Timing chains in a Honda??????
01-08-2004 | 08:27 PM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
<jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
>"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
>> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
>> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
>> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
>> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
>> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
>> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
>> belt would not be reliable enough.
>
>Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
>tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
>course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
>service a chain.
>
>> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
>> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
>> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
>
>Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
>"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
>manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
>order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
>It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
>out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
>(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
>that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
>relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
>the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
>pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
>timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
>
I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
nothing to do with the timing belt.
<jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
>"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
>> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
>> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
>> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
>> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
>> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
>> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
>> belt would not be reliable enough.
>
>Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
>tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
>course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
>service a chain.
>
>> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
>> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
>> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
>
>Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
>"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
>manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
>order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
>It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
>out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
>(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
>that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
>relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
>the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
>pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
>timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
>
I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
nothing to do with the timing belt.
01-08-2004 | 08:27 PM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
<jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
>"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
>> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
>> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
>> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
>> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
>> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
>> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
>> belt would not be reliable enough.
>
>Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
>tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
>course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
>service a chain.
>
>> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
>> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
>> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
>
>Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
>"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
>manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
>order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
>It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
>out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
>(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
>that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
>relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
>the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
>pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
>timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
>
I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
nothing to do with the timing belt.
<jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
>"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
>> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
>> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
>> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
>> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
>> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
>> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
>> belt would not be reliable enough.
>
>Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
>tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
>course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
>service a chain.
>
>> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
>> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
>> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
>
>Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
>"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
>manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
>order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
>It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
>out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
>(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
>that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
>relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
>the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
>pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
>timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
>
I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
nothing to do with the timing belt.
01-08-2004 | 08:27 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
<jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
>"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
>> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
>> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
>> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
>> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
>> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
>> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
>> belt would not be reliable enough.
>
>Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
>tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
>course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
>service a chain.
>
>> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
>> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
>> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
>
>Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
>"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
>manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
>order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
>It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
>out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
>(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
>that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
>relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
>the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
>pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
>timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
>
I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
nothing to do with the timing belt.
<jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
>"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
>> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
>> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
>> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
>> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
>> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
>> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
>> belt would not be reliable enough.
>
>Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
>tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
>course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
>service a chain.
>
>> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
>> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
>> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
>
>Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
>"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
>manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
>order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
>It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
>out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
>(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
>that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
>relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
>the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
>pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
>timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
>
I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
nothing to do with the timing belt.
01-08-2004 | 08:27 PM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
<jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
>"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
>> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
>> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
>> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
>> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
>> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
>> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
>> belt would not be reliable enough.
>
>Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
>tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
>course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
>service a chain.
>
>> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
>> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
>> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
>
>Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
>"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
>manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
>order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
>It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
>out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
>(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
>that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
>relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
>the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
>pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
>timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
>
I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
nothing to do with the timing belt.
<jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
>
>"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
>news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
>> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
>> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
>> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
>> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
>> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
>> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
>> belt would not be reliable enough.
>
>Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
>tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
>course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
>service a chain.
>
>> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
>> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
>> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
>
>Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
>"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
>manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
>order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
>It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
>out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
>(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
>that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
>relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
>the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
>pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
>timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
>
I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
nothing to do with the timing belt.
01-08-2004 | 09:38 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
Correct. A serpentine belt is one that snakes (serpent = snake) around
the pulleys on all the different belt driven accessories and is separate
from the timing belt.
"null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
> <jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
> >
> >"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
> >> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
> >> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
> >> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
> >> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
> >> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
> >> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
> >> belt would not be reliable enough.
> >
> >Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
> >tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
> >course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
> >service a chain.
> >
> >> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
> >> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
> >> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
> >
> >Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
> >"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
> >manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
> >order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
> >It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
> >out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
> >(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
> >that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
> >relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
> >the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
> >pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
> >timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
> >
> I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
> understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
> which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
> water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
> nothing to do with the timing belt.
the pulleys on all the different belt driven accessories and is separate
from the timing belt.
"null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
> <jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
> >
> >"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
> >> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
> >> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
> >> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
> >> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
> >> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
> >> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
> >> belt would not be reliable enough.
> >
> >Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
> >tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
> >course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
> >service a chain.
> >
> >> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
> >> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
> >> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
> >
> >Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
> >"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
> >manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
> >order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
> >It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
> >out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
> >(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
> >that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
> >relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
> >the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
> >pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
> >timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
> >
> I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
> understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
> which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
> water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
> nothing to do with the timing belt.
01-08-2004 | 09:38 PM
#55
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
Correct. A serpentine belt is one that snakes (serpent = snake) around
the pulleys on all the different belt driven accessories and is separate
from the timing belt.
"null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
> <jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
> >
> >"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
> >> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
> >> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
> >> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
> >> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
> >> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
> >> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
> >> belt would not be reliable enough.
> >
> >Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
> >tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
> >course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
> >service a chain.
