.D. Parts." This plan was announced
at SEMA.

Jason

Those people are stupid. First of all, oil should not be dripping off
of the filter. Second, when re-oiling the filter you spray on the
outside (so that the oil must pass through the filter). Third, it
sounds more like the person had a full intake system (like K&N's
Typhoon of FPIK). That means that they removed the entire stock
intake up to the throttle body and replaced it with the K&N product.
The problem here is obvious.. Engine vibration (combined with
off-roading) WILL pull a cone filter right off the end of a tube
unless you crank it down REAL tight. The fault here is not K&N, the
blame lies with whoever installed the intake.

I've been using K&N filters for years and have never had a problem.
In fact, I just pulled apart my intake tube. There is not a drop of
oil on my MAF.

Oh, and you should NEVER, NEVER install a cone filter right to the end
of the MAF. It is well known that this will cause problems because
the increased air flow will cause quite a bit of vibration. The MAF
should be at least 4-6 inches from a cone filter.

FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS FOLKS AND THINGS DON'T BREAK!

On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:39:51 GMT, theta00k@yahoo.com wrote:

>In article <sfvjvvcf8c9h29sdr4btkh4csanogc0gip@4ax.com>, Jason <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 22:04:42 GMT, theta00k@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>>In article <robinxjoy-462956.08573805012004@news.west.***.net>, Robin
>> <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>In article <h43jvvs4k6ksfl7u9vghvsdo2mpjhgate8@4ax.com>,
>>>> Jason <none.of.your.business@see.left.of.at.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:48:12 -0800, Robin <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >In article
>>>>> ><mmXJb.595876$0v4.23483932@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>>>>> > "BJ" <rajohngm@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Have a 2003 Sonata with 2.7 engine that gets poor mileage. My mileage
>> runs
>>>>> >> from 15.5 to a best ever of 18.5 mpg. 90% of my driving is in town.
>>>>> >> Insurance rate with up $160.00 per year on Sonata over Chrysler T&C.
>>>>> >> Bob
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> "Robin" <robinxjoy@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>> >> news:robinxjoy-4338AF.00352304012004@news.west.***.net...
>>>>> >> > city and Hwy.... Also, if new to Hyandai, has your insurance rate
>>>>> >> > remained similar to last car, or increase or decrease?
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > --
>>>>> >> > Do not email if posting response. To email, replace x with 4
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >You may have read Jason's response that he averages 20-21mpg city. Is
>>>>> >there something in the way you drive that might account for the poor
>>>>> >mileage? Have you taken it in to the dealer to check for a malfunction
>>>>> >that might be correctable?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's worth mentioning that I have a K&N Drop-In Filter installed which
>>>>> adds another 0.5-1.0 MPG (depending on how you drive) and another 2-3
>>>>> HP.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for getting 15.5-18.5 MPG, you're either beating the hell out of
>>>>> that car, driving in 1st and 2nd gear at cruising speeds, or there's
>>>>> something wrong with your car. If you're driving like a normal human
>>>>> being then take that car to the dealer and have them give it a look.
>>>>
>>>>Jason,
>>>>Regarding the K&N drop in filter, I'm unfamiliar with this as I am with
>>>>anything having to do with the mechanics of a car, but is this something
>>>>that can be used in any make car?
>>>>1) If I should decide against purchasing a Sonata, and go for one of my
>>>>other two choices (an Accord XLV6 or Altima), can that filter be used
>>>>and would it be to any significant advantage since, if I'm not mistaken,
>>>>the HP is higher in those cars than Sonata?
>>>
>>>K&N filter will not give any horsepower boost to any Honda, Hyundai or
>>>whatever. Please do not use that filter on any car as it passes more
>>>contaminants than the OE filter.
>>
>>Not true on either count. While it's true that the aftermarket
>>filters you find at PepBoys or AutoZone for $9.99 are crap, K&N
