jmh_ottawa

2002 Elantra with 180,000 km highway driving...

Here's the problem but my dealer and another garage have yet to solve the
problem. I'm getting tired of paying to try things without a solution in
sight...

- steering wheel wobbles at lower speeds
- at higher speeds it's a vibration
- sometimes pulls to the left sometimes slightly to the right.. sometimes
not at all.

Here's what's been tried so far:

- Tie rod ends needed changing (Possibly unrelated)
- Several allignments (thankfully i didn't have to pay for all of them)
- Several tire balancings
- 4 new tires.. problem went away for a few weeks but is back again
- Re-balance made no difference

I suggested the rims may be the problem but i've been told several times
that the balancing would sort that out... but balancing is really the fix
if it was only a high speed issue right?

Any ideas or suggestions?

irwell

On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:00:21 -0400, "jmh_ottawa" <john@minasu.com>
wrote:

>2002 Elantra with 180,000 km highway driving...
>
>Here's the problem but my dealer and another garage have yet to solve the
>problem. I'm getting tired of paying to try things without a solution in
>sight...
>
>- steering wheel wobbles at lower speeds
>- at higher speeds it's a vibration
>- sometimes pulls to the left sometimes slightly to the right.. sometimes
>not at all.
>
>Here's what's been tried so far:
>
>- Tie rod ends needed changing (Possibly unrelated)
>- Several allignments (thankfully i didn't have to pay for all of them)
>- Several tire balancings
>- 4 new tires.. problem went away for a few weeks but is back again
>- Re-balance made no difference
>
>I suggested the rims may be the problem but i've been told several times
>that the balancing would sort that out... but balancing is really the fix
>if it was only a high speed issue right?
>
>Any ideas or suggestions?
>
So many eccentric circles involved, tires, rims,
axles, that trying to get rid of the vibrations
is a problem.

hyundaitech

If your wheel is bent, balancing may not sort things out well enough.

If it went away when the new tires were installed, I'd expect it to be a
tire issue. It's possible that one of the tires is defective and not
round or has a shifted belt or something. I'd expect primary assistance
from the tire installer; i.e. the problem is likely due to the tires, so
they should probably be checking and fixing the problem for free, if
indeed tire related.

Brian Nystrom

jmh_ottawa wrote:
> 2002 Elantra with 180,000 km highway driving...
>
> Here's the problem but my dealer and another garage have yet to solve the
> problem. I'm getting tired of paying to try things without a solution in
> sight...
>
> - steering wheel wobbles at lower speeds

That sounds like a bent wheel or a tires that's either worn unevenly or
improperly mounted.

> - at higher speeds it's a vibration

That would be consistent with the low speed wobble.

> - sometimes pulls to the left sometimes slightly to the right.. sometimes
> not at all.

That sounds like worn front ball joints or tie rod ends.
>
> Here's what's been tried so far:
>
> - Tie rod ends needed changing (Possibly unrelated)
> - Several allignments (thankfully i didn't have to pay for all of them)

If the tie rod ends are worn, attempting to align the car is an exercise
in futility. No reputable shop would do it.

> - Several tire balancings
> - 4 new tires.. problem went away for a few weeks but is back again

Are they wearing evenly? If the alignment is off, uneven wear will
result and cause the problem

> - Re-balance made no difference

If it's a wear problem, that wouldn't be surprising.

How do you drive the car? Aggressive cornering, wheelspinning
acceleration and hard stopping can all cause wear issues and/or internal
tire problems.

It sounds to me like the tires are the most likely culprit. If you had a
seriously bent wheel, you would feel the wobble no matter what. Jack up
the car and check to see if the tires hop or wobble when you spin them.
Look for uneven tread wear. If you see any of these, you've probably
found your culprit.

jmh_ottawa

I've had several new tires on the car so an actualy tire problem is
becoming improbably. I've been told that it's a possible belt shift but on
6 tires on the same car.. how many times can you replace tires at a cost
and keep being told it's the belts.

We're talking about 4 brand new tires that have seen less than 5,000 km...
all recently re-balanced after the initial installation.

After the tie-rod ends were replaced a while back an alignment was done..
none of this work seemed to have any effect so i took it back and asked
they re-check the alignement... which they did and said was fine.

At that point the focus shifted to tires... the two rear tires were
getting old so at this point ok 4 new tires and a re-balancing it is...

Yes the problem did seem to go away but only for about 2-3 weeks at which
point the problem returns.

After visiting my dealer and another garage...no one can really give me an
answer and i get comments like "well there's not much else it can be"...
i've changed tires, tie rod ends, had multiple alignment and balancings
done.

I've been told that balancing would take care of any rim issue and that
changing rims would be pointless but i'm starting to get tired at throwing
money at a problem that isn't going away. So far it's getting close to
$1000 over the past 6 months or so.

Tom

I've had the same IDENTICAL problem on my Kia Sedona van since it was new in
2003. I kept taking it back but they never could fix it. Replaced tires
twice. Did a tire load test. Alignments galore. The tires wear evenly and
I've had them replaced once after 30,000 miles. Still wobbles at slow
speeds on the steering wheel. This is from day one. I just live with it
until I trade it in. The Kia dealer is totally useless after taking it back
for oil changes and scheduled maintenance and complaining about the wobble
each time.

