Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

I did post a reply to this a good week and a bit ago, but here goes again.

"Fluffy" <no-spamming-fluffydaddmy3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qdNDb.372000$Dw6.1211191@attbi_s02...
> You'll notice that front wheel drive race cars such as the Peugeot 206 WRC
> and the Ford Focus WRC have a HUGE rear spoiler, yet they're front wheel
> drive car.

All WRC class A cars are 4 wheel drive. have been since the mid-80s. The
wings you see on the focus (and the escort before it) are also standard
items on the production cosworth versions. (those are the fastest production
cars ford makes iirc) Be it the Sierra, Escort, or Focus (European versions,
of course, Americans have to make do with hugely underpowered versions, or
the ugly and slow Mustang)

>
> Do they benefit from it? You better bet they do or else they won't have
it
> on the car.

Rally cars also tend to have the spoilers for slight drag, and
counterbalance purposes. Colin McRae's exit from the 2002 austrailian rally
makes this reason lain. (if you didn't know, he took one of the jumps a bit
too fast (maybe 80-90) spent too much time in the air, and the nose dropped
too far, meaning he smashed the intercoolers.

Rallying is an imprecise art. Cars have had large wings on them for attempts
at beter grip since at least the mid-70s, as I can still remember the large
wing on the back of my fathers class N Ford Maxi. Everything is about grip,
because there is so little available.

>
>
> "Fluffy" <no-spamming-fluffydaddmy3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:j3NDb.568176$Tr4.1537821@attbi_s03...
> > Regardless of what drive train set up, any additional traction given is
> > beneficial, especially in the rear end. Ideally you would want down
force
> > on the entire car but down force on the rear end does give you more rear
> end
> > traction and reducing the possibility of oversteer.
> >
> > Understeer is more forgiving for inexperienced driver. Oversteer on the
> > other hand, normally leads to a complete spinout unless corrected
> > immediately. When I race my Civic at the track, I normally adjust my
rear
> > tire pressure accordingly to help out.
> >
> > "Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:3FDF99F1.E6CB38D0@junkmail.com...
> > > Would down force at the rear end do you any good in a front wheel
drive
> > > car, though?
> > >
> > > Fluffy wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I didn't get enough love from my parents so I went out and bought
the
> > new
> > > > lancer EVO earlier this year. The first week I got it, someone at
the
> > gas
> > > > station asked me... does that thing (referring to the spoiler) do
> > anything?
> > > > I told him that while I'm pumping the gas, "no", but once in motion
it
> > > > produces some down force in the rear end to give me better traction.
> I
> > told
> > > > him that it came that way stock but I don't think he believed me.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure if this is an actual wind tunnel but it looks cool.
> > > > http://www.natalis2002.com/evo/evo8_gsr_2.jpg
> > > > http://www.natalis2002.com/evo/evo8_gsr_3.jpg
> > > >
> > > > If anybody get a chance to take a look at the EVO's adjustable
carbon
> > fiber
> > > > rear spoiler that weights only a few pounds... you'll notice that
it's
> > truly
> > > > an upside down wing and it's extremely smooth to ensure smooth air
> flow
> > for
> > > > down force.
> > > >
> > > > For the most part, it's for cosmetic but you can argue that it's
> > practical
> > > > application. Those who don't think it's practical is just jealous
> that
> > I
> > > > have a bigger spoiler than they do. :)
> > > >
> > > > "N.E.Ohio Bob" <rgstroud@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:3FDF638D.C8D823C6@neo.rr.com...
> > > > > Well, I'm glad you asked that question Bryan.
> > > > > The only use a spoiler can be used for is to identify a driver who
> > > > > wants to be noticed. If you see someone with extra lights, or
bright
> > > > > lights on the front of their car, they also are saying to you
"Look
> At
> > > > > ME !"
> > > > > These drivers didn't get enough love from their parents. dr.
> bob
> > > > >
> > > > > Bryan Canter wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Okay, my stupid question for the day follows. :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While browsing for a wheel hub cap, I see the rear wing spoilers
> > going
> > > > > > for more than 300 bucks on the internet. My question is, why do
I
> > > > > > would want one of those? Just for the looks?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > bc
> >
> >
>
>

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Pete" <escape2music@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:brngn1$6iq$1@news.onet.pl...
>
> "Bryan Canter" <bcnewsgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:614be1fb.0312160902.662f4543@posting.google.c om...
> > Okay, my stupid question for the day follows. :-)
> >
> > While browsing for a wheel hub cap, I see the rear wing spoilers going
> > for more than 300 bucks on the internet. My question is, why do I
> > would want one of those? Just for the looks?
>
> Yep, for the most part it's just for looks. If you frequently drive at
> speeds over 100mph, a properly shaped/designed rear wing spoiler increases
> downforce creating greater stability at those speeds. In normal street
> driving, the speeds are usually too low to generate much downforce, so the
> spoiler just sits there looking pretty (or hideous, depending on design).

