gautam@storm.cns.ufl.edu wrote:
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> gautam@ufl.edu wrote:
>>> Is changing the fuel filter something a novice can do? Is there a how to
>>> document someone can point me to?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> G
>>>
>> why do you want to do it? what problems are you experiencing? how many
>> miles on the vehicle?
>
> There are some misfires when engine idles. None that I can discern while
> driving the car. Drives well. It is a 93 Del Sol with 88K miles. A
> neighbour suggested changing the fuel filter. Also said it may have
> sticky valves and I could try some cleaning agent like Techron.
>
> Recent work done to the car are:
> New Timing Belt
> New water pump
> (All Honda parts)
>
> After the timing belt was replaced, noticed engine knocking during
> acceleration after the car warmed up.

ok, timing belt gets changed, engine starts knocking. clue: those two
events are connected!

> Got lots of advise, and finally
> put in high octane gas and fuel system cleaner and the knocking went
> away 99.9%. Not sure if I have to keep on putting high octane gas.

what does it say in the owners manual? if it's not a high compression
b16 vtec, it's designed to run on regular. fix the problem, don't fudge
it with unnecessary filters and the incorrect grade of gas!

>
> Next replaced spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor. The
> plug wires had the original 93 date stamp on it. Assume all these are
> originals and may have never been replaced. I got the car about 6
> months ago. Had ordered the fuel filter at this time. ( All Honda parts)
>
> Since I have already done so much work, why not replace the fuel filter
> also....
>

the fuel filter won't make the slightest bit of difference to an idle
problem.

#1 likely cause of this problem is related to timing of both the
ignition and the valve train. if the timing belt is loose, a /very/
common occurrence if the belt has been changed by someone not
experienced with honda, the ignition sensors lash back and forth making
it both very hard to set timing accurately and making it hard for the
engine computer to fire the ignition correctly. if you don't already
have it, buy the factory honda workshop manual from helm.com and read on
how to set the belt properly. then you can set the ignition timing
correctly [not forgetting to do it with the service connector in place]
and enjoy a happy motor once again. also be open to the possibility of
the timing belt being out one tooth...

 

Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Seems reasonably straight
forward to try.

Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
> It should be fairly easy on this year of Honda. Worst case,
> you'll have to buy a wrench/socket or two and be persistent
> in getting the joints freed.
>
> The steps appear at:
> http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker...3d80140a1f.jsp
>
> www.slhonda.com 's parts site should have some drawings to
> help you locate the filter, if needed, too.
>
> Elle
> Original owner, 1991 Civic, filter took a couple hours to
> replace the first time many years ago (mostly due to not
> having a very good wrench/socket/adapter etc. set). Now
> takes about a half hour.
>
> <gautam@ufl.edu> wrote
>> Is changing the fuel filter something a novice can do? Is
>> there a how to
>> document someone can point me to?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> G
>>
>
>

 

Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Seems reasonably straight
forward to try.

Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
> It should be fairly easy on this year of Honda. Worst case,
> you'll have to buy a wrench/socket or two and be persistent
> in getting the joints freed.
>
> The steps appear at:
> http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker...3d80140a1f.jsp
>
> www.slhonda.com 's parts site should have some drawings to
> help you locate the filter, if needed, too.
>
> Elle
> Original owner, 1991 Civic, filter took a couple hours to
> replace the first time many years ago (mostly due to not
> having a very good wrench/socket/adapter etc. set). Now
> takes about a half hour.
>
> <gautam@ufl.edu> wrote
>> Is changing the fuel filter something a novice can do? Is
>> there a how to
>> document someone can point me to?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> G
>>
>
>

 

Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Seems reasonably straight
forward to try.

Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
> It should be fairly easy on this year of Honda. Worst case,
> you'll have to buy a wrench/socket or two and be persistent
> in getting the joints freed.
>
> The steps appear at:
> http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker...3d80140a1f.jsp
>
> www.slhonda.com 's parts site should have some drawings to
> help you locate the filter, if needed, too.
>
> Elle
> Original owner, 1991 Civic, filter took a couple hours to
> replace the first time many years ago (mostly due to not
> having a very good wrench/socket/adapter etc. set). Now
> takes about a half hour.
>
> <gautam@ufl.edu> wrote
>> Is changing the fuel filter something a novice can do? Is
>> there a how to
>> document someone can point me to?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> G
>>
>
>

 

'Curly Q. Links' <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote:
> gautam@storm.cns.ufl.edu wrote:
>>
>> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> > gautam@ufl.edu wrote:
>> >> Is changing the fuel filter something a novice can do? Is there a how to
>> >> document someone can point me to?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> G
>> >>
>> > why do you want to do it? what problems are you experiencing? how many
>> > miles on the vehicle?
>>
>> There are some misfires when engine idles.
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Plugged fuel filter never manifests at idle. It will show up when you've
> loaded all your belongings into the car (and a ski box on top) and are
> climbing a mountain trying to pass an 18-wheeler into a headwind. That's
> when the need for fuel flow is the highest. Sitting in your driveway
> uses almost zero gas. Even starting it uses very little.
> Techron is for sticking / dribbling injectors, not valves.
>
> Hope this helps.

