GOOD FOR WIGGERS !
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:09:12 -0600, Paul Cardoza
<paulcardoza@comcast.net> wrote:

>"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in
>newsqjGb.36$fu6.6@fe01:
>
>>
>> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler
>> *suddenly* starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A
>> good number of porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed,
>> I recall reading one case where a polieman stated in court that he
>> knew the defendant was speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed,
>> inicated he was over 50mph.
>>
>
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>
>My porches have plenty of downforce without spoilers. Not even a
>hurricane could move my house. ;-)

 

GOOD FOR WIGGERS !
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 07:09:12 -0600, Paul Cardoza
<paulcardoza@comcast.net> wrote:

>"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in
>newsqjGb.36$fu6.6@fe01:
>
>>
>> I don't know why this myth pervades that at 100mph, a spoiler
>> *suddenly* starts to work. at 50mph the effect is pretty noticable. A
>> good number of porches have had speed sensitive aerodynamics. Indeed,
>> I recall reading one case where a polieman stated in court that he
>> knew the defendant was speeding, as the rear spoiler was deployed,
>> inicated he was over 50mph.
>>
>
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Pete
>>>
>
>My porches have plenty of downforce without spoilers. Not even a
>hurricane could move my house. ;-)

 

I need more grips myself! Tire! Tires! Tires! But the price for tires is
an exponential curve but the frictional gain is incremental. I was
thinking of racing with the Falken Azenis next year but decided to stick
with the Kumho Victoracers.

Anyway... I didn't realize those are all AWD's now.

The examples I brought up was merely to show that FWD vehicles benefit from
rear spoiler since someone had mentioned that many vehicles with rear
spoilers are FWD cars.

Other examples of FWD vehicles that have big rear spoilers are the Realtime
Integra/RSX Type R's, the Mazda Protege, and Sentra SE-R are all winning
vehicles in the SCCA touring car challenge.

As for my EVO - lovely car! With 320 HP at tapped - it's a clutch burning
fun! I have not messed with the upside down airfoil in the rear end but the
angle of attack adjustability is a nice thing if I ever race it someday.

For those who have studied aerodynamic you'll recognize this formula:

L=1/2pV^2SCl

L=lift
p=density
S=surface area
Cl=Coefficient of lift

Noticed that velocity is squared. Yes you'll get expotentially more lift at
100 MPH than 50 MPH but as long as you have airflow going through the
airfoil you will get lift. It has been 8 years since I was last in an
aerodynamic class so please don't quiz me on it. Notice that if you have
more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than the
vehicles, it must work because they sure produce really fast time around the
track.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!



