Well, I've posted about this car for the past two years, I've
driven it for one, it's now due for inspection and I need to
resolve as many issues as I can before cold weather sets in here.

The Car- 2002 Hyundai Sonata V6 2.7, 105K, overall good shape,
have all maintenance records since new, bought from original
owner 2 years ago for $3500.00

Goal- to make the car roadworthy, legal, and reliable. I am going
on the assumption that if I service the car now, I should get
another 5 years out of the car with no serious problems. If I'm
lucky <g>. Beyond 5 years, it may become my "beater" or, finances
permitting, I will get something newer. I walk to work and drive
about 3K miles/yr, mostly on my "beater" '92 Nissan Sentra.

How- I'm planning on having the local dealer do the work, mainly
because I can't get around going to a dealer for the recall work
and it's not worth it to me, time-wise, to "shop around"

Cost- whatever it takes, within reason. I did the brakes (pads,
rotors, calipers all around)myself, I could probably do the work
myself, but I don't really have the time and it's going to be to
cold to do it in the driveway soon.

What- The timing belt has never, AFAIK, been changed, seriously
interfering with my enjoyment of the car wondering if each drive
will be my last. So, timing belt, tensioner, idler, and water
pump. Dealer quoted me $400.00 on the belt, and $200.00 on the
pump. OK on the belt, high for the pump, but...whatever.

Since the pump is being done, time for new coolant. Should I
replace the radiator hoses, or any other hoses, that are now 7
years old? I know hoses don't fail like they did in the old days;
I suspect many cars are going to the junkyard with the factory
hoses these days.

Change ATF and filter. It's been done once or twice but with a
generic ATF which seems to be acceptable but I would prefer to
spend the next few years knowing I had Hyundai fluid and that the
tranny had been serviced by the dealer.

Recall on the engine cradle- they will drill holes in it,
probably, or replace the cradle (not likely, but possible).

Recall on the inside door handles- the chrome is flaking off,
leaving sharp edges.

Reprogram the ECM- The CEL is on and my scanner says P1134
Manufacturer Control Fuel Air Metering, which may mean 02 sensor,
but it may be a bug in the ECM which can be fixed with an update.

Tune up- I'm still up in the air about this. Seems to mean
"replace the spark plugs and wires". I would like to have this
done as at 100K it would seem to be time and my MPG could be a
little higher. OTOH, I've seen prices of $300+ here on this
group. I know it involves some labor, but this seems excessive.
For $300, I would do it myself, I think

Belt(s)- probably get whatever belts there are replaced while
it's there. I will pay whatever the dealer wants for the belt,
but I might try for a pass on the labor, since it has to come off
anyhow and I think I'm throwing them a $100 bone on the water pump.

So, I want to go to the dealer with a "laundry list", get a
quote, and make an appointment to leave the car a day or two. I'm
guessing about $800-1200 depending on the "tune up" and the 02
sensor. I would welcome any input about what to do, how to ask
for it, anything else that should be done while it's in, etc.

--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

 

On Oct 25, 9:55 pm, Plague Boy <plague_...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> What- The timing belt has never, AFAIK, been changed, seriously
> interfering with my enjoyment of the car wondering if each drive
> will be my last. So, timing belt, tensioner, idler, and water
> pump. Dealer quoted me $400.00 on the belt, and $200.00 on the
> pump. OK on the belt, high for the pump, but...whatever.


Actually, this price is very good on both the water pump and timing
belt with tensioner. I'd skip the idler, figuring I'd hear the
squealing/screeching if it died. But hey, your car, your money, your
reassurance.

>
> Since the pump is being done, time for new coolant. Should I
> replace the radiator hoses, or any other hoses, that are now 7
> years old? I know hoses don't fail like they did in the old days;
> I suspect many cars are going to the junkyard with the factory
> hoses these days.


I'd not bother with the hoses unless you can see a problem. Nearly
every coolant hose I've replaced on a Hyundai in the last 5 years had
been due to corrosion buildup on the aluminum engine component to
which it attaches.

