Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

Steve, but not the Australian Steve wrote:
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:445875F4.629F7A86@spam.now...
>> From the article...
>>
>> "Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference."
>>
>> My '88 Honda Civic with 244K mi gets a very real world 37 mpg. What I
>> find
>> extraordinary is that even cars, such as hybrids, engineered with the
>> "latest and greatest" technology still are not that much better. It makes
>> me wonder what have car manufacturers been doing for the last 18 years?
>>
>> Eric
>
>
> IIRC, Honda Civics and the CRX HF used to be advertised as getting close to
> 60 mpg in the mid-late 80's.
>
> As far as what happened, safety features add weight. The market demands
> comfort and comfort features add weight.
>
>

I had 2 CRX HF's. The 1st was bought new & averaged 50MPG over 50,000
Miles.
The 2nd was used, & averaged 45MPG.

Currently driving a 94 Civic VX. 43+MPG over 23,000 Miles. All cars
were equipped
with A/C & Cruise control.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:49:18 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

>But 46 %??????
>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:dpdg521r5odhb7bbclsvrhj6c5fmaogvdm@4ax.com.. .
>> On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>>>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>>
>>>For more infl go to:
>>>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>>>
>>
>> The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
>> below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
>> test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.

First, quit top posting.

Second.

Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:


CR EPA %Diff
Civic EX manual 22 30 -27
Civic EX auto 18 30 -40
Civic Hybrid auto 26 49 -47
Jetta diesel auto 24 35 -30
Jetta gas auto 17 22 -23
Impreza auto 16 23 -32


CR EPA %Diff
Civic EX manual 40 38 + 5
Civic EX auto 43 40 + 8
Civic Hybrid auto 47 51 - 8
Jetta diesel auto 46 42 +10
Jetta gas auto 33 30 +10
Impreza auto 30 28 + 7

So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.

Conclusion:

So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.

OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:49:18 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

>But 46 %??????
>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:dpdg521r5odhb7bbclsvrhj6c5fmaogvdm@4ax.com.. .
>> On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>>>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>>
>>>For more infl go to:
>>>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>>>
>>
>> The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
>> below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
>> test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.

First, quit top posting.

Second.

Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:


CR EPA %Diff
Civic EX manual 22 30 -27
Civic EX auto 18 30 -40
Civic Hybrid auto 26 49 -47
Jetta diesel auto 24 35 -30
Jetta gas auto 17 22 -23
Impreza auto 16 23 -32


CR EPA %Diff
Civic EX manual 40 38 + 5
Civic EX auto 43 40 + 8
Civic Hybrid auto 47 51 - 8
Jetta diesel auto 46 42 +10
Jetta gas auto 33 30 +10
Impreza auto 30 28 + 7

So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.

Conclusion:

So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.

OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:49:18 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

>But 46 %??????
>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:dpdg521r5odhb7bbclsvrhj6c5fmaogvdm@4ax.com.. .
>> On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>>>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>>
>>>For more infl go to:
>>>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>>>
>>
>> The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
>> below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
>> test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.

First, quit top posting.

Second.

Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:


CR EPA %Diff
Civic EX manual 22 30 -27
Civic EX auto 18 30 -40
Civic Hybrid auto 26 49 -47
Jetta diesel auto 24 35 -30
Jetta gas auto 17 22 -23
Impreza auto 16 23 -32


CR EPA %Diff
Civic EX manual 40 38 + 5
Civic EX auto 43 40 + 8
Civic Hybrid auto 47 51 - 8
Jetta diesel auto 46 42 +10
Jetta gas auto 33 30 +10
Impreza auto 30 28 + 7

So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.

Conclusion:

So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.

OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 00:15:58 GMT, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:49:18 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>But 46 %??????
>>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:dpdg521r5odhb7bbclsvrhj6c5fmaogvdm@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>>>>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>>>
>>>>For more infl go to:
>>>>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
>>> below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
>>> test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.
>
>First, quit top posting.
>
>Second.
>
>Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:
>
>
> CR EPA %Diff
>Civic EX manual 22 30 -27
>Civic EX auto 18 30 -40
>Civic Hybrid auto 26 49 -47
>Jetta diesel auto 24 35 -30
>Jetta gas auto 17 22 -23
>Impreza auto 16 23 -32
>
>
> CR EPA %Diff
>Civic EX manual 40 38 + 5
>Civic EX auto 43 40 + 8
>Civic Hybrid auto 47 51 - 8
>Jetta diesel auto 46 42 +10
>Jetta gas auto 33 30 +10
>Impreza auto 30 28 + 7
>
>So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
>EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
>this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.

And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...