"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in message
newsejGb.35$fu6.25@fe01...
> I did post a reply to this a good week and a bit ago, but here goes again.
>
> "Fluffy" <no-spamming-fluffydaddmy3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:qdNDb.372000$Dw6.1211191@attbi_s02...
> > You'll notice that front wheel drive race cars such as the Peugeot 206
WRC
> > and the Ford Focus WRC have a HUGE rear spoiler, yet they're front wheel
> > drive car.
>
> All WRC class A cars are 4 wheel drive. have been since the mid-80s. The
> wings you see on the focus (and the escort before it) are also standard
> items on the production cosworth versions. (those are the fastest
production
> cars ford makes iirc) Be it the Sierra, Escort, or Focus (European
versions,
> of course, Americans have to make do with hugely underpowered versions, or
> the ugly and slow Mustang)
>
> >
> > Do they benefit from it? You better bet they do or else they won't have
> it
> > on the car.
>
> Rally cars also tend to have the spoilers for slight drag, and
> counterbalance purposes. Colin McRae's exit from the 2002 austrailian
rally
> makes this reason lain. (if you didn't know, he took one of the jumps a
bit
> too fast (maybe 80-90) spent too much time in the air, and the nose
dropped
> too far, meaning he smashed the intercoolers.
>
> Rallying is an imprecise art. Cars have had large wings on them for
attempts
> at beter grip since at least the mid-70s, as I can still remember the
large
> wing on the back of my fathers class N Ford Maxi. Everything is about
grip,
> because there is so little available.
>
> >
> >
> > "Fluffy" <no-spamming-fluffydaddmy3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:j3NDb.568176$Tr4.1537821@attbi_s03...
> > > Regardless of what drive train set up, any additional traction given
is
> > > beneficial, especially in the rear end. Ideally you would want down
> force
> > > on the entire car but down force on the rear end does give you more
rear
> > end
> > > traction and reducing the possibility of oversteer.
> > >
> > > Understeer is more forgiving for inexperienced driver. Oversteer on
the
> > > other hand, normally leads to a complete spinout unless corrected
> > > immediately. When I race my Civic at the track, I normally adjust my
> rear
> > > tire pressure accordingly to help out.
> > >
> > > "Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3FDF99F1.E6CB38D0@junkmail.com...
> > > > Would down force at the rear end do you any good in a front wheel
> drive
> > > > car, though?
> > > >
> > > > Fluffy wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn't get enough love from my parents so I went out and bought
> the
> > > new
> > > > > lancer EVO earlier this year. The first week I got it, someone at
> the
> > > gas
> > > > > station asked me... does that thing (referring to the spoiler) do
> > > anything?
> > > > > I told him that while I'm pumping the gas, "no", but once in
motion
> it
> > > > > produces some down force in the rear end to give me better
traction.
> > I
> > > told
> > > > > him that it came that way stock but I don't think he believed me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure if this is an actual wind tunnel but it looks cool.
> > > > > http://www.natalis2002.com/evo/evo8_gsr_2.jpg
> > > > > http://www.natalis2002.com/evo/evo8_gsr_3.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > If anybody get a chance to take a look at the EVO's adjustable
> carbon
> > > fiber
> > > > > rear spoiler that weights only a few pounds... you'll notice that
> it's
> > > truly
> > > > > an upside down wing and it's extremely smooth to ensure smooth air
> > flow
> > > for
> > > > > down force.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the most part, it's for cosmetic but you can argue that it's
> > > practical
> > > > > application. Those who don't think it's practical is just jealous
> > that
> > > I
> > > > > have a bigger spoiler than they do.
> > > > >
> > > > > "N.E.Ohio Bob" <rgstroud@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3FDF638D.C8D823C6@neo.rr.com...
> > > > > > Well, I'm glad you asked that question Bryan.
> > > > > > The only use a spoiler can be used for is to identify a driver
who
> > > > > > wants to be noticed. If you see someone with extra lights, or
> bright
> > > > > > lights on the front of their car, they also are saying to you
> "Look
> > At
> > > > > > ME !"
> > > > > > These drivers didn't get enough love from their parents.
dr.
> > bob
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bryan Canter wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Okay, my stupid question for the day follows. :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While browsing for a wheel hub cap, I see the rear wing
spoilers
> > > going
> > > > > > > for more than 300 bucks on the internet. My question is, why
do
> I
> > > > > > > would want one of those? Just for the looks?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > bc
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

 

I need more grips myself! Tire! Tires! Tires! But the price for tires is
an exponential curve but the frictional gain is incremental. I was
thinking of racing with the Falken Azenis next year but decided to stick
with the Kumho Victoracers.

Anyway... I didn't realize those are all AWD's now.

The examples I brought up was merely to show that FWD vehicles benefit from
rear spoiler since someone had mentioned that many vehicles with rear
spoilers are FWD cars.

Other examples of FWD vehicles that have big rear spoilers are the Realtime
Integra/RSX Type R's, the Mazda Protege, and Sentra SE-R are all winning
vehicles in the SCCA touring car challenge.

As for my EVO - lovely car! With 320 HP at tapped - it's a clutch burning
fun! I have not messed with the upside down airfoil in the rear end but the
angle of attack adjustability is a nice thing if I ever race it someday.