If you do replace them, do not under any circumstances accept
aftermarket. I had a hearer hose burst on my Taurus. I hadn't
replaced the heater hoses when I did other coolant work because I saw
they'd already been replaced. When I removed the burst Gates hose, I
found the rubber was only about half as thick as that on the factory
hose I was installing to correct the problem.

>
> Change ATF and filter. It's been done once or twice but with a
> generic ATF which seems to be acceptable but I would prefer to
> spend the next few years knowing I had Hyundai fluid and that the
> tranny had been serviced by the dealer.

If the wrong fluid was installed, I'd recommend a flush/fluid
exchange, not just a drain and refill.

> Reprogram the ECM- The CEL is on and my scanner says P1134
> Manufacturer Control Fuel Air Metering, which may mean 02 sensor,
> but it may be a bug in the ECM which can be fixed with an update.

The dealer can check your vin to see if this reprogramming recall has
been performed on your car. If so, expect to pay for an oxygen
sensor.

>
> Tune up- I'm still up in the air about this. Seems to mean
> "replace the spark plugs and wires". I would like to have this
> done as at 100K it would seem to be time and my MPG could be a
> little higher. OTOH, I've seen prices of $300+ here on this
> group. I know it involves some labor, but this seems excessive.
> For $300, I would do it myself, I think

If your plugs were replaced at 60k as specified in the maintenance
chart, you should be able to wait another 25k before having this
done. If they've never been replaced, have the plugs and wires
replace (or do it yourself).

>
> Belt(s)- probably get whatever belts there are replaced while
> it's there. I will pay whatever the dealer wants for the belt,
> but I might try for a pass on the labor, since it has to come off
> anyhow and I think I'm throwing them a $100 bone on the water pump.

Dealer should be willing to hang a new drive belt for no additional
labor since they're removing it to do the timing belt/water pump.
Additionally, the reason the water pump is $200 is because they're
combining it with the timing belt. Otherwise it'd probably be about
$500. Normal charge with timing belt is 1 hour labor plus cost of
water pump, gasket, and coolant.

>
> So, I want to go to the dealer with a "laundry list", geta
> quote, and make an appointment to leave the car a day or two. I'm
> guessing about $800-1200 depending on the "tune up" and the 02
> sensor. I would welcome any input about what to do, how to ask
> for it, anything else that should be done while it's in, etc.

Just call up and tell them what you want done. They'll be happy to
get a job of this size.

 

hyundaitech wrote:
> On Oct 25, 9:55 pm, Plague Boy <plague_...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> What- The timing belt has never, AFAIK, been changed, seriously
>> interfering with my enjoyment of the car wondering if each drive
>> will be my last. So, timing belt, tensioner, idler, and water
>> pump. Dealer quoted me $400.00 on the belt, and $200.00 on the
>> pump. OK on the belt, high for the pump, but...whatever.
>
>
> Actually, this price is very good on both the water pump and timing
> belt with tensioner. I'd skip the idler, figuring I'd hear the
> squealing/screeching if it died. But hey, your car, your money, your
> reassurance.

Well, this was over a year ago. They are now quoting me $450 for
a "package", which is the timing belt and drive belt. The say the
tensioner and idler "are not usually done".
>

>> Change ATF and filter. It's been done once or twice but with a
>> generic ATF which seems to be acceptable but I would prefer to
>> spend the next few years knowing I had Hyundai fluid and that the
>> tranny had been serviced by the dealer.
>
> If the wrong fluid was installed, I'd recommend a flush/fluid
> exchange, not just a drain and refill.

The service manager says the filter is permanent. The tranny
flush is $169.00
>
>> Reprogram the ECM- The CEL is on and my scanner says P1134
>> Manufacturer Control Fuel Air Metering, which may mean 02 sensor,
>> but it may be a bug in the ECM which can be fixed with an update.
>
> The dealer can check your vin to see if this reprogramming recall has
> been performed on your car. If so, expect to pay for an oxygen
> sensor.

