Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in message
news:Ho2dnVaNEMkGRP_eRVn-gg@sedona.net...
>
> You also can't find a snow shovel in Phoenix :-) However, chains are
> common enough because the mountains are a popular destination.
LOL! I suppose that's true. I'm hoping I don't have to bother with digging
(pardon the pun <g>) out the snow shovels this year.
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
shell oil is generic. i would insist on castrol or valvoline or at least
another well known brand. lots of oil change places use cheap quality gas
station brand oil which isn't as good as the major brands. that should be
your main concern. your engine is relatively new now but over time that
cheap oil may take a toll on it.
-jeff
"Llatikcuf" <Llatikcuf@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130554302.540371.101430@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> Cool, thanks.
>
> -Nate
>
another well known brand. lots of oil change places use cheap quality gas
station brand oil which isn't as good as the major brands. that should be
your main concern. your engine is relatively new now but over time that
cheap oil may take a toll on it.
-jeff
"Llatikcuf" <Llatikcuf@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130554302.540371.101430@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
> Cool, thanks.
>
> -Nate
>
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil- damage?
hondaman wrote:
> shell oil is generic. i would insist on castrol or valvoline or at least
> another well known brand. lots of oil change places use cheap quality gas
> station brand oil which isn't as good as the major brands. that should be
> your main concern. your engine is relatively new now but over time that
> cheap oil may take a toll on it.
>
>
> -jeff
You sir really do not know what you are talking about. The image that
gas station brand oils are somehow inferior is a result of years of
marketing dollars and has no correlation to product quality.
Did you know, for example, that Shell owns the Wolf's Head, Quaker State
and Pennzoil brands and has for many years now? Did you know that BP
owns Castrol? Did you know that Honda brand 5W-20 oil from your
dealership is the same stuff as is also sold as Exxon Superflo 5W-20?
Did you know that the Chevron Supreme/Texaco Havoline twins (really the
same company and the same oil) are two of the most highly regarded
conventional oils made? Do you know that Kendall GT1, Union 76,
Phillips TropArtic, Conoco and Motorcraft motor oils are all the same
product manufactured by ConocoPhillps and put into different bottles?
Do you know that the recent GF-4/SM oil standards have kicked up the
performance requirements for motor oils dramatically and that as a
result the performance differences between branded oils today are the
smallest they have been in history?
Have a look at the forums on www.bobistheoilguy.com sometime if you want
to learn some things about oil.
The only real difference between specialty brand oils and "gas station"
brand oils are the hundreds of millions of dollars spent marketing the
specialty brands to easily led minds. It cracks me up that there are
Kendall loyalists who wouldn't be caught dead putting lowly Phillips
TropArtic oil in their cars and instead pay a premium for Kendall ....
suckers!
John
> shell oil is generic. i would insist on castrol or valvoline or at least
> another well known brand. lots of oil change places use cheap quality gas
> station brand oil which isn't as good as the major brands. that should be
> your main concern. your engine is relatively new now but over time that
> cheap oil may take a toll on it.
>
>
> -jeff
You sir really do not know what you are talking about. The image that
gas station brand oils are somehow inferior is a result of years of
marketing dollars and has no correlation to product quality.
Did you know, for example, that Shell owns the Wolf's Head, Quaker State
and Pennzoil brands and has for many years now? Did you know that BP
owns Castrol? Did you know that Honda brand 5W-20 oil from your
dealership is the same stuff as is also sold as Exxon Superflo 5W-20?
Did you know that the Chevron Supreme/Texaco Havoline twins (really the
same company and the same oil) are two of the most highly regarded
conventional oils made? Do you know that Kendall GT1, Union 76,
Phillips TropArtic, Conoco and Motorcraft motor oils are all the same
product manufactured by ConocoPhillps and put into different bottles?
Do you know that the recent GF-4/SM oil standards have kicked up the
performance requirements for motor oils dramatically and that as a
result the performance differences between branded oils today are the
smallest they have been in history?
