On Sat, 06 May 2006 20:34:41 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 May 2006 00:15:58 GMT, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:49:18 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>But 46 %??????
>>>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>news:dpdg521r5odhb7bbclsvrhj6c5fmaogvdm@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>>>>>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>>>>
>>>>>For more infl go to:
>>>>>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
>>>> below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
>>>> test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.
>>
>>First, quit top posting.
>>
>>Second.
>>
>>Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:
>>
>>
>> CR EPA %Diff
>>Civic EX manual 22 30 -27
>>Civic EX auto 18 30 -40
>>Civic Hybrid auto 26 49 -47
>>Jetta diesel auto 24 35 -30
>>Jetta gas auto 17 22 -23
>>Impreza auto 16 23 -32
>>
>>
>> CR EPA %Diff
>>Civic EX manual 40 38 + 5
>>Civic EX auto 43 40 + 8
>>Civic Hybrid auto 47 51 - 8
>>Jetta diesel auto 46 42 +10
>>Jetta gas auto 33 30 +10
>>Impreza auto 30 28 + 7
>>
>>So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
>>EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
>>this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.
>
>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...

Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
Chicago city bus.



>
>
>>
>>Conclusion:
>>
>>So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
>>gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>
>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>
>>
>>

 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 05:09:59 GMT, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 06 May 2006 20:34:41 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:
>

>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>
>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>Chicago city bus.

what kind of TDI?

If its not one of the aforementioned vw's, or a dodge (mercedies)
sprinter, its one of the old-style engines. Those are the nasty smoky
ones. As far as i know, just the VW car engines, and the sprinter's
are the only modern ones available in the US, and so are the ones not
smoking.

>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Conclusion:
>>>
>>>So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
>>>gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>>
>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>>
>>>
>>>

 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 05:09:59 GMT, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 06 May 2006 20:34:41 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:
>

>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>
>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>Chicago city bus.

what kind of TDI?

If its not one of the aforementioned vw's, or a dodge (mercedies)
sprinter, its one of the old-style engines. Those are the nasty smoky
ones. As far as i know, just the VW car engines, and the sprinter's
are the only modern ones available in the US, and so are the ones not
smoking.

>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Conclusion:
>>>
>>>So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
>>>gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>>
>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>>
>>>
>>>

 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 05:09:59 GMT, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 06 May 2006 20:34:41 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:
>

>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>
>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>Chicago city bus.

what kind of TDI?

If its not one of the aforementioned vw's, or a dodge (mercedies)
sprinter, its one of the old-style engines. Those are the nasty smoky
ones. As far as i know, just the VW car engines, and the sprinter's
are the only modern ones available in the US, and so are the ones not
smoking.

>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Conclusion:
>>>
>>>So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
>>>gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>>
>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>>
>>>
>>>

 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 01:38:13 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 May 2006 05:09:59 GMT, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 06 May 2006 20:34:41 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:
>>
>
>>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>>
>>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>>Chicago city bus.
>
>what kind of TDI?
>
>If its not one of the aforementioned vw's, or a dodge (mercedies)
>sprinter, its one of the old-style engines. Those are the nasty smoky
>ones. As far as i know, just the VW car engines, and the sprinter's
>are the only modern ones available in the US, and so are the ones not
>smoking.

I'm not an expert on VWs, but the one I saw last week was a VW car,
maybe a Jetta. Don't know what year.

I also met a guy a couple years ago who had Beetle turbo-diesels for
himself and his girlfriend. He said that about every 25K the cars
would start slowing down and he would know it was time to clean the
carbon out. This entailed extensive disassembly of the intake system
and special tools he had made to clean the various parts. He said he
could do it in about six hours now and I saw his three-ring binder of
photos and notes documenting the process. The amount of carbon that
came out was frightening but at last it wasn't floating around in the
atmosphere.

He said that there were two grades of diesel, the better grade being
hard to find (and no doubt more expensive.) The closest station was
about 20 miles away which was near where his girlfriend worked but no
use to him normally. He indicated that this better fuel helped, but
didn't solve the problem.

The new diesels are generally cleaner than the old ones, but I think
they still produce a lot of particles, especially if they are
older/less well maintained.

 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 01:38:13 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 May 2006 05:09:59 GMT, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 06 May 2006 20:34:41 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:
>>
>
>>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>>
>>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>>Chicago city bus.
>
>what kind of TDI?
>
>If its not one of the aforementioned vw's, or a dodge (mercedies)
>sprinter, its one of the old-style engines. Those are the nasty smoky
>ones. As far as i know, just the VW car engines, and the sprinter's
>are the only modern ones available in the US, and so are the ones not
>smoking.

I'm not an expert on VWs, but the one I saw last week was a VW car,
maybe a Jetta. Don't know what year.

I also met a guy a couple years ago who had Beetle turbo-diesels for
himself and his girlfriend. He said that about every 25K the cars
would start slowing down and he would know it was time to clean the
carbon out. This entailed extensive disassembly of the intake system
and special tools he had made to clean the various parts. He said he
could do it in about six hours now and I saw his three-ring binder of
photos and notes documenting the process. The amount of carbon that
came out was frightening but at last it wasn't floating around in the
atmosphere.

