"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:KMKdnabzi7LgvgffRVn-vw@speakeasy.net...
> relax. the uk has nowhere /near/ the cold temps a lot of the u.s.
> experiences. cranking a cold engine with a cold battery on top of cold
> transmission oil is not a reliable way to start a car. making sure users
> fully depress the clutch ensures the engine starts more quickly, using
> less fuel, and more reliably. ok?
>
I've used the starter to crank a car out of traffic when the ignition got
wet. It can be a useful feature. I would worry about the ability to drive
the var to repair after the clutch cable broke (or the cylinder/s gave out)
but the switch is on the pedal in the cars I've looked at.

Mike

 

"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
news:KMKdnabzi7LgvgffRVn-vw@speakeasy.net...
> relax. the uk has nowhere /near/ the cold temps a lot of the u.s.
> experiences. cranking a cold engine with a cold battery on top of cold
> transmission oil is not a reliable way to start a car. making sure users
> fully depress the clutch ensures the engine starts more quickly, using
> less fuel, and more reliably. ok?
>
I've used the starter to crank a car out of traffic when the ignition got
wet. It can be a useful feature. I would worry about the ability to drive
the var to repair after the clutch cable broke (or the cylinder/s gave out)
but the switch is on the pedal in the cars I've looked at.

Mike

 

On Sun, 29 May 2005 13:18:05 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
wrote:

>K`Tetch wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:28:53 GMT, "Brian Smith"
>> <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The same as most manual shift vehicles have switches on
>>>the clutch, to prevent the vehicle from being started without the clutch
>>>disengaged.
>>
>>
>> I hate that ing thing - i disable it first chance i get.There are
>> times i've HAD to start it in gear 9you will even find reasons given
>> in the UK highway code)As far as i can tell, thats an american only
>> 'feature' - perhaps better drivers education ni the proper method of
>> driving a MT car would be more appropriate.
>
>relax. the uk has nowhere /near/ the cold temps a lot of the u.s.
>experiences. cranking a cold engine with a cold battery on top of cold
>transmission oil is not a reliable way to start a car. making sure
>users fully depress the clutch ensures the engine starts more quickly,
>using less fuel, and more reliably. ok?

you don't get it. Who said that the car HAD to be started with the
clutch pedal untouched? I'm saying a switch that FORCES you to start
with the clutch down is Bad, not the actual starting with the clutch
depressed.

Also, note that whilst i said "the uk highway code gives instances"
I'm not saying the switch is only absent on UK cars. Indeed, my last
car in the UK is a asweedish import, It had no such switch either (so
its nothing to do with temp, since i KNOW it gets colder in sweeden
than in the US)

The switch is there for one reason - driver ineptitude.

>
>>
>>
>>>Brian
>>>
>>
>>

 

On Sun, 29 May 2005 13:18:05 -0700, jim beam <nospam@example.net>
wrote:

>K`Tetch wrote:
>> On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:28:53 GMT, "Brian Smith"
>> <Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The same as most manual shift vehicles have switches on
>>>the clutch, to prevent the vehicle from being started without the clutch
>>>disengaged.
>>
>>
>> I hate that ing thing - i disable it first chance i get.There are
>> times i've HAD to start it in gear 9you will even find reasons given
>> in the UK highway code)As far as i can tell, thats an american only
>> 'feature' - perhaps better drivers education ni the proper method of
>> driving a MT car would be more appropriate.
>
>relax. the uk has nowhere /near/ the cold temps a lot of the u.s.
>experiences. cranking a cold engine with a cold battery on top of cold
>transmission oil is not a reliable way to start a car. making sure
>users fully depress the clutch ensures the engine starts more quickly,
>using less fuel, and more reliably. ok?

you don't get it. Who said that the car HAD to be started with the
clutch pedal untouched? I'm saying a switch that FORCES you to start
with the clutch down is Bad, not the actual starting with the clutch
depressed.

Also, note that whilst i said "the uk highway code gives instances"
I'm not saying the switch is only absent on UK cars. Indeed, my last
car in the UK is a asweedish import, It had no such switch either (so
its nothing to do with temp, since i KNOW it gets colder in sweeden
than in the US)

The switch is there for one reason - driver ineptitude.

>
>>
>>
>>>Brian
>>>
>>
>>

 

K`Tetch <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in
news:gcom91tp5g96g0qmkqpdonvv3uepcmc46b@4ax.com:


> The switch is there for one reason - driver ineptitude.


Incorrect.

The clutch interlock switch is there for liability reasons, just like the
automatic transmission brake-pedal lock.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

K`Tetch <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in
news:gcom91tp5g96g0qmkqpdonvv3uepcmc46b@4ax.com:


> The switch is there for one reason - driver ineptitude.