Thanks. Can you suggest what to use for cleaning valves?

 

'Curly Q. Links' <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote:
> gautam@storm.cns.ufl.edu wrote:
>>
>> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> > gautam@ufl.edu wrote:
>> >> Is changing the fuel filter something a novice can do? Is there a how to
>> >> document someone can point me to?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> G
>> >>
>> > why do you want to do it? what problems are you experiencing? how many
>> > miles on the vehicle?
>>
>> There are some misfires when engine idles.
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Plugged fuel filter never manifests at idle. It will show up when you've
> loaded all your belongings into the car (and a ski box on top) and are
> climbing a mountain trying to pass an 18-wheeler into a headwind. That's
> when the need for fuel flow is the highest. Sitting in your driveway
> uses almost zero gas. Even starting it uses very little.
> Techron is for sticking / dribbling injectors, not valves.
>
> Hope this helps.

Thanks. Can you suggest what to use for cleaning valves?

 

'Curly Q. Links' <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote:
> gautam@storm.cns.ufl.edu wrote:
>>
>> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> > gautam@ufl.edu wrote:
>> >> Is changing the fuel filter something a novice can do? Is there a how to
>> >> document someone can point me to?
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> G
>> >>
>> > why do you want to do it? what problems are you experiencing? how many
>> > miles on the vehicle?
>>
>> There are some misfires when engine idles.
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Plugged fuel filter never manifests at idle. It will show up when you've
> loaded all your belongings into the car (and a ski box on top) and are
> climbing a mountain trying to pass an 18-wheeler into a headwind. That's
> when the need for fuel flow is the highest. Sitting in your driveway
> uses almost zero gas. Even starting it uses very little.
> Techron is for sticking / dribbling injectors, not valves.
>
> Hope this helps.

Thanks. Can you suggest what to use for cleaning valves?

 

Yes, and it sounds like the fuel filter is due, even if it's
not behind the problems.

Check the ignition timing at some point real soon, too.

Double check: What brand plugs did you use?

Always wise to start from a "clean baseline," (eliminating
all the little stuff that has to be replaced periodically
anyway) as well.

<gautam@storm.cns.ufl.edu> wrote
> Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Seems
> reasonably straight
> forward to try.
>
> Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>> It should be fairly easy on this year of Honda. Worst
>> case,
>> you'll have to buy a wrench/socket or two and be
>> persistent
>> in getting the joints freed.
>>
>> The steps appear at:
>> http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker...3d80140a1f.jsp
>>
>> www.slhonda.com 's parts site should have some drawings
>> to
>> help you locate the filter, if needed, too.
>>
>> Elle
>> Original owner, 1991 Civic, filter took a couple hours to
>> replace the first time many years ago (mostly due to not
>> having a very good wrench/socket/adapter etc. set). Now
>> takes about a half hour.
>>
>> <gautam@ufl.edu> wrote
>>> Is changing the fuel filter something a novice can do?
>>> Is
>>> there a how to
>>> document someone can point me to?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> G
>>>
>>
>>

 

Yes, and it sounds like the fuel filter is due, even if it's
not behind the problems.

Check the ignition timing at some point real soon, too.

Double check: What brand plugs did you use?

Always wise to start from a "clean baseline," (eliminating
all the little stuff that has to be replaced periodically
anyway) as well.

<gautam@storm.cns.ufl.edu> wrote
> Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Seems
> reasonably straight
> forward to try.
>
> Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>> It should be fairly easy on this year of Honda. Worst
>> case,
>> you'll have to buy a wrench/socket or two and be
>> persistent
>> in getting the joints freed.
>>
>> The steps appear at:
>> http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker...3d80140a1f.jsp
>>
>> www.slhonda.com 's parts site should have some drawings
>> to
>> help you locate the filter, if needed, too.
>>
>> Elle
>> Original owner, 1991 Civic, filter took a couple hours to
>> replace the first time many years ago (mostly due to not
>> having a very good wrench/socket/adapter etc. set). Now
>> takes about a half hour.
>>
>> <gautam@ufl.edu> wrote
>>> Is changing the fuel filter something a novice can do?
>>> Is
>>> there a how to
>>> document someone can point me to?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> G
>>>
>>
>>

 

Yes, and it sounds like the fuel filter is due, even if it's
not behind the problems.

