Brian Nystrom

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:P2Cff.97$Lw6.59@trndny02...
>
>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>I'm in upstate
>>>NY and we get snow! A tire that will handle long winters, hard pack
>
> snow,
>
>>>etc. is very important to me.
>>
>>If that's the case, why don't you get snow tires for the winter? The
>>difference in performance in snow and ice vs. ANY "all season" tire is
>>dramatic.
>>
>>
>
>
> Fair question. The reason is that I don't need them. Good radials do the
> job just fine. I haven't had a snow tire on a car in over 30 years.
>
You don't know what you're missing.

Brian Nystrom

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:P2Cff.97$Lw6.59@trndny02...
>
>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>I'm in upstate
>>>NY and we get snow! A tire that will handle long winters, hard pack
>
> snow,
>
>>>etc. is very important to me.
>>
>>If that's the case, why don't you get snow tires for the winter? The
>>difference in performance in snow and ice vs. ANY "all season" tire is
>>dramatic.
>>
>>
>
>
> Fair question. The reason is that I don't need them. Good radials do the
> job just fine. I haven't had a snow tire on a car in over 30 years.
>
You don't know what you're missing.

Mike Marlow

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:7zMgf.4665$8o6.520@trndny03...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:P2Cff.97$Lw6.59@trndny02...
> >
> >>Mike Marlow wrote:
> >>
> >>>I'm in upstate
> >>>NY and we get snow! A tire that will handle long winters, hard pack
> >
> > snow,
> >
> >>>etc. is very important to me.
> >>
> >>If that's the case, why don't you get snow tires for the winter? The
> >>difference in performance in snow and ice vs. ANY "all season" tire is
> >>dramatic.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Fair question. The reason is that I don't need them. Good radials do
the
> > job just fine. I haven't had a snow tire on a car in over 30 years.
> >
> You don't know what you're missing.

I have a buddy that is in his car all day as an insurance appraiser and the
company pays for him to put snows on his fleet car. He loves them. I
suppose there have been a few times where they've been very beneficial to
him when he's had to plow his way in and out of driveways that hadn't been
cleared, but we do a lot of driving to and from the same places (often at
the same time) and there's been absolutely no difference in the way our
vehicles have handled normal winter road conditions. By normal, I mean
loose snow, hardpack, ice, etc. The stuff we normally encounter in a winter
around here. He swears by his snows though. Guess I can't argue with the
folks who like them, but like I said - I have just never had the need. I
suppose he could prove that he can get going better than I can with the more
aggressive tread, and does not have to be quite as gentle taking off as me,
but those types of benefits just don't matter that much to me. The
difference in performance with his Grand Prix with snows and my Regal with
all seasons is just pretty trivial. Now - my plow truck, that's a different
story. Lugs. Deep lugs. Lots deep lugs...

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Mike Marlow

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:7zMgf.4665$8o6.520@trndny03...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:P2Cff.97$Lw6.59@trndny02...
> >
> >>Mike Marlow wrote:
> >>
> >>>I'm in upstate
> >>>NY and we get snow! A tire that will handle long winters, hard pack
> >
> > snow,
> >
> >>>etc. is very important to me.
> >>
> >>If that's the case, why don't you get snow tires for the winter? The
> >>difference in performance in snow and ice vs. ANY "all season" tire is
> >>dramatic.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Fair question. The reason is that I don't need them. Good radials do
the
> > job just fine. I haven't had a snow tire on a car in over 30 years.
> >
> You don't know what you're missing.

I have a buddy that is in his car all day as an insurance appraiser and the
company pays for him to put snows on his fleet car. He loves them. I
suppose there have been a few times where they've been very beneficial to
him when he's had to plow his way in and out of driveways that hadn't been
cleared, but we do a lot of driving to and from the same places (often at
the same time) and there's been absolutely no difference in the way our
vehicles have handled normal winter road conditions. By normal, I mean
loose snow, hardpack, ice, etc. The stuff we normally encounter in a winter
around here. He swears by his snows though. Guess I can't argue with the
folks who like them, but like I said - I have just never had the need. I
suppose he could prove that he can get going better than I can with the more
aggressive tread, and does not have to be quite as gentle taking off as me,
but those types of benefits just don't matter that much to me. The
difference in performance with his Grand Prix with snows and my Regal with
all seasons is just pretty trivial. Now - my plow truck, that's a different
story. Lugs. Deep lugs. Lots deep lugs...

