Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Tue, 02 May 2006 20:48:06 GMT, Elliot Richmond
<xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:

>On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>
>>For more infl go to:
>>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>>
>The article makes it sound as though this is all a scheme cooked by
>automobile marketing departments. it may well be, but it is my
>understanding that auto makers must use the EPA estimates and must
>test the cars the way EPA says to test them. No exceptions.
>
>In addition, anybody who has done some of reading and research has
>known for years that the real-world gas mileage will be lower than EPA
>estimates. How much lower depends on a lot of variables, which is why
>the EPA test conditions are strictly specified.
>
>Anyway, that's they way I heard it.

me too. i did email them aand ask who they felt were keeping it a
secret, considering I found out via the EPA's wesite about 5 yeasr
ago. i then asked how they did espect the tsts to be conducted so that
its repeatable, accurate, and comparatable. Its no good running half a
dozen cars around a track if you've got two different guys splitting
the cars, some done when its raining, and others on a hot sunny day
around 3pm.

Journalistic integrity - they've heard of it, I guess...

>
>Elliot
>Itinerant Curmudgeon

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>
>For more infl go to:
>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>

The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>
>For more infl go to:
>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>

The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

On Tue, 02 May 2006 13:43:52 GMT, "edb" <edb352@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

>Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>
>For more infl go to:
>http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>

The CR city milage test is pretty brutal. It can easily be as far
below typical city milage as the EPA is high. Not to say that the CR
test isn't realistic, it is just realistic of the worst case scenario.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:mive52hgftj8a6hknalpvb4a14v7nj5iih@4ax.com...
> Wow, its a real secret. i knew about it before I even moved to the Us.
>
> I can't wait for whats going to be a horror story when gas rices in
> the US actually become high (as in, more in line with the rest of the
> world - doubling the price should get it there).
>
> Maybe then we'll see less of the ugly land-liners with their huge lazy
> engines, and slushboxes.

Actually, the US is about in the middle. CNN reported some countries
(albeit oil producing ones) are below $1.00
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/19/news...bal_gasprices/.

Ford said they did see an increase in non-SUV sales and a dip in truck sales
so I suspect your last comment is already becoming reality
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050200678.html.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:mive52hgftj8a6hknalpvb4a14v7nj5iih@4ax.com...
> Wow, its a real secret. i knew about it before I even moved to the Us.
>
> I can't wait for whats going to be a horror story when gas rices in
> the US actually become high (as in, more in line with the rest of the
> world - doubling the price should get it there).
>
> Maybe then we'll see less of the ugly land-liners with their huge lazy
> engines, and slushboxes.

Actually, the US is about in the middle. CNN reported some countries
(albeit oil producing ones) are below $1.00
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/19/news...bal_gasprices/.

Ford said they did see an increase in non-SUV sales and a dip in truck sales
so I suspect your last comment is already becoming reality
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050200678.html.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"flobert" <nomail@here.NOT> wrote in message
news:mive52hgftj8a6hknalpvb4a14v7nj5iih@4ax.com...
> Wow, its a real secret. i knew about it before I even moved to the Us.
>
> I can't wait for whats going to be a horror story when gas rices in
> the US actually become high (as in, more in line with the rest of the
> world - doubling the price should get it there).
>
> Maybe then we'll see less of the ugly land-liners with their huge lazy
> engines, and slushboxes.

Actually, the US is about in the middle. CNN reported some countries
(albeit oil producing ones) are below $1.00
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/19/news...bal_gasprices/.

Ford said they did see an increase in non-SUV sales and a dip in truck sales
so I suspect your last comment is already becoming reality
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050200678.html.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

edb wrote:
>
> Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>
> For more infl go to:
> http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html

From the article...

"Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference."

My '88 Honda Civic with 244K mi gets a very real world 37 mpg. What I find
extraordinary is that even cars, such as hybrids, engineered with the
"latest and greatest" technology still are not that much better. It makes
me wonder what have car manufacturers been doing for the last 18 years?

Eric

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

edb wrote:
>
> Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>
> For more infl go to:
> http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html

From the article...

"Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference."

My '88 Honda Civic with 244K mi gets a very real world 37 mpg. What I find
extraordinary is that even cars, such as hybrids, engineered with the
"latest and greatest" technology still are not that much better. It makes
me wonder what have car manufacturers been doing for the last 18 years?

