In article <Xns9CF3B93816CDAtegger@208.90.168.18>,
Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote:

> > while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're
> > not infallible.
>
>
>
> Ain't that the truth.
>
> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they
> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening the
> plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by hanging from
> it, as monkeys do.

The dealership I use has many people there, but they come and go. The
guy I use has been there for a long, long time--and I sit and watch him
work, and we chat.

This same dealership has plenty of idiots in the shop, and one
out-and-out crook that they allow to get away with murder. Despite my
utter distaste that they let him stay there, the service manager and I
have a cordial relationship.

If the guy I use were to go anywhere else, I'd follow him--without doubt.

People buy from people, not companies. It's not about the dealership.
It's about the people in it.

 

In article <dplsj5153smn7npsj0dp06uhpq0tqd76gb@4ax.com>,
"Guy" <void@void.com> wrote:

> >Spend $25,000 and you don't read the manual first thing, and you don't
> >pay attention when the guy shows you details?
> >
> >wow.
>
> I guess you haven't bought a new vehicle lately. If you did, you
> might have more important things on your mind at the time of purchase
> then the maintenance minder. Besides it's in the manual to read,
> right? Then no big deal as I see it.

At the time of purchase, sure. When I get home? I read the owner's
manual. I even mark pages.

Because I just spent TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND FRIGGIN' DOLLARS. Maybe
that's chicken- money to you, but to me it's a bunch.

 

In article <dplsj5153smn7npsj0dp06uhpq0tqd76gb@4ax.com>,
"Guy" <void@void.com> wrote:

> Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and
> still no problems.

hehehehe--reminds me of my 79 Civic. The oil system had a nifty
self-changing feature. When the oil light flickered during hard right
turns, it was time to add more oil.

 

In article <Xns9CF3876075C87thefrogprince@69.16.185.247>,
Larry in AZ <usenet2@DELETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote:

> Waiving the right to remain silent, "Guy" <void@void.com> said:
>
> > I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly.
> > What is the proper way?
>
> RTFM.

And a fine manual it is.

 

Tegger wrote:
> jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>
>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote:
>
>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work
>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners...
>>>
>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're
>> not infallible.
>
>
>
> Ain't that the truth.
>
> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they
> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening the
> plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by hanging from
> it, as monkeys do.
>
> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The plug
> is not stripped.
>
>

The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time,
without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord
stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very
unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose.

(Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old
one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.)

--
JRE

 

On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote:
> Tegger wrote:
>> jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote:
>>
>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work
>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners...
>>>>
>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're
>>> not infallible.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ain't that the truth.
>>
>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they
>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening
>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by
>> hanging from it, as monkeys do.
>>
>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The
>> plug is not stripped.
>>
>>
>
> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time,
> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord
> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very
> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose.
>
> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old
> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.)
>

[much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory
oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft
aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a
thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk.

 

