"Realistically, if I changed my brake fluid every 30,000 miles (as
recommended in the manual) and changed my oil/transmission fluid/
coolant whenever the dealer or Maintenance Minder advised me, well my
Ford would last forever, too."

Is that a bad thing? Isn't the basis of any car performance, safety,
and RELIABILITY?

What a lot of Honda dealers in my area are doing now is making all
maintence-minder requested service free for cars bought at their
dealership. I got my 2007 Ody at Schaefer and Strohminger Honda in
Fallston, MD, and I won't have to pay for any service the maintence
minder requests until I reach 120,000 miles -- that's at least a good
eight years for me.

 

"Realistically, if I changed my brake fluid every 30,000 miles (as
recommended in the manual) and changed my oil/transmission fluid/
coolant whenever the dealer or Maintenance Minder advised me, well my
Ford would last forever, too."

Is that a bad thing? Isn't the basis of any car performance, safety,
and RELIABILITY?

What a lot of Honda dealers in my area are doing now is making all
maintence-minder requested service free for cars bought at their
dealership. I got my 2007 Ody at Schaefer and Strohminger Honda in
Fallston, MD, and I won't have to pay for any service the maintence
minder requests until I reach 120,000 miles -- that's at least a good
eight years for me.

 

rpms0605@yahoo.com wrote in
news:20070112233137634-0500@news1.news.adelphia.net:


>
>
> Several of these replies almost sound like they're coming from Honda
> dealers.



Not mine. I just happen to own a Honda. And I happen to trust Honda's
judgement better than my own, for the most part.



> I guess I am a bit suspicious of this "Maintenance Minder"
> device. Do you really think it has sensors located throughout the
> engine and transmission? Do you think it makes economic sense for
> Honda to install such complicated and sophisticated instrumentation on
> a $17, 000 car? I'm a mechanical engineer and my guess is that this
> system simply takes note of the mileage and temperature and averages
> it out to tell you to change the oil. Sort of a gimmick, if you ask
> me.



High-end cars like Mercedes actually do now have sensors that sample oil
quality and recommend replacement based on an actual analysis.

Honda and most other makers do it by calculation. The calculations are
arrived at by considering driving habits and ambient temperatures. The
algorithms used are fairly sophisticated.

Your objection sounds like the ones expressed by steel-furnace men a
hundred years ago, when pyrometers were being introduced to help better
control furnace temperatures. The furnace men were insulted, figuring
they were being told they didn't know what they were doing. Of course,
it turned out the pyrometers were far more accurate than human eyes,
which is why all furnaces mow have pyrometers.



> Now, i hate to sound suspicious but when an owners manual claims
> you can only use Honda brand fluids and they also program their
> Maintenance Minder to tell you when they need changing, well, I wonder
> how much influence the Honda dealers had during the programming
> routine of this Maintenance Minder?



None at all. Honda assumes the dealers are following factory procedure,
which may or may not actually be the case. Honda and its dealers have a
love-hate relationship.

Mercedes got into trouble a few years ago for just this. The oil
monitoring system of the time was expecting factory-specific synthetic
oil, but the dealers were installing regular oil. The result was heavy
sludging and a class-action lawsuit.

Honda dealers are independent companies that have purchased a Honda
franchise from Honda. They are under no obligation to use Honda repair
parts, use Honda tools or follow Honda procedures. This is one reason
you'll find wide variance in dealer quality.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

rpms0605@yahoo.com wrote in
news:20070112233137634-0500@news1.news.adelphia.net:


>
>
> Several of these replies almost sound like they're coming from Honda
> dealers.



Not mine. I just happen to own a Honda. And I happen to trust Honda's
judgement better than my own, for the most part.



> I guess I am a bit suspicious of this "Maintenance Minder"
> device. Do you really think it has sensors located throughout the
> engine and transmission? Do you think it makes economic sense for
> Honda to install such complicated and sophisticated instrumentation on
> a $17, 000 car? I'm a mechanical engineer and my guess is that this
> system simply takes note of the mileage and temperature and averages
> it out to tell you to change the oil. Sort of a gimmick, if you ask
> me.



High-end cars like Mercedes actually do now have sensors that sample oil
quality and recommend replacement based on an actual analysis.

Honda and most other makers do it by calculation. The calculations are
arrived at by considering driving habits and ambient temperatures. The
algorithms used are fairly sophisticated.

Your objection sounds like the ones expressed by steel-furnace men a
hundred years ago, when pyrometers were being introduced to help better
control furnace temperatures. The furnace men were insulted, figuring
they were being told they didn't know what they were doing. Of course,
it turned out the pyrometers were far more accurate than human eyes,
which is why all furnaces mow have pyrometers.



> Now, i hate to sound suspicious but when an owners manual claims
> you can only use Honda brand fluids and they also program their
> Maintenance Minder to tell you when they need changing, well, I wonder
> how much influence the Honda dealers had during the programming
> routine of this Maintenance Minder?



