On Oct 28, 12:17 pm, Hachiroku <Tru...@AE86.gts> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:47:25 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
> > Hachiroku wrote:
> >> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:46:56 -0700, bill wrote:
>
> >>> In the town where I live, there is a planned 500 MW windfarm. It
> >>>is being hotly disputed on NIMBY grounds. The most recent planned
> >>>nuclear power plant (seabrook) in the US was fully constructed and never
> >>>went operational due to environmentalism. This crap has got to stop.
>
> >> Are you in Mass by any chance? There was one that was killed about 15
> >> miles from where I live, and the company went further west to the next
> >> best site, where they are also meeting strong opposition.
>
> >> The funny thing is, the one posing the opposition are also the ones
> >> crying for independance from Foreign Oil and coal and nuclear power
> >> plants.
>
> >> Can't have it ALL ways, people!
>
> > That's for sure.
>
> > To clarify, the original Seabrook (Unit 1) was completed and is
> > operational today. It is Unit 2 that was never completed and later
> > canceled.
>
> > That said, nuclear power is the only interim option for energy
> > independence or at least a reduction in dependence on foreign sources of
> > fossil fuels.
>
> Wind power is excellent, and after the intial outlay, it's free.
> I don't know why the Cruchies/Granolas in Western Mass have such an
> aversion to it.
>
>
>
> > I'm afraid that we have lost our way and are doomed to a role of third
> > world status and already have made considerable progress in that
> > direction.
>
> > Sometimes, I think that the country would be better off under a benevolent
> > dictator than our current free for all form of government. At least we
> > would not be subject to continuous political bombardment that never seems
> > to end or ever produces anything of worth for that matter...
>
> > JT
>
> Problem is, WHO? Hitlary? BWAHAHAHA!
>
> Anyone who gets in there will either sway with his/her particular 'group',
> or not pay attention to anyone and probably end up power hungry.
>
> It's supposed to be Majority Rule, but the fact is, the Squeaky Wheel gets
> greased, and the Squeaky Wheel are usually the k00ks...

The squeaky wheels ARE the majority. We the people really are
this dumb. Power doens't corrupt, it attracts the corruptible. Big
Bill Clinton was murdering threats, raping interns and selling out
this country before he was even elected governor. who would want to
be president? Only scum would be willing to take the job.

 

On Oct 28, 12:17 pm, Hachiroku <Tru...@AE86.gts> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:47:25 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
> > Hachiroku wrote:
> >> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:46:56 -0700, bill wrote:
>
> >>> In the town where I live, there is a planned 500 MW windfarm. It
> >>>is being hotly disputed on NIMBY grounds. The most recent planned
> >>>nuclear power plant (seabrook) in the US was fully constructed and never
> >>>went operational due to environmentalism. This crap has got to stop.
>
> >> Are you in Mass by any chance? There was one that was killed about 15
> >> miles from where I live, and the company went further west to the next
> >> best site, where they are also meeting strong opposition.
>
> >> The funny thing is, the one posing the opposition are also the ones
> >> crying for independance from Foreign Oil and coal and nuclear power
> >> plants.
>
> >> Can't have it ALL ways, people!
>
> > That's for sure.
>
> > To clarify, the original Seabrook (Unit 1) was completed and is
> > operational today. It is Unit 2 that was never completed and later
> > canceled.
>
> > That said, nuclear power is the only interim option for energy
> > independence or at least a reduction in dependence on foreign sources of
> > fossil fuels.
>
> Wind power is excellent, and after the intial outlay, it's free.
> I don't know why the Cruchies/Granolas in Western Mass have such an
> aversion to it.
>
>
>
> > I'm afraid that we have lost our way and are doomed to a role of third
> > world status and already have made considerable progress in that
> > direction.
>
> > Sometimes, I think that the country would be better off under a benevolent
> > dictator than our current free for all form of government. At least we
> > would not be subject to continuous political bombardment that never seems
> > to end or ever produces anything of worth for that matter...
>
> > JT
>
> Problem is, WHO? Hitlary? BWAHAHAHA!
>
> Anyone who gets in there will either sway with his/her particular 'group',
> or not pay attention to anyone and probably end up power hungry.
>
> It's supposed to be Majority Rule, but the fact is, the Squeaky Wheel gets
> greased, and the Squeaky Wheel are usually the k00ks...

The squeaky wheels ARE the majority. We the people really are
this dumb. Power doens't corrupt, it attracts the corruptible. Big
Bill Clinton was murdering threats, raping interns and selling out
this country before he was even elected governor. who would want to
be president? Only scum would be willing to take the job.