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Brian Nystrom

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:7zMgf.4665$8o6.520@trndny03...
>
>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>news:P2Cff.97$Lw6.59@trndny02...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm in upstate
>>>>>NY and we get snow! A tire that will handle long winters, hard pack
>>>
>>>snow,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>etc. is very important to me.
>>>>
>>>>If that's the case, why don't you get snow tires for the winter? The
>>>>difference in performance in snow and ice vs. ANY "all season" tire is
>>>>dramatic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Fair question. The reason is that I don't need them. Good radials do
>>>the job just fine. I haven't had a snow tire on a car in over 30 years.
>>>
>>
>>You don't know what you're missing.
>
>
> I have a buddy that is in his car all day as an insurance appraiser and the
> company pays for him to put snows on his fleet car. He loves them. I
> suppose there have been a few times where they've been very beneficial to
> him when he's had to plow his way in and out of driveways that hadn't been
> cleared, but we do a lot of driving to and from the same places (often at
> the same time) and there's been absolutely no difference in the way our
> vehicles have handled normal winter road conditions. By normal, I mean
> loose snow, hardpack, ice, etc. The stuff we normally encounter in a winter
> around here. He swears by his snows though. Guess I can't argue with the
> folks who like them, but like I said - I have just never had the need. I
> suppose he could prove that he can get going better than I can with the more
> aggressive tread, and does not have to be quite as gentle taking off as me,
> but those types of benefits just don't matter that much to me. The
> difference in performance with his Grand Prix with snows and my Regal with
> all seasons is just pretty trivial.

Have you actually driven these vehicles back to back under the same
conditions? If not, how do you know what the difference is?

Brian Nystrom

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:7zMgf.4665$8o6.520@trndny03...
>
>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>news:P2Cff.97$Lw6.59@trndny02...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm in upstate
>>>>>NY and we get snow! A tire that will handle long winters, hard pack
>>>
>>>snow,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>etc. is very important to me.
>>>>
>>>>If that's the case, why don't you get snow tires for the winter? The
>>>>difference in performance in snow and ice vs. ANY "all season" tire is
>>>>dramatic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Fair question. The reason is that I don't need them. Good radials do
>>>the job just fine. I haven't had a snow tire on a car in over 30 years.
>>>
>>
>>You don't know what you're missing.
>
>
> I have a buddy that is in his car all day as an insurance appraiser and the
> company pays for him to put snows on his fleet car. He loves them. I
> suppose there have been a few times where they've been very beneficial to
> him when he's had to plow his way in and out of driveways that hadn't been
> cleared, but we do a lot of driving to and from the same places (often at
> the same time) and there's been absolutely no difference in the way our
> vehicles have handled normal winter road conditions. By normal, I mean
> loose snow, hardpack, ice, etc. The stuff we normally encounter in a winter
> around here. He swears by his snows though. Guess I can't argue with the
> folks who like them, but like I said - I have just never had the need. I
> suppose he could prove that he can get going better than I can with the more
> aggressive tread, and does not have to be quite as gentle taking off as me,
> but those types of benefits just don't matter that much to me. The
> difference in performance with his Grand Prix with snows and my Regal with
> all seasons is just pretty trivial.

Have you actually driven these vehicles back to back under the same
conditions? If not, how do you know what the difference is?

Mike Marlow

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vz6jf.59$Yf2.21@trndny04...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> >
> > I have a buddy that is in his car all day as an insurance appraiser and
the
> > company pays for him to put snows on his fleet car. He loves them. I
> > suppose there have been a few times where they've been very beneficial
to
> > him when he's had to plow his way in and out of driveways that hadn't
been
> > cleared, but we do a lot of driving to and from the same places (often
at
> > the same time) and there's been absolutely no difference in the way our
> > vehicles have handled normal winter road conditions. By normal, I mean
> > loose snow, hardpack, ice, etc. The stuff we normally encounter in a
winter
> > around here. He swears by his snows though. Guess I can't argue with
the
> > folks who like them, but like I said - I have just never had the need.
I
> > suppose he could prove that he can get going better than I can with the
more
> > aggressive tread, and does not have to be quite as gentle taking off as
me,
> > but those types of benefits just don't matter that much to me. The
> > difference in performance with his Grand Prix with snows and my Regal
with
> > all seasons is just pretty trivial.
>
> Have you actually driven these vehicles back to back under the same
> conditions? If not, how do you know what the difference is?