For those who have studied aerodynamic you'll recognize this formula:

L=1/2pV^2SCl

L=lift
p=density
S=surface area
Cl=Coefficient of lift

Noticed that velocity is squared. Yes you'll get expotentially more lift at
100 MPH than 50 MPH but as long as you have airflow going through the
airfoil you will get lift. It has been 8 years since I was last in an
aerodynamic class so please don't quiz me on it. Notice that if you have
more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than the
vehicles, it must work because they sure produce really fast time around the
track.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!



"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in message
newsejGb.35$fu6.25@fe01...
> I did post a reply to this a good week and a bit ago, but here goes again.
>
> "Fluffy" <no-spamming-fluffydaddmy3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:qdNDb.372000$Dw6.1211191@attbi_s02...
> > You'll notice that front wheel drive race cars such as the Peugeot 206
WRC
> > and the Ford Focus WRC have a HUGE rear spoiler, yet they're front wheel
> > drive car.
>
> All WRC class A cars are 4 wheel drive. have been since the mid-80s. The
> wings you see on the focus (and the escort before it) are also standard
> items on the production cosworth versions. (those are the fastest
production
> cars ford makes iirc) Be it the Sierra, Escort, or Focus (European
versions,
> of course, Americans have to make do with hugely underpowered versions, or
> the ugly and slow Mustang)
>
> >
> > Do they benefit from it? You better bet they do or else they won't have
> it
> > on the car.
>
> Rally cars also tend to have the spoilers for slight drag, and
> counterbalance purposes. Colin McRae's exit from the 2002 austrailian
rally
> makes this reason lain. (if you didn't know, he took one of the jumps a
bit
> too fast (maybe 80-90) spent too much time in the air, and the nose
dropped
> too far, meaning he smashed the intercoolers.
>
> Rallying is an imprecise art. Cars have had large wings on them for
attempts
> at beter grip since at least the mid-70s, as I can still remember the
large
> wing on the back of my fathers class N Ford Maxi. Everything is about
grip,
> because there is so little available.
>
> >
> >
> > "Fluffy" <no-spamming-fluffydaddmy3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:j3NDb.568176$Tr4.1537821@attbi_s03...
> > > Regardless of what drive train set up, any additional traction given
is
> > > beneficial, especially in the rear end. Ideally you would want down
> force
> > > on the entire car but down force on the rear end does give you more
rear
> > end
> > > traction and reducing the possibility of oversteer.
> > >
> > > Understeer is more forgiving for inexperienced driver. Oversteer on
the
> > > other hand, normally leads to a complete spinout unless corrected
> > > immediately. When I race my Civic at the track, I normally adjust my
> rear
> > > tire pressure accordingly to help out.
> > >
> > > "Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3FDF99F1.E6CB38D0@junkmail.com...
> > > > Would down force at the rear end do you any good in a front wheel
> drive
> > > > car, though?
> > > >
> > > > Fluffy wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn't get enough love from my parents so I went out and bought
> the
> > > new
> > > > > lancer EVO earlier this year. The first week I got it, someone at
> the
> > > gas
> > > > > station asked me... does that thing (referring to the spoiler) do
> > > anything?
> > > > > I told him that while I'm pumping the gas, "no", but once in
motion
> it
> > > > > produces some down force in the rear end to give me better
traction.
> > I
> > > told
> > > > > him that it came that way stock but I don't think he believed me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure if this is an actual wind tunnel but it looks cool.
> > > > > http://www.natalis2002.com/evo/evo8_gsr_2.jpg
> > > > > http://www.natalis2002.com/evo/evo8_gsr_3.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > If anybody get a chance to take a look at the EVO's adjustable
> carbon
> > > fiber
> > > > > rear spoiler that weights only a few pounds... you'll notice that
> it's
> > > truly
> > > > > an upside down wing and it's extremely smooth to ensure smooth air
> > flow
> > > for
> > > > > down force.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the most part, it's for cosmetic but you can argue that it's
> > > practical
> > > > > application. Those who don't think it's practical is just jealous
> > that
> > > I
> > > > > have a bigger spoiler than they do.
> > > > >
> > > > > "N.E.Ohio Bob" <rgstroud@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3FDF638D.C8D823C6@neo.rr.com...
> > > > > > Well, I'm glad you asked that question Bryan.
> > > > > > The only use a spoiler can be used for is to identify a driver
who
> > > > > > wants to be noticed. If you see someone with extra lights, or
> bright
> > > > > > lights on the front of their car, they also are saying to you
> "Look
> > At
> > > > > > ME !"
> > > > > > These drivers didn't get enough love from their parents.
dr.
> > bob
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bryan Canter wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Okay, my stupid question for the day follows. :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While browsing for a wheel hub cap, I see the rear wing
spoilers
> > > going
> > > > > > > for more than 300 bucks on the internet. My question is, why
do
> I
> > > > > > > would want one of those? Just for the looks?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > bc
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