 

On Oct 28, 12:14 pm, Hachiroku <Tru...@AE86.gts> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:08:15 -0700, bill wrote:
> > solution is easy. Drill in anwr to buy a little time, build
> > nuclear power plants to replace the coal and natural gas plants, Build
> > coal to liquid plants and gas to liquid plants to cover the next 30 or 50
> > years, and start heavy research on PHEVs while realigning our development
> > style to support public transportation. it's simple, it's feasible, and
> > it would work. we are not doing it for the same reason we aren't doing
> > anything else, we are simply too dumb.
>
> The only problem with these ideas, Bill:
>
> They exhibit Common Sense. It'sll never fly.
>
> And tell me the Democrats aren't just as connected to the oil companies as
> the Republicans.
>
> At the end of the day, in the smokey back rooms and the brandy flowing,
> it's all just the Good Old Boys Club...

you give them too much credit. if they had the levels of control
and foresight you are crediting them with, there would be no reason
for concern. This situation happened not because some plutocrats
decided it should happen, it happened because a bunch of small minded
little maggots no different from you and I decided that the
alternatives SHOULDN'T happen. floats.

 

On Oct 28, 12:14 pm, Hachiroku <Tru...@AE86.gts> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:08:15 -0700, bill wrote:
> > solution is easy. Drill in anwr to buy a little time, build
> > nuclear power plants to replace the coal and natural gas plants, Build
> > coal to liquid plants and gas to liquid plants to cover the next 30 or 50
> > years, and start heavy research on PHEVs while realigning our development
> > style to support public transportation. it's simple, it's feasible, and
> > it would work. we are not doing it for the same reason we aren't doing
> > anything else, we are simply too dumb.
>
> The only problem with these ideas, Bill:
>
> They exhibit Common Sense. It'sll never fly.
>
> And tell me the Democrats aren't just as connected to the oil companies as
> the Republicans.
>
> At the end of the day, in the smokey back rooms and the brandy flowing,
> it's all just the Good Old Boys Club...

you give them too much credit. if they had the levels of control
and foresight you are crediting them with, there would be no reason
for concern. This situation happened not because some plutocrats
decided it should happen, it happened because a bunch of small minded
little maggots no different from you and I decided that the
alternatives SHOULDN'T happen. floats.

 

Enrico Fermi wrote:
> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
> news:1i1Vi.290291$ax1.99282@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>> Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:46:56 -0700, bill wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> In the town where I live, there is a planned 500 MW windfarm. It
>>>> is being hotly disputed on NIMBY grounds. The most recent planned
>>>> nuclear
>>>> power plant (seabrook) in the US was fully constructed and never went
>>>> operational due to environmentalism. This crap has got to stop.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you in Mass by any chance? There was one that was killed about 15
>>> miles from where I live, and the company went further west to the next
>>> best site, where they are also meeting strong opposition. The funny thing
>>> is, the one posing the opposition are also the ones crying
>>> for independance from Foreign Oil and coal and nuclear power plants.
>>> Can't have it ALL ways, people!
>>>
>>
>>
>> That's for sure.
>>
>> To clarify, the original Seabrook (Unit 1) was completed and is
>> operational today. It is Unit 2 that was never completed and later
>> canceled.
>>
>> That said, nuclear power is the only interim option for energy
>> independence or at least a reduction in dependence on foreign sources of
>> fossil fuels.
>>
>> I'm afraid that we have lost our way and are doomed to a role of third
>> world status and already have made considerable progress in that
>> direction.
>>
>> Sometimes, I think that the country would be better off under a benevolent
>> dictator than our current free for all form of government. At least we
>> would not be subject to continuous political bombardment that never seems
>> to end or ever produces anything of worth for that matter...
>>
>> JT
>
> "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be
> the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under
> omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep,
> his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our
> own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of
> their own conscience."
> -- C.S. Lewis

Lewis underestimates the all encompassing nature of greed. Genetics
suggests an endless supply of wannabe "robber barons" and history show
no record of any "satiation point."

Lewis described his younger self as "very angry with God for not
existing". Apparently when he discovered God he then channeled his
anger towards what he saw in Church on Sunday ("those who torment us for
our own good will torment us without end").

And sure enough, in a rigged game with that pesky mortality always
playing in the background he finds plenty to agree. And disagree.

