"John D." wrote:

> For me, it's not an issue of which one is better -- Mobil 1, Royal

> For me, Mobil 1 is "quite good enough" and I'll be staying with it.

Exactly! Do you like blondes, brunettes or redheads? Unless one has a
lab to test these different products under identical conditions to
determine which one is "best," it's just personal preference and
anecdotal stories. What works well in my engine is the one that I
~think~ works well based on the limited parameters I can measure: oil
pressure, oil consumption, fuel economy, the odometer, operating cost. I
haven't a clue what kind of wear is going on inside my engine until I
tear it down and measure it. But since my engine's got 336k miles, I
think it's safe to assume whatever I've been using works--for me. This
is purely YMMV territory!

Rick

 

"Noway" <noway@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QVSWa.125686$R92.12731@news2.central.***.net. ..
> > Actually, _he_ (noway) was talking test results....as in wanting some to
> > decide on what oil to use.
> >
> > Seems it wasn't important after all, because he used a different science
> to
> > decide.
> > He asked a guy who was trying to *sell* him oil.
> >
> > How technically astute.
>
> I found more performance and wear tests on Royal Purple than Mobil 1. Also
> was told it was real big in the RSX crowd because it's a lot easier on
there
> apex seals.

Apex seals? I didn't know Acura's even *had* those, at least in their
engines.

Shows what I know.

I guess.

 

"Noway" <noway@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:QVSWa.125686$R92.12731@news2.central.***.net. ..
> > Actually, _he_ (noway) was talking test results....as in wanting some to
> > decide on what oil to use.
> >
> > Seems it wasn't important after all, because he used a different science
> to
> > decide.
> > He asked a guy who was trying to *sell* him oil.
> >
> > How technically astute.
>
> I found more performance and wear tests on Royal Purple than Mobil 1. Also
> was told it was real big in the RSX crowd because it's a lot easier on
there
> apex seals.

Apex seals? I didn't know Acura's even *had* those, at least in their
engines.

Shows what I know.

I guess.

 

Noway wrote:

> information. I used Mobil1 for 5 years now, so its not like I haven't had
> first hand experience, and from what I read on there web site, they just
> dance around anything that has to do with performance tests.

So what performance tests would you like to see? Did Mobil 1 do what you
wanted it to do? Did it ever fail you in any way or cause engine damage?
Those are the ultimate performances test in my book. Just curious what
might be missing...

Rick

 

Noway wrote:

> information. I used Mobil1 for 5 years now, so its not like I haven't had
> first hand experience, and from what I read on there web site, they just
> dance around anything that has to do with performance tests.

So what performance tests would you like to see? Did Mobil 1 do what you
wanted it to do? Did it ever fail you in any way or cause engine damage?
Those are the ultimate performances test in my book. Just curious what
might be missing...

Rick

 

>
> Apex seals? I didn't know Acura's even *had* those, at least in their
> engines.
>
> Shows what I know.
>
> I guess.

That should be RX's

 

>
> Apex seals? I didn't know Acura's even *had* those, at least in their
> engines.
>
> Shows what I know.
>
> I guess.

That should be RX's

 

In news:3F2BFEAC.CCB350D4@iname.com,
Rick Courtright <rcourtright@iname.com> jubilantly posted:
> "Philip®" wrote:
>
>>> API SL specs (or any other testing sequence), the ONLY thing you
>>> know
>>> for certain is the minimum quality of the oil. Actual hard data
>>> on
>
>> You are really behind the wave.
>
> Really?
>
>> ILSAC is nearly meaningless beyond EPA concerns, API is only the
>> minimum threashold specs. ACEA tells you a lot more about an oil
>> and the manufacturer specs (i.e. Mercedes) tells even more.
>
> Do you suppose one
> of the reasons mfrs don't post much info is the poor reading
> comprehension of the general public? Much easier to tell them
> nothing than have it misinterpreted. Please tell me what ACEA or a
> mfr's spec tells me? Other than the oil meets the ~minimum~
> requirements for that testing sequence?
> Rick

Time for you to use the net and find out how much better ACEA is at
grading oils to specific applications and how they go about doing so
every other year (ie, 98, 00, 02 ACEA A1, etc). I prefer the MB test
sequence rating for cars and light diesel).

For starters:

http://www.theoilstore.co.uk/datashe...ngineClassific
ations/index.html
--

~~Philip

cantankerous | kan-TANG-kruss | adjective: difficult or irritating to
deal with.

Example: Philip was always cantankerous in the morning, given to snapping
and snarling until he'd had his first cup of coffee and a soothing hot
shower.

