Timing belts
12-06-2008 | 06:17 PM
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Timing belts
I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing belt
breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage?
The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to change it
at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold conditions. I do not have a
manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has 94,000 on it now and runs
perfectly.
breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage?
The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to change it
at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold conditions. I do not have a
manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has 94,000 on it now and runs
perfectly.
12-07-2008 | 09:13 AM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
"Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:OqOdnawJ9P6blabUnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing
>belt breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage?
>
> The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to
> change it at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold
> conditions. I do not have a manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car.
> It has 94,000 on it now and runs perfectly.
>
>
>
I believe the recommended change period is 105K miles or 7 years under
normal conditions. My own interpretation of very hot has always been
desert type conditions (Death Valley, Sahara), very cold would be
similar to the northern Midwest areas and Canada/Alaska for the 60k
change.
The key is not just the belt itself, but the internal cords/fibers
that do not allow the belt to stretch, which are usually made from
Kevlar/Twaron (both are aramid type high tensile fibers). I'm not
sure if the base OEM Honda belts are rubber, HSN or carbon fiber type
(I would suspect that they may be the one of the latter two, as at
some point in the 90's they increased the recommended belt change
interval by a fairly large amount).
Here are a couple of articles you may want to read....especially the
thermal properties of the Kevlar and interference engines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_belt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar
The potential damage from a broken belt is quite extensive, and you
may or may not see any symptoms.
12-07-2008 | 10:25 AM
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 09:13:40 -0500, L Alpert wrote:
> "Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote in message
> news:OqOdnawJ9P6blabUnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing belt
>>breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage?
>>
>> The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to
>> change it at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold conditions.
>> I do not have a manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has 94,000
>> on it now and runs perfectly.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I believe the recommended change period is 105K miles or 7 years under
> normal conditions. My own interpretation of very hot has always been
> desert type conditions (Death Valley, Sahara), very cold would be
> similar to the northern Midwest areas and Canada/Alaska for the 60k
> change.
>
> The key is not just the belt itself, but the internal cords/fibers that
> do not allow the belt to stretch, which are usually made from
> Kevlar/Twaron (both are aramid type high tensile fibers). I'm not sure
> if the base OEM Honda belts are rubber, HSN or carbon fiber type (I
> would suspect that they may be the one of the latter two, as at some
> point in the 90's they increased the recommended belt change interval by
> a fairly large amount).
>
> Here are a couple of articles you may want to read....especially the
> thermal properties of the Kevlar and interference engines.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_belt
irc, kevlar is subject to accelerated fatigue when subject to humidity, so
i believe the cords in high quality timing belts are usually glass fiber.
the above link does allude to glass fiber use, although not in detail.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar
>
> The potential damage from a broken belt is quite extensive,
with an interference engine
> and you may
> or may not see any symptoms.
....prior to breakage.
> "Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote in message
> news:OqOdnawJ9P6blabUnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing belt
>>breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage?
>>
>> The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to
>> change it at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold conditions.
>> I do not have a manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has 94,000
>> on it now and runs perfectly.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I believe the recommended change period is 105K miles or 7 years under
> normal conditions. My own interpretation of very hot has always been
> desert type conditions (Death Valley, Sahara), very cold would be
> similar to the northern Midwest areas and Canada/Alaska for the 60k
> change.
>
> The key is not just the belt itself, but the internal cords/fibers that
> do not allow the belt to stretch, which are usually made from
> Kevlar/Twaron (both are aramid type high tensile fibers). I'm not sure
> if the base OEM Honda belts are rubber, HSN or carbon fiber type (I
> would suspect that they may be the one of the latter two, as at some
> point in the 90's they increased the recommended belt change interval by
> a fairly large amount).
>
> Here are a couple of articles you may want to read....especially the
> thermal properties of the Kevlar and interference engines.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_belt
irc, kevlar is subject to accelerated fatigue when subject to humidity, so
i believe the cords in high quality timing belts are usually glass fiber.
the above link does allude to glass fiber use, although not in detail.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar
>
> The potential damage from a broken belt is quite extensive,
with an interference engine
> and you may
> or may not see any symptoms.
....prior to breakage.
12-07-2008 | 01:11 PM
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:2WR_k.22788$k66.19344@fe03.news.easynews.com. ..
> On Sun, 07 Dec 2008 09:13:40 -0500, L Alpert wrote:
>
>> "Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote in message
>> news:OqOdnawJ9P6blabUnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>>I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing
>>>belt
>>>breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage?