He said the ECM program will not fix a "hard error" that sets
the CEL. He couldn't tell me how much for an 02 sensor; I have to
pay $99.95 for the diagnostic. Then he will quote me.
>

> Dealer should be willing to hang a new drive belt for no additional
> labor since they're removing it to do the timing belt/water pump.
> Additionally, the reason the water pump is $200 is because they're
> combining it with the timing belt. Otherwise it'd probably be about
> $500. Normal charge with timing belt is 1 hour labor plus cost of
> water pump, gasket, and coolant.

He quoted me 1 hour labor on the pump. He said they would
"check if it was leaking". I told him I wanted it replaced while
they were in there. The coolant flush is $40.00 which was the
only quote that seemed quite reasonable.

> Just call up and tell them what you want done. They'll be happy to
> get a job of this size.

Well, their website said they were open to 8PM, and I got there
at seven, but I guess the service dept. closes at seven because
he didn't want to really talk to me about the repair. Said he
would call me tomorrow and quote me then. I really considered
calling the whole thing off and doing the work myself, but I
*can't* do the recall or the state inspection myself. The other
dealer got even worse customer reviews on-line, and the one that
got recommended is an hour's drive away. Well, I'll see what he
says tomorrow. Still welcome any advice/opinions.


--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

 

Plague Boy wrote:

<snip>

OK, I heard from the service manager about noon today. I need an
o2 sensor. It's $230.00 parts and labor. I'm not sure if that
includes the $99.95 diagnostic.

He also told me that they could not inspect the vehicle and pass
it until I drove it about 150 miles to turn the light off/reset
the code. They can't force the ECM to run that test. So I now get
to drive an uninspected vehicle 150 unneccessary miles and burn
$25.00 worth of gas.

I wish I just bought the o2 sensor and put it in myself, but I
really haven't had time and I was hoping the ECM reprogram would
fix the problem.

The timing belt, idler, tensioner, drive belt and water pump is
$950.00

The plugs and wires are $450.00.

So, add on the tranny flush at $169.00 and sales tax and I'm
looking at about two grand. So I told the dealer to put in the o2
sensor and do the 2 recalls. Everything else can wait; I don't
drive the car much. I've been using the '92 Sentra when I go
anywhere because I'm concerned about the timing belt breaking.
So, I'll see what my regular mechanic says he'll do the timing
belt for, and then decide if that's viable or if I should just do
all the work myself. I'll have to do the work outside and it's
getting pretty cold for long days under a car. Feh!


--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

 

On Nov 2, 10:17 pm, Plague Boy <plague_...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> He said the ECM program will not fix a "hard error" that sets
> the CEL. He couldn't tell me how much for an 02 sensor; I have to
> pay $99.95 for the diagnostic. Then he will quote me.

Agree with nearly everything the dealer told you except the part
above. Hyundai has a reprogram available for your vehicle which
they'll do for free for this particular code. Of course, if it's
already been done, then you do indeed need the oxygen sensor at your
expense. If you'd like, you can post your vin or e-mail it to me, and
I'll check whether the campaign is still open.

 

"Plague Boy" <plague_boy@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> He also told me that they could not inspect the vehicle and pass it until
> I drove it about 150 miles to turn the light off/reset the code. They
> can't force the ECM to run that test. So I now get to drive an uninspected
> vehicle 150 unneccessary miles and burn $25.00 worth of gas.

I'd take a vacation day from work and take my wife out for the day and take
a fall ride to the mountains. IMO, that time is not wasted. Add in the
cost of a nice lunch too.


>
> The timing belt, idler, tensioner, drive belt and water pump is $950.00
>
> The plugs and wires are $450.00.
>
> So, add on the tranny flush at $169.00 and sales tax and I'm looking at
> about two grand.

That sounds insane. I'd be talking to some independent shops.

 

Plague boy wrote:

>So, add on the tranny flush at $169.00
> and sales tax and I'm looking at about
> two grand.

It sounds like a good time to trade it in for something newer.


---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

 

---MIKE--- wrote:
> Plague boy wrote:
>
>> So, add on the tranny flush at $169.00
>> and sales tax and I'm looking at about
>> two grand.
>
> It sounds like a good time to trade it in for something newer.

