Hello,

I have a Honda Civic 94. For the past two days, when I drive 10
miles from college back to my home and start the car after 15 or 20
minutes, my car shudders a lot and I see lots of white smoke from my
exhaust. After this when I drive, the smoke gradually goes away after
one minute of driving. If I leave the car and start it the next morning
(a gap of 12hours) or start from college back home (a gap of 10 hours),
there is no smoke but the car shudder very very lightly. It is not cold
here now in San Francisco.

Can I know the reason why there is smoke only when I start the car
after letting it cool for some minutes after driving for 10 miles and
not leaving it off for a very long time. I am a student and on a very
tight budget to spend on the car for repairs. So I need this groups
help to know what the problem is so that I do not get ripped of at the
garage. Can I also know what to check in my car.

Matthew

 

I would start by checking the level of coolant in the reservoir right now,
then before and after every trip. Monitor over several trips. If you see it
going down, right away start carrying extra coolant in a jug in your trunk,
preferably Honda OEM. If it continues to go down, stop driving the car,
because the likelihood is high that the head gasket is failing, and your
engine is not getting enough cooling. The engine can be seriously damaged.
Watch your dashboard's temperature gage very closely. Do not drive this car
if it's high.

With a failed head gasket, you're looking at a $600 to $1000 repair or so.

Keep checking back, as there might be other causes. But with a lowering
coolant level, this one is pretty likely.

Google for {"white smoke" civic} for more discussion. Then google for {"head
gasket" symptoms} for other things you can check to see if the head gasket
is failing, like coolant in the oil system, and oil in the coolant system,
and the white smoke smells sweet, like anti-freeze.

If it's a failed head gasket, then I believe the white smoke is steam. I
would expect it to be more plentiful after the car is fully warmed up, since
it takes high temperatures to convert coolant to steam.

Updates welcome.

<matthew_jamees@hotmail.com> wrote
> I have a Honda Civic 94. For the past two days, when I drive 10
> miles from college back to my home and start the car after 15 or 20
> minutes, my car shudders a lot and I see lots of white smoke from my
> exhaust. After this when I drive, the smoke gradually goes away after
> one minute of driving. If I leave the car and start it the next morning
> (a gap of 12hours) or start from college back home (a gap of 10 hours),
> there is no smoke but the car shudder very very lightly. It is not cold
> here now in San Francisco.
>
> Can I know the reason why there is smoke only when I start the car
> after letting it cool for some minutes after driving for 10 miles and
> not leaving it off for a very long time. I am a student and on a very
> tight budget to spend on the car for repairs. So I need this groups
> help to know what the problem is so that I do not get ripped of at the
> garage. Can I also know what to check in my car.
>
> Matthew
>

 

On 4 Feb 2006 09:27:59 -0800, matthew_jamees@hotmail.com wrote:

>Hello,
>
> I have a Honda Civic 94. For the past two days, when I drive 10
>miles from college back to my home and start the car after 15 or 20
>minutes, my car shudders a lot and I see lots of white smoke from my
>exhaust.

This sure sounds like water in the system. I agree with everything the
other poster said. I would add to pull the dipstick and look at the
oil when the engine is cold, or at least cool. If the oil is milky
looking, that is an indication of water in the oil. The water-oil
mixture gets emulsified and looks milky.

If the oil is not milky, then a head gasket leak is the likely
culprit. if the oil is milky, then it could still be a head gasket,
but that also raises the possibility of a cracked block or cracked
head.

If you confirm it is a coolant leak by following the instructions in
the pther post, and a repair is out of the question, then a can of
leak stop is always a possibility. I have had, over many years, good
success with Bars Leak.

Hope one of the replies helps.



Elliot Richmond
Freelance Science Writer and Editor

 

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 20:22:18 GMT, Elliot Richmond
<xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:

>On 4 Feb 2006 09:27:59 -0800, matthew_jamees@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>> I have a Honda Civic 94. For the past two days, when I drive 10
>>miles from college back to my home and start the car after 15 or 20
>>minutes, my car shudders a lot and I see lots of white smoke from my
>>exhaust.
>
>This sure sounds like water in the system. I agree with everything the
>other poster said. I would add to pull the dipstick and look at the
>oil when the engine is cold, or at least cool. If the oil is milky
>looking, that is an indication of water in the oil. The water-oil
>mixture gets emulsified and looks milky.
>
>If the oil is not milky, then a head gasket leak is the likely
>culprit. if the oil is milky, then it could still be a head gasket,
>but that also raises the possibility of a cracked block or cracked
>head.
>
>If you confirm it is a coolant leak by following the instructions in
>the pther post, and a repair is out of the question, then a can of
>leak stop is always a possibility. I have had, over many years, good
>success with Bars Leak.
>
>Hope one of the replies helps.
>
>
>
>Elliot Richmond
>Freelance Science Writer and Editor


excessive white smoke from the exhaust is a classic
symptom of a head gasket issue or something along the lines
of a cracked head.