 

I need more grips myself! Tire! Tires! Tires! But the price for tires is
an exponential curve but the frictional gain is incremental. I was
thinking of racing with the Falken Azenis next year but decided to stick
with the Kumho Victoracers.

Anyway... I didn't realize those are all AWD's now.

The examples I brought up was merely to show that FWD vehicles benefit from
rear spoiler since someone had mentioned that many vehicles with rear
spoilers are FWD cars.

Other examples of FWD vehicles that have big rear spoilers are the Realtime
Integra/RSX Type R's, the Mazda Protege, and Sentra SE-R are all winning
vehicles in the SCCA touring car challenge.

As for my EVO - lovely car! With 320 HP at tapped - it's a clutch burning
fun! I have not messed with the upside down airfoil in the rear end but the
angle of attack adjustability is a nice thing if I ever race it someday.

For those who have studied aerodynamic you'll recognize this formula:

L=1/2pV^2SCl

L=lift
p=density
S=surface area
Cl=Coefficient of lift

Noticed that velocity is squared. Yes you'll get expotentially more lift at
100 MPH than 50 MPH but as long as you have airflow going through the
airfoil you will get lift. It has been 8 years since I was last in an
aerodynamic class so please don't quiz me on it. Notice that if you have
more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than the
vehicles, it must work because they sure produce really fast time around the
track.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!



