On Wed, 13 May 2009 12:28:56 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>
>There's a lot of focus on the oil change interval, but there are other
>things that kill vehicles as well. For example, many of the big 3 (can
>we still say big 3?) engines do just great with the manufacturer's
>recommended oil changes, but heaven help you if you ever let the engine
>overheat, even briefly. A leaky water pump, a faulty thermostat, or even
>a thermal switch that doesn't turn on the electric cooling fan, and
>you're looking at a cracked block. They should have a warning light with
>"$5000" on it instead of "TEMP" on these cars. A Honda or Toyota engine
>is much more able to tolerate occasional abuse. Of course no engine will
>last very long without coolant, but at least you won't crack the block
>if it overheats for a short time.
>
That's bullshit. You have to talk specific engines to make any such
case, and let real mechanics weigh in.

>A lot of the reliability stories for Japanese cars are not because
>they're more reliable under normal operating conditions with all
>scheduled service performed promptly, it's because they're able to
>better withstand owners that abuse them.

I have heard the apocryphal stories about Corollas going 200 miles
with no oil. Always by those who know squat about cars.
OTOH that Brit show - can't remember the name - beat the out
of a Toy pickup and couldn't kill it, so I don't entirely discount
what you're saying.

--Vic

 

Vic Smith wrote:

> I have heard the apocryphal stories about Corollas going 200 miles
> with no oil. Always by those who know squat about cars.
> OTOH that Brit show - can't remember the name - beat the out
> of a Toy pickup and couldn't kill it, so I don't entirely discount
> what you're saying.

My mechanic works on a lot of different cars. The horror stories of
short-lived vehicles always center around Ford and GM products that were
run without oil or coolant because the owner never checked them, and the
fluid levels were low for various reasons related to the engine design.

You ignore changing the oil or checking the coolant on a Toyota or
Honda, and you may slightly shorten the life of the engine, but you're
unlikely to have a catastrophic failure because oil consumption is
minimal, the cooling system is unlikely to malfunction, and the engine
block design has enough margin so that brief over-heating won't crack
the block. It's very different on a vehicle that can't tolerate ignored
maintenance because the engine burns oil, the water pump leaks coolant,
and over-heating quickly cracks or warps the block.

 

On Wed, 13 May 2009 14:21:12 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>Vic Smith wrote:
>
>> I have heard the apocryphal stories about Corollas going 200 miles
>> with no oil. Always by those who know squat about cars.
>> OTOH that Brit show - can't remember the name - beat the out
>> of a Toy pickup and couldn't kill it, so I don't entirely discount
>> what you're saying.
>
>My mechanic works on a lot of different cars. The horror stories of
>short-lived vehicles always center around Ford and GM products that were
>run without oil or coolant because the owner never checked them, and the
>fluid levels were low for various reasons related to the engine design.
>
>You ignore changing the oil or checking the coolant on a Toyota or
>Honda, and you may slightly shorten the life of the engine, but you're
>unlikely to have a catastrophic failure because oil consumption is
>minimal, the cooling system is unlikely to malfunction, and the engine
>block design has enough margin so that brief over-heating won't crack
>the block. It's very different on a vehicle that can't tolerate ignored
>maintenance because the engine burns oil, the water pump leaks coolant,
>and over-heating quickly cracks or warps the block.

Again, you offer no specifics. Might as well be Joe Schmoe talking in
the lottery ticket line. And there are well-known instances of
sludging and head gasket failures of specific and common Toyota
engines, most likely caused by lax fluid maintenance causing exactly
the failures you're speaking of. Don't know about Honda offhand.
OTOH, I've abused plenty of GM cars to the point where the lifters
were clacking or the radiators were almost dry with no catastrophe.
If you're going to make sweeping generalizations without specifics you
just come across as an American-car-bashing-Toyota-lover.
No doubt you are, but that doesn't mean I don't like you.