Have a look at the forums on www.bobistheoilguy.com sometime if you want
to learn some things about oil.
The only real difference between specialty brand oils and "gas station"
brand oils are the hundreds of millions of dollars spent marketing the
specialty brands to easily led minds. It cracks me up that there are
Kendall loyalists who wouldn't be caught dead putting lowly Phillips
TropArtic oil in their cars and instead pay a premium for Kendall ....
suckers!
John
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil- damage?
John Horner wrote:
> hondaman wrote:
>
>> shell oil is generic. i would insist on castrol or valvoline or at
>> least another well known brand. lots of oil change places use cheap
>> quality gas station brand oil which isn't as good as the major brands.
>> that should be your main concern. your engine is relatively new now
>> but over time that cheap oil may take a toll on it.
>>
>>
>> -jeff
>
>
>
> You sir really do not know what you are talking about. The image that
> gas station brand oils are somehow inferior is a result of years of
> marketing dollars and has no correlation to product quality.
>
> Did you know, for example, that Shell owns the Wolf's Head, Quaker State
> and Pennzoil brands and has for many years now? Did you know that BP
> owns Castrol? Did you know that Honda brand 5W-20 oil from your
> dealership is the same stuff as is also sold as Exxon Superflo 5W-20?
> Did you know that the Chevron Supreme/Texaco Havoline twins (really the
> same company and the same oil) are two of the most highly regarded
> conventional oils made? Do you know that Kendall GT1, Union 76,
> Phillips TropArtic, Conoco and Motorcraft motor oils are all the same
> product manufactured by ConocoPhillps and put into different bottles?
hold on a second john. many different products come out of the same
factory, but it doesn't mean they have the same composition. oil is not
a good subject for the layman because he/she doesn't have analysis tools
laying about in the kitchen, but a similar product on which people often
/do/ have experience is paint. most paint sold here comes from the same
few factories. there are /many/ different brands, even though the
producers are the same. BUT, compositions between brands are frequently
very different. take opacity for instance where you're trying to paint
over crayon marks in the kids room. if you've ever been in the
situation where one brand covers the marks in one or two coats, but
another takes 3 coats and /still/ won't adequately cover, you'll know
what i mean.
now, regarding oils, motorcraft brand oil is /supposed/ to be a high
quality oil based on chevron. and the analysis shown in bitog confirms
inorganic content consistent with that. BUT, i'm here to assure you
that in my 16 year old civic, that oil pisses through seals like there's
no tomorrow. i mean, you literally watch that stuff drip out. but if i
use castrol gtx, all my seals [after a couple of weeks at any rate]
start to seal again. the additives in castrol that cause that are not
the inorganics that conveniently show up in spark analysis so commonly
used by bitog adherents - they're the /organic/ compounds, the
plasticizers, the swelling agents, that motorcraft evidently doesn't
have, or at least, not in sufficient quantity to be effective.
what other organics are so important? the viscosity index modifiers!
again, there is a crude test for this used in standard analysis, but it
doesn't identify quantity or types of compounds used and the results can
be distorted by other factors. getting the picture?
bottom line: yes, this stuff comes out of the same factory, and yes,
some brands may be the same. but not /all/ brands are the same, and not
all products from any particular factory are the same.
>
> Do you know that the recent GF-4/SM oil standards have kicked up the
> performance requirements for motor oils dramatically and that as a
> result the performance differences between branded oils today are the
> smallest they have been in history?
>
> Have a look at the forums on www.bobistheoilguy.com sometime if you want
> to learn some things about oil.
>
> The only real difference between specialty brand oils and "gas station"
> brand oils are the hundreds of millions of dollars spent marketing the
> specialty brands to easily led minds. It cracks me up that there are
> Kendall loyalists who wouldn't be caught dead putting lowly Phillips
> TropArtic oil in their cars and instead pay a premium for Kendall ....
> suckers!
>
> John
> hondaman wrote:
>
>> shell oil is generic. i would insist on castrol or valvoline or at
>> least another well known brand. lots of oil change places use cheap
>> quality gas station brand oil which isn't as good as the major brands.