"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in message
newsejGb.35$fu6.25@fe01...
> I did post a reply to this a good week and a bit ago, but here goes again.
>
> "Fluffy" <no-spamming-fluffydaddmy3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:qdNDb.372000$Dw6.1211191@attbi_s02...
> > You'll notice that front wheel drive race cars such as the Peugeot 206
WRC
> > and the Ford Focus WRC have a HUGE rear spoiler, yet they're front wheel
> > drive car.
>
> All WRC class A cars are 4 wheel drive. have been since the mid-80s. The
> wings you see on the focus (and the escort before it) are also standard
> items on the production cosworth versions. (those are the fastest
production
> cars ford makes iirc) Be it the Sierra, Escort, or Focus (European
versions,
> of course, Americans have to make do with hugely underpowered versions, or
> the ugly and slow Mustang)
>
> >
> > Do they benefit from it? You better bet they do or else they won't have
> it
> > on the car.
>
> Rally cars also tend to have the spoilers for slight drag, and
> counterbalance purposes. Colin McRae's exit from the 2002 austrailian
rally
> makes this reason lain. (if you didn't know, he took one of the jumps a
bit
> too fast (maybe 80-90) spent too much time in the air, and the nose
dropped
> too far, meaning he smashed the intercoolers.
>
> Rallying is an imprecise art. Cars have had large wings on them for
attempts
> at beter grip since at least the mid-70s, as I can still remember the
large
> wing on the back of my fathers class N Ford Maxi. Everything is about
grip,
> because there is so little available.
>
> >
> >
> > "Fluffy" <no-spamming-fluffydaddmy3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:j3NDb.568176$Tr4.1537821@attbi_s03...
> > > Regardless of what drive train set up, any additional traction given
is
> > > beneficial, especially in the rear end. Ideally you would want down
> force
> > > on the entire car but down force on the rear end does give you more
rear
> > end
> > > traction and reducing the possibility of oversteer.
> > >
> > > Understeer is more forgiving for inexperienced driver. Oversteer on
the
> > > other hand, normally leads to a complete spinout unless corrected
> > > immediately. When I race my Civic at the track, I normally adjust my
> rear
> > > tire pressure accordingly to help out.
> > >
> > > "Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3FDF99F1.E6CB38D0@junkmail.com...
> > > > Would down force at the rear end do you any good in a front wheel
> drive
> > > > car, though?
> > > >
> > > > Fluffy wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn't get enough love from my parents so I went out and bought
> the
> > > new
> > > > > lancer EVO earlier this year. The first week I got it, someone at
> the
> > > gas
> > > > > station asked me... does that thing (referring to the spoiler) do
> > > anything?
> > > > > I told him that while I'm pumping the gas, "no", but once in
motion
> it
> > > > > produces some down force in the rear end to give me better
traction.
> > I
> > > told
> > > > > him that it came that way stock but I don't think he believed me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure if this is an actual wind tunnel but it looks cool.
> > > > > http://www.natalis2002.com/evo/evo8_gsr_2.jpg
> > > > > http://www.natalis2002.com/evo/evo8_gsr_3.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > If anybody get a chance to take a look at the EVO's adjustable
> carbon
> > > fiber
> > > > > rear spoiler that weights only a few pounds... you'll notice that
> it's
> > > truly
> > > > > an upside down wing and it's extremely smooth to ensure smooth air
> > flow
> > > for
> > > > > down force.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the most part, it's for cosmetic but you can argue that it's
> > > practical
> > > > > application. Those who don't think it's practical is just jealous
> > that
> > > I
> > > > > have a bigger spoiler than they do.
> > > > >
> > > > > "N.E.Ohio Bob" <rgstroud@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3FDF638D.C8D823C6@neo.rr.com...
> > > > > > Well, I'm glad you asked that question Bryan.
> > > > > > The only use a spoiler can be used for is to identify a driver
who
> > > > > > wants to be noticed. If you see someone with extra lights, or
> bright
> > > > > > lights on the front of their car, they also are saying to you
> "Look
> > At
> > > > > > ME !"
> > > > > > These drivers didn't get enough love from their parents.
dr.
> > bob
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bryan Canter wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Okay, my stupid question for the day follows. :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While browsing for a wheel hub cap, I see the rear wing
spoilers
> > > going
> > > > > > > for more than 300 bucks on the internet. My question is, why
do
> I
> > > > > > > would want one of those? Just for the looks?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > bc
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

 

I need more grips myself! Tire! Tires! Tires! But the price for tires is
an exponential curve but the frictional gain is incremental. I was
thinking of racing with the Falken Azenis next year but decided to stick
with the Kumho Victoracers.

Anyway... I didn't realize those are all AWD's now.

The examples I brought up was merely to show that FWD vehicles benefit from
rear spoiler since someone had mentioned that many vehicles with rear
spoilers are FWD cars.

Other examples of FWD vehicles that have big rear spoilers are the Realtime
Integra/RSX Type R's, the Mazda Protege, and Sentra SE-R are all winning
vehicles in the SCCA touring car challenge.

As for my EVO - lovely car! With 320 HP at tapped - it's a clutch burning
fun! I have not messed with the upside down airfoil in the rear end but the
angle of attack adjustability is a nice thing if I ever race it someday.

For those who have studied aerodynamic you'll recognize this formula:

L=1/2pV^2SCl

L=lift
p=density
S=surface area
Cl=Coefficient of lift

Noticed that velocity is squared. Yes you'll get expotentially more lift at
100 MPH than 50 MPH but as long as you have airflow going through the
airfoil you will get lift. It has been 8 years since I was last in an
aerodynamic class so please don't quiz me on it. Notice that if you have
more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than the
vehicles, it must work because they sure produce really fast time around the
track.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!