 

In news:3F2BFEAC.CCB350D4@iname.com,
Rick Courtright <rcourtright@iname.com> jubilantly posted:
> "Philip®" wrote:
>
>>> API SL specs (or any other testing sequence), the ONLY thing you
>>> know
>>> for certain is the minimum quality of the oil. Actual hard data
>>> on
>
>> You are really behind the wave.
>
> Really?
>
>> ILSAC is nearly meaningless beyond EPA concerns, API is only the
>> minimum threashold specs. ACEA tells you a lot more about an oil
>> and the manufacturer specs (i.e. Mercedes) tells even more.
>
> Do you suppose one
> of the reasons mfrs don't post much info is the poor reading
> comprehension of the general public? Much easier to tell them
> nothing than have it misinterpreted. Please tell me what ACEA or a
> mfr's spec tells me? Other than the oil meets the ~minimum~
> requirements for that testing sequence?
> Rick

Time for you to use the net and find out how much better ACEA is at
grading oils to specific applications and how they go about doing so
every other year (ie, 98, 00, 02 ACEA A1, etc). I prefer the MB test
sequence rating for cars and light diesel).

For starters:

http://www.theoilstore.co.uk/datashe...ngineClassific
ations/index.html
--

~~Philip

cantankerous | kan-TANG-kruss | adjective: difficult or irritating to
deal with.

Example: Philip was always cantankerous in the morning, given to snapping
and snarling until he'd had his first cup of coffee and a soothing hot
shower.

 

"Philip®" <chipstate@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:UfWWa.2859$jg7.1764@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> In news:t4UWa.125979$R92.78376@news2.central.***.net,
> noway <nospam@nospam.com> jubilantly posted:
> > I ran Mobil1 in my last car from the first oil change, and had a
> > cold engine knock at about 40k miles that started in the winter.
> > Yes I changed my oil regularly, and used Mobil1 oil filters.
>
> >snip<
>
> So WHERE is the conclusive or at *least* persuasive evidence that your
> engine knock was the oil's fault? How about a materials failure or
> perhaps operator abuse (ie, starting the motor up cold and immediately
> holding the engine up at 3,000 rpm.)?

I will bet you anything I'm easier on a cold engine than 99.99% of the
people out there. One of the main reasons I won't buy a used car.

Again, I don't care what oil you use. I don't have to justify my decision to
you or anyone else, and I could care less what you think if you ever think
at all.

 

"Philip®" <chipstate@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:UfWWa.2859$jg7.1764@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> In news:t4UWa.125979$R92.78376@news2.central.***.net,
> noway <nospam@nospam.com> jubilantly posted:
> > I ran Mobil1 in my last car from the first oil change, and had a
> > cold engine knock at about 40k miles that started in the winter.
> > Yes I changed my oil regularly, and used Mobil1 oil filters.
>
> >snip<
>
> So WHERE is the conclusive or at *least* persuasive evidence that your
> engine knock was the oil's fault? How about a materials failure or
> perhaps operator abuse (ie, starting the motor up cold and immediately
> holding the engine up at 3,000 rpm.)?

I will bet you anything I'm easier on a cold engine than 99.99% of the
people out there. One of the main reasons I won't buy a used car.

Again, I don't care what oil you use. I don't have to justify my decision to
you or anyone else, and I could care less what you think if you ever think
at all.

 

"noway" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:FRXWa.126528$R92.30378@news2.central.***.net. ..
>
> "Philip®" <chipstate@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:UfWWa.2859$jg7.1764@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > In news:t4UWa.125979$R92.78376@news2.central.***.net,
> > noway <nospam@nospam.com> jubilantly posted:
> > > I ran Mobil1 in my last car from the first oil change, and had a
> > > cold engine knock at about 40k miles that started in the winter.
> > > Yes I changed my oil regularly, and used Mobil1 oil filters.
> >
> > >snip<
> >
> > So WHERE is the conclusive or at *least* persuasive evidence that your
> > engine knock was the oil's fault? How about a materials failure or
> > perhaps operator abuse (ie, starting the motor up cold and immediately
> > holding the engine up at 3,000 rpm.)?
>
> I will bet you anything I'm easier on a cold engine than 99.99% of the
> people out there. One of the main reasons I won't buy a used car.
>
> Again, I don't care what oil you use. I don't have to justify my decision
to
> you or anyone else, and I could care less what you think if you ever think
> at all.
>