>>>
>>> The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to
>>> change it at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold
>>> conditions.
>>> I do not have a manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has
>>> 94,000
>>> on it now and runs perfectly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I believe the recommended change period is 105K miles or 7 years
>> under
>> normal conditions. My own interpretation of very hot has always
>> been
>> desert type conditions (Death Valley, Sahara), very cold would be
>> similar to the northern Midwest areas and Canada/Alaska for the 60k
>> change.
>>
>> The key is not just the belt itself, but the internal cords/fibers
>> that
>> do not allow the belt to stretch, which are usually made from
>> Kevlar/Twaron (both are aramid type high tensile fibers). I'm not
>> sure
>> if the base OEM Honda belts are rubber, HSN or carbon fiber type (I
>> would suspect that they may be the one of the latter two, as at
>> some
>> point in the 90's they increased the recommended belt change
>> interval by
>> a fairly large amount).
>>
>> Here are a couple of articles you may want to read....especially
>> the
>> thermal properties of the Kevlar and interference engines.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_belt
>
> irc, kevlar is subject to accelerated fatigue when subject to
> humidity, so
> i believe the cords in high quality timing belts are usually glass
> fiber.
> the above link does allude to glass fiber use, although not in
> detail.
"Glass fiber" is a misnomer, as it still uses a polymer carrier (ie,
flass filled kevlar) as far as I last was aware of.
Polymer with 30%-33% glass fiber by weight is usually what you will
find in most industries. The higher percentages the more prone it
will be to fracture at a specific radius due to extremely high flex
modulus.
>
>
>
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevlar
>>
>> The potential damage from a broken belt is quite extensive,
>
> with an interference engine
>
>
>
>> and you may
>> or may not see any symptoms.
>
> ...prior to breakage.
>
12-07-2008 | 02:13 PM
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
Anon wrote:
> I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing belt
> breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage?
http://www.gates.com/part_locator/in...o=Interference
Most belt driven Hondas run interfering valves that will be extremely
unhappy if the piston/valve timing fails.
> The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to change it
> at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold conditions.
> I do not have a
> manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has 94,000 on it now and runs
> perfectly.
Unless you can determine with some certainty that the belt has been
changed, you should start thinking about getting it done. As mentioned,
~100K is the highest likely service interval. As the belt ages, it will
become statistically more likely to break. If it's a 100K belt, you'd
be 'fairly' safe for another 10~20K, (and it's not 100% guaranteed to
break at 150K.) But each passing mile increases the odds (at an
increasing rate!) of a VERY expensive boo-boo.
A belt inspection might be possible with little effort/cost. Find what
belt Honda uses for OEM, and how they are labled. If you find something
different (aftermarket), you'll know that someone changed it, presumably
sometime near the service interval. If you find a Honda belt, there
might (???) be a date code or batch number indicating it's age.
> I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing belt
> breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage?
http://www.gates.com/part_locator/in...o=Interference
Most belt driven Hondas run interfering valves that will be extremely
unhappy if the piston/valve timing fails.
> The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to change it
> at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold conditions.
> I do not have a
> manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car. It has 94,000 on it now and runs
> perfectly.
Unless you can determine with some certainty that the belt has been
changed, you should start thinking about getting it done. As mentioned,
~100K is the highest likely service interval. As the belt ages, it will
become statistically more likely to break. If it's a 100K belt, you'd
be 'fairly' safe for another 10~20K, (and it's not 100% guaranteed to
break at 150K.) But each passing mile increases the odds (at an
increasing rate!) of a VERY expensive boo-boo.
A belt inspection might be possible with little effort/cost. Find what
belt Honda uses for OEM, and how they are labled. If you find something
different (aftermarket), you'll know that someone changed it, presumably
sometime near the service interval. If you find a Honda belt, there
might (???) be a date code or batch number indicating it's age.
12-07-2008 | 02:45 PM
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
"Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:OqOdnawJ9P6blabUnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
>I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl. If the timing
>belt breaks, will it cause extensive engine damage?
>
> The manual on the V6 is unclear when to change the belt it says to
> change it at 60,000 miles if you drive in very hot or cold
> conditions. I do not have a manual for the 4 cyl, it was a used car.
> It has 94,000 on it now and runs perfectly.
>
>
>
You 2002 4 cylinder may not be a belt, it "may" be a timing chain, in
which case, no worries. Look at the thread just below this one about
an 03 4 cylinder, in the 03s, the 6 cylinder is a set of belts, BUT
the 4 cylinder is a timing chain. I'm not sure what year this started
for the 4, but maybe you get lucky on that one.