Check the ignition timing at some point real soon, too.

Double check: What brand plugs did you use?

Always wise to start from a "clean baseline," (eliminating
all the little stuff that has to be replaced periodically
anyway) as well.

<gautam@storm.cns.ufl.edu> wrote
> Thanks. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Seems
> reasonably straight
> forward to try.
>
> Elle <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:
>> It should be fairly easy on this year of Honda. Worst
>> case,
>> you'll have to buy a wrench/socket or two and be
>> persistent
>> in getting the joints freed.
>>
>> The steps appear at:
>> http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker...3d80140a1f.jsp
>>
>> www.slhonda.com 's parts site should have some drawings
>> to
>> help you locate the filter, if needed, too.
>>
>> Elle
>> Original owner, 1991 Civic, filter took a couple hours to
>> replace the first time many years ago (mostly due to not
>> having a very good wrench/socket/adapter etc. set). Now
>> takes about a half hour.
>>
>> <gautam@ufl.edu> wrote
>>> Is changing the fuel filter something a novice can do?
>>> Is
>>> there a how to
>>> document someone can point me to?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> G
>>>
>>
>>

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>> Recent work done to the car are:
>> New Timing Belt
>> New water pump
>> (All Honda parts)
>>
>> After the timing belt was replaced, noticed engine knocking during
>> acceleration after the car warmed up.
>
> ok, timing belt gets changed, engine starts knocking. clue: those two
> events are connected!
>
>> Got lots of advise, and finally
>> put in high octane gas and fuel system cleaner and the knocking went
>> away 99.9%. Not sure if I have to keep on putting high octane gas.
>
> what does it say in the owners manual? if it's not a high compression
> b16 vtec, it's designed to run on regular. fix the problem, don't fudge
> it with unnecessary filters and the incorrect grade of gas!
>
>>
>> Next replaced spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor. The
>> plug wires had the original 93 date stamp on it. Assume all these are
>> originals and may have never been replaced. I got the car about 6
>> months ago. Had ordered the fuel filter at this time. ( All Honda parts)
>>
>> Since I have already done so much work, why not replace the fuel filter
>> also....
>>
>
> the fuel filter won't make the slightest bit of difference to an idle
> problem.
>
> #1 likely cause of this problem is related to timing of both the
> ignition and the valve train. if the timing belt is loose, a /very/
> common occurrence if the belt has been changed by someone not
> experienced with honda, the ignition sensors lash back and forth making
> it both very hard to set timing accurately and making it hard for the
> engine computer to fire the ignition correctly. if you don't already
> have it, buy the factory honda workshop manual from helm.com and read on
> how to set the belt properly. then you can set the ignition timing
> correctly [not forgetting to do it with the service connector in place]
> and enjoy a happy motor once again. also be open to the possibility of
> the timing belt being out one tooth...

Thanks. I have to talk to my friend who did the timing work. He knows
what he is doing. Let me see if I can convince him to give the belt
another look for correct tensioning. I don't think it is off by a whole
tooth. It probably is a bit loose.

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>> Recent work done to the car are:
>> New Timing Belt
>> New water pump
>> (All Honda parts)
>>
>> After the timing belt was replaced, noticed engine knocking during
>> acceleration after the car warmed up.
>
> ok, timing belt gets changed, engine starts knocking. clue: those two
> events are connected!
>
>> Got lots of advise, and finally
>> put in high octane gas and fuel system cleaner and the knocking went
>> away 99.9%. Not sure if I have to keep on putting high octane gas.
>
> what does it say in the owners manual? if it's not a high compression
> b16 vtec, it's designed to run on regular. fix the problem, don't fudge
> it with unnecessary filters and the incorrect grade of gas!
>
>>
>> Next replaced spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor. The
>> plug wires had the original 93 date stamp on it. Assume all these are
>> originals and may have never been replaced. I got the car about 6
>> months ago. Had ordered the fuel filter at this time. ( All Honda parts)
>>
>> Since I have already done so much work, why not replace the fuel filter
>> also....
>>
>
> the fuel filter won't make the slightest bit of difference to an idle
> problem.
>
> #1 likely cause of this problem is related to timing of both the
> ignition and the valve train. if the timing belt is loose, a /very/
> common occurrence if the belt has been changed by someone not
> experienced with honda, the ignition sensors lash back and forth making
> it both very hard to set timing accurately and making it hard for the
> engine computer to fire the ignition correctly. if you don't already
> have it, buy the factory honda workshop manual from helm.com and read on
> how to set the belt properly. then you can set the ignition timing
> correctly [not forgetting to do it with the service connector in place]
> and enjoy a happy motor once again. also be open to the possibility of
> the timing belt being out one tooth...