--Vic

 

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 13 May 2009 14:21:12 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Vic Smith wrote:
>>
>>> I have heard the apocryphal stories about Corollas going 200 miles
>>> with no oil. Always by those who know squat about cars.
>>> OTOH that Brit show - can't remember the name - beat the out
>>> of a Toy pickup and couldn't kill it, so I don't entirely discount
>>> what you're saying.
>> My mechanic works on a lot of different cars. The horror stories of
>> short-lived vehicles always center around Ford and GM products that were
>> run without oil or coolant because the owner never checked them, and the
>> fluid levels were low for various reasons related to the engine design.
>>
>> You ignore changing the oil or checking the coolant on a Toyota or
>> Honda, and you may slightly shorten the life of the engine, but you're
>> unlikely to have a catastrophic failure because oil consumption is
>> minimal, the cooling system is unlikely to malfunction, and the engine
>> block design has enough margin so that brief over-heating won't crack
>> the block. It's very different on a vehicle that can't tolerate ignored
>> maintenance because the engine burns oil, the water pump leaks coolant,
>> and over-heating quickly cracks or warps the block.
>
> Again, you offer no specifics. Might as well be Joe Schmoe talking in
> the lottery ticket line. And there are well-known instances of
> sludging and head gasket failures of specific and common Toyota
> engines, most likely caused by lax fluid maintenance causing exactly
> the failures you're speaking of. Don't know about Honda offhand.
> OTOH, I've abused plenty of GM cars to the point where the lifters
> were clacking or the radiators were almost dry with no catastrophe.
> If you're going to make sweeping generalizations without specifics you
> just come across as an American-car-bashing-Toyota-lover.
> No doubt you are, but that doesn't mean I don't like you.
>
> --Vic

Ummmm... it's a rare American car with 50K or more miles where the
lifters DON'T clack. I can always identify a GM product with a 2.8 V-6
derivative by the unique blatty exhaust sound and clickety-clack of the
lifters.

nate

--
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http://members.***.net/njnagel

 

SMS wrote:
> yoda wrote:
>
>> So, is this 18K/2 years thing really working out as well as a more
>> frequent service interval, statistically speaking? I see that this
>> thread is crossposted all over the place - lets say if we took
>> otherwise identical cars, and used the euro 18k/2 year thing on one,
>> and did the murican 5k thing on the other, would both cars drive as
>> well after 250K miles? I'm posting this from the acura group, and
>> getting hondas and acuras to go 250k is not unusual here in the
>> southern usa, where instant oil change places are everywhere, and it's
>> not considered a big deal to change the oil regularly (I.E. 5k or so).
>> And I know from my own experience of changing my own oil that there's
>> some pretty significant degradation in what comes out of the engine
>> after about 5K - I'd hate to have that stuff keeping my car ticking
>> for another 13K.
>
> There's a lot of focus on the oil change interval, but there are other
> things that kill vehicles as well. For example, many of the big 3 (can
> we still say big 3?) engines do just great with the manufacturer's
> recommended oil changes, but heaven help you if you ever let the engine
> overheat, even briefly. A leaky water pump, a faulty thermostat, or even
> a thermal switch that doesn't turn on the electric cooling fan, and
> you're looking at a cracked block. They should have a warning light with
> "$5000" on it instead of "TEMP" on these cars. A Honda or Toyota engine
> is much more able to tolerate occasional abuse. Of course no engine will
> last very long without coolant, but at least you won't crack the block
> if it overheats for a short time.

A car made for an intelligent driver will have a gauge instead of (or in
addition to) an idiot light, so that the driver can see that the engine
is running 20 degrees hotter than normal and will have a chance to
rectify the issue before it becomes critical.

Of course, most mfgrs. seem to think that the average driver is an
idiot, and for the most part, they're right.

That said, nothing beats old school cast iron. I lost a freeze plug on
the freeway on my '62 Stude one morning and it was dark out so the first
indication I had of a problem was the temp gauge starting to climb. By
the time I got it safely stopped the gauge was pegged and the engine was
dieseling. I had it towed home, replaced the freeze plug, changed the
oil. Ran just the same as it did before (like a raped ape.)

>
> A lot of the reliability stories for Japanese cars are not because
> they're more reliable under normal operating conditions with all
> scheduled service performed promptly, it's because they're able to
> better withstand owners that abuse them.

I dunno about that, for modern-ish cars I have found '80s VWs to be
remarkably durable, although I can't say as I've ever abused them. Had
240K miles on my Scirocco when I sold it and it ran like a new car (and
compression tested great the last time it was done, probably around 200K.)