 

Enrico Fermi wrote:
> "Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in message
> news:1i1Vi.290291$ax1.99282@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>> Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:46:56 -0700, bill wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> In the town where I live, there is a planned 500 MW windfarm. It
>>>> is being hotly disputed on NIMBY grounds. The most recent planned
>>>> nuclear
>>>> power plant (seabrook) in the US was fully constructed and never went
>>>> operational due to environmentalism. This crap has got to stop.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you in Mass by any chance? There was one that was killed about 15
>>> miles from where I live, and the company went further west to the next
>>> best site, where they are also meeting strong opposition. The funny thing
>>> is, the one posing the opposition are also the ones crying
>>> for independance from Foreign Oil and coal and nuclear power plants.
>>> Can't have it ALL ways, people!
>>>
>>
>>
>> That's for sure.
>>
>> To clarify, the original Seabrook (Unit 1) was completed and is
>> operational today. It is Unit 2 that was never completed and later
>> canceled.
>>
>> That said, nuclear power is the only interim option for energy
>> independence or at least a reduction in dependence on foreign sources of
>> fossil fuels.
>>
>> I'm afraid that we have lost our way and are doomed to a role of third
>> world status and already have made considerable progress in that
>> direction.
>>
>> Sometimes, I think that the country would be better off under a benevolent
>> dictator than our current free for all form of government. At least we
>> would not be subject to continuous political bombardment that never seems
>> to end or ever produces anything of worth for that matter...
>>
>> JT
>
> "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be
> the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under
> omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep,
> his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our
> own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of
> their own conscience."
> -- C.S. Lewis

Lewis underestimates the all encompassing nature of greed. Genetics
suggests an endless supply of wannabe "robber barons" and history show
no record of any "satiation point."

Lewis described his younger self as "very angry with God for not
existing". Apparently when he discovered God he then channeled his
anger towards what he saw in Church on Sunday ("those who torment us for
our own good will torment us without end").

And sure enough, in a rigged game with that pesky mortality always
playing in the background he finds plenty to agree. And disagree.

 

Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:47:25 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>>
>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:46:56 -0700, bill wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> In the town where I live, there is a planned 500 MW windfarm. It
>>>> is being hotly disputed on NIMBY grounds. The most recent planned
>>>> nuclear power plant (seabrook) in the US was fully constructed and never
>>>> went operational due to environmentalism. This crap has got to stop.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you in Mass by any chance? There was one that was killed about 15
>>> miles from where I live, and the company went further west to the next
>>> best site, where they are also meeting strong opposition.
>>>
>>> The funny thing is, the one posing the opposition are also the ones
>>> crying for independance from Foreign Oil and coal and nuclear power
>>> plants.
>>>
>>> Can't have it ALL ways, people!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That's for sure.
>>
>> To clarify, the original Seabrook (Unit 1) was completed and is
>> operational today. It is Unit 2 that was never completed and later
>> canceled.
>>
>> That said, nuclear power is the only interim option for energy
>> independence or at least a reduction in dependence on foreign sources of
>> fossil fuels.
>
>
> Wind power is excellent, and after the intial outlay, it's free.
> I don't know why the Cruchies/Granolas in Western Mass have such an
> aversion to it.

It will be widely used as soon as the multinationals and other corporate
"trickle up" ideologists can figure out a way to corner the market and
sell it. At a price you can afford of course.

 

Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:47:25 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>>
>> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:46:56 -0700, bill wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> In the town where I live, there is a planned 500 MW windfarm. It
>>>> is being hotly disputed on NIMBY grounds. The most recent planned
>>>> nuclear power plant (seabrook) in the US was fully constructed and never
>>>> went operational due to environmentalism. This crap has got to stop.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you in Mass by any chance? There was one that was killed about 15
>>> miles from where I live, and the company went further west to the next
>>> best site, where they are also meeting strong opposition.
>>>
>>> The funny thing is, the one posing the opposition are also the ones
>>> crying for independance from Foreign Oil and coal and nuclear power
>>> plants.
>>>
>>> Can't have it ALL ways, people!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That's for sure.
>>
>> To clarify, the original Seabrook (Unit 1) was completed and is
>> operational today. It is Unit 2 that was never completed and later
>> canceled.
>>
>> That said, nuclear power is the only interim option for energy
>> independence or at least a reduction in dependence on foreign sources of
>> fossil fuels.
>
>
> Wind power is excellent, and after the intial outlay, it's free.
> I don't know why the Cruchies/Granolas in Western Mass have such an
> aversion to it.

It will be widely used as soon as the multinationals and other corporate
"trickle up" ideologists can figure out a way to corner the market and
sell it. At a price you can afford of course.

 

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

> Sometimes, I think that the country would be better off under a
> benevolent dictator than our current free for all form of government. At
> least we would not be subject to continuous political bombardment that
> never seems to end or ever produces anything of worth for that matter...

George...., is that you?????

 

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

> Sometimes, I think that the country would be better off under a
> benevolent dictator than our current free for all form of government. At
> least we would not be subject to continuous political bombardment that
> never seems to end or ever produces anything of worth for that matter...

George...., is that you?????

