Some ruminations on antifreeze
01-15-2004 | 07:49 AM
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
In alt.autos.porsche Cliff Freeling <clifffreeling@yahoo.com> wrote:
: It doesn't take much of a USENET search to see all the
: badmouthing about Peak antifreeze, I guess mainly because
: the brand contains phospate. People say this and that,
: and repeat what others say without much thought.
: I have visited the Peak site and they discuss these issues,
: and what they say makes sense to me at least. People blast
: Peak because of the phosphates, then turn right around and
: recommend distilled water for cooling sytems (which apparently
: pretty much removes any negative effect from the phospates).
: The Peak site claims that some European car makers say to avoid
: such antifreezes simply because Europe generally has much harder
: water than the U.S....makes sense to me.
: Read it for yourself: http://www.peakantifreeze.com/tech/tech_b.html
: Maybe I'm naive, but how could they legally make the claims on this
: page (http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peakanti.html) about their
: standard product if it weren't fact anyway?
: And yes, I changed the coolant in my German car today, and used
: 50/50 Prestone and distilled water, but have used Peak for years in
: my cars with no problems.
Well, if your refering to a watercooled porsche, there is a TSB that lists
approved anti-freezes... in addition to the VW and Mercedes house brands,
one of the Zerex made the list...
Check alldata.com for the TSB.
Is it worth saving $5 bucks to screw up a $5k motor?
--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
: It doesn't take much of a USENET search to see all the
: badmouthing about Peak antifreeze, I guess mainly because
: the brand contains phospate. People say this and that,
: and repeat what others say without much thought.
: I have visited the Peak site and they discuss these issues,
: and what they say makes sense to me at least. People blast
: Peak because of the phosphates, then turn right around and
: recommend distilled water for cooling sytems (which apparently
: pretty much removes any negative effect from the phospates).
: The Peak site claims that some European car makers say to avoid
: such antifreezes simply because Europe generally has much harder
: water than the U.S....makes sense to me.
: Read it for yourself: http://www.peakantifreeze.com/tech/tech_b.html
: Maybe I'm naive, but how could they legally make the claims on this
: page (http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peakanti.html) about their
: standard product if it weren't fact anyway?
: And yes, I changed the coolant in my German car today, and used
: 50/50 Prestone and distilled water, but have used Peak for years in
: my cars with no problems.
Well, if your refering to a watercooled porsche, there is a TSB that lists
approved anti-freezes... in addition to the VW and Mercedes house brands,
one of the Zerex made the list...
Check alldata.com for the TSB.
Is it worth saving $5 bucks to screw up a $5k motor?
--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
01-15-2004 | 12:18 PM
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
markjen wrote:
>>And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
>>that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
>>your fingers crossed too :-)
>
>
> You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
> wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
> antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
> good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
> organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
> in conventional ethylene glycol AF.
>
Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze. There have
been reported problems with it in new-manufacture GM engines that NEVER
HAD any other type antifreeze in them, and other problems reported in
engines very meticulously flushed before conversion. If anyone, out of
"environmental conscience" or for whatever reason, really is hell-bent
on a new-formulation antifreeze I believe the G-05 formula used by
Chrysler and Ford (and others) has a FAR better track record than DexCool.
>>And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
>>that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
>>your fingers crossed too :-)
>
>
> You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
> wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
> antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
> good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
> organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
> in conventional ethylene glycol AF.
>
Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze. There have
been reported problems with it in new-manufacture GM engines that NEVER
HAD any other type antifreeze in them, and other problems reported in
engines very meticulously flushed before conversion. If anyone, out of
"environmental conscience" or for whatever reason, really is hell-bent
on a new-formulation antifreeze I believe the G-05 formula used by
Chrysler and Ford (and others) has a FAR better track record than DexCool.
01-15-2004 | 12:18 PM
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
markjen wrote:
>>And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
>>that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
>>your fingers crossed too :-)
>
>
> You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
> wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
> antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
> good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
> organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
> in conventional ethylene glycol AF.
>
Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze. There have
been reported problems with it in new-manufacture GM engines that NEVER
HAD any other type antifreeze in them, and other problems reported in
engines very meticulously flushed before conversion. If anyone, out of
"environmental conscience" or for whatever reason, really is hell-bent
on a new-formulation antifreeze I believe the G-05 formula used by
Chrysler and Ford (and others) has a FAR better track record than DexCool.
>>And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
>>that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
>>your fingers crossed too :-)
>
>
> You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
> wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
> antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
> good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
> organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
> in conventional ethylene glycol AF.
>
Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze. There have
been reported problems with it in new-manufacture GM engines that NEVER
HAD any other type antifreeze in them, and other problems reported in
engines very meticulously flushed before conversion. If anyone, out of
"environmental conscience" or for whatever reason, really is hell-bent
on a new-formulation antifreeze I believe the G-05 formula used by
Chrysler and Ford (and others) has a FAR better track record than DexCool.
01-15-2004 | 12:18 PM
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
markjen wrote:
>>And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
>>that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
>>your fingers crossed too :-)
>
>
> You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
> wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
> antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
> good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
> organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
> in conventional ethylene glycol AF.
>
Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze. There have
been reported problems with it in new-manufacture GM engines that NEVER
HAD any other type antifreeze in them, and other problems reported in
engines very meticulously flushed before conversion. If anyone, out of
"environmental conscience" or for whatever reason, really is hell-bent
on a new-formulation antifreeze I believe the G-05 formula used by
Chrysler and Ford (and others) has a FAR better track record than DexCool.