I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler *suddenly*
starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A good number of
porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed, I recall reading one
case where a polieman stated in court that he knew the defendant was
speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed, inicated he was over 50mph.

Then, there was also the case of the Audi TT's. You do remember this, don't
you? If not, I'll recap quickly. when it was released, all was well and
good, for about a month. Then the occasional bizare accident would start
cropping up, where the driver would lose control in a moeratly fast curve.
Anyway, a general recall was put on all of the cars. Audi went, and did some
tests, and found that above 40-ish mph, the car became unstable
aerodynamically. a few more tests, and they developed a solution. That
solution was to add a spoiler onto the back. now, I dobut many of you would
recognise it as one, but that strip on the boot/trunk, about 60 inches long,
by HALF an INCH high, is the spoiler. it correctly redeflects air so as to
curb the control problem.

A similar problem was also found by owners of Lamboghini Miura (sp?) but
worse. Every time the car went over 70-80, the shape of the car meant that
enough lift was generated that the wheels would be lifted off. I believe the
fastest speed ever set in a stock miura is somethign like 120mph. Compare
that to its "on paper" max speed of 150ish

Aerodynamics is a tricky thing, almost more of an art, than a science.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Pete
>
>

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Pete" <escape2music@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:brngn1$6iq$1@news.onet.pl...
>
> "Bryan Canter" <bcnewsgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:614be1fb.0312160902.662f4543@posting.google.c om...
> > Okay, my stupid question for the day follows. :-)
> >
> > While browsing for a wheel hub cap, I see the rear wing spoilers going
> > for more than 300 bucks on the internet. My question is, why do I
> > would want one of those? Just for the looks?
>
> Yep, for the most part it's just for looks. If you frequently drive at
> speeds over 100mph, a properly shaped/designed rear wing spoiler increases
> downforce creating greater stability at those speeds. In normal street
> driving, the speeds are usually too low to generate much downforce, so the
> spoiler just sits there looking pretty (or hideous, depending on design).

I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler *suddenly*
starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A good number of
porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed, I recall reading one
case where a polieman stated in court that he knew the defendant was
speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed, inicated he was over 50mph.

Then, there was also the case of the Audi TT's. You do remember this, don't
you? If not, I'll recap quickly. when it was released, all was well and
good, for about a month. Then the occasional bizare accident would start
cropping up, where the driver would lose control in a moeratly fast curve.
Anyway, a general recall was put on all of the cars. Audi went, and did some
tests, and found that above 40-ish mph, the car became unstable
aerodynamically. a few more tests, and they developed a solution. That
solution was to add a spoiler onto the back. now, I dobut many of you would
recognise it as one, but that strip on the boot/trunk, about 60 inches long,
by HALF an INCH high, is the spoiler. it correctly redeflects air so as to
curb the control problem.

A similar problem was also found by owners of Lamboghini Miura (sp?) but
worse. Every time the car went over 70-80, the shape of the car meant that
enough lift was generated that the wheels would be lifted off. I believe the
fastest speed ever set in a stock miura is somethign like 120mph. Compare
that to its "on paper" max speed of 150ish

Aerodynamics is a tricky thing, almost more of an art, than a science.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Pete
>
>

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Pete" <escape2music@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:brngn1$6iq$1@news.onet.pl...
>
> "Bryan Canter" <bcnewsgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:614be1fb.0312160902.662f4543@posting.google.c om...
> > Okay, my stupid question for the day follows. :-)
> >
> > While browsing for a wheel hub cap, I see the rear wing spoilers going
> > for more than 300 bucks on the internet. My question is, why do I
> > would want one of those? Just for the looks?
>
> Yep, for the most part it's just for looks. If you frequently drive at
> speeds over 100mph, a properly shaped/designed rear wing spoiler increases
> downforce creating greater stability at those speeds. In normal street
> driving, the speeds are usually too low to generate much downforce, so the
> spoiler just sits there looking pretty (or hideous, depending on design).

I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler *suddenly*
starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A good number of
porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed, I recall reading one
case where a polieman stated in court that he knew the defendant was
speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed, inicated he was over 50mph.

Then, there was also the case of the Audi TT's. You do remember this, don't
you? If not, I'll recap quickly. when it was released, all was well and
good, for about a month. Then the occasional bizare accident would start
cropping up, where the driver would lose control in a moeratly fast curve.
Anyway, a general recall was put on all of the cars. Audi went, and did some
tests, and found that above 40-ish mph, the car became unstable
aerodynamically. a few more tests, and they developed a solution. That
solution was to add a spoiler onto the back. now, I dobut many of you would
recognise it as one, but that strip on the boot/trunk, about 60 inches long,
by HALF an INCH high, is the spoiler. it correctly redeflects air so as to
curb the control problem.