>> that should be your main concern. your engine is relatively new now
>> but over time that cheap oil may take a toll on it.
>>
>>
>> -jeff
>
>
>
> You sir really do not know what you are talking about. The image that
> gas station brand oils are somehow inferior is a result of years of
> marketing dollars and has no correlation to product quality.
>
> Did you know, for example, that Shell owns the Wolf's Head, Quaker State
> and Pennzoil brands and has for many years now? Did you know that BP
> owns Castrol? Did you know that Honda brand 5W-20 oil from your
> dealership is the same stuff as is also sold as Exxon Superflo 5W-20?
> Did you know that the Chevron Supreme/Texaco Havoline twins (really the
> same company and the same oil) are two of the most highly regarded
> conventional oils made? Do you know that Kendall GT1, Union 76,
> Phillips TropArtic, Conoco and Motorcraft motor oils are all the same
> product manufactured by ConocoPhillps and put into different bottles?
hold on a second john. many different products come out of the same
factory, but it doesn't mean they have the same composition. oil is not
a good subject for the layman because he/she doesn't have analysis tools
laying about in the kitchen, but a similar product on which people often
/do/ have experience is paint. most paint sold here comes from the same
few factories. there are /many/ different brands, even though the
producers are the same. BUT, compositions between brands are frequently
very different. take opacity for instance where you're trying to paint
over crayon marks in the kids room. if you've ever been in the
situation where one brand covers the marks in one or two coats, but
another takes 3 coats and /still/ won't adequately cover, you'll know
what i mean.
now, regarding oils, motorcraft brand oil is /supposed/ to be a high
quality oil based on chevron. and the analysis shown in bitog confirms
inorganic content consistent with that. BUT, i'm here to assure you
that in my 16 year old civic, that oil pisses through seals like there's
no tomorrow. i mean, you literally watch that stuff drip out. but if i
use castrol gtx, all my seals [after a couple of weeks at any rate]
start to seal again. the additives in castrol that cause that are not
the inorganics that conveniently show up in spark analysis so commonly
used by bitog adherents - they're the /organic/ compounds, the
plasticizers, the swelling agents, that motorcraft evidently doesn't
have, or at least, not in sufficient quantity to be effective.
what other organics are so important? the viscosity index modifiers!
again, there is a crude test for this used in standard analysis, but it
doesn't identify quantity or types of compounds used and the results can
be distorted by other factors. getting the picture?
bottom line: yes, this stuff comes out of the same factory, and yes,
some brands may be the same. but not /all/ brands are the same, and not
all products from any particular factory are the same.
>
> Do you know that the recent GF-4/SM oil standards have kicked up the
> performance requirements for motor oils dramatically and that as a
> result the performance differences between branded oils today are the
> smallest they have been in history?
>
> Have a look at the forums on www.bobistheoilguy.com sometime if you want
> to learn some things about oil.
>
> The only real difference between specialty brand oils and "gas station"
> brand oils are the hundreds of millions of dollars spent marketing the
> specialty brands to easily led minds. It cracks me up that there are
> Kendall loyalists who wouldn't be caught dead putting lowly Phillips
> TropArtic oil in their cars and instead pay a premium for Kendall ....
> suckers!
>
> John
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Drive out west and try to find it
Hey!
Herring chokers might have it, but you very rarely see 5W20. Wal-Mart has
just started to carry it in bulk oil, Canadian Tire did not have it, and
most aftermarket auto supply i.e. Partssource, auto value etc do not have
it. They will order it for you but it is not carried as normal stock. Any
how its a premium price when you can find it 5W30 does a better job anyhow.
"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in message
news:PMo8f.60598$S4.33530@edtnps84...
"Henri" <henri_latour@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JoU7f.306846$1i.286081@pd7tw2no...
> No.
> Don't get too hung up on oil grades.
The fact that the people who designed the engine call for it doesn't make it
an important point?