> >
> >> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
> >> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
> >> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
> >
> >Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
> >"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
> >manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
> >order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
> >It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
> >out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
> >(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
> >that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
> >relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
> >the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
> >pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
> >timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
> >
> I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
> understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
> which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
> water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
> nothing to do with the timing belt.
the pulleys on all the different belt driven accessories and is separate
from the timing belt.
"null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
> <jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
> >
> >"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
> >> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
> >> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
> >> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
> >> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
> >> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
> >> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
> >> belt would not be reliable enough.
> >
> >Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
> >tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
> >course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
> >service a chain.
> >
> >> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
> >> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
> >> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
> >
> >Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
> >"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
> >manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
> >order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
> >It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
> >out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
> >(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
> >that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
> >relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
> >the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
> >pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
> >timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
> >
> I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
> understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
> which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
> water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
> nothing to do with the timing belt.
01-08-2004 | 09:38 PM
#56
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
Correct. A serpentine belt is one that snakes (serpent = snake) around
the pulleys on all the different belt driven accessories and is separate
from the timing belt.
"null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
> <jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
> >
> >"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
> >> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
> >> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
> >> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
> >> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
> >> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
> >> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
> >> belt would not be reliable enough.
> >
> >Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
> >tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
> >course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
> >service a chain.
> >
> >> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
> >> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
> >> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
> >
> >Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
> >"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
> >manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
> >order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
> >It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
> >out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
> >(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
> >that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
> >relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
> >the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
> >pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
> >timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
> >
> I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
> understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
> which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
> water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
> nothing to do with the timing belt.
the pulleys on all the different belt driven accessories and is separate
from the timing belt.
"null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
> <jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
> >
> >"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
> >> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
> >> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
> >> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
> >> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
> >> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
> >> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
> >> belt would not be reliable enough.
> >
> >Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
> >tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
> >course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
> >service a chain.
> >
> >> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
> >> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
> >> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
> >
> >Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
> >"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
> >manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
> >order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
> >It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
> >out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
> >(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
> >that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
> >relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
> >the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
> >pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
> >timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
> >
> I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
> understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
> which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
> water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
> nothing to do with the timing belt.
01-08-2004 | 09:38 PM
#57
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
Correct. A serpentine belt is one that snakes (serpent = snake) around
the pulleys on all the different belt driven accessories and is separate
from the timing belt.
"null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
> <jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
> >
> >"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
> >> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
> >> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
> >> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
> >> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
> >> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
> >> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
> >> belt would not be reliable enough.
> >
> >Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
> >tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
> >course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
> >service a chain.
> >
> >> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
> >> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
> >> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
> >
> >Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
> >"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
> >manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
> >order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
> >It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
> >out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
> >(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
> >that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
> >relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
> >the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
> >pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
> >timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
> >
> I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
> understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
> which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
> water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
> nothing to do with the timing belt.
the pulleys on all the different belt driven accessories and is separate
from the timing belt.
"null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 16:11:14 -0500, "Jim Hernandez"
> <jb00@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
> >
> >"Randolph" <trash@junkmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3FF8CA82.DD2753C0@junkmail.com...
> >> This is speculation only on my part, but it seems the change from belt
> >> to chain came with the i-VTEC engines. On VTEC engines different cam
> >> profiles are selected depending on the operating conditions. On i-VTEC
> >> engines there is the added feature that the cam shaft can be advanced
> >> and retarded with respect to the cam shaft sprocket. My guess is that
> >> this shifting adds enough strain on the valve train that Honda felt a
> >> belt would not be reliable enough.
> >
> >Chains are infinitly more reliable than belts. The downside is that they
> >tend to make more noise and are a little more difficult to replace. Of
> >course, you would probably replace a belt 5-10 times before needing to
> >service a chain.
> >
> >> In the past, belts were more quiet than chains and cheaper to
> >> manufacture. Once you have done your first $800 timing belt change you'd
> >> probably wish for chain drive instead :-)
> >
> >Well, there are some really bad ideas out there. One of which is the
> >"serpentine belt." This is a timing belt on crack and in the past, several
> >manufacturers recommended that you remove the engine from the vehicle in
> >order to replace it. I had a Toyota Camry which had a sepentine belt go bad.
> >It was one of the cars where they shop guides suggestested taking the engine
> >out. With the help of multiple universal joints on the socket wrench set
> >(and the dexterity of a trained ferret) and many bloodied knuckles, I got
> >that stuipd thing replaced. In general, timing belts are pretty cheap and
> >relatively cheap to have replaced. Since they usually don't require much in
> >the way of oil bearing seals or extremely careful torquing they have become
> >pretty commonplace for the quickie service shop. Even Jiffy Lube does
> >timing/serpintine belt replacement starting at about $60.
> >
> I think there might be a terminology issue going on here. In my
> understanding, a serpentine belt is an external accessory drive belt
> which wraps around the crank pulley, alternator, A/C, power steering,
> water pump, etc, and finally, a spring loaded tensioner. They have
> nothing to do with the timing belt.
02-18-2004 | 10:41 AM
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
Because they started working with GM.