 

> | you give them too much credit. if they had the levels of
> | control and foresight you are crediting them with, there would be
> | no reason for concern. This situation happened not because some
> | plutocrats decided it should happen, it happened because a bunch of
> | small minded little maggots no different from you and I decided
> | that the alternatives SHOULDN'T happen. floats.
>
> Hmm. Perhaps it'd be worth taking a shot at doing what needs to be
> done on whatever scale you can.
>
> Pick something you (or you plus whoever you can talk into working with
> you) have a reasonable shot at success. Just /do/ it! It won't be a
> nuclear power plant (probably) but it'll be better than nothing.
>
> Me? I build solar heating panels (good ones) to keep people warm
> without electricity/oil/gas. It's not much, but it's something -
> better than nothing.
>
> Were you waiting for permission? Or are we all sitting around waiting
> for someone /else/ to do the job?

Building cogen plants for residential heating/ grid tied
electric. Also working on a PHEV retrofit for existing cars meself.
Course, one of those will prolly land me in jail, but so be it.
Course, if I and a million like me all did the best we could do,
it still wouldn't amount to one nuclear reactors worth of difference,
but hey, like you said, it's what I can do.

 

> | you give them too much credit. if they had the levels of
> | control and foresight you are crediting them with, there would be
> | no reason for concern. This situation happened not because some
> | plutocrats decided it should happen, it happened because a bunch of
> | small minded little maggots no different from you and I decided
> | that the alternatives SHOULDN'T happen. floats.
>
> Hmm. Perhaps it'd be worth taking a shot at doing what needs to be
> done on whatever scale you can.
>
> Pick something you (or you plus whoever you can talk into working with
> you) have a reasonable shot at success. Just /do/ it! It won't be a
> nuclear power plant (probably) but it'll be better than nothing.
>
> Me? I build solar heating panels (good ones) to keep people warm
> without electricity/oil/gas. It's not much, but it's something -
> better than nothing.
>
> Were you waiting for permission? Or are we all sitting around waiting
> for someone /else/ to do the job?

Building cogen plants for residential heating/ grid tied
electric. Also working on a PHEV retrofit for existing cars meself.
Course, one of those will prolly land me in jail, but so be it.
Course, if I and a million like me all did the best we could do,
it still wouldn't amount to one nuclear reactors worth of difference,
but hey, like you said, it's what I can do.

 

bill wrote:

| you give them too much credit. if they had the levels of
| control and foresight you are crediting them with, there would be
| no reason for concern. This situation happened not because some
| plutocrats decided it should happen, it happened because a bunch of
| small minded little maggots no different from you and I decided
| that the alternatives SHOULDN'T happen. floats.

Hmm. Perhaps it'd be worth taking a shot at doing what needs to be
done on whatever scale you can.

Pick something you (or you plus whoever you can talk into working with
you) have a reasonable shot at success. Just /do/ it! It won't be a
nuclear power plant (probably) but it'll be better than nothing.

Me? I build solar heating panels (good ones) to keep people warm
without electricity/oil/gas. It's not much, but it's something -
better than nothing.

Were you waiting for permission? Or are we all sitting around waiting
for someone /else/ to do the job?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

 

bill wrote:

| you give them too much credit. if they had the levels of
| control and foresight you are crediting them with, there would be
| no reason for concern. This situation happened not because some
| plutocrats decided it should happen, it happened because a bunch of
| small minded little maggots no different from you and I decided
| that the alternatives SHOULDN'T happen. floats.

Hmm. Perhaps it'd be worth taking a shot at doing what needs to be
done on whatever scale you can.

Pick something you (or you plus whoever you can talk into working with
you) have a reasonable shot at success. Just /do/ it! It won't be a
nuclear power plant (probably) but it'll be better than nothing.

Me? I build solar heating panels (good ones) to keep people warm
without electricity/oil/gas. It's not much, but it's something -
better than nothing.

Were you waiting for permission? Or are we all sitting around waiting
for someone /else/ to do the job?

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

 

F.H. wrote:
> Enrico Fermi wrote:

>> "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may
>> be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons
>> than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may
>> sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those
>> who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they
>> do so with the approval of their own conscience."
>> -- C.S. Lewis
>
> Lewis underestimates the all encompassing nature of greed. Genetics
> suggests an endless supply of wannabe "robber barons" and history show
> no record of any "satiation point."
>
> Lewis described his younger self as "very angry with God for not
> existing". Apparently when he discovered God he then channeled his
> anger towards what he saw in Church on Sunday ("those who torment us for
> our own good will torment us without end").
>
> And sure enough, in a rigged game with that pesky mortality always
> playing in the background he finds plenty to agree. And disagree.

Good an evil are human inventions. It has been a long time since I read
C.S.Lewis. He did seem to have suffered the deeper implications of god
and morality.

If anyone that has read Lewis and hasn't read 'The Screwtape Letters', I
highly recommend it...