>
>Conclusion:
>
>So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
>gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>
>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>
>
>

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 00:15:58 GMT, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:49:18 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>But 46 %??????
>>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:dpdg521r5odhb7bbclsvrhj6c5fmaogvdm@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>>>>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>>>
>>>>For more infl go to:
>>>>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
>>> below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
>>> test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.
>
>First, quit top posting.
>
>Second.
>
>Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:
>
>
> CR EPA %Diff
>Civic EX manual 22 30 -27
>Civic EX auto 18 30 -40
>Civic Hybrid auto 26 49 -47
>Jetta diesel auto 24 35 -30
>Jetta gas auto 17 22 -23
>Impreza auto 16 23 -32
>
>
> CR EPA %Diff
>Civic EX manual 40 38 + 5
>Civic EX auto 43 40 + 8
>Civic Hybrid auto 47 51 - 8
>Jetta diesel auto 46 42 +10
>Jetta gas auto 33 30 +10
>Impreza auto 30 28 + 7
>
>So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
>EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
>this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.

And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...


>
>Conclusion:
>
>So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
>gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>
>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>
>
>

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Sun, 07 May 2006 00:15:58 GMT, Gordon McGrew
<RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:49:18 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>But 46 %??????
>>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>news:dpdg521r5odhb7bbclsvrhj6c5fmaogvdm@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>>>>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>>>
>>>>For more infl go to:
>>>>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
>>> below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
>>> test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.
>
>First, quit top posting.
>
>Second.
>
>Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:
>
>
> CR EPA %Diff
>Civic EX manual 22 30 -27
>Civic EX auto 18 30 -40
>Civic Hybrid auto 26 49 -47
>Jetta diesel auto 24 35 -30
>Jetta gas auto 17 22 -23
>Impreza auto 16 23 -32
>
>
> CR EPA %Diff
>Civic EX manual 40 38 + 5
>Civic EX auto 43 40 + 8
>Civic Hybrid auto 47 51 - 8
>Jetta diesel auto 46 42 +10
>Jetta gas auto 33 30 +10
>Impreza auto 30 28 + 7
>
>So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
>EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
>this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.

And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...


>
>Conclusion:
>
>So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
>gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>
>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>
>
>

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:b3gq52lgsm4ubvsdvt1baq5cg17aor5leo@4ax.com...
>
> And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...

IN and of itself, nothing. But in some areas it can be hard to find and is
currently more expensive than "regular". So if you can get better mileage
with "regular", all the better.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:b3gq52lgsm4ubvsdvt1baq5cg17aor5leo@4ax.com...
>
> And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...

IN and of itself, nothing. But in some areas it can be hard to find and is
currently more expensive than "regular". So if you can get better mileage
with "regular", all the better.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:b3gq52lgsm4ubvsdvt1baq5cg17aor5leo@4ax.com...
>
> And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...

IN and of itself, nothing. But in some areas it can be hard to find and is
currently more expensive than "regular". So if you can get better mileage
with "regular", all the better.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

flobert wrote:

> Secondly, whilst the EPA test methods are well known, I've not seen
> the conditions for the CR test reported. Sooo, lets say they've got a
> 500lb driver, carrying 3 paving stones in the back, its a manual car
> (we'll be nice) and he revs the bollocks off it at lights, lots of
> wheel spin as he drops the clutch, uses the accelerator, right up
> until the last second, then slams ont he brakes, ravving the engine as
> he does so in neutral. , oh, and he keeps it irevving as pfast as
> possible. all this on underinflated tyres, and in a busy tailback of
> stop+go traffic. Thats the CR test, and to be honest, 26mpg is f-ing
> amazing in those conditions.

While I'd like to think CR wouldn't be THAT deliberate, I do wonder just
how the cars are being driven, and if CR just _might_ have a small
incentive to produce 'shocking' numbers.

FWIW, I've had no trouble exceeding the EPA ratings for both city and
freewy mileage with my last 3 cars. IMO, CR must be driving very
agressively, perhaps not so differently from the manner you describe.

-Greg

--
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it’s just a goddamned piece
of paper!" - George W. Bush.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

flobert wrote:

> Secondly, whilst the EPA test methods are well known, I've not seen
> the conditions for the CR test reported. Sooo, lets say they've got a
> 500lb driver, carrying 3 paving stones in the back, its a manual car
> (we'll be nice) and he revs the bollocks off it at lights, lots of
> wheel spin as he drops the clutch, uses the accelerator, right up
> until the last second, then slams ont he brakes, ravving the engine as
> he does so in neutral. , oh, and he keeps it irevving as pfast as
> possible. all this on underinflated tyres, and in a busy tailback of
> stop+go traffic. Thats the CR test, and to be honest, 26mpg is f-ing
> amazing in those conditions.

While I'd like to think CR wouldn't be THAT deliberate, I do wonder just
how the cars are being driven, and if CR just _might_ have a small
incentive to produce 'shocking' numbers.