Yeah - that's what I was trying to point out above. Besides that, I have
had snows many years ago. Many years ago. For my style of driving and the
cars I drive, I just don't see enough benefit to me. That's not a statement
that those who like them shouldn't, it's just a statement that I've been
there, done that and I'm fine with my all season radials.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Mike Marlow

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vz6jf.59$Yf2.21@trndny04...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> >
> > I have a buddy that is in his car all day as an insurance appraiser and
the
> > company pays for him to put snows on his fleet car. He loves them. I
> > suppose there have been a few times where they've been very beneficial
to
> > him when he's had to plow his way in and out of driveways that hadn't
been
> > cleared, but we do a lot of driving to and from the same places (often
at
> > the same time) and there's been absolutely no difference in the way our
> > vehicles have handled normal winter road conditions. By normal, I mean
> > loose snow, hardpack, ice, etc. The stuff we normally encounter in a
winter
> > around here. He swears by his snows though. Guess I can't argue with
the
> > folks who like them, but like I said - I have just never had the need.
I
> > suppose he could prove that he can get going better than I can with the
more
> > aggressive tread, and does not have to be quite as gentle taking off as
me,
> > but those types of benefits just don't matter that much to me. The
> > difference in performance with his Grand Prix with snows and my Regal
with
> > all seasons is just pretty trivial.
>
> Have you actually driven these vehicles back to back under the same
> conditions? If not, how do you know what the difference is?

Yeah - that's what I was trying to point out above. Besides that, I have
had snows many years ago. Many years ago. For my style of driving and the
cars I drive, I just don't see enough benefit to me. That's not a statement
that those who like them shouldn't, it's just a statement that I've been
there, done that and I'm fine with my all season radials.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Jody

uhh theres been many tests done in scandinavia etc of the benefits of proper
winter tires...
I know fom experience, I switch to winters every year..
have you ever walked on ice with runners with rubber that goes hard? same
principal.
This moring i opened our door, snow up to my kness.
everyone with all seasons in our apt block were stuck the min they backed
out..
i value my life, for the sake of my family,my man,my nieces and nephews.
Thats far worth more than what id save by not going to proper tires to suit
the conditions.
im not hear to argue the point, just wanted to state mine.

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vz6jf.59$Yf2.21@trndny04...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:7zMgf.4665$8o6.520@trndny03...
>>
>>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:P2Cff.97$Lw6.59@trndny02...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm in upstate
>>>>>>NY and we get snow! A tire that will handle long winters, hard pack
>>>>
>>>>snow,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>etc. is very important to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>If that's the case, why don't you get snow tires for the winter? The
>>>>>difference in performance in snow and ice vs. ANY "all season" tire is
>>>>>dramatic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Fair question. The reason is that I don't need them. Good radials do
>>>>the job just fine. I haven't had a snow tire on a car in over 30 years.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You don't know what you're missing.
>>
>>
>> I have a buddy that is in his car all day as an insurance appraiser and
>> the
>> company pays for him to put snows on his fleet car. He loves them. I
>> suppose there have been a few times where they've been very beneficial to
>> him when he's had to plow his way in and out of driveways that hadn't
>> been
>> cleared, but we do a lot of driving to and from the same places (often at
>> the same time) and there's been absolutely no difference in the way our
>> vehicles have handled normal winter road conditions. By normal, I mean
>> loose snow, hardpack, ice, etc. The stuff we normally encounter in a
>> winter
>> around here. He swears by his snows though. Guess I can't argue with
>> the
>> folks who like them, but like I said - I have just never had the need. I
>> suppose he could prove that he can get going better than I can with the
>> more
>> aggressive tread, and does not have to be quite as gentle taking off as
>> me,
>> but those types of benefits just don't matter that much to me. The
>> difference in performance with his Grand Prix with snows and my Regal
>> with
>> all seasons is just pretty trivial.
>
> Have you actually driven these vehicles back to back under the same
> conditions? If not, how do you know what the difference is?