> My Ford Focus calls for 5W20, but because the oil is still difficult to
> find
> and retail outlets like to bend you over price wise for oil changes with
> 5W20, I use 5W30 in the winter and 10W30 with no problems for 5 years.
Difficult to find? Where are you living? 5W20 can be found pretty much any
retail environment you walk into.
Herring chokers might have it, but you very rarely see 5W20. Wal-Mart has
just started to carry it in bulk oil, Canadian Tire did not have it, and
most aftermarket auto supply i.e. Partssource, auto value etc do not have
it. They will order it for you but it is not carried as normal stock. Any
how its a premium price when you can find it 5W30 does a better job anyhow.
"Brian Smith" <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote in message
news:PMo8f.60598$S4.33530@edtnps84...
"Henri" <henri_latour@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JoU7f.306846$1i.286081@pd7tw2no...
> No.
> Don't get too hung up on oil grades.
The fact that the people who designed the engine call for it doesn't make it
an important point?
> My Ford Focus calls for 5W20, but because the oil is still difficult to
> find
> and retail outlets like to bend you over price wise for oil changes with
> 5W20, I use 5W30 in the winter and 10W30 with no problems for 5 years.
Difficult to find? Where are you living? 5W20 can be found pretty much any
retail environment you walk into.
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
This is not true. A lot of marketing money is spent to convince people that
well known brand name oil is higher quality and therefore worth spending
extra money on. All brands and generic motor oil sold in US and Canada must
meet API, SAE and other standards and is of equal quality. Don't feel bad
though, lots of others are fooled by this too and it applies with many other
products as well.
"hondaman" <jeffscomp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ReM8f.2674$Lv.1114@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
> shell oil is generic. i would insist on castrol or valvoline or at least
> another well known brand. lots of oil change places use cheap quality gas
> station brand oil which isn't as good as the major brands. that should be
> your main concern. your engine is relatively new now but over time that
> cheap oil may take a toll on it.
>
>
> -jeff
> "Llatikcuf" <Llatikcuf@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1130554302.540371.101430@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
>> Cool, thanks.
>>
>> -Nate
>>
>
>
well known brand name oil is higher quality and therefore worth spending
extra money on. All brands and generic motor oil sold in US and Canada must
meet API, SAE and other standards and is of equal quality. Don't feel bad
though, lots of others are fooled by this too and it applies with many other
products as well.
"hondaman" <jeffscomp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ReM8f.2674$Lv.1114@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
> shell oil is generic. i would insist on castrol or valvoline or at least
> another well known brand. lots of oil change places use cheap quality gas
> station brand oil which isn't as good as the major brands. that should be
> your main concern. your engine is relatively new now but over time that
> cheap oil may take a toll on it.
>
>
> -jeff
> "Llatikcuf" <Llatikcuf@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1130554302.540371.101430@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
>> Cool, thanks.
>>
>> -Nate
>>
>
>
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil- damage?
jim beam wrote:
> bottom line: yes, this stuff comes out of the same factory, and yes,
> some brands may be the same. but not /all/ brands are the same, and not
> all products from any particular factory are the same.
>
The point is that Valvoline, Quaker State, Castrol etc. are not ipso
facto better than Exxon, Shell, Texaco, Chevron or other gas station
brand oils.
I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
than ever, a statement which I stand behind. I also said that the
ConocoPhillips brands do appear to be exactly the same product in
different bottles.
Shell continues to have slightly different formulations for most of
their Shell, Quaker State and Pennzoil branded oils, but the differences
are becoming less meaningful all the time.
I am also quite certain about the Motorcraft-Conoco connection as
opposed to a Motorcraft-Chevron connection.
John
> bottom line: yes, this stuff comes out of the same factory, and yes,
> some brands may be the same. but not /all/ brands are the same, and not
> all products from any particular factory are the same.
>
The point is that Valvoline, Quaker State, Castrol etc. are not ipso
facto better than Exxon, Shell, Texaco, Chevron or other gas station
brand oils.