FWIW, I've had no trouble exceeding the EPA ratings for both city and
freewy mileage with my last 3 cars. IMO, CR must be driving very
agressively, perhaps not so differently from the manner you describe.

-Greg

--
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it’s just a goddamned piece
of paper!" - George W. Bush.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

flobert wrote:

> Secondly, whilst the EPA test methods are well known, I've not seen
> the conditions for the CR test reported. Sooo, lets say they've got a
> 500lb driver, carrying 3 paving stones in the back, its a manual car
> (we'll be nice) and he revs the bollocks off it at lights, lots of
> wheel spin as he drops the clutch, uses the accelerator, right up
> until the last second, then slams ont he brakes, ravving the engine as
> he does so in neutral. , oh, and he keeps it irevving as pfast as
> possible. all this on underinflated tyres, and in a busy tailback of
> stop+go traffic. Thats the CR test, and to be honest, 26mpg is f-ing
> amazing in those conditions.

While I'd like to think CR wouldn't be THAT deliberate, I do wonder just
how the cars are being driven, and if CR just _might_ have a small
incentive to produce 'shocking' numbers.

FWIW, I've had no trouble exceeding the EPA ratings for both city and
freewy mileage with my last 3 cars. IMO, CR must be driving very
agressively, perhaps not so differently from the manner you describe.

-Greg

--
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it’s just a goddamned piece
of paper!" - George W. Bush.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Sat, 06 May 2006 20:34:41 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 May 2006 00:15:58 GMT, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:49:18 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>But 46 %??????
>>>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>news:dpdg521r5odhb7bbclsvrhj6c5fmaogvdm@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>>>>>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>>>>
>>>>>For more infl go to:
>>>>>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
>>>> below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
>>>> test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.
>>
>>First, quit top posting.
>>
>>Second.
>>
>>Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:
>>
>>
>> CR EPA %Diff
>>Civic EX manual 22 30 -27
>>Civic EX auto 18 30 -40
>>Civic Hybrid auto 26 49 -47
>>Jetta diesel auto 24 35 -30
>>Jetta gas auto 17 22 -23
>>Impreza auto 16 23 -32
>>
>>
>> CR EPA %Diff
>>Civic EX manual 40 38 + 5
>>Civic EX auto 43 40 + 8
>>Civic Hybrid auto 47 51 - 8
>>Jetta diesel auto 46 42 +10
>>Jetta gas auto 33 30 +10
>>Impreza auto 30 28 + 7
>>
>>So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
>>EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
>>this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.
>
>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...

Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
Chicago city bus.



>
>
>>
>>Conclusion:
>>
>>So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
>>gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>
>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>
>>
>>

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Sat, 06 May 2006 20:34:41 -0400, flobert <nomail@here.NOT> wrote:

>On Sun, 07 May 2006 00:15:58 GMT, Gordon McGrew
><RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 03 May 2006 14:49:18 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>>But 46 %??????
>>>"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>news:dpdg521r5odhb7bbclsvrhj6c5fmaogvdm@4ax.com ...
>>>> On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>>>>>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>>>>
>>>>>For more infl go to:
>>>>>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
>>>> below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
>>>> test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.
>>
>>First, quit top posting.
>>
>>Second.
>>
>>Consider these city milage ratings reported in the same issue:
>>
>>
>> CR EPA %Diff
>>Civic EX manual 22 30 -27
>>Civic EX auto 18 30 -40
>>Civic Hybrid auto 26 49 -47
>>Jetta diesel auto 24 35 -30
>>Jetta gas auto 17 22 -23
>>Impreza auto 16 23 -32
>>
>>
>> CR EPA %Diff
>>Civic EX manual 40 38 + 5
>>Civic EX auto 43 40 + 8
>>Civic Hybrid auto 47 51 - 8
>>Jetta diesel auto 46 42 +10
>>Jetta gas auto 33 30 +10
>>Impreza auto 30 28 + 7
>>
>>So, while it is true that the Civic Hybrid falls farther short of the
>>EPA estimates than some other cars, it does get the best milage in
>>this pack and you don't have to burn diesel.
>
>And burning diesel is worse than gasolene because...

Well, from a practical point of view it is harder to find and lately
costs more. From an environmental standpoint, diesel exhaust has much
more particlulates (soot). I know that they say they are cleaner now
but I still see TDI's spewing smoke proportionally equivalent to a
Chicago city bus.



>
>
>>
>>Conclusion:
>>
>>So, if you want an environmentally conscious vehicle that gets great
>>gas milage, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>
>>OTOH, if you like to whine because the world isn't perfect and you
>>aren't getting what you were promised, buy a Civic Hybrid.
>>
>>
>>