Jody

uhh theres been many tests done in scandinavia etc of the benefits of proper
winter tires...
I know fom experience, I switch to winters every year..
have you ever walked on ice with runners with rubber that goes hard? same
principal.
This moring i opened our door, snow up to my kness.
everyone with all seasons in our apt block were stuck the min they backed
out..
i value my life, for the sake of my family,my man,my nieces and nephews.
Thats far worth more than what id save by not going to proper tires to suit
the conditions.
im not hear to argue the point, just wanted to state mine.

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:vz6jf.59$Yf2.21@trndny04...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:7zMgf.4665$8o6.520@trndny03...
>>
>>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:P2Cff.97$Lw6.59@trndny02...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm in upstate
>>>>>>NY and we get snow! A tire that will handle long winters, hard pack
>>>>
>>>>snow,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>etc. is very important to me.
>>>>>
>>>>>If that's the case, why don't you get snow tires for the winter? The
>>>>>difference in performance in snow and ice vs. ANY "all season" tire is
>>>>>dramatic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Fair question. The reason is that I don't need them. Good radials do
>>>>the job just fine. I haven't had a snow tire on a car in over 30 years.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You don't know what you're missing.
>>
>>
>> I have a buddy that is in his car all day as an insurance appraiser and
>> the
>> company pays for him to put snows on his fleet car. He loves them. I
>> suppose there have been a few times where they've been very beneficial to
>> him when he's had to plow his way in and out of driveways that hadn't
>> been
>> cleared, but we do a lot of driving to and from the same places (often at
>> the same time) and there's been absolutely no difference in the way our
>> vehicles have handled normal winter road conditions. By normal, I mean
>> loose snow, hardpack, ice, etc. The stuff we normally encounter in a
>> winter
>> around here. He swears by his snows though. Guess I can't argue with
>> the
>> folks who like them, but like I said - I have just never had the need. I
>> suppose he could prove that he can get going better than I can with the
>> more
>> aggressive tread, and does not have to be quite as gentle taking off as
>> me,
>> but those types of benefits just don't matter that much to me. The
>> difference in performance with his Grand Prix with snows and my Regal
>> with
>> all seasons is just pretty trivial.
>
> Have you actually driven these vehicles back to back under the same
> conditions? If not, how do you know what the difference is?

Mike Marlow

"Jody" <jaar72ibear@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:xu8jf.5625$wf2.469357@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> uhh theres been many tests done in scandinavia etc of the benefits of
proper
> winter tires...
> I know fom experience, I switch to winters every year..
> have you ever walked on ice with runners with rubber that goes hard? same
> principal.
> This moring i opened our door, snow up to my kness.
> everyone with all seasons in our apt block were stuck the min they backed
> out..
> i value my life, for the sake of my family,my man,my nieces and nephews.
> Thats far worth more than what id save by not going to proper tires to
suit
> the conditions.
> im not hear to argue the point, just wanted to state mine.
>

That's fair - and I'm only stating mine as well. I live in Central NY where
we get approximately 300" of snow per year. I know well what driving in
snow is all about. Yes - we get snow up to our knees also. And... I have
driven through it as well. I don't try to convince people that they don't
need snow tires, I simply state that I don't use them and I have no
problems. I don't get stuck, I don't run off the road and I don't lose
control of my car. My '98 Regal has 150,000 miles on it so I don't sit at
home and not put on any miles either. We have 5 vehicles registered in my
family. Only my truck, which plows snow, has anything more than all season
radials in good condition. All four of the vehicles with ASR's navigate the
winters here just fine. Like you, I know from experience.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Mike Marlow

"Jody" <jaar72ibear@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:xu8jf.5625$wf2.469357@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> uhh theres been many tests done in scandinavia etc of the benefits of
proper
> winter tires...
> I know fom experience, I switch to winters every year..
> have you ever walked on ice with runners with rubber that goes hard? same
> principal.
> This moring i opened our door, snow up to my kness.
> everyone with all seasons in our apt block were stuck the min they backed
> out..
> i value my life, for the sake of my family,my man,my nieces and nephews.
> Thats far worth more than what id save by not going to proper tires to
suit
> the conditions.
> im not hear to argue the point, just wanted to state mine.
>