A similar problem was also found by owners of Lamboghini Miura (sp?) but
worse. Every time the car went over 70-80, the shape of the car meant that
enough lift was generated that the wheels would be lifted off. I believe the
fastest speed ever set in a stock miura is somethign like 120mph. Compare
that to its "on paper" max speed of 150ish

Aerodynamics is a tricky thing, almost more of an art, than a science.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Pete
>
>

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Pete" <escape2music@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:brngn1$6iq$1@news.onet.pl...
>
> "Bryan Canter" <bcnewsgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:614be1fb.0312160902.662f4543@posting.google.c om...
> > Okay, my stupid question for the day follows. :-)
> >
> > While browsing for a wheel hub cap, I see the rear wing spoilers going
> > for more than 300 bucks on the internet. My question is, why do I
> > would want one of those? Just for the looks?
>
> Yep, for the most part it's just for looks. If you frequently drive at
> speeds over 100mph, a properly shaped/designed rear wing spoiler increases
> downforce creating greater stability at those speeds. In normal street
> driving, the speeds are usually too low to generate much downforce, so the
> spoiler just sits there looking pretty (or hideous, depending on design).

I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler *suddenly*
starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A good number of
porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed, I recall reading one
case where a polieman stated in court that he knew the defendant was
speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed, inicated he was over 50mph.

Then, there was also the case of the Audi TT's. You do remember this, don't
you? If not, I'll recap quickly. when it was released, all was well and
good, for about a month. Then the occasional bizare accident would start
cropping up, where the driver would lose control in a moeratly fast curve.
Anyway, a general recall was put on all of the cars. Audi went, and did some
tests, and found that above 40-ish mph, the car became unstable
aerodynamically. a few more tests, and they developed a solution. That
solution was to add a spoiler onto the back. now, I dobut many of you would
recognise it as one, but that strip on the boot/trunk, about 60 inches long,
by HALF an INCH high, is the spoiler. it correctly redeflects air so as to
curb the control problem.

A similar problem was also found by owners of Lamboghini Miura (sp?) but
worse. Every time the car went over 70-80, the shape of the car meant that
enough lift was generated that the wheels would be lifted off. I believe the
fastest speed ever set in a stock miura is somethign like 120mph. Compare
that to its "on paper" max speed of 150ish

Aerodynamics is a tricky thing, almost more of an art, than a science.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Pete
>
>

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in message news:oqjGb.36> >
Yep, for the most part it's just for looks. If you frequently drive at
> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler *suddenly*
> starts to work.

I did not say it *suddenly* starts to work. What I meant was that the
effects of it become noticeable at 100mph+.

> Then, there was also the case of the Audi TT's. You do remember this,
don't
> you? If not, I'll recap quickly. when it was released, all was well and
> good, for about a month. Then the occasional bizare accident would start
> cropping up, where the driver would lose control in a moeratly fast curve.
> Anyway, a general recall was put on all of the cars. Audi went, and did
some
> tests, and found that above 40-ish mph, the car became unstable
> aerodynamically. a few more tests, and they developed a solution. That
> solution was to add a spoiler onto the back.

Well, there you go. If a car needed a spoiler, it would have been installed
at the factory. Most car makers do enough testing to see whether the car is
aerodinamically stable without one. Chances are, that aftermarket spoiler
you buy may cause more damage than good because some of those manufacturers
have mainly looks in mind when designing these accessories.

Happy Holidays!

Cheers,

Pete

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in message news:oqjGb.36> >
Yep, for the most part it's just for looks. If you frequently drive at
> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler *suddenly*
> starts to work.

I did not say it *suddenly* starts to work. What I meant was that the
effects of it become noticeable at 100mph+.

> Then, there was also the case of the Audi TT's. You do remember this,
don't
> you? If not, I'll recap quickly. when it was released, all was well and
> good, for about a month. Then the occasional bizare accident would start
> cropping up, where the driver would lose control in a moeratly fast curve.
> Anyway, a general recall was put on all of the cars. Audi went, and did
some
> tests, and found that above 40-ish mph, the car became unstable
> aerodynamically. a few more tests, and they developed a solution. That
> solution was to add a spoiler onto the back.

Well, there you go. If a car needed a spoiler, it would have been installed
at the factory. Most car makers do enough testing to see whether the car is
aerodinamically stable without one. Chances are, that aftermarket spoiler
you buy may cause more damage than good because some of those manufacturers
have mainly looks in mind when designing these accessories.

Happy Holidays!

