Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
10-30-2005, 01:09 AM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
In article <C_OdnSiq0YT4svneRVn-gg@speakeasy.net>,
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> > I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
> > new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
> > than ever, a statement which I stand behind.
>
> ok, the bar is raised. doesn't mean they all achieve the same margin
> above that bar though.
yes, but the engine is designed *to that bar*. Not to anything above it.
All the engine requires is the SAE rating. Period.
Now, that being said, is it good to go above and beyond that bar?
Maybe.
Where is the cost/benefit analysis? Where is the point of diminishing
returns?
Should one use the lower priced oil and go 3K miles between changes, or
should one use the higher price/name brand oil (with possibly increased
"margin above the bar") with longer change intervals?
jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> > I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
> > new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
> > than ever, a statement which I stand behind.
>
> ok, the bar is raised. doesn't mean they all achieve the same margin
> above that bar though.
yes, but the engine is designed *to that bar*. Not to anything above it.
All the engine requires is the SAE rating. Period.
Now, that being said, is it good to go above and beyond that bar?
Maybe.
Where is the cost/benefit analysis? Where is the point of diminishing
returns?
Should one use the lower priced oil and go 3K miles between changes, or
should one use the higher price/name brand oil (with possibly increased
"margin above the bar") with longer change intervals?
10-30-2005, 06:34 AM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Drive out west and try to find it
"Henri" <henri_latour@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:KWQ8f.336679$oW2.80546@pd7tw1no...
> Hey!
> Herring chokers might have it, but you very rarely see 5W20.
I'm not in New Brunswick, that's where you find Herring Chokers. Maybe
that's your problem, looking in the wrong location <g>.
>Wal-Mart has
> just started to carry it in bulk oil, Canadian Tire did not have it, and
> most aftermarket auto supply i.e. Partssource, auto value etc do not have
> it. They will order it for you but it is not carried as normal stock. Any
> how its a premium price when you can find it 5W30 does a better job
> anyhow.
It's been available here since before December of 2000, when I did my first
oil change on my 2001 Accord. Then it was expensive (close to $5.00 a litre)
since then it has come down in price. Even in April of 2001 a case of 5W20
could be purchased from the Ford dealers in town for $17.00.
10-30-2005, 01:17 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil- damage?
Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <C_OdnSiq0YT4svneRVn-gg@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
>>>new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
>>>than ever, a statement which I stand behind.
>>
>>ok, the bar is raised. doesn't mean they all achieve the same margin
>>above that bar though.
>
>
> yes, but the engine is designed *to that bar*. Not to anything above it.
[hypothetically] if the engine were able to be in a non-wear situation
as opposed to a wear situation based on improved lube, would the engine
not benefit? even though it's already a highly wear resistant motor?
>
> All the engine requires is the SAE rating. Period.
that's the minimum. detroit [sae] only cares about 100k miles. and
most motors can do that within their wear tolerance, even on crappy oil.
>
> Now, that being said, is it good to go above and beyond that bar?
>
> Maybe.
>
> Where is the cost/benefit analysis? Where is the point of diminishing
> returns?
good question. for a [detroit] manufacturer, anything over 100k is
diminished returns. honda otoh built their reputation on reliability
and longevity.
>
> Should one use the lower priced oil and go 3K miles between changes, or
> should one use the higher price/name brand oil (with possibly increased
> "margin above the bar") with longer change intervals?
>
based on my experience with leaky oil seals, /definitely/ go with the
better oil and the longer service interval. the lube economics are the
same but the service issues are reduced.
> In article <C_OdnSiq0YT4svneRVn-gg@speakeasy.net>,
> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
>>>new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
>>>than ever, a statement which I stand behind.
>>
>>ok, the bar is raised. doesn't mean they all achieve the same margin
>>above that bar though.
>
>
> yes, but the engine is designed *to that bar*. Not to anything above it.
[hypothetically] if the engine were able to be in a non-wear situation
as opposed to a wear situation based on improved lube, would the engine
not benefit? even though it's already a highly wear resistant motor?