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:50:36 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 01/01/2010 01:40 PM, Guy wrote:
>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 12:46:28 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/01/2010 12:25 PM, Guy wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:05:17 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
>>>> <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article<mgurj5leh45saqfk9jdeon1uropu5kjq19@4ax.com >,
>>>>> "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course I'll read / re-read parts of the manual. I
>>>>>> remember the sales person mentioning something about a reminder
>>>>>> light??
>>>>>
>>>>> wow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Spend $25,000 and you don't read the manual first thing, and you don't
>>>>> pay attention when the guy shows you details?
>>>>>
>>>>> wow.
>>>>
>>>> I guess you haven't bought a new vehicle lately. If you did, you
>>>> might have more important things on your mind at the time of purchase
>>>> then the maintenance minder. Besides it's in the manual to read,
>>>> right? Then no big deal as I see it.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, it's called Maintenance Minder. It will show a letter/number
>>>>> combination when maintenance is due, and you look in the owner's manual
>>>>> (yes, there's that nasty word again) to find out what services are
>>>>> associated with that combination.
>>>>>
>>>>> What you DON'T do is blindly walk into a dealer and tell them "I have B3
>>>>> due" and let the dealer define what should be done. That's just license
>>>>> to steal. Do what the owner's manual says.
>>>>
>>>> I will.
>>>>>
>>>>> And ignore the maintenance minder at your own risk, frankly--be that
>>>>> mechanical risk to the car, or financial risk to your wallet.
>>>>
>>>> I do on my Accord and no problem. I do oil changes religiously at
>>>> 3500 miles despite what the maintenance light says on my accord. So
>>>> far it's runs well. Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and
>>>> still no problems. I don't recommend abusing them but I don't think
>>>> you need to follow the manual to the T either. I babied a Chevy I
>>>> bought new once and it was a lemon from day one. I think the manual
>>>> is a great guide but not a bible as some people make it out to be
>>>> here. I think judgement is always a good thing.
>>>
>>> so, you're going to do analysis and get some numbers on which to base
>>> your judgment?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I was hoping
>>>> people here had some but apparently not.
>>>
>>> some people here /do/ have numbers. and experience. but you don't seem
>>> to think that matters.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I guess they just follow
>>>> the manual blindly without judgement. Engineers are good but they
>>>> aren't gods.
>>>
>>> as opposed to a guy with no numbers and no experience? that's retarded.
>>>
>>> bottom line dude - it's your car - you do what you want. but don't ask
>>> advice if you don't want to hear it. and you have no business getting
>>> offended if people have a negative reaction to you dismissing their
>>> correct advice as of no consequence.
>>
>>
>> You seem to have a high opinion of yourself.
>
>because i had the temerity to point the illogicality of your argument?
>i think you're confused about what "high opinion" means.
>
>
>> I also have experience
>> tho I don't claim to know it all. Numbers are fine
>
>but you intend to ignore them anyway!
>
>
>> and I think the
>> manual is a great "guide" and in the absence of real life experiences
>> will use it but that's what I am seeking from others.... real life
>> experiences.
>
>right.
>
>now, to test your logical reasoning abilities, if you baby a chevy but
>it's still a piece of s., and you baby a honda which works perfectly,
>what does that tell you about the efficacy of your treatment program?
>how does that contrast with the effect of design, build quality and the
>respective manufacturers?
>
>
> > Yes, I do listen to people just like I'm listening to
>> you.
>
>yeah right!
>
>
>>
>> Maybe you haven't been around a long time on the net (???) but I
>> recall reading elsewhere, some thought the manuals are over
>> conservative and some even accused the manuals of trying to get people
>> to bring their cars in for service more than needed to make money for
>> that mfgr.
>
>so, yet again, you want to ignore the contents of the owner manual.
>
>
>> So not knowing the truth,
>
>dude, that's your weakest argument yet. the "truth" in in the owners
>manual. you just spent $25k on one - remember?
>
>
>> I was seeking other's advice
>> besides reading the manual.
>
>why? you don't know for sure the qualifications of a single person
>here. unlike the manufacturer of course.
>
>
>> And yes I will read/re-read the manual in
>> parts. Perhaps you misunderstand my intentions????
>
>well, the written evidence of your intentions is that you're hell-bent
>on ignoring what anyone tells you unless it agrees with what you think
>you already know. furthermore, there is no evidence that you're
>prepared to learn anything new. unless you don't mean what you wrote!


Jim, I give up on trying to explain further. I tried.
Honestly I smiled at some of your reply here. When you say some of
this stuff, please look in the mirror before you hit the enter key.

 