Tom


"jmh_ottawa" <john@minasu.com> wrote in message
news:ce50b4288041e052c930e3fdfe358895@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> I've had several new tires on the car so an actualy tire problem is
> becoming improbably. I've been told that it's a possible belt shift but on
> 6 tires on the same car.. how many times can you replace tires at a cost
> and keep being told it's the belts.
>
> We're talking about 4 brand new tires that have seen less than 5,000 km...
> all recently re-balanced after the initial installation.
>
> After the tie-rod ends were replaced a while back an alignment was done..
> none of this work seemed to have any effect so i took it back and asked
> they re-check the alignement... which they did and said was fine.
>
> At that point the focus shifted to tires... the two rear tires were
> getting old so at this point ok 4 new tires and a re-balancing it is...
>
> Yes the problem did seem to go away but only for about 2-3 weeks at which
> point the problem returns.
>
> After visiting my dealer and another garage...no one can really give me an
> answer and i get comments like "well there's not much else it can be"...
> i've changed tires, tie rod ends, had multiple alignment and balancings
> done.
>
> I've been told that balancing would take care of any rim issue and that
> changing rims would be pointless but i'm starting to get tired at throwing
> money at a problem that isn't going away. So far it's getting close to
> $1000 over the past 6 months or so.
>
>
>

Wayne Moses

Reply to message from "jmh_ottawa" <john@minasu.com> (Fri, 20 Oct 2006 21:
50:08) about "Re: Elantra steering wheel wobble/vibration":

j> We're talking about 4 brand new tires that have seen less than 5,000
j> km...
j> all recently re-balanced after the initial installation.

j> After the tie-rod ends were replaced a while back an alignment was
j> done.. none of this work seemed to have any effect so i took it back
j> and asked they re-check the alignement... which they did and said was
j> fine.

j> At that point the focus shifted to tires...
j> the two rear tires were getting old so at this point ok 4 new tires and
j> a re- balancing it is...

j> Yes the problem did seem to go away but only for about 2-3 weeks at
j> which point the problem returns.

j> After visiting my dealer and another garage...no one can really give me
j> an answer and i get comments like "well there's not much else it can
j> be"...
j> i've changed tires, tie rod ends, had multiple alignment and balancings
j> done.

Jim

In all these discussions l am yet to see any mention of rotating the
wheels. Either l missed that in your posts or it was the only thing you did
not do for this problem.

l agree with others that the focus is on the wheels / tires," and since the
tires have been changed I can only suspect that you may have a bent rim or
two in front.

Wheel balancing should show up side to side variations from true but maybe
it did not.

Why not rotate the wheels and tell us if that made a difference?

Best Regards
Wayne Moses <wmoses@houston.rr.com> Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:13:16 -0500

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 3.3

Brian Nystrom

jmh_ottawa wrote:
> I've had several new tires on the car so an actualy tire problem is
> becoming improbably. I've been told that it's a possible belt shift but on
> 6 tires on the same car.. how many times can you replace tires at a cost
> and keep being told it's the belts.

There's a difference between belt shift and uneven wear. The former
WOULD be improbable on six tires, but the latter would be very probably
if there is an underlying problem with the alignment or worn front end
parts (joints).

> We're talking about 4 brand new tires that have seen less than 5,000 km...
> all recently re-balanced after the initial installation.

It doesn't take long to trash a tire if the alignment or balance is out.

> After the tie-rod ends were replaced a while back an alignment was done..
> none of this work seemed to have any effect so i took it back and asked
> they re-check the alignement... which they did and said was fine.

Who did the alignment? I've found that shops that specialize in
alignment are far more likely to do a good job than dealers or tire
stores. In particular, chain tire stores - or any chain stores - tend to
be problematic.

> At that point the focus shifted to tires... the two rear tires were
> getting old so at this point ok 4 new tires and a re-balancing it is...
>
> Yes the problem did seem to go away but only for about 2-3 weeks at which
> point the problem returns.
>
> After visiting my dealer and another garage...no one can really give me an
> answer and i get comments like "well there's not much else it can be"...
> i've changed tires, tie rod ends, had multiple alignment and balancings
> done.

If the work has been done properly, that's true. For balancing, find a
shop with a Hunter balancing machine and a technician that knows how to
use it. Again, dealers and many tire stores - chains in particular - are
lousy at this.

> I've been told that balancing would take care of any rim issue and that
> changing rims would be pointless but i'm starting to get tired at throwing
> money at a problem that isn't going away. So far it's getting close to
> $1000 over the past 6 months or so.

Unless there is a visible wobble in one of your rims, that's not the
problem.

Here are a couple of other possibilities:

- One or more of the brake rotors could be badly out of balance (I've
heard of this happening with Elantras). If that's the case, no amount of
balancing of the wheels will solve the problem, unless they're done on
the car (not common these days). Even then, when you rotate your tires,
you'll have to get them re-balanced.

- The lug nuts may be over-torqued, under-torqued or inconsistently
torqued. If they were not installed using a torque wrench, they're not
likely to be correctly torqued. A reputable tire/wheel shop will ALWAYS
use a torque wrench on lugs.