Only reason I sold the car was because I was paying approximately the
value of the car in insurance every 6 mos. (was living in PG county.)
Now that I'm living in a much better area, I really wish I had it
back... what was I thinking? (of course, it would qualify as "antique"
now, but even so, it was my daily up until 2002...)

nate

--
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http://members.***.net/njnagel

 

Nate Nagel wrote:

> Ummmm... it's a rare American car with 50K or more miles where the
> lifters DON'T clack. I can always identify a GM product with a 2.8 V-6
> derivative by the unique blatty exhaust sound and clickety-clack of the
> lifters.

Almost like you could identify Chrysler products from the unique sound
of the starter.

 

On May 9, 1:01 pm, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 May 2009 08:51:43 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer <jon_banq...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On May 8, 8:29 am, Black Dragon <b...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> I know people who've had nothing but troubles with Toyota's and will
> >> never buy another.
>
> >The problem with Honda, Toyota, Acura, etc. is that the cylinder head
> >has so little material in it that if you experience even a momentary
> >overheating problem such as would be caused with say a fan switch
> >failure you're looking at a very expensive cylinder head rebuild.
> >Other manufactures have more material in the head and their heads can
> >often handle a brief over heating situation... not so with Honda,
> >Toyota or Acura. This FACT makes automotive repair shops tons of
> >money.
>
> >Do Honda, Toyota and Acura have advantages... certainly they do. They
> >have a much better fit and finish and I believe they hold their
> >suppliers to tighter tolerances.
>
> >I've had two Honda's. Both had cylinder head problems. I'd never buy
> >another Honda again.
>
> >A classic Saab 900 Turbo is a much better designed and engineered car.
> >The classic Saab 900 uses double wishbone for it's front suspension.
> >The only major weakness of the Saab 900 Turbo is a gearbox that can't
> >handle over 300 hp without being babied. The engine can easily be made
> >to output 450 hp. It's a far better car in every possible way compared
> >to a Honda... better ride, better handling, more room, better engine,
> >etc.
>
> >Jon Banquer
> >San Diego, CA


I Googled cylinder head problems to get a feel for what you mean on
the Hondas and Toyotas.

This site mentions a need to adjust the valves every 30,000 miles:
http://www.topix.com/forum/autos/hon...0QJR8P79FKMOET

I don't recall seeing that need for the Toyota Camry... or am I
mistaken?

Michael

 

Nate Nagel wrote:

<snip>

> A car made for an intelligent driver will have a gauge instead of (or in
> addition to) an idiot light, so that the driver can see that the engine
> is running 20 degrees hotter than normal and will have a chance to
> rectify the issue before it becomes critical.

I think they should have a gauge, a light, and an audible warning.
Gauges provide more information, but few drivers are constantly looking
at gauges.

> I dunno about that, for modern-ish cars I have found '80s VWs to be
> remarkably durable, although I can't say as I've ever abused them.

The VWs of that era had extremely durable engines (and bodies for that
matter). Of course you may have had to replace the alternator multiple
times, as well as various other bits and pieces, especially trim pieces
on the inside. I had three VWs, 1979 Rabbit, 1987 Fox, and 1991 Jetta.
Never an engine problem, but the 1979 had lots of other problems, and
the 1991 had one annoying problem with a sensor that was very hard for a
mechanic to diagnose.

 

On Wed, 13 May 2009 18:42:03 -0400, Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net>
wrote:

>Vic Smith wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 May 2009 14:21:12 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Vic Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have heard the apocryphal stories about Corollas going 200 miles
>>>> with no oil. Always by those who know squat about cars.
>>>> OTOH that Brit show - can't remember the name - beat the out
>>>> of a Toy pickup and couldn't kill it, so I don't entirely discount
>>>> what you're saying.
>>> My mechanic works on a lot of different cars. The horror stories of
>>> short-lived vehicles always center around Ford and GM products that were
>>> run without oil or coolant because the owner never checked them, and the
>>> fluid levels were low for various reasons related to the engine design.
>>>
>>> You ignore changing the oil or checking the coolant on a Toyota or
>>> Honda, and you may slightly shorten the life of the engine, but you're
>>> unlikely to have a catastrophic failure because oil consumption is
>>> minimal, the cooling system is unlikely to malfunction, and the engine
>>> block design has enough margin so that brief over-heating won't crack
>>> the block. It's very different on a vehicle that can't tolerate ignored
>>> maintenance because the engine burns oil, the water pump leaks coolant,
>>> and over-heating quickly cracks or warps the block.
>>
>> Again, you offer no specifics. Might as well be Joe Schmoe talking in
>> the lottery ticket line. And there are well-known instances of
>> sludging and head gasket failures of specific and common Toyota
>> engines, most likely caused by lax fluid maintenance causing exactly
>> the failures you're speaking of. Don't know about Honda offhand.
>> OTOH, I've abused plenty of GM cars to the point where the lifters
>> were clacking or the radiators were almost dry with no catastrophe.
>> If you're going to make sweeping generalizations without specifics you
>> just come across as an American-car-bashing-Toyota-lover.
>> No doubt you are, but that doesn't mean I don't like you.
>>
>> --Vic
>
>Ummmm... it's a rare American car with 50K or more miles where the
>lifters DON'T clack. I can always identify a GM product with a 2.8 V-6
>derivative by the unique blatty exhaust sound and clickety-clack of the
>lifters.
>
Do you know what dry lifters sound like? I do.
I'm not talking about "normal" lifter noise.
We were talking about low oil.
And your 50K miles comment is pure nonsense.
Actually that's too mild. Let's just say bullshit.
I had a 2.8 with 190k miles and lifters were just as quiet as when
I bought it with 32k miles.
Besides that I have a 3.1 with 140k miles with silent lifters.
And the 3.1 in the Corsica my recently kid junked had silent lifters
at 160k plus miles.
I'm talking warm, loaded with oil, not at start-up.
And I've heard plenty other 2.8/3.1's.
Don't confuse muffled exhaust sound with lifter noise.
That's a product of valving, compression and exhaust design.
BTW, long ago I could tell when a Pontiac pulled alongside by the
lifter clatter.
The 2.8/3.1 don't suffer from that. Unless they're ed up.
None of my 3 were.
If they are properly maintained and tuned those engines are virtually
silent.
You could put a glass of water on the kid's idling 3.1 intake manifold
and it wouldn't ripple. Mine always had a slight gallop.
You're a real 2.8/3.1 Chevy expert for a Porsche and Dodge Dart
jockey.
You like revving engines to 4k in neutral?
Yeah, I'll bet you hear the lifters then.
I can do that too. But I don't.

--Vic

 

SMS wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> A car made for an intelligent driver will have a gauge instead of (or
>> in addition to) an idiot light, so that the driver can see that the
>> engine is running 20 degrees hotter than normal and will have a chance
>> to rectify the issue before it becomes critical.
>
> I think they should have a gauge, a light, and an audible warning.
> Gauges provide more information, but few drivers are constantly looking
> at gauges.
>
>> I dunno about that, for modern-ish cars I have found '80s VWs to be
>> remarkably durable, although I can't say as I've ever abused them.
>
> The VWs of that era had extremely durable engines (and bodies for that
> matter). Of course you may have had to replace the alternator multiple
> times, as well as various other bits and pieces, especially trim pieces
> on the inside. I had three VWs, 1979 Rabbit, 1987 Fox, and 1991 Jetta.
> Never an engine problem, but the 1979 had lots of other problems, and
> the 1991 had one annoying problem with a sensor that was very hard for a
> mechanic to diagnose.

you almost never have to *replace* the alternator on one of those,
unless the bearings are going. Usually the brushes are worn out,
they're in a unit with the regulator which can be removed simply by
removing two screws on the back of the alternator.

That said, the one and only time I had an on-the-road alternator failure
in a VW, it was in my trusty 'roccet... about 20 miles outside of
Cleveland. While moving from Dearborn to Annapolis. Good times.
(well, actually, the light started flickering around Toledo... thought
I'd press on to Pittsburgh and fix it there, where I had friends and
family. Soon as we got past Toledo it started to rain...)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "***" to reply.
http://members.***.net/njnagel

 

On Wed, 13 May 2009 16:05:38 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>Nate Nagel wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> A car made for an intelligent driver will have a gauge instead of (or in
>> addition to) an idiot light, so that the driver can see that the engine
>> is running 20 degrees hotter than normal and will have a chance to
>> rectify the issue before it becomes critical.
>
>I think they should have a gauge, a light, and an audible warning.
>Gauges provide more information, but few drivers are constantly looking
>at gauges.
>
>> I dunno about that, for modern-ish cars I have found '80s VWs to be
>> remarkably durable, although I can't say as I've ever abused them.
>
>The VWs of that era had extremely durable engines (and bodies for that
>matter). Of course you may have had to replace the alternator multiple
>times, as well as various other bits and pieces, especially trim pieces
>on the inside. I had three VWs, 1979 Rabbit, 1987 Fox, and 1991 Jetta.
>Never an engine problem, but the 1979 had lots of other problems, and
>the 1991 had one annoying problem with a sensor that was very hard for a
>mechanic to diagnose.