"Misti Norton" <mdawn@flobble-lobble.net> wrote in message
newsejGb.35$fu6.25@fe01...
> I did post a reply to this a good week and a bit ago, but here goes again.
>
> "Fluffy" <no-spamming-fluffydaddmy3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:qdNDb.372000$Dw6.1211191@attbi_s02...
> > You'll notice that front wheel drive race cars such as the Peugeot 206
WRC
> > and the Ford Focus WRC have a HUGE rear spoiler, yet they're front wheel
> > drive car.
>
> All WRC class A cars are 4 wheel drive. have been since the mid-80s. The
> wings you see on the focus (and the escort before it) are also standard
> items on the production cosworth versions. (those are the fastest
production
> cars ford makes iirc) Be it the Sierra, Escort, or Focus (European
versions,
> of course, Americans have to make do with hugely underpowered versions, or
> the ugly and slow Mustang)
>
> >
> > Do they benefit from it? You better bet they do or else they won't have
> it
> > on the car.
>
> Rally cars also tend to have the spoilers for slight drag, and
> counterbalance purposes. Colin McRae's exit from the 2002 austrailian
rally
> makes this reason lain. (if you didn't know, he took one of the jumps a
bit
> too fast (maybe 80-90) spent too much time in the air, and the nose
dropped
> too far, meaning he smashed the intercoolers.
>
> Rallying is an imprecise art. Cars have had large wings on them for
attempts
> at beter grip since at least the mid-70s, as I can still remember the
large
> wing on the back of my fathers class N Ford Maxi. Everything is about
grip,
> because there is so little available.
>
> >
> >
> > "Fluffy" <no-spamming-fluffydaddmy3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:j3NDb.568176$Tr4.1537821@attbi_s03...
> > > Regardless of what drive train set up, any additional traction given
is
> > > beneficial, especially in the rear end. Ideally you would want down
> force
> > > on the entire car but down force on the rear end does give you more
rear
> > end
> > > traction and reducing the possibility of oversteer.
> > >
> > > Understeer is more forgiving for inexperienced driver. Oversteer on
the
> > > other hand, normally leads to a complete spinout unless corrected
> > > immediately. When I race my Civic at the track, I normally adjust my
> rear
> > > tire pressure accordingly to help out.
> > >
> > > "Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3FDF99F1.E6CB38D0@junkmail.com...
> > > > Would down force at the rear end do you any good in a front wheel
> drive
> > > > car, though?
> > > >
> > > > Fluffy wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn't get enough love from my parents so I went out and bought
> the
> > > new
> > > > > lancer EVO earlier this year. The first week I got it, someone at
> the
> > > gas
> > > > > station asked me... does that thing (referring to the spoiler) do
> > > anything?
> > > > > I told him that while I'm pumping the gas, "no", but once in
motion
> it
> > > > > produces some down force in the rear end to give me better
traction.
> > I
> > > told
> > > > > him that it came that way stock but I don't think he believed me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure if this is an actual wind tunnel but it looks cool.
> > > > > http://www.natalis2002.com/evo/evo8_gsr_2.jpg
> > > > > http://www.natalis2002.com/evo/evo8_gsr_3.jpg
> > > > >
> > > > > If anybody get a chance to take a look at the EVO's adjustable
> carbon
> > > fiber
> > > > > rear spoiler that weights only a few pounds... you'll notice that
> it's
> > > truly
> > > > > an upside down wing and it's extremely smooth to ensure smooth air
> > flow
> > > for
> > > > > down force.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the most part, it's for cosmetic but you can argue that it's
> > > practical
> > > > > application. Those who don't think it's practical is just jealous
> > that
> > > I
> > > > > have a bigger spoiler than they do.
> > > > >
> > > > > "N.E.Ohio Bob" <rgstroud@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:3FDF638D.C8D823C6@neo.rr.com...
> > > > > > Well, I'm glad you asked that question Bryan.
> > > > > > The only use a spoiler can be used for is to identify a driver
who
> > > > > > wants to be noticed. If you see someone with extra lights, or
> bright
> > > > > > lights on the front of their car, they also are saying to you
> "Look
> > At
> > > > > > ME !"
> > > > > > These drivers didn't get enough love from their parents.
dr.
> > bob
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bryan Canter wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Okay, my stupid question for the day follows. :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While browsing for a wheel hub cap, I see the rear wing
spoilers
> > > going
> > > > > > > for more than 300 bucks on the internet. My question is, why
do
> I
> > > > > > > would want one of those? Just for the looks?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TIA
> > > > > > > bc
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>

 

|The examples I brought up was merely to show that FWD vehicles benefit from
|rear spoiler since someone had mentioned that many vehicles with rear
|spoilers are FWD cars.