I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
than ever, a statement which I stand behind. I also said that the
ConocoPhillips brands do appear to be exactly the same product in
different bottles.
Shell continues to have slightly different formulations for most of
their Shell, Quaker State and Pennzoil branded oils, but the differences
are becoming less meaningful all the time.
I am also quite certain about the Motorcraft-Conoco connection as
opposed to a Motorcraft-Chevron connection.
John
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
not all motor oils are OK. there are differences. i wouldn't go to the
dollar store and buy whatever cheapo brand they have and think it's going to
protect my engine in cold weather. if you want your engine to start knocking
go ahead and use whatever generic made is cheapest. name brand oils are in
competition for the best product so they are better than odd branded ones.
maybe in the original posters case shell brand oil may be suitable for a
honda but i would still prefer penzoil or castrol or quaker state or
valvoline over it myself.
-jeff
"Tom Levigne" <toml37@excite.com> wrote in message
news:IKR8f.1794$2y.960@newsread2.news.atl.earthlin k.net...
> This is not true. A lot of marketing money is spent to convince people
> that well known brand name oil is higher quality and therefore worth
> spending extra money on. All brands and generic motor oil sold in US and
> Canada must meet API, SAE and other standards and is of equal quality.
> Don't feel bad though, lots of others are fooled by this too and it
> applies with many other products as well.
>
>
>
> "hondaman" <jeffscomp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ReM8f.2674$Lv.1114@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
>> shell oil is generic. i would insist on castrol or valvoline or at least
>> another well known brand. lots of oil change places use cheap quality gas
>> station brand oil which isn't as good as the major brands. that should be
>> your main concern. your engine is relatively new now but over time that
>> cheap oil may take a toll on it.
>>
>>
>> -jeff
>> "Llatikcuf" <Llatikcuf@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1130554302.540371.101430@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
>>> Cool, thanks.
>>>
>>> -Nate
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
dollar store and buy whatever cheapo brand they have and think it's going to
protect my engine in cold weather. if you want your engine to start knocking
go ahead and use whatever generic made is cheapest. name brand oils are in
competition for the best product so they are better than odd branded ones.
maybe in the original posters case shell brand oil may be suitable for a
honda but i would still prefer penzoil or castrol or quaker state or
valvoline over it myself.
-jeff
"Tom Levigne" <toml37@excite.com> wrote in message
news:IKR8f.1794$2y.960@newsread2.news.atl.earthlin k.net...
> This is not true. A lot of marketing money is spent to convince people
> that well known brand name oil is higher quality and therefore worth
> spending extra money on. All brands and generic motor oil sold in US and
> Canada must meet API, SAE and other standards and is of equal quality.
> Don't feel bad though, lots of others are fooled by this too and it
> applies with many other products as well.
>
>
>
> "hondaman" <jeffscomp@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ReM8f.2674$Lv.1114@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net ...
>> shell oil is generic. i would insist on castrol or valvoline or at least
>> another well known brand. lots of oil change places use cheap quality gas
>> station brand oil which isn't as good as the major brands. that should be
>> your main concern. your engine is relatively new now but over time that
>> cheap oil may take a toll on it.
>>
>>
>> -jeff
>> "Llatikcuf" <Llatikcuf@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1130554302.540371.101430@o13g2000cwo.googlegr oups.com...
>>> Cool, thanks.
>>>
>>> -Nate
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil- damage?
jim beam wrote:
> now, regarding oils, motorcraft brand oil is /supposed/ to be a high
> quality oil based on chevron. and the analysis shown in bitog confirms
> inorganic content consistent with that. BUT, i'm here to assure you
> that in my 16 year old civic, that oil pisses through seals like there's
> no tomorrow. i mean, you literally watch that stuff drip out. but if i
> use castrol gtx, all my seals [after a couple of weeks at any rate]
> start to seal again. the additives in castrol that cause that are not
> the inorganics that conveniently show up in spark analysis so commonly
> used by bitog adherents - they're the /organic/ compounds, the
> plasticizers, the swelling agents, that motorcraft evidently doesn't
> have, or at least, not in sufficient quantity to be effective.