>>And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
>>that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
>>your fingers crossed too :-)
>
>
> You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
> wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
> antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
> good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
> organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
> in conventional ethylene glycol AF.
>
Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze. There have
been reported problems with it in new-manufacture GM engines that NEVER
HAD any other type antifreeze in them, and other problems reported in
engines very meticulously flushed before conversion. If anyone, out of
"environmental conscience" or for whatever reason, really is hell-bent
on a new-formulation antifreeze I believe the G-05 formula used by
Chrysler and Ford (and others) has a FAR better track record than DexCool.
01-15-2004 | 12:18 PM
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
markjen wrote:
>>And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
>>that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
>>your fingers crossed too :-)
>
>
> You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
> wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
> antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
> good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
> organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
> in conventional ethylene glycol AF.
>
Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze. There have
been reported problems with it in new-manufacture GM engines that NEVER
HAD any other type antifreeze in them, and other problems reported in
engines very meticulously flushed before conversion. If anyone, out of
"environmental conscience" or for whatever reason, really is hell-bent
on a new-formulation antifreeze I believe the G-05 formula used by
Chrysler and Ford (and others) has a FAR better track record than DexCool.
>>And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
>>that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
>>your fingers crossed too :-)
>
>
> You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
> wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
> antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
> good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
> organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
> in conventional ethylene glycol AF.
>
Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze. There have
been reported problems with it in new-manufacture GM engines that NEVER
HAD any other type antifreeze in them, and other problems reported in
engines very meticulously flushed before conversion. If anyone, out of
"environmental conscience" or for whatever reason, really is hell-bent
on a new-formulation antifreeze I believe the G-05 formula used by
Chrysler and Ford (and others) has a FAR better track record than DexCool.
01-15-2004 | 04:51 PM
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
> Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
> simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime. But
neither of us have hard data, so not worth taking further.
- Mark
> simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime. But
neither of us have hard data, so not worth taking further.
- Mark
01-15-2004 | 04:51 PM
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
> Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
> simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime. But
neither of us have hard data, so not worth taking further.
- Mark
> simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime. But
neither of us have hard data, so not worth taking further.
- Mark
01-15-2004 | 04:51 PM
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
> Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
> simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime. But
neither of us have hard data, so not worth taking further.
- Mark
> simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime. But
neither of us have hard data, so not worth taking further.
- Mark
01-15-2004 | 04:51 PM
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
> Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
> simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime. But
neither of us have hard data, so not worth taking further.
- Mark
> simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime. But
neither of us have hard data, so not worth taking further.
- Mark
01-16-2004 | 04:03 PM
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
markjen wrote:
>>Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
>>simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
>
>
> I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
> AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
> types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime.
I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
>>Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
>>simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
>
>
> I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
> AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
> types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime.
I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
01-16-2004 | 04:03 PM
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
markjen wrote:
>>Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
>>simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
>
>
> I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
> AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
> types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime.
I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
>>Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
>>simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
>
>
> I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
> AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
> types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime.
I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
01-16-2004 | 04:03 PM
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
markjen wrote:
>>Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
>>simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
>
>
> I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
> AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
> types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime.
I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
>>Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
>>simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
>
>
> I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
> AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
> types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime.
I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
01-16-2004 | 04:03 PM
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
markjen wrote:
>>Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
>>simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
>
>
> I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
> AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
> types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime.
I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
>>Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more wide than
>>simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
>
>
> I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
> AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
> types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime.
I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
01-16-2004 | 04:44 PM
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
> I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
> green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
You realize that Dexcool is almost all EG also, don't you? The only
difference between conventional EG and Dexcool is an organic acid corrosion
inhibitor package instead of the typical phosphate, silicate corrosion
inhibitor package. I don't see any mechanism where a slightly different
corrosion inhibitor package could take 8-qts of coolant and turn it into
mud.
Just like oil, AF's are a huge source or urban legend mythology.
- Mark
> green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
You realize that Dexcool is almost all EG also, don't you? The only
difference between conventional EG and Dexcool is an organic acid corrosion
inhibitor package instead of the typical phosphate, silicate corrosion
inhibitor package. I don't see any mechanism where a slightly different
corrosion inhibitor package could take 8-qts of coolant and turn it into
mud.
Just like oil, AF's are a huge source or urban legend mythology.
- Mark
01-16-2004 | 04:44 PM
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Some ruminations on antifreeze
> I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
> green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
You realize that Dexcool is almost all EG also, don't you? The only
difference between conventional EG and Dexcool is an organic acid corrosion
inhibitor package instead of the typical phosphate, silicate corrosion
inhibitor package. I don't see any mechanism where a slightly different
corrosion inhibitor package could take 8-qts of coolant and turn it into
mud.
Just like oil, AF's are a huge source or urban legend mythology.
- Mark
> green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.
You realize that Dexcool is almost all EG also, don't you? The only
difference between conventional EG and Dexcool is an organic acid corrosion
inhibitor package instead of the typical phosphate, silicate corrosion
inhibitor package. I don't see any mechanism where a slightly different
corrosion inhibitor package could take 8-qts of coolant and turn it into
mud.
Just like oil, AF's are a huge source or urban legend mythology.
- Mark