"Tom Wilson" <tomwilson@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tomwilson-0401041820010001@pm5-broad-97.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <mjKJb.51291$IF6.1101348@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Sean
> Donaher" <nospam@nospam.ca> wrote:
>
> > The new 2.4L 4-banger i-VTEC engines in the new Accords and CRVs use
timing
> > chains.
> >
> > <null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de> wrote in message
> > news:n27cvv8kfl6doghnbapgrgvsgs100n07ne@4ax.com...
> > > I just got back from the San Diego Auto Show and was scrutinizing some
> > > of the engines (Element and Acura RSX) and the hardware looked
> > > indicative of chains: aluminum covers etc. Does anyone know anything
> > > about this???
>
> Which leads to another question
> Why did Honda stop making use of Timing belts--do timing chains work
better?
"Tom Wilson" <tomwilson@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tomwilson-0401041820010001@pm5-broad-97.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <mjKJb.51291$IF6.1101348@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Sean
> Donaher" <nospam@nospam.ca> wrote:
>
> > The new 2.4L 4-banger i-VTEC engines in the new Accords and CRVs use
timing
> > chains.
> >
> > <null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de> wrote in message
> > news:n27cvv8kfl6doghnbapgrgvsgs100n07ne@4ax.com...
> > > I just got back from the San Diego Auto Show and was scrutinizing some
> > > of the engines (Element and Acura RSX) and the hardware looked
> > > indicative of chains: aluminum covers etc. Does anyone know anything
> > > about this???
>
> Which leads to another question
> Why did Honda stop making use of Timing belts--do timing chains work
better?
02-18-2004 | 10:41 AM
#59
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
Because they started working with GM.
"Tom Wilson" <tomwilson@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tomwilson-0401041820010001@pm5-broad-97.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <mjKJb.51291$IF6.1101348@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Sean
> Donaher" <nospam@nospam.ca> wrote:
>
> > The new 2.4L 4-banger i-VTEC engines in the new Accords and CRVs use
timing
> > chains.
> >
> > <null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de> wrote in message
> > news:n27cvv8kfl6doghnbapgrgvsgs100n07ne@4ax.com...
> > > I just got back from the San Diego Auto Show and was scrutinizing some
> > > of the engines (Element and Acura RSX) and the hardware looked
> > > indicative of chains: aluminum covers etc. Does anyone know anything
> > > about this???
>
> Which leads to another question
> Why did Honda stop making use of Timing belts--do timing chains work
better?
"Tom Wilson" <tomwilson@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tomwilson-0401041820010001@pm5-broad-97.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <mjKJb.51291$IF6.1101348@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Sean
> Donaher" <nospam@nospam.ca> wrote:
>
> > The new 2.4L 4-banger i-VTEC engines in the new Accords and CRVs use
timing
> > chains.
> >
> > <null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de> wrote in message
> > news:n27cvv8kfl6doghnbapgrgvsgs100n07ne@4ax.com...
> > > I just got back from the San Diego Auto Show and was scrutinizing some
> > > of the engines (Element and Acura RSX) and the hardware looked
> > > indicative of chains: aluminum covers etc. Does anyone know anything
> > > about this???
>
> Which leads to another question
> Why did Honda stop making use of Timing belts--do timing chains work
better?
02-18-2004 | 10:41 AM
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing chains in a Honda??????
Because they started working with GM.
"Tom Wilson" <tomwilson@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tomwilson-0401041820010001@pm5-broad-97.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <mjKJb.51291$IF6.1101348@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Sean
> Donaher" <nospam@nospam.ca> wrote:
>
> > The new 2.4L 4-banger i-VTEC engines in the new Accords and CRVs use
timing
> > chains.
> >
> > <null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de> wrote in message
> > news:n27cvv8kfl6doghnbapgrgvsgs100n07ne@4ax.com...
> > > I just got back from the San Diego Auto Show and was scrutinizing some
> > > of the engines (Element and Acura RSX) and the hardware looked
> > > indicative of chains: aluminum covers etc. Does anyone know anything
> > > about this???
>
> Which leads to another question
> Why did Honda stop making use of Timing belts--do timing chains work
better?
"Tom Wilson" <tomwilson@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tomwilson-0401041820010001@pm5-broad-97.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> In article <mjKJb.51291$IF6.1101348@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca>, "Sean
> Donaher" <nospam@nospam.ca> wrote:
>
> > The new 2.4L 4-banger i-VTEC engines in the new Accords and CRVs use
timing
> > chains.
> >
> > <null_pointer@nowhere.com.net.edu.gov.de> wrote in message
> > news:n27cvv8kfl6doghnbapgrgvsgs100n07ne@4ax.com...
> > > I just got back from the San Diego Auto Show and was scrutinizing some
> > > of the engines (Element and Acura RSX) and the hardware looked
> > > indicative of chains: aluminum covers etc. Does anyone know anything
> > > about this???
>
> Which leads to another question
> Why did Honda stop making use of Timing belts--do timing chains work
better?