Sounds like your old Civic is a good candidate for one of the high
mileage formulations and that GTX works well for you. Perhaps GTX has
some of those seal conditioners in it as well. Castrol High Mileage
might do even better for you.
Old leaky cars are a special case which often benefit from a special
solution.
John
> now, regarding oils, motorcraft brand oil is /supposed/ to be a high
> quality oil based on chevron. and the analysis shown in bitog confirms
> inorganic content consistent with that. BUT, i'm here to assure you
> that in my 16 year old civic, that oil pisses through seals like there's
> no tomorrow. i mean, you literally watch that stuff drip out. but if i
> use castrol gtx, all my seals [after a couple of weeks at any rate]
> start to seal again. the additives in castrol that cause that are not
> the inorganics that conveniently show up in spark analysis so commonly
> used by bitog adherents - they're the /organic/ compounds, the
> plasticizers, the swelling agents, that motorcraft evidently doesn't
> have, or at least, not in sufficient quantity to be effective.
Sounds like your old Civic is a good candidate for one of the high
mileage formulations and that GTX works well for you. Perhaps GTX has
some of those seal conditioners in it as well. Castrol High Mileage
might do even better for you.
Old leaky cars are a special case which often benefit from a special
solution.
John
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
Tom Levigne wrote:
> This is not true. A lot of marketing money is spent to convince people that
> well known brand name oil is higher quality and therefore worth spending
> extra money on. All brands and generic motor oil sold in US and Canada must
> meet API, SAE and other standards and is of equal quality. Don't feel bad
> though, lots of others are fooled by this too and it applies with many other
> products as well.
>
I agree with you in spirit but not in detail. All oils have to meet the
same minimum standards, but that does not mean that all oils are of
equal quality. Just ask VW about that some time . They have
published a short list of oil approved to their tests which are more
strict than API standards and the engines on some VWs are highly prone
to sludging if only minimal quality oils are used.
All tires sold in the US have to meet certain DOT minimum requirements,
but there are massive differences in performance and longevity amoungst
the various tires being offered.
John
> This is not true. A lot of marketing money is spent to convince people that
> well known brand name oil is higher quality and therefore worth spending
> extra money on. All brands and generic motor oil sold in US and Canada must
> meet API, SAE and other standards and is of equal quality. Don't feel bad
> though, lots of others are fooled by this too and it applies with many other
> products as well.
>
I agree with you in spirit but not in detail. All oils have to meet the
same minimum standards, but that does not mean that all oils are of
equal quality. Just ask VW about that some time . They have
published a short list of oil approved to their tests which are more
strict than API standards and the engines on some VWs are highly prone
to sludging if only minimal quality oils are used.
All tires sold in the US have to meet certain DOT minimum requirements,
but there are massive differences in performance and longevity amoungst
the various tires being offered.
John
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 22:59:27 GMT, "hondaman" <jeffscomp@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>not all motor oils are OK. there are differences. i wouldn't go to the
>dollar store and buy whatever cheapo brand they have and think it's going to
>protect my engine in cold weather. if you want your engine to start knocking
>go ahead and use whatever generic made is cheapest.
Oil will not cause knocking. That is caused by gas that has too low an
octane number for your engine.
wrote:
>not all motor oils are OK. there are differences. i wouldn't go to the
>dollar store and buy whatever cheapo brand they have and think it's going to
>protect my engine in cold weather. if you want your engine to start knocking
>go ahead and use whatever generic made is cheapest.
Oil will not cause knocking. That is caused by gas that has too low an
octane number for your engine.
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil - damage?
seems to be lots of knowledge about oil here
have an opinion on Mobil 1
i currently use Mobil 1 5w20 or 10w30 in '93 Civic Si
with mobil 1 filter or motorcraft or puralator
is there a better oil solution
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q5T8f.2560$iv3.316@trnddc08...