There was Rabbit of that era that was a notorious ring burner. Might
have been 76-78. A workmate had one. Think I recall a class action
lawsuit against VW.

--Vic

 

Vic Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 13 May 2009 18:42:03 -0400, Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Vic Smith wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 May 2009 14:21:12 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Vic Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have heard the apocryphal stories about Corollas going 200 miles
>>>>> with no oil. Always by those who know squat about cars.
>>>>> OTOH that Brit show - can't remember the name - beat the out
>>>>> of a Toy pickup and couldn't kill it, so I don't entirely discount
>>>>> what you're saying.
>>>> My mechanic works on a lot of different cars. The horror stories of
>>>> short-lived vehicles always center around Ford and GM products that were
>>>> run without oil or coolant because the owner never checked them, and the
>>>> fluid levels were low for various reasons related to the engine design.
>>>>
>>>> You ignore changing the oil or checking the coolant on a Toyota or
>>>> Honda, and you may slightly shorten the life of the engine, but you're
>>>> unlikely to have a catastrophic failure because oil consumption is
>>>> minimal, the cooling system is unlikely to malfunction, and the engine
>>>> block design has enough margin so that brief over-heating won't crack
>>>> the block. It's very different on a vehicle that can't tolerate ignored
>>>> maintenance because the engine burns oil, the water pump leaks coolant,
>>>> and over-heating quickly cracks or warps the block.
>>> Again, you offer no specifics. Might as well be Joe Schmoe talking in
>>> the lottery ticket line. And there are well-known instances of
>>> sludging and head gasket failures of specific and common Toyota
>>> engines, most likely caused by lax fluid maintenance causing exactly
>>> the failures you're speaking of. Don't know about Honda offhand.
>>> OTOH, I've abused plenty of GM cars to the point where the lifters
>>> were clacking or the radiators were almost dry with no catastrophe.
>>> If you're going to make sweeping generalizations without specifics you
>>> just come across as an American-car-bashing-Toyota-lover.
>>> No doubt you are, but that doesn't mean I don't like you.
>>>
>>> --Vic
>> Ummmm... it's a rare American car with 50K or more miles where the
>> lifters DON'T clack. I can always identify a GM product with a 2.8 V-6
>> derivative by the unique blatty exhaust sound and clickety-clack of the
>> lifters.
>>
> Do you know what dry lifters sound like? I do.
> I'm not talking about "normal" lifter noise.
> We were talking about low oil.
> And your 50K miles comment is pure nonsense.
> Actually that's too mild. Let's just say bullshit.
> I had a 2.8 with 190k miles and lifters were just as quiet as when
> I bought it with 32k miles.
> Besides that I have a 3.1 with 140k miles with silent lifters.
> And the 3.1 in the Corsica my recently kid junked had silent lifters
> at 160k plus miles.
> I'm talking warm, loaded with oil, not at start-up.
> And I've heard plenty other 2.8/3.1's.
> Don't confuse muffled exhaust sound with lifter noise.
> That's a product of valving, compression and exhaust design.
> BTW, long ago I could tell when a Pontiac pulled alongside by the
> lifter clatter.
> The 2.8/3.1 don't suffer from that. Unless they're ed up.
> None of my 3 were.
> If they are properly maintained and tuned those engines are virtually
> silent.
> You could put a glass of water on the kid's idling 3.1 intake manifold
> and it wouldn't ripple. Mine always had a slight gallop.
> You're a real 2.8/3.1 Chevy expert for a Porsche and Dodge Dart
> jockey.
> You like revving engines to 4k in neutral?
> Yeah, I'll bet you hear the lifters then.
> I can do that too. But I don't.
>
> --Vic

They ALL sound like that, or at least enough to determine a pattern.
They've sounded like that for decades... I've been hearing that sound
since Celebrities and Fieros were new. I know what a dry lifter sounds
like, and that's what they sound like. The 3400 in my last company car
sounded like that and it was not driven easily but not abused either,
and got "by-the-book" maintenance. I certainly wasn't racing it... (but
it sounded like I was wherever I drove it, because I think they
neglected to put a muffler on it from the factory. Seriously, I have
never driven a full-sized sedan with such intrusive engine/exhaust
noise. and I picked it up from the dealer with less than 20 miles on
it. Fortunately at least this seems to have been rectified in the newer
versions - much better in both the power and noise departments.)