Incorrect.

The clutch interlock switch is there for liability reasons, just like the
automatic transmission brake-pedal lock.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

TeGGeR® wrote:
> K`Tetch <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in
> news:gcom91tp5g96g0qmkqpdonvv3uepcmc46b@4ax.com:
>
>
>
>>The switch is there for one reason - driver ineptitude.
>
> Incorrect.
>
> The clutch interlock switch is there for liability reasons, just like the
> automatic transmission brake-pedal lock.

----------------------------

Like TeGGer said. Picture the parent dumb enough to leave the kiddies in
the car with the key ON so they can listen to the radio. (car has no
clutch interlock switch) Kid turns key and car takes off in gear, drives
thru crowd of people at bus stop.

Safety devices protect us all. Sorry they 'violate your personal
'space'. Please stand at the bus stop until you feel better.

'Curly'

 

TeGGeR® wrote:
> K`Tetch <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in
> news:gcom91tp5g96g0qmkqpdonvv3uepcmc46b@4ax.com:
>
>
>
>>The switch is there for one reason - driver ineptitude.
>
> Incorrect.
>
> The clutch interlock switch is there for liability reasons, just like the
> automatic transmission brake-pedal lock.

----------------------------

Like TeGGer said. Picture the parent dumb enough to leave the kiddies in
the car with the key ON so they can listen to the radio. (car has no
clutch interlock switch) Kid turns key and car takes off in gear, drives
thru crowd of people at bus stop.

Safety devices protect us all. Sorry they 'violate your personal
'space'. Please stand at the bus stop until you feel better.

'Curly'

 

On 30 May 2005 19:08:01 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

>K`Tetch <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in
>news:gcom91tp5g96g0qmkqpdonvv3uepcmc46b@4ax.com :
>
>
>> The switch is there for one reason - driver ineptitude.
>
>
>Incorrect.
>
>The clutch interlock switch is there for liability reasons, just like the
>automatic transmission brake-pedal lock.

you remember what 'liability reasons' are don't you? the liabilities
are stupid people doing stupid things. Couldn't comment on the
auto-trans brake pedal thing, in the UK, since the last two
auto-trans cars i've driven were a Marc c300 Kompressor 9a skid-pan
car for silverstone, heavily modified, and it was never in park whilst
i was there, something to do with the skid-cradel powering, and a
t-REd (1979) ford granada 2.8 - no brake interlock.

Strangely enough, neither my 88 civic, or 87 caravan have a auto-trans
brake 'stupidity switch' either. Or, iif they do, they're both
non-functional, and have been since we've had them.

I deal a lot with insurance comapnies (I've been a safety officer for
a large event/tv show with lots of hazards, i'm a design engineer, and
i run my own events) - "things added for liability reasons" are
basically things added to prodect the stupid, or inept from
themselves, nothing more.

 

On 30 May 2005 19:08:01 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

>K`Tetch <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in
>news:gcom91tp5g96g0qmkqpdonvv3uepcmc46b@4ax.com :
>
>
>> The switch is there for one reason - driver ineptitude.
>
>
>Incorrect.
>
>The clutch interlock switch is there for liability reasons, just like the
>automatic transmission brake-pedal lock.

you remember what 'liability reasons' are don't you? the liabilities
are stupid people doing stupid things. Couldn't comment on the
auto-trans brake pedal thing, in the UK, since the last two
auto-trans cars i've driven were a Marc c300 Kompressor 9a skid-pan
car for silverstone, heavily modified, and it was never in park whilst
i was there, something to do with the skid-cradel powering, and a
t-REd (1979) ford granada 2.8 - no brake interlock.

Strangely enough, neither my 88 civic, or 87 caravan have a auto-trans
brake 'stupidity switch' either. Or, iif they do, they're both
non-functional, and have been since we've had them.

I deal a lot with insurance comapnies (I've been a safety officer for
a large event/tv show with lots of hazards, i'm a design engineer, and
i run my own events) - "things added for liability reasons" are
basically things added to prodect the stupid, or inept from
themselves, nothing more.

 

"K`Tetch" <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in message
news:4e5n91tht24nun7pbf1n9nb94bucsqn3kv@4ax.com...
>
> I deal a lot with insurance comapnies (I've been a safety officer for
> a large event/tv show with lots of hazards, i'm a design engineer, and
> i run my own events) - "things added for liability reasons" are
> basically things added to prodect the stupid, or inept from
> themselves, nothing more.

They're also there to protect YOU from the stupid people. You want to be in
front of a stupid person when they start the car in gear without the clutch
depressed?