> jim beam wrote:
>
> > bottom line: yes, this stuff comes out of the same factory, and yes,
> > some brands may be the same. but not /all/ brands are the same, and not
> > all products from any particular factory are the same.
> >
>
>
> The point is that Valvoline, Quaker State, Castrol etc. are not ipso
> facto better than Exxon, Shell, Texaco, Chevron or other gas station
> brand oils.
>
> I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
> new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
> than ever, a statement which I stand behind. I also said that the
> ConocoPhillips brands do appear to be exactly the same product in
> different bottles.
>
> Shell continues to have slightly different formulations for most of
> their Shell, Quaker State and Pennzoil branded oils, but the differences
> are becoming less meaningful all the time.
>
> I am also quite certain about the Motorcraft-Conoco connection as
> opposed to a Motorcraft-Chevron connection.
>
> John
have an opinion on Mobil 1
i currently use Mobil 1 5w20 or 10w30 in '93 Civic Si
with mobil 1 filter or motorcraft or puralator
is there a better oil solution
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Q5T8f.2560$iv3.316@trnddc08...
> jim beam wrote:
>
> > bottom line: yes, this stuff comes out of the same factory, and yes,
> > some brands may be the same. but not /all/ brands are the same, and not
> > all products from any particular factory are the same.
> >
>
>
> The point is that Valvoline, Quaker State, Castrol etc. are not ipso
> facto better than Exxon, Shell, Texaco, Chevron or other gas station
> brand oils.
>
> I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
> new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
> than ever, a statement which I stand behind. I also said that the
> ConocoPhillips brands do appear to be exactly the same product in
> different bottles.
>
> Shell continues to have slightly different formulations for most of
> their Shell, Quaker State and Pennzoil branded oils, but the differences
> are becoming less meaningful all the time.
>
> I am also quite certain about the Motorcraft-Conoco connection as
> opposed to a Motorcraft-Chevron connection.
>
> John
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil- damage?
John Horner wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> now, regarding oils, motorcraft brand oil is /supposed/ to be a high
>> quality oil based on chevron. and the analysis shown in bitog
>> confirms inorganic content consistent with that. BUT, i'm here to
>> assure you that in my 16 year old civic, that oil pisses through seals
>> like there's no tomorrow. i mean, you literally watch that stuff drip
>> out. but if i use castrol gtx, all my seals [after a couple of weeks
>> at any rate] start to seal again. the additives in castrol that cause
>> that are not the inorganics that conveniently show up in spark
>> analysis so commonly used by bitog adherents - they're the /organic/
>> compounds, the plasticizers, the swelling agents, that motorcraft
>> evidently doesn't have, or at least, not in sufficient quantity to be
>> effective.
>
>
>
> Sounds like your old Civic is a good candidate for one of the high
> mileage formulations and that GTX works well for you. Perhaps GTX has
> some of those seal conditioners in it as well. Castrol High Mileage
> might do even better for you.
>
> Old leaky cars are a special case which often benefit from a special
> solution.
>
> John
>
>
believe it or not, the car doen't leak at all now. as in, it doesn't
leave drips on the garage floor. there's still a little weeping, but as
i say, nothing sufficient to drip - and no teardrops of oil hanging
under the car when you get underneath like before. i'm using standard
[cheaper] castrol gtx.
before, it used to leave oil all over the floor and at stop lights at
night, you could see smoke come out from under the hood where it was
dripping on the exhaust. i bought a gasket/seal kit in anticipation of
repairs, but haven't used it since i changed oil brand.
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> now, regarding oils, motorcraft brand oil is /supposed/ to be a high
>> quality oil based on chevron. and the analysis shown in bitog
>> confirms inorganic content consistent with that. BUT, i'm here to
>> assure you that in my 16 year old civic, that oil pisses through seals
>> like there's no tomorrow. i mean, you literally watch that stuff drip
>> out. but if i use castrol gtx, all my seals [after a couple of weeks
>> at any rate] start to seal again. the additives in castrol that cause
>> that are not the inorganics that conveniently show up in spark
>> analysis so commonly used by bitog adherents - they're the /organic/
>> compounds, the plasticizers, the swelling agents, that motorcraft
>> evidently doesn't have, or at least, not in sufficient quantity to be
>> effective.