 

Thanks for all your reply. It really helped a lot and will watch for
the coolant and take coolant with me till this issue is fixed.

I looked at the coolant level and it has decreased around 2 inches
since the past 15 days. When I noticed the level 15 days back the
engine was very very hot (see below). After I saw Elle's post, I looked
at the coolant level (the engine was not driven since 11 hours) and
noticed the decrease in coolant. Will the coolant level will increase
when the engine is very very hot? If yes, the decrease of 2 inches
noticed might not be a correct observation.

To give a little history:
16 days back, while driving with the heater on at level "1", I felt
unusually warm after driving for 8 or 9 miles and noticed the dashboard
temperature going high. I immediately stopped the car and had it towed.
The mechanic showed me coolant on the entire width of the top and over
the radiator and mentioned that the top of the radiator had cracked. He
also showed me that there is no white smoke from the exhaust and also
opened the oil cap (he mentioned he was looking for milky white
formation inside the oil cap to see signs of water inside the engine)
and mentioned the engine has not been affected. The whole radiator was
replaced and the coolant filled up. When driving back (again 10 miles),
the dashboard temperature went very high. I called up the mechanic. He
asked me to look at the level of the coolant and it was full (as
mentioned above). He asked me to drive back to the garage with the
heater fully on. At the garage, he found and showed me that the fan for
the radiator was not spinning and the dashboard was still showing high
temperature. He shorted the temperature sensor and the fan spun. So he
replaced the temperature sensor. I have been driving with no problem
till two days back.

Last week as part of my car maintenance I had the Air Filter replaced,
Transmission fluid flushed and filled up, Fuel System cleaned, put in
new oil and replace the oil filter.

And now this....

Matthew

 

<matthew_jamees@hotmail.com> wrote
> Thanks for all your reply. It really helped a lot and will watch for
> the coolant and take coolant with me till this issue is fixed.
>
> I looked at the coolant level and it has decreased around 2 inches
> since the past 15 days. When I noticed the level 15 days back the
> engine was very very hot (see below). After I saw Elle's post, I looked
> at the coolant level (the engine was not driven since 11 hours) and
> noticed the decrease in coolant. Will the coolant level will increase
> when the engine is very very hot?

The coolant level definitely rises in proportion to the engine temperature.
If one checks a properly functioning Honda with the engine stone cold (after
10 hours of sitting, engine off, say), the level in the reservoir will be X.
Drive the car until the temperature gage reads normal (like for 20 minutes,
assuming the outside temperature is not super low), and the rise in the
level should be noticeable. Two inches above X is not all that unusual.

> If yes, the decrease of 2 inches
> noticed might not be a correct observation.

I agree.

As your next step, I recommend doing a purge and fill of the cooling system
to the precise, proper level. See the www.autozone.com free online manaul
for the exact steps. Since you have had problems with the fan, make sure it
comes on. Again, it will take at least 30 minutes for the car (sitting and
idling, while you read a magazine) to warm up enough to start the fan twice.
If it doesn't come on after 60 minutes, I'd be worried about the fan switch
yada.

Follow the manual's instructions on checking the level. It should say to
check the level after the car has been fully warmed up, engine off. It
should read at the "Max" line. Of course you can also check it when it's
cool and compare to other readings you do on other days when it's cool. If
there's a serious leak, it will be obvious very quickly.

During all these radiator and overheat problems, your car may have
overheated and caused a breach between engine cylinders and cooling system.
E.g. a failed head gasket or some other breach, like the other posters said.

I can't quite tell when the oil change was done relative to the mechanic
taking a look a the oil's condition. If you just did an oil change, then
coolant in the oil may not be obvious.

Also, you can check the coolant in the reservoir and look for signs of oil
in it.

So far, I still suspect a seriously damaged engine that will limp along but
get progressively worse (and possibly increasingly more expensive to
repair?). Nothing else occurs to me to explain the white smoke. Sounds like
you're being careful, anyway. Let the group know how it goes. It will help
others.