Which is another peeve. "by the book" is totally inadequate for many
cars, pretty much everyone qualifies as "severe service" but fleet
administrators refuse to recognize that and won't pay for anything
outside the "normal service" schedule. Kraut mfgrs. are at least honest
about service requirements and as a result get dinged for high
maintenance costs in comparison tests.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "***" to reply.
http://members.***.net/njnagel

 

On Wed, 13 May 2009 19:22:25 -0400, Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net>
wrote:

>
>They ALL sound like that, or at least enough to determine a pattern.
>They've sounded like that for decades... I've been hearing that sound
>since Celebrities and Fieros were new. I know what a dry lifter sounds
>like, and that's what they sound like.

You have never heard a dry lifter or you wouldn't say that.
You stepped right into that.

> The 3400 in my last company car
>sounded like that and it was not driven easily but not abused either,
>and got "by-the-book" maintenance. I certainly wasn't racing it... (but
>it sounded like I was wherever I drove it, because I think they
>neglected to put a muffler on it from the factory. Seriously, I have
>never driven a full-sized sedan with such intrusive engine/exhaust
>noise. and I picked it up from the dealer with less than 20 miles on
>it. Fortunately at least this seems to have been rectified in the newer
>versions - much better in both the power and noise departments.)
>
I don't know anything about company-provided 3400's.
Or any 3400.
Except you managed to up the steering wheel on yours.
That's all I know about it. Everything.
And I have no problem keeping my mouth shut about what I don't
know.
Since I put a few hundred thousand miles on 2.8/3.1's in the last 18
years, being as that's all I've driven, I do know about them.
They are quiet and the engine noise has not been intrusive in the
Celebrity, Corsica, and Lumina they've been in.
I don't care about Fieros. I'll bet "engine noise intrusion" is
significant when the damn thing is perched by your ear.
The Celebrity was initially the quietest car I've ever been in save a
Ford LTD. Noise intrusion increased with sound insulation age, but
that was road noise.
So when it comes to the 2.8/3.1 I can believe a guy constantly
bitching about his company-provided 3400 while extolling his old
Porsche, Studebaker and Dodge Dart, or my own good, experienced ears.
You lose.
Jesus, where is Shiden when you need him.

>Which is another peeve. "by the book" is totally inadequate for many
>cars, pretty much everyone qualifies as "severe service" but fleet
>administrators refuse to recognize that and won't pay for anything
>outside the "normal service" schedule. Kraut mfgrs. are at least honest
>about service requirements and as a result get dinged for high
>maintenance costs in comparison tests.
>

I guess that matters if you drive a company car you despise.
I don't have that problem.

--Vic

 

On Wed, 13 May 2009 18:47:10 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:

>> A lot of the reliability stories for Japanese cars are not because
>> they're more reliable under normal operating conditions with all
>> scheduled service performed promptly, it's because they're able to
>> better withstand owners that abuse them.
>
> I dunno about that, for modern-ish cars I have found '80s VWs to be
> remarkably durable,

April 1 was a few weeks ago.

My brand new '85 Jetta, a well designed, well engineered car was a DOG!
It cured me of ever wanting to own a European car ever again!

 

Nate Nagel wrote:

> That said, the one and only time I had an on-the-road alternator failure
> in a VW, it was in my trusty 'roccet... about 20 miles outside of
> Cleveland. While moving from Dearborn to Annapolis. Good times. (well,
> actually, the light started flickering around Toledo... thought I'd
> press on to Pittsburgh and fix it there, where I had friends and
> family. Soon as we got past Toledo it started to rain...)

My 1979 Rabbit seemed to eat alternators. It had a weird alternator that
wasn't the one that all the auto parts stores said would fit, the shaft
was a little longer. So I had to buy a replacement at the dealer. Then I
had the original rebuilt, and swapped them whenever one failed and had
the other rebuilt. I carried a spare with me. I think I had four
alternators in eight years.