Thanks. I have to talk to my friend who did the timing work. He knows
what he is doing. Let me see if I can convince him to give the belt
another look for correct tensioning. I don't think it is off by a whole
tooth. It probably is a bit loose.

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>> Recent work done to the car are:
>> New Timing Belt
>> New water pump
>> (All Honda parts)
>>
>> After the timing belt was replaced, noticed engine knocking during
>> acceleration after the car warmed up.
>
> ok, timing belt gets changed, engine starts knocking. clue: those two
> events are connected!
>
>> Got lots of advise, and finally
>> put in high octane gas and fuel system cleaner and the knocking went
>> away 99.9%. Not sure if I have to keep on putting high octane gas.
>
> what does it say in the owners manual? if it's not a high compression
> b16 vtec, it's designed to run on regular. fix the problem, don't fudge
> it with unnecessary filters and the incorrect grade of gas!
>
>>
>> Next replaced spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor. The
>> plug wires had the original 93 date stamp on it. Assume all these are
>> originals and may have never been replaced. I got the car about 6
>> months ago. Had ordered the fuel filter at this time. ( All Honda parts)
>>
>> Since I have already done so much work, why not replace the fuel filter
>> also....
>>
>
> the fuel filter won't make the slightest bit of difference to an idle
> problem.
>
> #1 likely cause of this problem is related to timing of both the
> ignition and the valve train. if the timing belt is loose, a /very/
> common occurrence if the belt has been changed by someone not
> experienced with honda, the ignition sensors lash back and forth making
> it both very hard to set timing accurately and making it hard for the
> engine computer to fire the ignition correctly. if you don't already
> have it, buy the factory honda workshop manual from helm.com and read on
> how to set the belt properly. then you can set the ignition timing
> correctly [not forgetting to do it with the service connector in place]
> and enjoy a happy motor once again. also be open to the possibility of
> the timing belt being out one tooth...

Thanks. I have to talk to my friend who did the timing work. He knows
what he is doing. Let me see if I can convince him to give the belt
another look for correct tensioning. I don't think it is off by a whole
tooth. It probably is a bit loose.

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
> #1 likely cause of this problem is related to timing of both the
> ignition and the valve train. if the timing belt is loose, a /very/
> common occurrence if the belt has been changed by someone not
> experienced with honda, the ignition sensors lash back and forth making
> it both very hard to set timing accurately and making it hard for the
> engine computer to fire the ignition correctly. if you don't already
> have it, buy the factory honda workshop manual from helm.com and read on
> how to set the belt properly. then you can set the ignition timing
> correctly [not forgetting to do it with the service connector in place]
> and enjoy a happy motor once again. also be open to the possibility of
> the timing belt being out one tooth...

Lots of thanks to Jim. After checking the timing light found ignition
timing was way off. Next took the valve cover off and timing belt cover off,
aligned the timing marks per manual, looked at the mark on the crank
pulley, it was off by 18 degrees, which corresponds to exactly one tooth
on the cam timing pulley. The guy who did the timing belt work got confused
with the red ingition timing mark and the white TDC cam timing mark, and
used the red ignition mark as TDC.

Now the car is fixed and I have a happy motor. Thanks Jim you were right
on the mark.

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
> #1 likely cause of this problem is related to timing of both the
> ignition and the valve train. if the timing belt is loose, a /very/
> common occurrence if the belt has been changed by someone not
> experienced with honda, the ignition sensors lash back and forth making
> it both very hard to set timing accurately and making it hard for the
> engine computer to fire the ignition correctly. if you don't already
> have it, buy the factory honda workshop manual from helm.com and read on
> how to set the belt properly. then you can set the ignition timing
> correctly [not forgetting to do it with the service connector in place]
> and enjoy a happy motor once again. also be open to the possibility of
> the timing belt being out one tooth...

Lots of thanks to Jim. After checking the timing light found ignition
timing was way off. Next took the valve cover off and timing belt cover off,
aligned the timing marks per manual, looked at the mark on the crank
pulley, it was off by 18 degrees, which corresponds to exactly one tooth
on the cam timing pulley. The guy who did the timing belt work got confused
with the red ingition timing mark and the white TDC cam timing mark, and
used the red ignition mark as TDC.

Now the car is fixed and I have a happy motor. Thanks Jim you were right
on the mark.