The reason they benefit is because those spoilers are meant to "spoil" the lift
that the body shape creates at speed. They are more stable at speed with a
spoiler. Thats why Audi had to retrofit all the original TTs with an automatic
spoiler, they were found to be unstable at high speeds. Has nothing to do with
traction in that application.

|more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
|cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than the
|vehicles

They have to be that big because of the speed at which a typical Solo II is
conducted. Even an A-mod on a very open "Nationals" type course will rarely get
over 80 mph, which is about where a typical wing becomes effective.

As an interesting aside, I used to tow a Formula Coninental on an open trailer.
I noted that it sure towed hard for an 1100-lb car on a relatively lightweight
trailer. Then one day I got about 2 miles from the house and decided to stop and
take off the rear wing. What a difference! It was like I had been driving with
the emergency brake on. Made the trip to the track a lot more pleasant after
that. for all the downforce the make, they also produce a lot of drag.
Nothing's free.
Rex in Fort Worth

 

|The examples I brought up was merely to show that FWD vehicles benefit from
|rear spoiler since someone had mentioned that many vehicles with rear
|spoilers are FWD cars.

The reason they benefit is because those spoilers are meant to "spoil" the lift
that the body shape creates at speed. They are more stable at speed with a
spoiler. Thats why Audi had to retrofit all the original TTs with an automatic
spoiler, they were found to be unstable at high speeds. Has nothing to do with
traction in that application.

|more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
|cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than the
|vehicles

They have to be that big because of the speed at which a typical Solo II is
conducted. Even an A-mod on a very open "Nationals" type course will rarely get
over 80 mph, which is about where a typical wing becomes effective.

As an interesting aside, I used to tow a Formula Coninental on an open trailer.
I noted that it sure towed hard for an 1100-lb car on a relatively lightweight
trailer. Then one day I got about 2 miles from the house and decided to stop and
take off the rear wing. What a difference! It was like I had been driving with
the emergency brake on. Made the trip to the track a lot more pleasant after
that. for all the downforce the make, they also produce a lot of drag.
Nothing's free.
Rex in Fort Worth

 

|The examples I brought up was merely to show that FWD vehicles benefit from
|rear spoiler since someone had mentioned that many vehicles with rear
|spoilers are FWD cars.

The reason they benefit is because those spoilers are meant to "spoil" the lift
that the body shape creates at speed. They are more stable at speed with a
spoiler. Thats why Audi had to retrofit all the original TTs with an automatic
spoiler, they were found to be unstable at high speeds. Has nothing to do with
traction in that application.

|more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
|cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than the
|vehicles

They have to be that big because of the speed at which a typical Solo II is
conducted. Even an A-mod on a very open "Nationals" type course will rarely get
over 80 mph, which is about where a typical wing becomes effective.

As an interesting aside, I used to tow a Formula Coninental on an open trailer.
I noted that it sure towed hard for an 1100-lb car on a relatively lightweight
trailer. Then one day I got about 2 miles from the house and decided to stop and
take off the rear wing. What a difference! It was like I had been driving with
the emergency brake on. Made the trip to the track a lot more pleasant after
that. for all the downforce the make, they also produce a lot of drag.
Nothing's free.
Rex in Fort Worth

 

|The examples I brought up was merely to show that FWD vehicles benefit from
|rear spoiler since someone had mentioned that many vehicles with rear
|spoilers are FWD cars.

The reason they benefit is because those spoilers are meant to "spoil" the lift
that the body shape creates at speed. They are more stable at speed with a
spoiler. Thats why Audi had to retrofit all the original TTs with an automatic
spoiler, they were found to be unstable at high speeds. Has nothing to do with
traction in that application.

|more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
|cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than the
|vehicles

They have to be that big because of the speed at which a typical Solo II is
conducted. Even an A-mod on a very open "Nationals" type course will rarely get
over 80 mph, which is about where a typical wing becomes effective.