Eric

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

edb wrote:
>
> Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>
> For more infl go to:
> http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html

From the article...

"Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference."

My '88 Honda Civic with 244K mi gets a very real world 37 mpg. What I find
extraordinary is that even cars, such as hybrids, engineered with the
"latest and greatest" technology still are not that much better. It makes
me wonder what have car manufacturers been doing for the last 18 years?

Eric

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:445875F4.629F7A86@spam.now...
> From the article...
>
> "Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference."
>
> My '88 Honda Civic with 244K mi gets a very real world 37 mpg. What I
> find
> extraordinary is that even cars, such as hybrids, engineered with the
> "latest and greatest" technology still are not that much better. It makes
> me wonder what have car manufacturers been doing for the last 18 years?
>
> Eric


IIRC, Honda Civics and the CRX HF used to be advertised as getting close to
60 mpg in the mid-late 80's.

As far as what happened, safety features add weight. The market demands
comfort and comfort features add weight.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:445875F4.629F7A86@spam.now...
> From the article...
>
> "Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference."
>
> My '88 Honda Civic with 244K mi gets a very real world 37 mpg. What I
> find
> extraordinary is that even cars, such as hybrids, engineered with the
> "latest and greatest" technology still are not that much better. It makes
> me wonder what have car manufacturers been doing for the last 18 years?
>
> Eric


IIRC, Honda Civics and the CRX HF used to be advertised as getting close to
60 mpg in the mid-late 80's.

As far as what happened, safety features add weight. The market demands
comfort and comfort features add weight.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:445875F4.629F7A86@spam.now...
> From the article...
>
> "Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference."
>
> My '88 Honda Civic with 244K mi gets a very real world 37 mpg. What I
> find
> extraordinary is that even cars, such as hybrids, engineered with the
> "latest and greatest" technology still are not that much better. It makes
> me wonder what have car manufacturers been doing for the last 18 years?
>
> Eric


IIRC, Honda Civics and the CRX HF used to be advertised as getting close to
60 mpg in the mid-late 80's.

As far as what happened, safety features add weight. The market demands
comfort and comfort features add weight.

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:445875F4.629F7A86@spam.now...
> edb wrote:
>>
>> Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>
>> For more infl go to:
>> http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>
> From the article...
>
> "Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference."
>
> My '88 Honda Civic with 244K mi gets a very real world 37 mpg. What I
> find
> extraordinary is that even cars, such as hybrids, engineered with the
> "latest and greatest" technology still are not that much better. It makes
> me wonder what have car manufacturers been doing for the last 18 years?
>
> Eric

This gets into the question of "what kind of service?" If it's 37 mpg on a
flat 65 mph highway, that's decent. If it's on a 75 mph freeway, that's
pretty good indeed. If it's in town, that's phenomenal for a conventional
gasoline power train and awful for a hybrid. If it's on snow covered roads,
mysterious men in black trench coats will come to learn your secret.

Nobody ever took "your mileage may vary" seriously until their mileage
varied ;-)

Mike

Re: Pain At The Pump: Government Gas Secrets
 

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote in message news:445875F4.629F7A86@spam.now...
> edb wrote:
>>
>> Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
>> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference.
>>
>> For more infl go to:
>> http://www.wesh.com/painatthepump/9141621/detail.html
>
> From the article...
>
> "Honda claims its hybrid Civic sedan gets 48 mpg in the city. Consumer
> Reports found it only gets 26 mpg -- a 46 percent difference."
>
> My '88 Honda Civic with 244K mi gets a very real world 37 mpg. What I
> find
> extraordinary is that even cars, such as hybrids, engineered with the
> "latest and greatest" technology still are not that much better. It makes
> me wonder what have car manufacturers been doing for the last 18 years?
>
> Eric

This gets into the question of "what kind of service?" If it's 37 mpg on a
flat 65 mph highway, that's decent. If it's on a 75 mph freeway, that's
pretty good indeed. If it's in town, that's phenomenal for a conventional
gasoline power train and awful for a hybrid. If it's on snow covered roads,
mysterious men in black trench coats will come to learn your secret.

Nobody ever took "your mileage may vary" seriously until their mileage
varied ;-)

Mike