He said that there were two grades of diesel, the better grade being
hard to find (and no doubt more expensive.) The closest station was
about 20 miles away which was near where his girlfriend worked but no
use to him normally. He indicated that this better fuel helped, but
didn't solve the problem.

The new diesels are generally cleaner than the old ones, but I think
they still produce a lot of particles, especially if they are
older/less well maintained.

 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 01:38:13 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 May 2006 05:09:59 GMT, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 06 May 2006 20:34:41 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:
>>
>
>>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>>
>>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>>Chicago city bus.
>
>what kind of TDI?
>
>If its not one of the aforementioned vw's, or a dodge (mercedies)
>sprinter, its one of the old-style engines. Those are the nasty smoky
>ones. As far as i know, just the VW car engines, and the sprinter's
>are the only modern ones available in the US, and so are the ones not
>smoking.

I'm not an expert on VWs, but the one I saw last week was a VW car,
maybe a Jetta. Don't know what year.

I also met a guy a couple years ago who had Beetle turbo-diesels for
himself and his girlfriend. He said that about every 25K the cars
would start slowing down and he would know it was time to clean the
carbon out. This entailed extensive disassembly of the intake system
and special tools he had made to clean the various parts. He said he
could do it in about six hours now and I saw his three-ring binder of
photos and notes documenting the process. The amount of carbon that
came out was frightening but at last it wasn't floating around in the
atmosphere.

He said that there were two grades of diesel, the better grade being
hard to find (and no doubt more expensive.) The closest station was
about 20 miles away which was near where his girlfriend worked but no
use to him normally. He indicated that this better fuel helped, but
didn't solve the problem.

The new diesels are generally cleaner than the old ones, but I think
they still produce a lot of particles, especially if they are
older/less well maintained.

 

whats wrong with chicago city buses?!? (the company I work for makes them....
)

Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>>>But 46 %??????
>>>>>
>[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>
>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>
>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>Chicago city bus.
>
>>>Conclusion:
>>>
>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200605/1

 

whats wrong with chicago city buses?!? (the company I work for makes them....
)

Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>>>But 46 %??????
>>>>>
>[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>
>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>
>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>Chicago city bus.
>
>>>Conclusion:
>>>
>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200605/1

 

whats wrong with chicago city buses?!? (the company I work for makes them....
)

Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>>>But 46 %??????
>>>>>
>[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>
>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>
>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>Chicago city bus.
>
>>>Conclusion:
>>>
>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200605/1

 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 17:45:30 GMT, "loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe>
wrote:

>whats wrong with chicago city buses?!? (the company I work for makes them....
>)
>

Well, probably no worse than any other diesel city bus, but what comes
out of their tail pipes sometimes (often) is pretty nasty.


>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>>>>But 46 %??????
>>>>>>
>>[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>>
>>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>>
>>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>>Chicago city bus.
>>
>>>>Conclusion:
>>>>
>>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 17:45:30 GMT, "loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe>
wrote:

>whats wrong with chicago city buses?!? (the company I work for makes them....
>)
>

Well, probably no worse than any other diesel city bus, but what comes
out of their tail pipes sometimes (often) is pretty nasty.


>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>>>>But 46 %??????
>>>>>>
>>[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>>
>>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>>
>>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>>Chicago city bus.
>>
>>>>Conclusion:
>>>>
>>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 17:45:30 GMT, "loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe>
wrote:

>whats wrong with chicago city buses?!? (the company I work for makes them....
>)
>

Well, probably no worse than any other diesel city bus, but what comes
out of their tail pipes sometimes (often) is pretty nasty.


>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>>>>But 46 %??????
>>>>>>
>>[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>>>
>>>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...
>>
>>Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
>>costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
>>more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
>>but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
>>Chicago city bus.
>>
>>>>Conclusion:
>>>>
>>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

 

There are lots of changes in the works as the diesel engine companies work
through their emissions credits for 05 and 06.

07 engines from all heavy engine manufacturers will be running much hotter
and will have much more extensive particulate filters.

However, its still up to the end user (ie the Transit authorities) to make
sure their vehicles are maintained properly.... and lots of our california
customers have gone to CNG (compressed Natural gas) engines, which have 0
emissions.

t

Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>whats wrong with chicago city buses?!? (the company I work for makes them....
>>)
>
>Well, probably no worse than any other diesel city bus, but what comes
>out of their tail pipes sometimes (often) is pretty nasty.
>
>>>>>>But 46 %??????
>>>>>>>
>[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200605/1

 

There are lots of changes in the works as the diesel engine companies work
through their emissions credits for 05 and 06.

07 engines from all heavy engine manufacturers will be running much hotter
and will have much more extensive particulate filters.

However, its still up to the end user (ie the Transit authorities) to make
sure their vehicles are maintained properly.... and lots of our california
customers have gone to CNG (compressed Natural gas) engines, which have 0
emissions.

t

Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>whats wrong with chicago city buses?!? (the company I work for makes them....
>>)
>
>Well, probably no worse than any other diesel city bus, but what comes
>out of their tail pipes sometimes (often) is pretty nasty.
>
>>>>>>But 46 %??????
>>>>>>>
>[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>>>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>>>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200605/1