>>filters are race tested and are recommended by everyone who knows
>>anything about automobiles.
>>
>>It's widely known (and easily proved) that reducing restriction in the
>>intake and exhaust systems WILL increase power and WILL increase gas
>>mileage.
>>
>>As for passing more contaminates, than the OE filter, I don't believe
>>it. There is a standardized testing procedure for filtration (SAE
>>J726). Most OE paper filters fall between 93-97%, K&N cotton filters
>>hover between 97-99%.
>
>
>================================================= ===========
>2000 Toyota Tundra SR5
>
>Engine: 4.7 L / 8 cyl / Gas / DOHC
>Fuel: Fuel Injection
>Ignition: Distributorless
>Trans: 4-speed Automatic Transmission (Electronic)
>Mileage: 26,434 mi
>Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
>VIN: 5TBBT441XYS047306
>
>Symptoms: MIL Lamp on
>Occurs: Idle
>More Info: Test results & repair history included below
>
>_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________
>
>hi all thanks for all the replies to this post. i knew all
>about the maf problems but was glad to hear from all of you
>about what i suspected all along. the problem wasnt the
>maf,it was the aftermarket k&n intake system that 'adds
>horsepower' lol. i compaired the g/s with another tundra
>that happened to come in the next day and found that at
>idle the K&N system saw 2g/s less at idle and 4g/s less at
>2k rpm. decided to swap maf for fun. maf worked grate in oe
>intake no problems. ordered up oe intake system installed
>and drove vehicle fuel trim adjusted its self back to 0.
>with after market intake too much unmetered air was
>entering the intake system causing all 4 o2 sensors to show
>0v on aceleration. with the suport of the iatn was able to
>show and convince the customer that the K&N intake dosent
>alwas help and sometimes cause problems. thanks hugh
>
>_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________
>
>hi all got this tundra in the shop strait from the
>dealer.well it left the dealer about 400 miles ago.the
>problem is system too lean fuel trim code.let me tell you
>what i know about this truck first. i beleave that this is
>a rich kids truck. customer states that he was off roading
>in the desert when his aftermarket k$n intake fell off and
>sucked a bunch of sand in the engine. result daeler
>installed new engine. customer pay about 11k. now he states
>that check engine light on with p0171. peformed smoke test
>to check for vac leak none found. manifold vacuum is
>21hg.engine stlii equiped withk$n intake and dealer
>recomends oe air intake to solve the problem? freez frame
>data is 692rpm 0mph 192f 11.3load ltftb1&b2=34.4 stftb115.6
>b214.8 fuel press normal maf reading 4grm/sec the only
>other thing to add is that i noticed on the scaner that all
>4 o2 sensors went to 0 when climbing a hill? any and all
>help apriceated.
>=============================================== ==
>2001 Nissan Pathfinder LE
>
>Engine: 3.5 L / 6 cyl / Gas / DOHC
>Fuel: Fuel Injection / SEFI
>Ignition: Distributorless
>Trans: 4-speed Automatic Transmission (Electronic)
>Mileage: 48,665 mi
>Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
>VIN: JN8DR09Y51
>
>Misc Data: Calif.
>Symptoms: Cuts out, Stall, MIL Lamp on
>Occurs: Always
>More Info: Test results & repair history included below
>
>_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________
>
>A new (rebuilt actually) MAF fixed it. All the evidence was
>there, but I appreciate everybody's input. It really was
>fairly cut and dry. 12v was good, 5v was good, ground was
>good, but the MAF signal wouldn't change at all. I checked
>it right out of the sensor and it was always right at 1
>volt. I felt checking at the sensor ruled out wiring or PCM
>problems. I don't think I mentioned in my original post
>that it had a K & N air filter. Today I noticed on a 98
>Sable a message molded into the air filter box that oiled
>air filters might void the MAF warranty. I guess Ford
>doesn't like them. Ther were signs of oil on the screen in
>the MAF housing.
>
>Nissan and some of you said this should be covered 3
>years/50,000 miles. The customer refused to take it to the
>dealer, which is unfortunate, because I have found our
>local deater to be responsible and capable. Thanks
>everybody.
>
>_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________
>