> To give a little history:
> 16 days back, while driving with the heater on at level "1", I felt
> unusually warm after driving for 8 or 9 miles and noticed the dashboard
> temperature going high. I immediately stopped the car and had it towed.
> The mechanic showed me coolant on the entire width of the top and over
> the radiator and mentioned that the top of the radiator had cracked. He
> also showed me that there is no white smoke from the exhaust and also
> opened the oil cap (he mentioned he was looking for milky white
> formation inside the oil cap to see signs of water inside the engine)
> and mentioned the engine has not been affected. The whole radiator was
> replaced and the coolant filled up. When driving back (again 10 miles),
> the dashboard temperature went very high. I called up the mechanic. He
> asked me to look at the level of the coolant and it was full (as
> mentioned above). He asked me to drive back to the garage with the
> heater fully on. At the garage, he found and showed me that the fan for
> the radiator was not spinning and the dashboard was still showing high
> temperature. He shorted the temperature sensor and the fan spun. So he
> replaced the temperature sensor. I have been driving with no problem
> till two days back.
>
> Last week as part of my car maintenance I had the Air Filter replaced,
> Transmission fluid flushed and filled up, Fuel System cleaned, put in
> new oil and replace the oil filter.

 

Elle, Thanks for the reply and appreciate your response for the
following:

1.If the new radiator was not put back correctly by the mechanic, can
the coolant leak into the oil system?

2.If the coolant leaked into the oil system, can I expect to find a
milky white oil when I check the inside of the oil cap?
I will also check the coolant level and oil in the coolant system as
you have mentioned.

3.From all the helpful reply, I strongly suspect the coolant has
leaked. The reason for my suspicion is - When I start the engine when
it is dead cold, there is no smoke but there is small shudder when I
start the car. There is no smoke all the way to college which is 10
miles (it takes 20 minutes drive this 10 miles). When I start the
engine 15 minutes after the engine is hot of driving 10 miles, I see
white smoke and the car shudders a lot. When I reach the college and
instead of starting after 15 minutes but start after 11 hours (the
engine is dead cold), there is no smoke. So I see smoke only when the
engine is hot and you had mentioned that it take high temperature for
coolant to convert to steam. Is my deduction some what correct that
coolant has leaked into the oil system?

 

<matthew_jamees@hotmail.com> wrote
> Elle, Thanks for the reply and appreciate your response for the
> following:

Good questions, all.

> 1.If the new radiator was not put back correctly by the mechanic, can
> the coolant leak into the oil system?

I too was trying to think of how that coolant could get into the cylinders,
and then out the exhaust. I just can't see how replacing the radiator could
easily get coolant into the oil system (and then into the cylinders, and
then out the exhaust as steam). The two systems are piped completely
separately. There's a link at the end of this post that backs this up.

Something far-fetched, though: Your mechanic had the oil fill cap off (or
maybe the valve cover?) when replacing the radiator? There is no reason
these should be off during a radiator replacement, though. I still think
you're looking at a head gasket problem or cracked cylinder head.

> 2.If the coolant leaked into the oil system, can I expect to find a
> milky white oil when I check the inside of the oil cap?

From my reading oil contaminated with coolant is not necessarily obvious by
just looking inside where the oil fill cap fits.

Others will have to comment here.

> I will also check the coolant level and oil in the coolant system as
> you have mentioned.
>
> 3.From all the helpful reply, I strongly suspect the coolant has
> leaked. The reason for my suspicion is - When I start the engine when
> it is dead cold, there is no smoke but there is small shudder when I
> start the car.

That shudder it seems to me results from poor ignition of a fuel, air, and
now coolant mixture. Coolant doesn't ignite.

> There is no smoke all the way to college which is 10
> miles (it takes 20 minutes drive this 10 miles). When I start the
> engine 15 minutes after the engine is hot of driving 10 miles, I see
> white smoke and the car shudders a lot.

I hear you. Maybe any crack there is, or breach of the gasket, doesn't get
serious until metal parts expand and make the crack or breach wider.

> When I reach the college and
> instead of starting after 15 minutes but start after 11 hours (the
> engine is dead cold), there is no smoke. So I see smoke only when the
> engine is hot and you had mentioned that it take high temperature for
> coolant to convert to steam. Is my deduction some what correct that
> coolant has leaked into the oil system?

The only way I can see coolant and oil mixing is via the engine cylinders:
Oil lubricates the cylinder sides, but coolant is getting into the cylinders
via a breach of some kind. Some of the coolant mixes with the oil and goes
to the crankcase, etc.

Keep monitoring the coolant reservoir level. Constantly check the
temperature gage.

http://www.2carpros.com/topics/whitesmk.htm has some interesting commentary
on intermittent white smoke, etc. It suggests that the car's overheating
shrunk the head gasket.

By the way, if it were my car, I would be investigating further the sealer
Elliot suggested. I haven't used such a sealer, but it might work.