Mike Marlow

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:gHM_g.3056$PA3.2712@trndny04...

>
> There's a difference between belt shift and uneven wear. The former
> WOULD be improbable on six tires, but the latter would be very probably
> if there is an underlying problem with the alignment or worn front end
> parts (joints).

As well, bad shocks will cause tire problems. Have you (the OP) looked at
the shocks yet?

>
> - The lug nuts may be over-torqued, under-torqued or inconsistently
> torqued. If they were not installed using a torque wrench, they're not
> likely to be correctly torqued. A reputable tire/wheel shop will ALWAYS
> use a torque wrench on lugs.

Though I've never seen torque related problems be as common as the concern
for them, it remains that today's wheels do indeed want to be torqued.
Rotors can be warped from improper torque. It's not as big of a problem as
it is given credit for, but it is an area to look at when running out of
ideas.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

jmh_ottawa

The alignements were done at the dealer and another garage.. both said they
were slightly out but not by much.

The rotors had been changed not too long ago but that was well after the
problem first showed up and has had no effect since.

The wheels have been rotated so many times that i now don't know where
they were originally when the problem first started.

Now i think about it more the rims themselves may be the issue as when
they were once rotated i do remember having a heck of a time getting them
off the rear. Perhaps they were damaged at that time... although i do
remember mentioning this to the tech's and they said a balancing should
sort that out..

One thing i've yet to try is a st of new rims if only on the front to
start.

Edwin Pawlowski

"jmh_ottawa" <john@minasu.com> wrote in message
> Now i think about it more the rims themselves may be the issue as when
> they were once rotated i do remember having a heck of a time getting them
> off the rear. Perhaps they were damaged at that time... although i do
> remember mentioning this to the tech's and they said a balancing should
> sort that out..

When wheels don't come of easily, a big hammer is the tool of choice. No,
balancing won't make them straight again. Have you tried raising the wheel
and spinning it with an indicator in place? Does not have to be fancy, a
couple of pieces of wood and a dowel that just about touches the rim.

irwell

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:06:24 -0400, "jmh_ottawa" <john@minasu.com>
wrote:

>The alignements were done at the dealer and another garage.. both said they
>were slightly out but not by much.
>
>The rotors had been changed not too long ago but that was well after the
>problem first showed up and has had no effect since.
>
>The wheels have been rotated so many times that i now don't know where
>they were originally when the problem first started.
>
>Now i think about it more the rims themselves may be the issue as when
>they were once rotated i do remember having a heck of a time getting them
>off the rear. Perhaps they were damaged at that time... although i do
>remember mentioning this to the tech's and they said a balancing should
>sort that out..
>
>One thing i've yet to try is a st of new rims if only on the front to
>start.
>
>
With 100,000 miles, just junk it and get another
car. once you have all these eccentric circles
out of whack you will never get it right.

jmh_ottawa

I think the first step is to verify the rims aren't the problem... i'll
likely wait till this storm passes and i get some nicer weather before
checking them out... if a new ones are needed then rims don't cost too
much but it's a place to start and it would give me some peace of mind
that they have at least been checked.

Brian Nystrom

jmh_ottawa wrote:
> The alignements were done at the dealer and another garage.. both said they
> were slightly out but not by much.

Did they do a four wheel alignment or just the front?

> The rotors had been changed not too long ago but that was well after the
> problem first showed up and has had no effect since.

Then their not likely to be the problem.

> The wheels have been rotated so many times that i now don't know where
> they were originally when the problem first started.

That may eliminate balance as the cause.

> Now i think about it more the rims themselves may be the issue as when
> they were once rotated i do remember having a heck of a time getting them
> off the rear.

That's not uncommon, as the Hyundai rims fit the hubs tightly. If you
clean off the mating surfaces and apply an anti-corrosion product, you
shouldn't have the problem again. BTW, the easiest way I've found to
loosen the wheels it to remove the lugs and whack the upper part of the
tire with your hand from the outside. That usually pops them right off
and won't damage anything. If the wheel is really stick, you can loosen
the lugs SLIGHTLY and drive the car a SHORT distance to break the wheels
free, then remove them normally.

> Perhaps they were damaged at that time... although i do
> remember mentioning this to the tech's and they said a balancing should
> sort that out..

Unless you really wailed on the rims with a hammer, they shouldn't be
damaged. Balancing won't help a bent rim.

Brian Nystrom

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "jmh_ottawa" <john@minasu.com> wrote in message
>> Now i think about it more the rims themselves may be the issue as when
>> they were once rotated i do remember having a heck of a time getting them
>> off the rear. Perhaps they were damaged at that time... although i do
>> remember mentioning this to the tech's and they said a balancing should
>> sort that out..
>
> When wheels don't come of easily, a big hammer is the tool of choice.

No, a big hammer is a BAD choice. See my other post for simple, safe
ways to break stuck rims free.

> Have you tried raising the wheel
> and spinning it with an indicator in place? Does not have to be fancy, a
> couple of pieces of wood and a dowel that just about touches the rim.

Exactly.