>Vehicle was cruising down the highway when Check Engine
>light came on. Then it started running bad. After they
>stopped, vehicle wouldn't run. Actually, it will idle, but
>when throttle is applied, it coughs and dies, like a not-
>enough-fuel problem. P0100 and P1320 were in memory. In
>pending codes were:
>
>P0340: Cam positon sensor
>
>P0464: Fuel level sensor
>
>P1140: Right bank intake valve timing control position
>sensor
>
>P0732: Incorrect shift to 2nd gear
>
>P1320 and P0100
>
>The only code that comes back after clearing is P0100, MAF
>sensor.
>
>In testing the 4 wires, 3 are OK: Blk/wht-bat. voltage,
>blk/pink-ground,pink/blk-5 v.
>
>The orange wire, however should vary from 1 v at KOEO to
>2.2 v at 2500 RPM to 4.0 v at 4000 RPM.
>
>I am only getting 1 v all the time. Actually, it won't run
>much above 1500 RPM before it falls on it's face.
>
>It looks like a bad MAF, but at $488 I need to be sure. Is
>there anything else I should check? Does this fall under
>any kind of federal emission warranty?
>
>I am inclined to ignore the other codes until I deal with
>the P0100.
>
>Thanks for any input.
>=============================================== =
>1999 Toyota Tacoma
>
>Engine: 3.4 L / 6 cyl / Gas / DOHC
>Fuel: Fuel Injection
>Ignition: Distributorless
>Trans: 5-speed Standard Transmission
>Mileage: 36,463 mi
>Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
>VIN: 4TAWN72N3XZ
>
>Symptoms: Poor Fuel Economy, MIL Lamp on
>Occurs: Always
>More Info: Test results & repair history included below
>
>_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________
>
>Thanks to IATN, another customer is driving his REPAIRED
>vehile with a minimum of trouble or unnecessary expense. I
>replaced the MAF, re-scanned the vehicle, and as the ECU
>re-established its running information, watched as it
>brought the LTFT back to a more normal range. The idle
>started out very rough at first, which concerned me, but
>after 20 minutes of normal driving, it smoothed out, and
>the LTFT went from -40% ) -35% )-20% ) -9.4% and was
>running very nicely as the happy customer drove off. By the
>way, I was able to talk him into putting a Toyota air
>filter back into the vehicle as well. Thanks to everyone
>for the help and advice! Stephen
>
>_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________
>
>This Tacoma will trigger the DTC light very soon after
>erasing the PO 172 code-system too rich. OBD 2 scaning
>shows the LTFT trying to lean out the system as much as 40%
>@ idle, and less as the load/throttle use increases. I am
>not able to find any information on the air/fuel sensor,
>and the scanner does not provide any information when
>plugged in. Does anyone have a recommendation to test the
>units, either with a scanner or current probe? Thanks for
>your time
>=============================================== =
>1996 Toyota Tacoma
>
>Engine: 2.7 L / 4 cyl / Gas / DOHC
>Fuel: Fuel Injection
>Ignition: Distributor-Breakerless
>Trans: 5-speed Standard Transmission
>Mileage: 75,134 mi
>Emissions: OBD-II Compliant
>VIN: 4TAPM62NOTZ212410
>
>Symptoms: No Start, MIL Lamp on
>Occurs: After a Hot Soak
>More Info: Test results & repair history included below
>
>_______________________ CLOSED W/FIX _______________________
>
>Well thanks again to the IATN members for help of another
>successful fix! The problem was an oil contaminated hotwire
>(air flow meter) the oil was from a K&N air filter. I
>cleaned it with brake clean and then test drove while
>monitoring the STFT and LTFT, the STFT immediatly dropped
>from 25 percent to a negative 3 percent, the LTFT of course
>was a little slower to respond but also started dropping
>negative. Repair verified! Thanks to all who responded!
>
>_____________________ ORIGINAL MESSAGE _____________________
>
>This vehicle has power loss and intermittently starts hard
>(extended crank times) especially after hot soak. Although
>the customer has intalled an aftermarket intake system (not
>intake manifold) the factory airflow meter and air intake
>temp sensor are installed. The fuel pressure is within
>specs and does not bleed down. The O2 sensors also check
>good. The scan tool shows the airflow at idle at about
>3.5-3.7 g/s, is this correct? For some reason the Snap-On
>scanner does not give me "normal values" for this vehicle.
>All ideas are appreciated and TIA.
>=============================================== ==