>
>
>
> Sounds like your old Civic is a good candidate for one of the high
> mileage formulations and that GTX works well for you. Perhaps GTX has
> some of those seal conditioners in it as well. Castrol High Mileage
> might do even better for you.
>
> Old leaky cars are a special case which often benefit from a special
> solution.
>
> John
>
>
believe it or not, the car doen't leak at all now. as in, it doesn't
leave drips on the garage floor. there's still a little weeping, but as
i say, nothing sufficient to drip - and no teardrops of oil hanging
under the car when you get underneath like before. i'm using standard
[cheaper] castrol gtx.
before, it used to leave oil all over the floor and at stop lights at
night, you could see smoke come out from under the hood where it was
dripping on the exhaust. i bought a gasket/seal kit in anticipation of
repairs, but haven't used it since i changed oil brand.
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Oil Brand Myth, was:Oil change done with wrong grade oil- damage?
John Horner wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> bottom line: yes, this stuff comes out of the same factory, and yes,
>> some brands may be the same. but not /all/ brands are the same, and
>> not all products from any particular factory are the same.
>>
>
>
> The point is that Valvoline, Quaker State, Castrol etc. are not ipso
> facto better than Exxon, Shell, Texaco, Chevron or other gas station
> brand oils.
with respect, i don't buy that. this may not be you, but it scares me
that people rely on the rudimentary spark spectrum analysis from bitog
to form opinions because it just doesn't cover the key issues of
detergency, thermal stability, viscosity index improver stability,
oxidation resistance, acid resistance, anti-foaming, seal conditioner
[etc] packages that are vital to the long term viability of any motor
oil. just throw in a bit of moly [or something cheap & spark testable]
& the bitog folk are happy!
>
> I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
> new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
> than ever, a statement which I stand behind.
ok, the bar is raised. doesn't mean they all achieve the same margin
above that bar though.
> I also said that the
> ConocoPhillips brands do appear to be exactly the same product in
> different bottles.
maybe.
>
> Shell continues to have slightly different formulations for most of
> their Shell, Quaker State and Pennzoil branded oils, but the differences
> are becoming less meaningful all the time.
>
> I am also quite certain about the Motorcraft-Conoco connection as
> opposed to a Motorcraft-Chevron connection.
ok. i think they change from time to time.
>
> John
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> bottom line: yes, this stuff comes out of the same factory, and yes,
>> some brands may be the same. but not /all/ brands are the same, and
>> not all products from any particular factory are the same.
>>
>
>
> The point is that Valvoline, Quaker State, Castrol etc. are not ipso
> facto better than Exxon, Shell, Texaco, Chevron or other gas station
> brand oils.
with respect, i don't buy that. this may not be you, but it scares me
that people rely on the rudimentary spark spectrum analysis from bitog
to form opinions because it just doesn't cover the key issues of
detergency, thermal stability, viscosity index improver stability,
oxidation resistance, acid resistance, anti-foaming, seal conditioner
[etc] packages that are vital to the long term viability of any motor
oil. just throw in a bit of moly [or something cheap & spark testable]
& the bitog folk are happy!
>
> I never said that all brands are the same, but I did say that with the
> new SM generation the practical differences between them are smaller
> than ever, a statement which I stand behind.
ok, the bar is raised. doesn't mean they all achieve the same margin
above that bar though.
> I also said that the
> ConocoPhillips brands do appear to be exactly the same product in
> different bottles.
maybe.
>
> Shell continues to have slightly different formulations for most of
> their Shell, Quaker State and Pennzoil branded oils, but the differences
> are becoming less meaningful all the time.
>
> I am also quite certain about the Motorcraft-Conoco connection as
> opposed to a Motorcraft-Chevron connection.
ok. i think they change from time to time.
>
> John