>
> All the engine requires is the SAE rating. Period.
that's the minimum. detroit [sae] only cares about 100k miles. and
most motors can do that within their wear tolerance, even on crappy oil.
>
> Now, that being said, is it good to go above and beyond that bar?
>
> Maybe.
>
> Where is the cost/benefit analysis? Where is the point of diminishing
> returns?
good question. for a [detroit] manufacturer, anything over 100k is
diminished returns. honda otoh built their reputation on reliability
and longevity.
>
> Should one use the lower priced oil and go 3K miles between changes, or
> should one use the higher price/name brand oil (with possibly increased
> "margin above the bar") with longer change intervals?
>
based on my experience with leaky oil seals, /definitely/ go with the
better oil and the longer service interval. the lube economics are the
same but the service issues are reduced.
10-30-2005, 01:40 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
seems to be lots of knowledge about oil here
have an opinion on Mobil 1
i currently use Mobil 1 5w20 or 10w30 in '93 Civic Si
with mobil 1 filter or motorcraft or puralator
is there a better oil solution
TIA
rob
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q5T8f.2560$iv3.316@trnddc08...
> jim beam wrote:
>
> > bottom line: yes, this stuff comes out of the same factory, and yes,
> > some brands may be the same. but not /all/ brands are the same, and not
> > all products from any particular factory are the same.
> >
>
>
> The point is that Valvoline, Quaker State, Castrol etc. are not ipso
> facto better than Exxon, Shell, Texaco, Chevron or other gas station
> brand oils.
>
> I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
> new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
> than ever, a statement which I stand behind. I also said that the
> ConocoPhillips brands do appear to be exactly the same product in
> different bottles.
>
> Shell continues to have slightly different formulations for most of
> their Shell, Quaker State and Pennzoil branded oils, but the differences
> are becoming less meaningful all the time.
>
> I am also quite certain about the Motorcraft-Conoco connection as
> opposed to a Motorcraft-Chevron connection.
>
> John
have an opinion on Mobil 1
i currently use Mobil 1 5w20 or 10w30 in '93 Civic Si
with mobil 1 filter or motorcraft or puralator
is there a better oil solution
TIA
rob
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q5T8f.2560$iv3.316@trnddc08...
> jim beam wrote:
>
> > bottom line: yes, this stuff comes out of the same factory, and yes,
> > some brands may be the same. but not /all/ brands are the same, and not
> > all products from any particular factory are the same.
> >
>
>
> The point is that Valvoline, Quaker State, Castrol etc. are not ipso
> facto better than Exxon, Shell, Texaco, Chevron or other gas station
> brand oils.
>
> I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
> new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
> than ever, a statement which I stand behind. I also said that the
> ConocoPhillips brands do appear to be exactly the same product in
> different bottles.
>
> Shell continues to have slightly different formulations for most of
> their Shell, Quaker State and Pennzoil branded oils, but the differences
> are becoming less meaningful all the time.
>
> I am also quite certain about the Motorcraft-Conoco connection as
> opposed to a Motorcraft-Chevron connection.
>
> John
10-30-2005, 02:34 PM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil -...
The 5w20 oils of today from any of the major brands are all going to do
you a good job in Honda engines that require this weight. If you want
to go extended drain intervals it is best to have a used oil analysis
done. That will guide you better than anything as it will give you an
oil life expectancy that is fairly accurate.
Also, there is no real need to go to full synthetic oil except under the
most severe conditions. There is an excellent oil additive called LC20
(LubeControl20) that is made in Texas and has been around for years.
Some of the most respected people in the oil analysis business as well
as countless customers swear by this stuff. A few ounces added to your
oil and you can use dino as if it were a synthetic (and at a much
cheaper cost overall). In fact, quite a few motorists go 10K with just
dino and LC.