12-07-2008 | 03:27 PM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
"Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote
>I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl.
Both are timing belts, not chains, as a quick check of
bkhondaparts.com shows. For both of these, in the owner's
manual under "maintenance schedule," it says to change the
belt at 105k miles/7 years, whichever comes first.
So the 2001 is overdue in my book. The 2002 is almost due.
> If the timing belt breaks, will it cause extensive engine
> damage?
These are both interference engines and so there is a high
risk of engine damage if the timing belt fails in any way.
> The manual on the V6 is unclear
It is clear in the "maintenance schedule" section of the
manual.
You can see an owner's manual for any Honda car via site
https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.asp
>I have 2 Honda Accords, a 2001 V6 and a 2002 4 cyl.
Both are timing belts, not chains, as a quick check of
bkhondaparts.com shows. For both of these, in the owner's
manual under "maintenance schedule," it says to change the
belt at 105k miles/7 years, whichever comes first.
So the 2001 is overdue in my book. The 2002 is almost due.
> If the timing belt breaks, will it cause extensive engine
> damage?
These are both interference engines and so there is a high
risk of engine damage if the timing belt fails in any way.
> The manual on the V6 is unclear
It is clear in the "maintenance schedule" section of the
manual.
You can see an owner's manual for any Honda car via site
https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/logon.asp
12-07-2008 | 04:27 PM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
Steve L wrote:
> You 2002 4 cylinder may not be a belt, it "may" be a timing chain, in
> which case, no worries. Look at the thread just below this one about
> an 03 4 cylinder, in the 03s, the 6 cylinder is a set of belts, BUT
> the 4 cylinder is a timing chain. I'm not sure what year this started
> for the 4, but maybe you get lucky on that one.
2003 was the first year that the Accord's 4-banger was chain-driven. So
this 2002 in question has a belt.
> You 2002 4 cylinder may not be a belt, it "may" be a timing chain, in
> which case, no worries. Look at the thread just below this one about
> an 03 4 cylinder, in the 03s, the 6 cylinder is a set of belts, BUT
> the 4 cylinder is a timing chain. I'm not sure what year this started
> for the 4, but maybe you get lucky on that one.
2003 was the first year that the Accord's 4-banger was chain-driven. So
this 2002 in question has a belt.
12-07-2008 | 05:01 PM
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
Thanks to everyone that provided information and links.
It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6. The
car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes me want
to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that cost mega
bucks to change.
It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6. The
car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes me want
to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that cost mega
bucks to change.
12-07-2008 | 05:20 PM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
Anon wrote:
> Thanks to everyone that provided information and links.
>
> It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6. The
> car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes me want
> to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that cost mega
> bucks to change.
>
>
>
Hi,
You have to see that belt change is time consuming and also it is good
time to to the water pump while at it. Belt itself does not cost much.
Some cars have timing chain.
> Thanks to everyone that provided information and links.
>
> It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6. The
> car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes me want
> to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that cost mega
> bucks to change.
>
>
>
Hi,
You have to see that belt change is time consuming and also it is good
time to to the water pump while at it. Belt itself does not cost much.
Some cars have timing chain.
12-07-2008 | 05:35 PM
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
"Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:i_X_k.12467$ED.7167@newsfe22.iad...
> Anon wrote:
>> Thanks to everyone that provided information and links.
>>
>> It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6.
>> The car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes
>> me want to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that
>> cost mega bucks to change.
>>
>>
>>
> Hi,
> You have to see that belt change is time consuming and also it is good
> time to to the water pump while at it. Belt itself does not cost much.
> Some cars have timing chain.
If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as part of the routine
eminence schedule, it should be designed so it is easy to change. I consider
it poor design.
12-07-2008 | 06:07 PM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
"Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote
> If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as
> part of the routine eminence schedule, it should be
> designed so it is easy to change. I consider it poor
> design.
How would you improve on this design?
Have you run the numbers to see whether it pays more to
replace the TB and keep the car vs. buying a new one?
Once every 7 years/105k miles is not routine. The typical
Honda owner probably changes the TB exactly once while
owning the car, after all.
> If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as
> part of the routine eminence schedule, it should be
> designed so it is easy to change. I consider it poor
> design.
How would you improve on this design?
Have you run the numbers to see whether it pays more to
replace the TB and keep the car vs. buying a new one?
Once every 7 years/105k miles is not routine. The typical
Honda owner probably changes the TB exactly once while
owning the car, after all.