Hmmm. I hate to admit it, but this is the *only* decent car I
have ever owned. I haven't had the best luck with it so far,
which is really not the car's fault. I guess I could see what I
could get for it as a trade in. I think I'd do better to just
pass on the work and take my chances. If the timing belt lasts
another 20K, at the amount I drive it will have rusted to peices
by that point. The tranny seems fine, it runs fine with the plugs
and wires it has, and clearly even if a tune-up boosted my gas
milage by 10%, I would never recoup my $450. The water pump may
well last the life of the car and I can flush the coolant myself.

Still, I really just want to feel confident in the car and drive
it for a few more years. I really was prepared to drop a grand or
so into the car to not have to do it my self.
--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

 

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Plague Boy" <plague_boy@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> He also told me that they could not inspect the vehicle and pass it until
>> I drove it about 150 miles to turn the light off/reset the code. They
>> can't force the ECM to run that test. So I now get to drive an uninspected
>> vehicle 150 unneccessary miles and burn $25.00 worth of gas.
>
> I'd take a vacation day from work and take my wife out for the day and take
> a fall ride to the mountains. IMO, that time is not wasted. Add in the
> cost of a nice lunch too.

Well, I'm actually getting "compensatory time off" from work
Friday because I worked last Sunday and they don't want to pay
overtime. I then have to work again Saturday, so it's not a three
day weekend, which would be nice.

So, I'm planning on a big shopping trip. Maybe a day trip would
be a nice break, though. I don't have a wife, so I would have to
rent one for the day, another expense of $50-500 depending on the
length of the trip and whether it was "around the world" or not,
and the size of the "mountains".


>
>> The timing belt, idler, tensioner, drive belt and water pump is $950.00
>>
>> The plugs and wires are $450.00.
>>
>> So, add on the tranny flush at $169.00 and sales tax and I'm looking at
>> about two grand.
>
> That sounds insane. I'd be talking to some independent shops.

I am considering talking to my regular mechanic, I'm sure he'll
be more reasonable. I still am thinking about doing it myself and
pocketing the difference. If only it was warm out.....

--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

 

Plague Boy wrote:
> Well, I've posted about this car for the past two years, I've
> driven it for one, it's now due for inspection and I need to
> resolve as many issues as I can before cold weather sets in here.
<snip>

> So, I want to go to the dealer with a "laundry list", get a quote,
> and make an appointment to leave the car a day or two. I'm guessing
> about $800-1200 depending on the "tune up" and the 02 sensor. I would
> welcome any input about what to do, how to ask for it, anything else
> that should be done while it's in, etc.

Update-

I dropped the car off Monday night, they said they would call me
Tues with quote. $950 for timing belt, tensioner, idler and water
pump. $450 for plugs and wires. $169 for tranny flush. $230 for
O2 sensor.

I told them to do the recall on the engine cradle and door
handles and the O2 sensor. They said they would call me when it
was ready, which I presumed would be that day (Tues.) No call.
Figured I'd hear from them Wed, but no call. Finally called them
Thurs since I had put in for Fri off to drive the car to get it
ready for inspection. They said it was ready. Guess they don't
actually call you when it's ready.

So, I went and picked it up, with some trepidation. The total
was $230.00 with tax. About $150.00 for labor and $54.74 for the
sensor.

Since they told me it would be $99.95 for the "diagnostic" and
they apparently rolled that into the labor, they charged me about
$50 to install the sensor, which seems fair. The price of the
sensor seems quite reasonable with what I've seen on-line, and,
although the $100 for them to hook it to the computer sucks,
especially since I already had the error code from my own
scanner, it's really to be expected so I won't complain.

They didn't seem to have any interest in reprogramming the ECM.
I got rushed through the drop-off because they were closing when
I brought it in. It looks as if, even though their web page says
they are open until 8, they actually close now at 7. Since I got
no reply to my email I sent a month ago trying to set the
recall/repairs up in advance, I'm guessing their "web presence"
is a red-headed stepchild.

I couldn't tell if they replaced the engine cradle or just
drilled it (invoice lists both) so I asked the service manager.
He looked at the invoice and said they replaced it. I'm dubious
(I don't think he's *lying*, just *mistaken*) but I will look and
see if it looks "replaced".