 

"K`Tetch" <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in message
news:4e5n91tht24nun7pbf1n9nb94bucsqn3kv@4ax.com...
>
> I deal a lot with insurance comapnies (I've been a safety officer for
> a large event/tv show with lots of hazards, i'm a design engineer, and
> i run my own events) - "things added for liability reasons" are
> basically things added to prodect the stupid, or inept from
> themselves, nothing more.

They're also there to protect YOU from the stupid people. You want to be in
front of a stupid person when they start the car in gear without the clutch
depressed?

 

K`Tetch <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in
news:4e5n91tht24nun7pbf1n9nb94bucsqn3kv@4ax.com:

> On 30 May 2005 19:08:01 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>>K`Tetch <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in
>>news:gcom91tp5g96g0qmkqpdonvv3uepcmc46b@4ax.co m:
>>
>>
>>> The switch is there for one reason - driver ineptitude.
>>
>>
>>Incorrect.
>>
>>The clutch interlock switch is there for liability reasons, just like
>>the automatic transmission brake-pedal lock.
>
> you remember what 'liability reasons' are don't you? the liabilities
> are stupid people doing stupid things.


Actually, no. "Liability reasons" are some people being held responsible
for the actions of others unconnected to them.

It has absolutely ZERO to do with "stupid people" and bus stops. Stupid
people have been around forever. Responsibility-by-proxy as a principle
dates from about 1958.

- The woman who spills coffee in her lap, and McDonald's is found
responsible.
- A burglar who falls through a skylight during a burglary and successfully
sues the building owner for failing to warn him the skylights were unsafe.
- A packaging company unwillingly acquires ownership in an asbestos company
for six months in the mid-'60s and is now being sued for asbestos damages.
- A woman fails to secure her childern in her mimivan and Chrysler is found
responsible because the kids were ejected.

The one-and-only response when you are at-risk for the actions of those
over whom you have no control is to protect yourself. Audi installs brake
interlocks, and everybody else follows.
Clutch interlocks become ubiquitous. And everybody gets used to them and
thinks they are indispensible, failing to realize that people put up
without such things for almost a century before.


The problem: Anarchic tort. The cure: Tort reform.

A good book to read if you want to understand this issue:
The Liability Revolution and its Consequences, by Peter W. Huber.
New York: Basic Books, 1988



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

K`Tetch <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in
news:4e5n91tht24nun7pbf1n9nb94bucsqn3kv@4ax.com:

> On 30 May 2005 19:08:01 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
>
>>K`Tetch <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in
>>news:gcom91tp5g96g0qmkqpdonvv3uepcmc46b@4ax.co m:
>>
>>
>>> The switch is there for one reason - driver ineptitude.
>>
>>
>>Incorrect.
>>
>>The clutch interlock switch is there for liability reasons, just like
>>the automatic transmission brake-pedal lock.
>
> you remember what 'liability reasons' are don't you? the liabilities
> are stupid people doing stupid things.


Actually, no. "Liability reasons" are some people being held responsible
for the actions of others unconnected to them.

It has absolutely ZERO to do with "stupid people" and bus stops. Stupid
people have been around forever. Responsibility-by-proxy as a principle
dates from about 1958.

- The woman who spills coffee in her lap, and McDonald's is found
responsible.
- A burglar who falls through a skylight during a burglary and successfully
sues the building owner for failing to warn him the skylights were unsafe.
- A packaging company unwillingly acquires ownership in an asbestos company
for six months in the mid-'60s and is now being sued for asbestos damages.
- A woman fails to secure her childern in her mimivan and Chrysler is found
responsible because the kids were ejected.

The one-and-only response when you are at-risk for the actions of those
over whom you have no control is to protect yourself. Audi installs brake
interlocks, and everybody else follows.
Clutch interlocks become ubiquitous. And everybody gets used to them and
thinks they are indispensible, failing to realize that people put up
without such things for almost a century before.


The problem: Anarchic tort. The cure: Tort reform.

A good book to read if you want to understand this issue:
The Liability Revolution and its Consequences, by Peter W. Huber.
New York: Basic Books, 1988



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:GmNme.1613$ED6.414@news02.roc.ny:

> "K`Tetch" <no.email@here.for.you> wrote in message
> news:4e5n91tht24nun7pbf1n9nb94bucsqn3kv@4ax.com...
>>
>> I deal a lot with insurance comapnies (I've been a safety officer for
>> a large event/tv show with lots of hazards, i'm a design engineer,
>> and i run my own events) - "things added for liability reasons" are
>> basically things added to prodect the stupid, or inept from
>> themselves, nothing more.
>
> They're also there to protect YOU from the stupid people. You want to
> be in front of a stupid person when they start the car in gear without
> the clutch depressed?
>
>


The Liability Revolution and its Consequences, by Peter W. Huber.
New York: Basic Books, 1988

Stupid people have always been around, and will always be around. Look at
yourself.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/