None at all. Honda assumes the dealers are following factory procedure,
which may or may not actually be the case. Honda and its dealers have a
love-hate relationship.

Mercedes got into trouble a few years ago for just this. The oil
monitoring system of the time was expecting factory-specific synthetic
oil, but the dealers were installing regular oil. The result was heavy
sludging and a class-action lawsuit.

Honda dealers are independent companies that have purchased a Honda
franchise from Honda. They are under no obligation to use Honda repair
parts, use Honda tools or follow Honda procedures. This is one reason
you'll find wide variance in dealer quality.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

rpms0605@yahoo.com wrote in
news:20070112233137634-0500@news1.news.adelphia.net:


>
>
> Several of these replies almost sound like they're coming from Honda
> dealers.



Not mine. I just happen to own a Honda. And I happen to trust Honda's
judgement better than my own, for the most part.



> I guess I am a bit suspicious of this "Maintenance Minder"
> device. Do you really think it has sensors located throughout the
> engine and transmission? Do you think it makes economic sense for
> Honda to install such complicated and sophisticated instrumentation on
> a $17, 000 car? I'm a mechanical engineer and my guess is that this
> system simply takes note of the mileage and temperature and averages
> it out to tell you to change the oil. Sort of a gimmick, if you ask
> me.



High-end cars like Mercedes actually do now have sensors that sample oil
quality and recommend replacement based on an actual analysis.

Honda and most other makers do it by calculation. The calculations are
arrived at by considering driving habits and ambient temperatures. The
algorithms used are fairly sophisticated.

Your objection sounds like the ones expressed by steel-furnace men a
hundred years ago, when pyrometers were being introduced to help better
control furnace temperatures. The furnace men were insulted, figuring
they were being told they didn't know what they were doing. Of course,
it turned out the pyrometers were far more accurate than human eyes,
which is why all furnaces mow have pyrometers.



> Now, i hate to sound suspicious but when an owners manual claims
> you can only use Honda brand fluids and they also program their
> Maintenance Minder to tell you when they need changing, well, I wonder
> how much influence the Honda dealers had during the programming
> routine of this Maintenance Minder?



None at all. Honda assumes the dealers are following factory procedure,
which may or may not actually be the case. Honda and its dealers have a
love-hate relationship.

Mercedes got into trouble a few years ago for just this. The oil
monitoring system of the time was expecting factory-specific synthetic
oil, but the dealers were installing regular oil. The result was heavy
sludging and a class-action lawsuit.

Honda dealers are independent companies that have purchased a Honda
franchise from Honda. They are under no obligation to use Honda repair
parts, use Honda tools or follow Honda procedures. This is one reason
you'll find wide variance in dealer quality.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

rpms0605@yahoo.com wrote in
news:20070112233137634-0500@news1.news.adelphia.net:


>
>
> Several of these replies almost sound like they're coming from Honda
> dealers.



Not mine. I just happen to own a Honda. And I happen to trust Honda's
judgement better than my own, for the most part.



> I guess I am a bit suspicious of this "Maintenance Minder"
> device. Do you really think it has sensors located throughout the
> engine and transmission? Do you think it makes economic sense for
> Honda to install such complicated and sophisticated instrumentation on
> a $17, 000 car? I'm a mechanical engineer and my guess is that this
> system simply takes note of the mileage and temperature and averages
> it out to tell you to change the oil. Sort of a gimmick, if you ask
> me.



High-end cars like Mercedes actually do now have sensors that sample oil
quality and recommend replacement based on an actual analysis.

Honda and most other makers do it by calculation. The calculations are
arrived at by considering driving habits and ambient temperatures. The
algorithms used are fairly sophisticated.

Your objection sounds like the ones expressed by steel-furnace men a
hundred years ago, when pyrometers were being introduced to help better
control furnace temperatures. The furnace men were insulted, figuring
they were being told they didn't know what they were doing. Of course,
it turned out the pyrometers were far more accurate than human eyes,
which is why all furnaces mow have pyrometers.



> Now, i hate to sound suspicious but when an owners manual claims
> you can only use Honda brand fluids and they also program their
> Maintenance Minder to tell you when they need changing, well, I wonder
> how much influence the Honda dealers had during the programming
> routine of this Maintenance Minder?



None at all. Honda assumes the dealers are following factory procedure,
which may or may not actually be the case. Honda and its dealers have a
love-hate relationship.

Mercedes got into trouble a few years ago for just this. The oil
monitoring system of the time was expecting factory-specific synthetic
oil, but the dealers were installing regular oil. The result was heavy
sludging and a class-action lawsuit.

Honda dealers are independent companies that have purchased a Honda
franchise from Honda. They are under no obligation to use Honda repair
parts, use Honda tools or follow Honda procedures. This is one reason
you'll find wide variance in dealer quality.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/