12-07-2008 | 06:15 PM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
Anon wrote:
> "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:i_X_k.12467$ED.7167@newsfe22.iad...
>> Anon wrote:
>>> Thanks to everyone that provided information and links.
>>>
>>> It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6.
>>> The car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes
>>> me want to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that
>>> cost mega bucks to change.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Hi,
>> You have to see that belt change is time consuming and also it is good
>> time to to the water pump while at it. Belt itself does not cost much.
>> Some cars have timing chain.
>
> If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as part of the routine
> eminence schedule, it should be designed so it is easy to change. I consider
> it poor design.
>
>
Hmmm,
Designing something involves many factors. It is not as simple as you
might think. What is your definition of poor design? If you don't like
to spend some $$ at 100K miles or so, is it poor design? I think not.
> "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:i_X_k.12467$ED.7167@newsfe22.iad...
>> Anon wrote:
>>> Thanks to everyone that provided information and links.
>>>
>>> It really sucks that I'll have to spend $800-$1000 on my 2001 Honda V6.
>>> The car only has 24000 miles on it but is 7 years old. That almost makes
>>> me want to trade it in for a new car, one that doesn't use a belt that
>>> cost mega bucks to change.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Hi,
>> You have to see that belt change is time consuming and also it is good
>> time to to the water pump while at it. Belt itself does not cost much.
>> Some cars have timing chain.
>
> If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as part of the routine
> eminence schedule, it should be designed so it is easy to change. I consider
> it poor design.
>
>
Hmmm,
Designing something involves many factors. It is not as simple as you
might think. What is your definition of poor design? If you don't like
to spend some $$ at 100K miles or so, is it poor design? I think not.
12-07-2008 | 06:17 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
"Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:yGY_k.3239$uS1.636@newsfe19.iad...
> "Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote
>> If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as part of the
>> routine eminence schedule, it should be designed so it is easy to change.
>> I consider it poor design.
>
> How would you improve on this design?
>
> Have you run the numbers to see whether it pays more to replace the TB and
> keep the car vs. buying a new one?
>
> Once every 7 years/105k miles is not routine. The typical Honda owner
> probably changes the TB exactly once while owning the car, after all.
>
I would say it is more likely that most Honda owners do not keep their car
for 7 years. They unload them before this expensive, necessary belt change
is due.
12-07-2008 | 06:59 PM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Timing belts
"Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote
>> "Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote
>>> If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as
>>> part of the routine eminence schedule, it should be
>>> designed so it is easy to change. I consider it poor
>>> design.
>>
>> How would you improve on this design?
>>
>> Have you run the numbers to see whether it pays more to
>> replace the TB and keep the car vs. buying a new one?
>>
>> Once every 7 years/105k miles is not routine. The typical
>> Honda owner probably changes the TB exactly once while
>> owning the car, after all.
>>
>
> I would say it is more likely that most Honda owners do
> not keep their car for 7 years. They unload them before
> this expensive, necessary belt change is due.
Many people trade in their Hondas (among other car makes)
for a new car when the timing belt is due because they
cannot do simple financial calculations. Keeping a car for
14 years/210k miles and spending $1000 once for a timing
belt in that period is an excellent financial choice
compared to buying a new car every 7 years/105k miles. As
importantly, do you know of a car make that is clearly more
reliable, and so is less costly to maintain, that costs less
to purchase than a Honda?
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote
>> "Anon" <anonnospam@yahoo.net> wrote
>>> If Honda is going to use a part that must be changed as
>>> part of the routine eminence schedule, it should be
>>> designed so it is easy to change. I consider it poor
>>> design.
>>
>> How would you improve on this design?
>>
>> Have you run the numbers to see whether it pays more to
>> replace the TB and keep the car vs. buying a new one?
>>
>> Once every 7 years/105k miles is not routine. The typical
>> Honda owner probably changes the TB exactly once while
>> owning the car, after all.
>>
>
> I would say it is more likely that most Honda owners do
> not keep their car for 7 years. They unload them before
> this expensive, necessary belt change is due.
Many people trade in their Hondas (among other car makes)
for a new car when the timing belt is due because they
cannot do simple financial calculations. Keeping a car for
14 years/210k miles and spending $1000 once for a timing
belt in that period is an excellent financial choice
compared to buying a new car every 7 years/105k miles. As
importantly, do you know of a car make that is clearly more
reliable, and so is less costly to maintain, that costs less
to purchase than a Honda?