FWIW, I've been using M1 5W-30 and Mobil 1 filters in a '99 Camry V6 since
5K miles. I have 64K miles now.
I stopped using M1 filters after I noticed that each time I parked the car
for 3 weeks or longer, on startup I would hear a disconcerting mechanical
whap-whap-whap noise from the innards of the engine for about 5 seconds with
very shaky idling for 20 sec . Didn't happen when I parked the car for 2
weeks, but it would at 3 weeks.
This occurred on three different occasions before I realized I should maybe
try another filter.
I changed over to Toyota OEM filters (using Denso 90915-YZZB9 now), but
still use the M1 5W-30 oil. The last time I parked it (this spring) for 17
days, on restart it was fine. Normal startup, a little rough idle to begin
with, but no knock. I'll be very curious to see what happens on the next 3
week hiatus, which won't be for a while, unfortunately.
I was attracted to the M1 filters due to the claimed single and multi-pass
filtration efficiency and the better quality construction.
I still don't know exactly what the problem was, but can only guess it to be
a slow bleed from the anti-drainback valve.
BTW, I probably fall in the .01 % that you mentioned, in that I let the car
idle for 45 sec on starting cold, and generally very gently drive under
30MPH for the first mile (and take my time to get there) and 40 to 45 for
the next 4 miles constant rate. One stop only during this time.

 

"noway" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:FRXWa.126528$R92.30378@news2.central.***.net. ..
>
> "Philip®" <chipstate@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:UfWWa.2859$jg7.1764@newsread3.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> > In news:t4UWa.125979$R92.78376@news2.central.***.net,
> > noway <nospam@nospam.com> jubilantly posted:
> > > I ran Mobil1 in my last car from the first oil change, and had a
> > > cold engine knock at about 40k miles that started in the winter.
> > > Yes I changed my oil regularly, and used Mobil1 oil filters.
> >
> > >snip<
> >
> > So WHERE is the conclusive or at *least* persuasive evidence that your
> > engine knock was the oil's fault? How about a materials failure or
> > perhaps operator abuse (ie, starting the motor up cold and immediately
> > holding the engine up at 3,000 rpm.)?
>
> I will bet you anything I'm easier on a cold engine than 99.99% of the
> people out there. One of the main reasons I won't buy a used car.
>
> Again, I don't care what oil you use. I don't have to justify my decision
to
> you or anyone else, and I could care less what you think if you ever think
> at all.
>


FWIW, I've been using M1 5W-30 and Mobil 1 filters in a '99 Camry V6 since
5K miles. I have 64K miles now.
I stopped using M1 filters after I noticed that each time I parked the car
for 3 weeks or longer, on startup I would hear a disconcerting mechanical
whap-whap-whap noise from the innards of the engine for about 5 seconds with
very shaky idling for 20 sec . Didn't happen when I parked the car for 2
weeks, but it would at 3 weeks.
This occurred on three different occasions before I realized I should maybe
try another filter.
I changed over to Toyota OEM filters (using Denso 90915-YZZB9 now), but
still use the M1 5W-30 oil. The last time I parked it (this spring) for 17
days, on restart it was fine. Normal startup, a little rough idle to begin
with, but no knock. I'll be very curious to see what happens on the next 3
week hiatus, which won't be for a while, unfortunately.
I was attracted to the M1 filters due to the claimed single and multi-pass
filtration efficiency and the better quality construction.
I still don't know exactly what the problem was, but can only guess it to be
a slow bleed from the anti-drainback valve.
BTW, I probably fall in the .01 % that you mentioned, in that I let the car
idle for 45 sec on starting cold, and generally very gently drive under
30MPH for the first mile (and take my time to get there) and 40 to 45 for
the next 4 miles constant rate. One stop only during this time.

 

> > > > I ran Mobil1 in my last car from the first oil change, and had a
> > > > cold engine knock at about 40k miles that started in the winter.
> > > > Yes I changed my oil regularly, and used Mobil1 oil filters.
> > >
> > > >snip<
> > >
> > > So WHERE is the conclusive or at *least* persuasive evidence that your
> > > engine knock was the oil's fault? How about a materials failure or
> > > perhaps operator abuse (ie, starting the motor up cold and immediately
> > > holding the engine up at 3,000 rpm.)?
> >
> > I will bet you anything I'm easier on a cold engine than 99.99% of the
> > people out there. One of the main reasons I won't buy a used car.
> >
> > Again, I don't care what oil you use. I don't have to justify my
decision
> to
> > you or anyone else, and I could care less what you think if you ever
think
> > at all.
> >
>
>
> FWIW, I've been using M1 5W-30 and Mobil 1 filters in a '99 Camry V6 since
> 5K miles. I have 64K miles now.
> I stopped using M1 filters after I noticed that each time I parked the car
> for 3 weeks or longer, on startup I would hear a disconcerting mechanical
> whap-whap-whap noise from the innards of the engine for about 5 seconds
with
> very shaky idling for 20 sec . Didn't happen when I parked the car for 2
> weeks, but it would at 3 weeks.
> This occurred on three different occasions before I realized I should
maybe
> try another filter.
> I changed over to Toyota OEM filters (using Denso 90915-YZZB9 now), but
> still use the M1 5W-30 oil. The last time I parked it (this spring) for 17
> days, on restart it was fine. Normal startup, a little rough idle to begin
> with, but no knock. I'll be very curious to see what happens on the next 3
> week hiatus, which won't be for a while, unfortunately.
> I was attracted to the M1 filters due to the claimed single and multi-pass
> filtration efficiency and the better quality construction.
> I still don't know exactly what the problem was, but can only guess it to
be
> a slow bleed from the anti-drainback valve.
> BTW, I probably fall in the .01 % that you mentioned, in that I let the
car
> idle for 45 sec on starting cold, and generally very gently drive under
> 30MPH for the first mile (and take my time to get there) and 40 to 45 for
> the next 4 miles constant rate. One stop only during this time.