So, overall, my first "dealer" experience was..so so. They fixed
the car (I *hope*) and it wasn't outrageously expensive, although
I probably would have just bought the O2 sensor and put it in if
possible if I had known they wouldn't give the ECM reprogram a
shot first. I guess it's a bitch, but for $150.00 I'll go through
a lot of aggravation.

Their e- service sucked, never answered email and their web page
gives inaccurate information. AFAICT.

The never called me to let me know my car was ready. I have
another car, and walk to work, so I was not terribly
inconvenienced. If I had needed the car, I would have called
them. I don't know how long it took them to fix the car, the
invoice says in 11-2, out 11-3, so it looks as if it was ready
Tuesday.
















--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

 

Plague Boy wrote:
> Plague Boy wrote:
>> Well, I've posted about this car for the past two years, I've
>> driven it for one, it's now due for inspection and I need to
>> resolve as many issues as I can before cold weather sets in here.
> <snip>
>
>> So, I want to go to the dealer with a "laundry list", get a quote,
>> and make an appointment to leave the car a day or two. I'm guessing
>> about $800-1200 depending on the "tune up" and the 02 sensor. I would
>> welcome any input about what to do, how to ask for it, anything else
>> that should be done while it's in, etc.
>
> Update-
>
> I dropped the car off Monday night, they said they would call me
> Tues with quote. $950 for timing belt, tensioner, idler and water pump.
> $450 for plugs and wires. $169 for tranny flush. $230 for O2 sensor.

<cancel unnecessary work>

I went to my regular mechanic, and told him what I needed. He
doesn't do major internal engine work, it turns out (it's really
a tire store- tires, brakes, front end) and I guess he can't tie
up a bay for 5 hours for stuff like that. He recommended another
shop, so I drove over as it was on my way to put 150 miles on the
car to cycle the ECM anyways.

The guy at the shop listened to what I wanted, recommended I
change the water pump, and said he would use parts I supplied if
that was what I wanted. BUT no warranty if I provide the parts.
He will order the parts from the dealer if that is what I want
and told me it would cost more, which I knew. He said they would
check the idler and tensioner and replace them if they *needed*
it, OR I could replace them anyhow for the peace of mind.

So I was favorably impressed, he seemed honest and alert and
willing to "work with me". His basic quote was $350.00 for the
labor. He will work up a quote for parts if I'd like.

So: This looks to be about $300-400 cheaper than the dealer. I'm
guessing about $300 for parts, but I'm not sure whether to get
them from the Hyundai dealer or let the mechanic get them from
parts 'r' us- I'm thinking spending a few $$$ on the parts is
worthwhile. If the stuff he gets is "almost as good" as OEM, it
probably won't ever matter, but if it's really "el cheapo" stuff
it'll last long after his 90 day warranty is up but might bite me
in the *** in 2012.

I guess every body is bored with this thread, but I'd still be
open to comments....

--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

 

"Plague Boy" <plague_boy@earthlink.net> wrote in message >
> So: This looks to be about $300-400 cheaper than the dealer. I'm guessing
> about $300 for parts, but I'm not sure whether to get them from the
> Hyundai dealer or let the mechanic get them from parts 'r' us- I'm
> thinking spending a few $$$ on the parts is worthwhile. If the stuff he
> gets is "almost as good" as OEM, it probably won't ever matter, but if
> it's really "el cheapo" stuff it'll last long after his 90 day warranty is
> up but might bite me in the *** in 2012.
>
> I guess every body is bored with this thread, but I'd still be open to
> comments....

Not bored, that is why this group exists. To learn and help each other.

IMO, you are making a good move. You know the Hyundai parts are good
quality and it is worth a few $$ more for peace of mind, but certainly not
double. Make a quick phone call to find out the costs. Gates, for
instance, makes most of the belts that are used by every car maker. A Gates
belt from NAPA or Auto Zone is going to be just as good as dealer supplied.
Rebuilt parts like starters and alternators can vary in quality and price.
Spark plugs are good from any of the top brands. If the shop is going to
warrantee the job, I'd have confidence.