As an interesting aside, I used to tow a Formula Coninental on an open trailer.
I noted that it sure towed hard for an 1100-lb car on a relatively lightweight
trailer. Then one day I got about 2 miles from the house and decided to stop and
take off the rear wing. What a difference! It was like I had been driving with
the emergency brake on. Made the trip to the track a lot more pleasant after
that. for all the downforce the make, they also produce a lot of drag.
Nothing's free.
Rex in Fort Worth

 

> For those who have studied aerodynamic you'll recognize this formula:
>
> L=1/2pV^2SCl
>
> L=lift
> p=density
> S=surface area
> Cl=Coefficient of lift
>
> Noticed that velocity is squared. Yes you'll get expotentially more lift
at
> 100 MPH than 50 MPH but as long as you have airflow going through the
> airfoil you will get lift. It has been 8 years since I was last in an
> aerodynamic class so please don't quiz me on it. Notice that if you have
> more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
> cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than
the
> vehicles, it must work because they sure produce really fast time around
the
> track.

Ah, but don't forget - the coefficient of drag also increases as a square of
velocity - so the faster you go, the more drag that wing is creating. The
more lift created by that wing, the slower your top speed.

 

> For those who have studied aerodynamic you'll recognize this formula:
>
> L=1/2pV^2SCl
>
> L=lift
> p=density
> S=surface area
> Cl=Coefficient of lift
>
> Noticed that velocity is squared. Yes you'll get expotentially more lift
at
> 100 MPH than 50 MPH but as long as you have airflow going through the
> airfoil you will get lift. It has been 8 years since I was last in an
> aerodynamic class so please don't quiz me on it. Notice that if you have
> more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
> cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than
the
> vehicles, it must work because they sure produce really fast time around
the
> track.

Ah, but don't forget - the coefficient of drag also increases as a square of
velocity - so the faster you go, the more drag that wing is creating. The
more lift created by that wing, the slower your top speed.

 

> For those who have studied aerodynamic you'll recognize this formula:
>
> L=1/2pV^2SCl
>
> L=lift
> p=density
> S=surface area
> Cl=Coefficient of lift
>
> Noticed that velocity is squared. Yes you'll get expotentially more lift
at
> 100 MPH than 50 MPH but as long as you have airflow going through the
> airfoil you will get lift. It has been 8 years since I was last in an
> aerodynamic class so please don't quiz me on it. Notice that if you have
> more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
> cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than
the
> vehicles, it must work because they sure produce really fast time around
the
> track.

Ah, but don't forget - the coefficient of drag also increases as a square of
velocity - so the faster you go, the more drag that wing is creating. The
more lift created by that wing, the slower your top speed.

 

> For those who have studied aerodynamic you'll recognize this formula:
>
> L=1/2pV^2SCl
>
> L=lift
> p=density
> S=surface area
> Cl=Coefficient of lift
>
> Noticed that velocity is squared. Yes you'll get expotentially more lift
at
> 100 MPH than 50 MPH but as long as you have airflow going through the
> airfoil you will get lift. It has been 8 years since I was last in an
> aerodynamic class so please don't quiz me on it. Notice that if you have
> more surface area, you get more lift. This is why you see those AM SCCA
> cars with double or triple decker spoilers that is sometime bigger than
the
> vehicles, it must work because they sure produce really fast time around
the
> track.

Ah, but don't forget - the coefficient of drag also increases as a square of
velocity - so the faster you go, the more drag that wing is creating. The
more lift created by that wing, the slower your top speed.

 

> Ah, but don't forget - the coefficient of drag also increases as a square of
> velocity - so the faster you go, the more drag that wing is creating. The
> more lift created by that wing, the slower your top speed.

Nope. The COEFFICIENT of drag is independent of speed. The actual DRAG
is what increases with the square of velocity.