 

Hello,

I am sorry I missed the reference to Bars Leak you had
mentioned as I thought it was some sort of term when I first read it.
It became clear when I read Elle's reference to your posting. Also I
went and googled Bars Leak. An interesting product. There are several
products from Bars to stop the leak like Radiator Stop Leak, Block Seal
Liquid Copper Sealer, etc. Can you please tell me which one will be
effective in my case. I understand that it might or might not fix the
issue but I am willing to give it a try incase the mechanic diagnose
the car and estimates a big bill.

Matthew

 

On 5 Feb 2006 15:46:46 -0800, matthew_jamees@hotmail.com wrote:

>Hello,
>
> I am sorry I missed the reference to Bars Leak you had
>mentioned as I thought it was some sort of term when I first read it.
>It became clear when I read Elle's reference to your posting. Also I
>went and googled Bars Leak. An interesting product. There are several
>products from Bars to stop the leak like Radiator Stop Leak, Block Seal
>Liquid Copper Sealer, etc. Can you please tell me which one will be
>effective in my case. I understand that it might or might not fix the
>issue but I am willing to give it a try incase the mechanic diagnose
>the car and estimates a big bill.
>
>Matthew

Bar's Leaks Original Stop Leak is the only one with which I have any
experience. I have seen it work in many extraordinary situations and
as far as I know, it will not harm your engine. However, even under
the best circumstances I would only consider it a temporary repair.

When you open the bottle, you will see the contents are a black liquid
with many lumps of stuff. That's how it is supposed to look. Make sure
there is room in the radiator for it and just dump it in, lumps and
all.

Hope this helps.



Elliot Richmond
Freelance Science Writer and Editor

 

If you have a blown head gasket or a cracked block go to the enclosed
link and read about SteelSeal.
http://www.steelseal.com/eng/home.html
I have used it and it works.

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 20:43:39 GMT, "Elle"
<honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

><matthew_jamees@hotmail.com> wrote
>> Elle, Thanks for the reply and appreciate your response for the
>> following:
>
>Good questions, all.
>
>> 1.If the new radiator was not put back correctly by the mechanic, can
>> the coolant leak into the oil system?
>
>I too was trying to think of how that coolant could get into the cylinders,
>and then out the exhaust. I just can't see how replacing the radiator could
>easily get coolant into the oil system (and then into the cylinders, and
>then out the exhaust as steam). The two systems are piped completely
>separately. There's a link at the end of this post that backs this up.
>
>Something far-fetched, though: Your mechanic had the oil fill cap off (or
>maybe the valve cover?) when replacing the radiator? There is no reason
>these should be off during a radiator replacement, though. I still think
>you're looking at a head gasket problem or cracked cylinder head.
>
>> 2.If the coolant leaked into the oil system, can I expect to find a
>> milky white oil when I check the inside of the oil cap?
>
>From my reading oil contaminated with coolant is not necessarily obvious by
>just looking inside where the oil fill cap fits.
>
>Others will have to comment here.
>
>> I will also check the coolant level and oil in the coolant system as
>> you have mentioned.
>>
>> 3.From all the helpful reply, I strongly suspect the coolant has
>> leaked. The reason for my suspicion is - When I start the engine when
>> it is dead cold, there is no smoke but there is small shudder when I
>> start the car.
>
>That shudder it seems to me results from poor ignition of a fuel, air, and
>now coolant mixture. Coolant doesn't ignite.
>
>> There is no smoke all the way to college which is 10
>> miles (it takes 20 minutes drive this 10 miles). When I start the
>> engine 15 minutes after the engine is hot of driving 10 miles, I see
>> white smoke and the car shudders a lot.
>
>I hear you. Maybe any crack there is, or breach of the gasket, doesn't get
>serious until metal parts expand and make the crack or breach wider.
>
>> When I reach the college and
>> instead of starting after 15 minutes but start after 11 hours (the
>> engine is dead cold), there is no smoke. So I see smoke only when the
>> engine is hot and you had mentioned that it take high temperature for
>> coolant to convert to steam. Is my deduction some what correct that
>> coolant has leaked into the oil system?
>
>The only way I can see coolant and oil mixing is via the engine cylinders:
>Oil lubricates the cylinder sides, but coolant is getting into the cylinders
>via a breach of some kind. Some of the coolant mixes with the oil and goes
>to the crankcase, etc.
>
>Keep monitoring the coolant reservoir level. Constantly check the
>temperature gage.
>
>http://www.2carpros.com/topics/whitesmk.htm has some interesting commentary
>on intermittent white smoke, etc. It suggests that the car's overheating
>shrunk the head gasket.
>
>By the way, if it were my car, I would be investigating further the sealer
>Elliot suggested. I haven't used such a sealer, but it might work.
>