That's fair - and I'm only stating mine as well. I live in Central NY where
we get approximately 300" of snow per year. I know well what driving in
snow is all about. Yes - we get snow up to our knees also. And... I have
driven through it as well. I don't try to convince people that they don't
need snow tires, I simply state that I don't use them and I have no
problems. I don't get stuck, I don't run off the road and I don't lose
control of my car. My '98 Regal has 150,000 miles on it so I don't sit at
home and not put on any miles either. We have 5 vehicles registered in my
family. Only my truck, which plows snow, has anything more than all season
radials in good condition. All four of the vehicles with ASR's navigate the
winters here just fine. Like you, I know from experience.

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net

Brian Nystrom

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Jody" <jaar72ibear@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:xu8jf.5625$wf2.469357@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>
>>uhh theres been many tests done in scandinavia etc of the benefits of
>
> proper
>
>>winter tires...
>>I know fom experience, I switch to winters every year..
>>have you ever walked on ice with runners with rubber that goes hard? same
>>principal.
>>This moring i opened our door, snow up to my kness.
>>everyone with all seasons in our apt block were stuck the min they backed
>>out..
>>i value my life, for the sake of my family,my man,my nieces and nephews.
>>Thats far worth more than what id save by not going to proper tires to
>
> suit
>
>>the conditions.
>>im not hear to argue the point, just wanted to state mine.
>>
>
>
> That's fair - and I'm only stating mine as well. I live in Central NY where
> we get approximately 300" of snow per year. I know well what driving in
> snow is all about. Yes - we get snow up to our knees also. And... I have
> driven through it as well. I don't try to convince people that they don't
> need snow tires, I simply state that I don't use them and I have no
> problems. I don't get stuck, I don't run off the road and I don't lose
> control of my car. My '98 Regal has 150,000 miles on it so I don't sit at
> home and not put on any miles either. We have 5 vehicles registered in my
> family. Only my truck, which plows snow, has anything more than all season
> radials in good condition. All four of the vehicles with ASR's navigate the
> winters here just fine. Like you, I know from experience.
>
If you actually tried snows on one of them, you'd be amazed at the
difference in traction, control and ease of driving in slippery
conditions. There is absolutely no comparison. You may not think you
need them, but when you do and you don't have them, you'll regret it.
Living where you do, it's mind boggling to me that you won't even
consider snow tires. Getting by is not the same as being confident,
comfortable and in control.

Brian Nystrom

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Jody" <jaar72ibear@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:xu8jf.5625$wf2.469357@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
>
>>uhh theres been many tests done in scandinavia etc of the benefits of
>
> proper
>
>>winter tires...
>>I know fom experience, I switch to winters every year..
>>have you ever walked on ice with runners with rubber that goes hard? same
>>principal.
>>This moring i opened our door, snow up to my kness.
>>everyone with all seasons in our apt block were stuck the min they backed
>>out..
>>i value my life, for the sake of my family,my man,my nieces and nephews.
>>Thats far worth more than what id save by not going to proper tires to
>
> suit
>
>>the conditions.
>>im not hear to argue the point, just wanted to state mine.
>>
>
>
> That's fair - and I'm only stating mine as well. I live in Central NY where
> we get approximately 300" of snow per year. I know well what driving in
> snow is all about. Yes - we get snow up to our knees also. And... I have
> driven through it as well. I don't try to convince people that they don't
> need snow tires, I simply state that I don't use them and I have no
> problems. I don't get stuck, I don't run off the road and I don't lose
> control of my car. My '98 Regal has 150,000 miles on it so I don't sit at
> home and not put on any miles either. We have 5 vehicles registered in my
> family. Only my truck, which plows snow, has anything more than all season
> radials in good condition. All four of the vehicles with ASR's navigate the
> winters here just fine. Like you, I know from experience.
>
If you actually tried snows on one of them, you'd be amazed at the
difference in traction, control and ease of driving in slippery
conditions. There is absolutely no comparison. You may not think you
need them, but when you do and you don't have them, you'll regret it.
Living where you do, it's mind boggling to me that you won't even
consider snow tires. Getting by is not the same as being confident,
comfortable and in control.