It could have had something to do with the filter. Hard to tell these days.
I had a Toyota Corolla for a while, and always used Toyota filters. They
just seemed like they were quality filters.

Wish they had a common testing lab to do tests on oil filters also. Flow
rate, filtering efficiency and capacity, etc.

On a cold day, like under 20, I idle for a couple of minutes, then from home
I can coast downhill for about 5 blocks to a stop light. From there to make
the lights its a slow ride, 30mph at first then 40, and a couple of miles
later its the highway, but I'm at normal temp by then. From work I'll idle a
couple of minutes, then drive slow for a while. If the highway is close by,
I'll let it warm up longer, but I do know enough not to be rough on a cold
engine.

I haven't seen anyone yet thats easier on a cold engine than me.

 

> > > > I ran Mobil1 in my last car from the first oil change, and had a
> > > > cold engine knock at about 40k miles that started in the winter.
> > > > Yes I changed my oil regularly, and used Mobil1 oil filters.
> > >
> > > >snip<
> > >
> > > So WHERE is the conclusive or at *least* persuasive evidence that your
> > > engine knock was the oil's fault? How about a materials failure or
> > > perhaps operator abuse (ie, starting the motor up cold and immediately
> > > holding the engine up at 3,000 rpm.)?
> >
> > I will bet you anything I'm easier on a cold engine than 99.99% of the
> > people out there. One of the main reasons I won't buy a used car.
> >
> > Again, I don't care what oil you use. I don't have to justify my
decision
> to
> > you or anyone else, and I could care less what you think if you ever
think
> > at all.
> >
>
>
> FWIW, I've been using M1 5W-30 and Mobil 1 filters in a '99 Camry V6 since
> 5K miles. I have 64K miles now.
> I stopped using M1 filters after I noticed that each time I parked the car
> for 3 weeks or longer, on startup I would hear a disconcerting mechanical
> whap-whap-whap noise from the innards of the engine for about 5 seconds
with
> very shaky idling for 20 sec . Didn't happen when I parked the car for 2
> weeks, but it would at 3 weeks.
> This occurred on three different occasions before I realized I should
maybe
> try another filter.
> I changed over to Toyota OEM filters (using Denso 90915-YZZB9 now), but
> still use the M1 5W-30 oil. The last time I parked it (this spring) for 17
> days, on restart it was fine. Normal startup, a little rough idle to begin
> with, but no knock. I'll be very curious to see what happens on the next 3
> week hiatus, which won't be for a while, unfortunately.
> I was attracted to the M1 filters due to the claimed single and multi-pass
> filtration efficiency and the better quality construction.
> I still don't know exactly what the problem was, but can only guess it to
be
> a slow bleed from the anti-drainback valve.
> BTW, I probably fall in the .01 % that you mentioned, in that I let the
car
> idle for 45 sec on starting cold, and generally very gently drive under
> 30MPH for the first mile (and take my time to get there) and 40 to 45 for
> the next 4 miles constant rate. One stop only during this time.

It could have had something to do with the filter. Hard to tell these days.
I had a Toyota Corolla for a while, and always used Toyota filters. They
just seemed like they were quality filters.

Wish they had a common testing lab to do tests on oil filters also. Flow
rate, filtering efficiency and capacity, etc.

On a cold day, like under 20, I idle for a couple of minutes, then from home
I can coast downhill for about 5 blocks to a stop light. From there to make
the lights its a slow ride, 30mph at first then 40, and a couple of miles
later its the highway, but I'm at normal temp by then. From work I'll idle a
couple of minutes, then drive slow for a while. If the highway is close by,
I'll let it warm up longer, but I do know enough not to be rough on a cold
engine.

I haven't seen anyone yet thats easier on a cold engine than me.