I personally will use Havoline 5w20 in my Honda Ridgeline and LC20 and
change oil by the oil life monitor. I still have the factory fill in my
Ridge but other owners have reported the OLM will show service due at
15% oil life expectancy (somewhere between 5-7K depending on driving
habits). To be sure that the oil and the OLM are in synch, I will have
an analysis done on my first or second change. This is really the only
way to tell if your monitor is accurate and if the engine likes the oil
you choose to use.
MARTY
you a good job in Honda engines that require this weight. If you want
to go extended drain intervals it is best to have a used oil analysis
done. That will guide you better than anything as it will give you an
oil life expectancy that is fairly accurate.
Also, there is no real need to go to full synthetic oil except under the
most severe conditions. There is an excellent oil additive called LC20
(LubeControl20) that is made in Texas and has been around for years.
Some of the most respected people in the oil analysis business as well
as countless customers swear by this stuff. A few ounces added to your
oil and you can use dino as if it were a synthetic (and at a much
cheaper cost overall). In fact, quite a few motorists go 10K with just
dino and LC.
I personally will use Havoline 5w20 in my Honda Ridgeline and LC20 and
change oil by the oil life monitor. I still have the factory fill in my
Ridge but other owners have reported the OLM will show service due at
15% oil life expectancy (somewhere between 5-7K depending on driving
habits). To be sure that the oil and the OLM are in synch, I will have
an analysis done on my first or second change. This is really the only
way to tell if your monitor is accurate and if the engine likes the oil
you choose to use.
MARTY
10-30-2005, 05:43 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
Gordon Zola wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:59:27 GMT, "hondaman" <jeffscomp@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> not all motor oils are OK. there are differences. i wouldn't go to the
>> dollar store and buy whatever cheapo brand they have and think it's going to
>> protect my engine in cold weather. if you want your engine to start knocking
>> go ahead and use whatever generic made is cheapest.
>
> Oil will not cause knocking. That is caused by gas that has too low an
> octane number for your engine.
Oil can cause knocking if the grade is too thin. Different knocking,
like main bearings.
You wont have too many problems in the USA but you will in hotter climes
like on the equator maybe.
Smart people use a militiary grade oil in Australia, because most oils
specified for the usa market is too thin for the local market. Reverse
problem
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:59:27 GMT, "hondaman" <jeffscomp@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> not all motor oils are OK. there are differences. i wouldn't go to the
>> dollar store and buy whatever cheapo brand they have and think it's going to
>> protect my engine in cold weather. if you want your engine to start knocking
>> go ahead and use whatever generic made is cheapest.
>
> Oil will not cause knocking. That is caused by gas that has too low an
> octane number for your engine.
Oil can cause knocking if the grade is too thin. Different knocking,
like main bearings.
You wont have too many problems in the USA but you will in hotter climes
like on the equator maybe.
Smart people use a militiary grade oil in Australia, because most oils
specified for the usa market is too thin for the local market. Reverse
problem
10-30-2005, 08:48 PM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:43:40 +1100, Jacko <fastamail@fastmail.com.au>
wrote:
>Oil can cause knocking if the grade is too thin. Different knocking,
>like main bearings.
Even on modern computerized engines?
J.
wrote:
>Oil can cause knocking if the grade is too thin. Different knocking,
>like main bearings.
Even on modern computerized engines?
J.
11-02-2005, 03:15 AM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
JXStern wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:43:40 +1100, Jacko <fastamail@fastmail.com.au>
> wrote:
>> Oil can cause knocking if the grade is too thin. Different knocking,
>> like main bearings.
>
> Even on modern computerized engines?
>
> J.
>
>
I dont think a computer can pick up mechanical knocking, though it can
pick up low oil pressure ? Maybe on some...
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:43:40 +1100, Jacko <fastamail@fastmail.com.au>
> wrote:
>> Oil can cause knocking if the grade is too thin. Different knocking,
>> like main bearings.
>
> Even on modern computerized engines?
>
> J.
>
>
I dont think a computer can pick up mechanical knocking, though it can
pick up low oil pressure ? Maybe on some...
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