 

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "Plague Boy" <plague_boy@earthlink.net> wrote in message >
>> So: This looks to be about $300-400 cheaper than the dealer. I'm guessing
>> about $300 for parts, but I'm not sure whether to get them from the
>> Hyundai dealer or let the mechanic get them from parts 'r' us- I'm
>> thinking spending a few $$$ on the parts is worthwhile. If the stuff he
>> gets is "almost as good" as OEM, it probably won't ever matter, but if
>> it's really "el cheapo" stuff it'll last long after his 90 day warranty is
>> up but might bite me in the *** in 2012.
>>
>> I guess every body is bored with this thread, but I'd still be open to
>> comments....
>
> Not bored, that is why this group exists. To learn and help each other.
>
> IMO, you are making a good move. You know the Hyundai parts are good
> quality and it is worth a few $$ more for peace of mind, but certainly not
> double. Make a quick phone call to find out the costs. Gates, for
> instance, makes most of the belts that are used by every car maker. A Gates
> belt from NAPA or Auto Zone is going to be just as good as dealer supplied.
> Rebuilt parts like starters and alternators can vary in quality and price.
> Spark plugs are good from any of the top brands. If the shop is going to
> warrantee the job, I'd have confidence.

The question I would ask is what is the warranty on the belt and does it
cover incidental damage to the engine if the belt breaks. I don't know
if this is an interference engine, but many are nowadays.

I believe that hyundaitech said that Hyundai will warrant both the belt
and any engine damage that occurs should a dealer installed belt fail.
That could well be worth the extra $400 cost at the dealer if you plan
to keep the car a long time.

Matt

 

Voyager wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
<snip>

> The question I would ask is what is the warranty on the belt and does it
> cover incidental damage to the engine if the belt breaks. I don't know
> if this is an interference engine, but many are nowadays.
>
> I believe that hyundaitech said that Hyundai will warrant both the belt
> and any engine damage that occurs should a dealer installed belt fail.
> That could well be worth the extra $400 cost at the dealer if you plan
> to keep the car a long time.

Interesting question! I didn't think to ask the dealership what
the warranty would be on their work. I guess my presumption was
that the dealer would do it right, and that after the four year
interval on the belt was up, the car would probably take it's
chances. *I* will not be putting 100K miles on this car in the
next 4 years unless my life changes radically.

I'm guessing if the dealership did warrant the work for more
than, say, 90 days, that it would only be until the 4 year
interval on the belt was up. Which is only fair.

I've also bee thinking that I have been at cross-purposes with
the dealership. They wanted $950 for the belt, pump, idler and
tensioner. *I* am not overly familiar with what this system
comprises. I *meant* the belt, pump, idler pully, and tensioner
pully, which are all moving parts and, to my mind, subject to
wear and now have 100K miles on them. I see there is a tensioner
assembly, which is about $150.00. I wonder if *that's what the
service manager was telling me was not usually replaced. Although
if the tensioner goes bad, I guess the belt fails, I'm not so
gung-ho on replacing $100+ parts just for insurance. $25.00 parts
that are subject to wear and involve little labor to do at the
time, and much labor and potential expense and engine damage if
they go bad later, seem like a no-brainer to me.



--
PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

 

On Nov 7, 11:18 am, Voyager <m.whit...@computer.org> wrote:
> I believe that hyundaitech said that Hyundai will warrant both the belt
> and any engine damage that occurs should a dealer installed belt fail.
> That could well be worth the extra $400 cost at the dealer if you plan
> to keep the car a long time.
>
> Matt

This is correct if you're there's more than that period of time left
on the powertrain warranty-- the timing belt is a powertrain
warrantable component and will be covered as long as it's not overdue
for replacement. So if you're the original owner and replace the belt
after 4 years/55k miles, your remaining warranty on the belt is 4
years (the next replacement interval) or 45k miles (the end of the
powertrain warranty), whichever comes first.

Otherwise, it comes with the standard 1 year/12k mile parts warranty
within which Hyundai will stand behind the part and labor associated
with its failure. Quality of the workmanship falls under the dealer's
own warranty.