Mike Marlow

"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
newsrijf.107$R02.86@trndny06...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > "Jody" <jaar72ibear@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> > news:xu8jf.5625$wf2.469357@news20.bellglobal.com.. .
> >
> >>uhh theres been many tests done in scandinavia etc of the benefits of
> >
> > proper
> >
> >>winter tires...
> >>I know fom experience, I switch to winters every year..
> >>have you ever walked on ice with runners with rubber that goes hard?
same
> >>principal.
> >>This moring i opened our door, snow up to my kness.
> >>everyone with all seasons in our apt block were stuck the min they
backed
> >>out..
> >>i value my life, for the sake of my family,my man,my nieces and nephews.
> >>Thats far worth more than what id save by not going to proper tires to
> >
> > suit
> >
> >>the conditions.
> >>im not hear to argue the point, just wanted to state mine.
> >>
> >
> >
> > That's fair - and I'm only stating mine as well. I live in Central NY
where
> > we get approximately 300" of snow per year. I know well what driving in
> > snow is all about. Yes - we get snow up to our knees also. And... I
have
> > driven through it as well. I don't try to convince people that they
don't
> > need snow tires, I simply state that I don't use them and I have no
> > problems. I don't get stuck, I don't run off the road and I don't lose
> > control of my car. My '98 Regal has 150,000 miles on it so I don't sit
at
> > home and not put on any miles either. We have 5 vehicles registered in
my
> > family. Only my truck, which plows snow, has anything more than all
season
> > radials in good condition. All four of the vehicles with ASR's navigate
the
> > winters here just fine. Like you, I know from experience.
> >
> If you actually tried snows on one of them, you'd be amazed at the
> difference in traction, control and ease of driving in slippery
> conditions. There is absolutely no comparison. You may not think you
> need them, but when you do and you don't have them, you'll regret it.
> Living where you do, it's mind boggling to me that you won't even
> consider snow tires. Getting by is not the same as being confident,
> comfortable and in control.

That's the whole point Bryan - most people around here do not use snows.
ASR's work so well that snows aren't really needed. Like I said - we drive
through harsh winter conditions. And like I said - I've used snows before
so I do appreciate what they do. The last set of snows I put on a car had
to have been somewhere around 20 years ago or so, so I have a pretty good
handle on how much confidence to put in my ASR's in the winter. As do most
of the cars around here.

One thing I should probably be a little more clear about that came to mind
last night. A lot of cars today have low profile, wide tires and many of
those up until very recently did not have aggressive tread and sipe
configurations. It wasn't stylish or something. Around here we refer to
those as skis. Absolutely useless in the snow and little better on wet
roads. All of my cars have a more conventional 70 or 75 series tire on
them. In the case of my daughter's '98 Malibu I took a full inch off of the
width of the tire by changing the series, and still maintained the proper
tire height. It was completely undriveable in the snow before I put the
70's on it. Now it cuts through and bites the way you want a tire to. I
used her car the other day to go deer hunting because my truck wasn't
available. Actually - I snuck out of the house with it before she was even
awake and had it back before she ever woke up, so she technically does not
know I "borrowed" it - but that's a side story. Anyway - I drove out into a
farmer's field a distance of 1/8 of a mile or so in snow that I was plowing
with the bumper. Never spun a tire. Parked the car in the snow, went out
into the woods, froze my butt off for the sake of seeing nothing, and then
got back in the car and proceeded to turn it around in the field and head
right back out. Not a single problem in doing so.

No - we don't just get by with our tires here - they perform as a tire
should. If I were on the edge or just getting by, I'd go the route of
snows. But - I've had snows and they just never offered any significant
margin over what I get with good ASR's. After 20-ish years to test the
theory, I have that confidence, comfort and control that you speak of. And
like I say - this is snow country and you don't often see a snow tire on
cars.

Good tires is the secret. No ultra wide, low profile, "cool" tires. Good
sipe design in the tread. Tread in good condition.

BTW Bryan - what part of the world are you in?

--

-Mike-
mmarlowREMOVE@alltel.net