Cheers,

Pete

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in message news:oqjGb.36> >
Yep, for the most part it's just for looks. If you frequently drive at
> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler *suddenly*
> starts to work.

I did not say it *suddenly* starts to work. What I meant was that the
effects of it become noticeable at 100mph+.

> Then, there was also the case of the Audi TT's. You do remember this,
don't
> you? If not, I'll recap quickly. when it was released, all was well and
> good, for about a month. Then the occasional bizare accident would start
> cropping up, where the driver would lose control in a moeratly fast curve.
> Anyway, a general recall was put on all of the cars. Audi went, and did
some
> tests, and found that above 40-ish mph, the car became unstable
> aerodynamically. a few more tests, and they developed a solution. That
> solution was to add a spoiler onto the back.

Well, there you go. If a car needed a spoiler, it would have been installed
at the factory. Most car makers do enough testing to see whether the car is
aerodinamically stable without one. Chances are, that aftermarket spoiler
you buy may cause more damage than good because some of those manufacturers
have mainly looks in mind when designing these accessories.

Happy Holidays!

Cheers,

Pete

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in message news:oqjGb.36> >
Yep, for the most part it's just for looks. If you frequently drive at
> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler *suddenly*
> starts to work.

I did not say it *suddenly* starts to work. What I meant was that the
effects of it become noticeable at 100mph+.

> Then, there was also the case of the Audi TT's. You do remember this,
don't
> you? If not, I'll recap quickly. when it was released, all was well and
> good, for about a month. Then the occasional bizare accident would start
> cropping up, where the driver would lose control in a moeratly fast curve.
> Anyway, a general recall was put on all of the cars. Audi went, and did
some
> tests, and found that above 40-ish mph, the car became unstable
> aerodynamically. a few more tests, and they developed a solution. That
> solution was to add a spoiler onto the back.

Well, there you go. If a car needed a spoiler, it would have been installed
at the factory. Most car makers do enough testing to see whether the car is
aerodinamically stable without one. Chances are, that aftermarket spoiler
you buy may cause more damage than good because some of those manufacturers
have mainly looks in mind when designing these accessories.

Happy Holidays!

Cheers,

Pete

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in
news:oqjGb.36$fu6.6@fe01:

>
> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler
> *suddenly* starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A
> good number of porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed,
> I recall reading one case where a polieman stated in court that he
> knew the defendant was speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed,
> inicated he was over 50mph.
>

>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Pete
>>

My porches have plenty of downforce without spoilers. Not even a
hurricane could move my house. ;-)

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in
news:oqjGb.36$fu6.6@fe01:

>
> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler
> *suddenly* starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A
> good number of porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed,
> I recall reading one case where a polieman stated in court that he
> knew the defendant was speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed,
> inicated he was over 50mph.
>

>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Pete
>>

My porches have plenty of downforce without spoilers. Not even a
hurricane could move my house. ;-)

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in
news:oqjGb.36$fu6.6@fe01:

>
> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler
> *suddenly* starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A
> good number of porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed,
> I recall reading one case where a polieman stated in court that he
> knew the defendant was speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed,
> inicated he was over 50mph.
>

>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Pete
>>

My porches have plenty of downforce without spoilers. Not even a
hurricane could move my house. ;-)

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in
news:oqjGb.36$fu6.6@fe01:

>
> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler
> *suddenly* starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A
> good number of porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed,
> I recall reading one case where a polieman stated in court that he
> knew the defendant was speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed,
> inicated he was over 50mph.
>

>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Pete
>>

My porches have plenty of downforce without spoilers. Not even a
hurricane could move my house. ;-)

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

GOOD FOR WIGGERS !
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:09:12 -0600, Paul Cardoza
<paulcardoza@comcast.net> wrote:

>"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in
>news:oqjGb.36$fu6.6@fe01:
>
>>
>> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler
>> *suddenly* starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A
>> good number of porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed,
>> I recall reading one case where a polieman stated in court that he
>> knew the defendant was speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed,
>> inicated he was over 50mph.
>>
>
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>
>My porches have plenty of downforce without spoilers. Not even a
>hurricane could move my house. ;-)

Re: What does a spoiler do?
 

GOOD FOR WIGGERS !
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:09:12 -0600, Paul Cardoza
<paulcardoza@comcast.net> wrote:

>"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in
>news:oqjGb.36$fu6.6@fe01:
>
>>
>> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler
>> *suddenly* starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A
>> good number of porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed,
>> I recall reading one case where a polieman stated in court that he
>> knew the defendant was speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed,
>> inicated he was over 50mph.
>>
>
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>
>My porches have plenty of downforce without spoilers. Not even a
>hurricane could move my house. ;-)