On 01/01/2010 05:22 PM, Guy wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:50:36 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 01/01/2010 01:40 PM, Guy wrote:
>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 12:46:28 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:25 PM, Guy wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:05:17 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
>>>>> <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article<mgurj5leh45saqfk9jdeon1uropu5kjq19@4ax.com >,
>>>>>> "Guy"<void@void.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course I'll read / re-read parts of the manual. I
>>>>>>> remember the sales person mentioning something about a reminder
>>>>>>> light??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Spend $25,000 and you don't read the manual first thing, and you don't
>>>>>> pay attention when the guy shows you details?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wow.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess you haven't bought a new vehicle lately. If you did, you
>>>>> might have more important things on your mind at the time of purchase
>>>>> then the maintenance minder. Besides it's in the manual to read,
>>>>> right? Then no big deal as I see it.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, it's called Maintenance Minder. It will show a letter/number
>>>>>> combination when maintenance is due, and you look in the owner's manual
>>>>>> (yes, there's that nasty word again) to find out what services are
>>>>>> associated with that combination.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What you DON'T do is blindly walk into a dealer and tell them "I have B3
>>>>>> due" and let the dealer define what should be done. That's just license
>>>>>> to steal. Do what the owner's manual says.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And ignore the maintenance minder at your own risk, frankly--be that
>>>>>> mechanical risk to the car, or financial risk to your wallet.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do on my Accord and no problem. I do oil changes religiously at
>>>>> 3500 miles despite what the maintenance light says on my accord. So
>>>>> far it's runs well. Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and
>>>>> still no problems. I don't recommend abusing them but I don't think
>>>>> you need to follow the manual to the T either. I babied a Chevy I
>>>>> bought new once and it was a lemon from day one. I think the manual
>>>>> is a great guide but not a bible as some people make it out to be
>>>>> here. I think judgement is always a good thing.
>>>>
>>>> so, you're going to do analysis and get some numbers on which to base
>>>> your judgment?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I was hoping
>>>>> people here had some but apparently not.
>>>>
>>>> some people here /do/ have numbers. and experience. but you don't seem
>>>> to think that matters.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I guess they just follow
>>>>> the manual blindly without judgement. Engineers are good but they
>>>>> aren't gods.
>>>>
>>>> as opposed to a guy with no numbers and no experience? that's retarded.
>>>>
>>>> bottom line dude - it's your car - you do what you want. but don't ask
>>>> advice if you don't want to hear it. and you have no business getting
>>>> offended if people have a negative reaction to you dismissing their
>>>> correct advice as of no consequence.
>>>
>>>
>>> You seem to have a high opinion of yourself.
>>
>> because i had the temerity to point the illogicality of your argument?
>> i think you're confused about what "high opinion" means.
>>
>>
>>> I also have experience
>>> tho I don't claim to know it all. Numbers are fine
>>
>> but you intend to ignore them anyway!
>>
>>
>>> and I think the
>>> manual is a great "guide" and in the absence of real life experiences
>>> will use it but that's what I am seeking from others.... real life
>>> experiences.
>>
>> right.
>>
>> now, to test your logical reasoning abilities, if you baby a chevy but
>> it's still a piece of s., and you baby a honda which works perfectly,
>> what does that tell you about the efficacy of your treatment program?
>> how does that contrast with the effect of design, build quality and the
>> respective manufacturers?
>>
>>
>>> Yes, I do listen to people just like I'm listening to
>>> you.
>>
>> yeah right!
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Maybe you haven't been around a long time on the net (???) but I
>>> recall reading elsewhere, some thought the manuals are over
>>> conservative and some even accused the manuals of trying to get people
>>> to bring their cars in for service more than needed to make money for
>>> that mfgr.
>>
>> so, yet again, you want to ignore the contents of the owner manual.
>>
>>
>>> So not knowing the truth,
>>
>> dude, that's your weakest argument yet. the "truth" in in the owners
>> manual. you just spent $25k on one - remember?
>>
>>
>>> I was seeking other's advice
>>> besides reading the manual.
>>
>> why? you don't know for sure the qualifications of a single person
>> here. unlike the manufacturer of course.
>>
>>
>>> And yes I will read/re-read the manual in
>>> parts. Perhaps you misunderstand my intentions????
>>
>> well, the written evidence of your intentions is that you're hell-bent
>> on ignoring what anyone tells you unless it agrees with what you think
>> you already know. furthermore, there is no evidence that you're
>> prepared to learn anything new. unless you don't mean what you wrote!
>
>
> Jim, I give up on trying to explain further. I tried.
> Honestly I smiled at some of your reply here. When you say some of
> this stuff, please look in the mirror before you hit the enter key.

how can that /possibly/ help you learn something you don't want to know?

 

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote:
>> Tegger wrote:
>>> jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work
>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners...
>>>>>
>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're
>>>> not infallible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ain't that the truth.
>>>
>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they
>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening
>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by
>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do.
>>>
>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The
>>> plug is not stripped.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time,
>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord
>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very
>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose.
>>
>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old
>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.)
>>
>
>[much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory
>oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft
>aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a
>thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk.


Thanks Jim for your honesty <smile>. At least we can agree here.

 

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:44:34 -0500, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <Xns9CF3876075C87thefrogprince@69.16.185.247>,
> Larry in AZ <usenet2@DELETE.THISljvideo.com> wrote:
>
>> Waiving the right to remain silent, "Guy" <void@void.com> said:
>>
>> > I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly.
>> > What is the proper way?
>>
>> RTFM.
>
>And a fine manual it is.

A thick one too.

 

On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote:
>>> Tegger wrote:
>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in
>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work
>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners...
>>>>>>
>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're
>>>>> not infallible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ain't that the truth.
>>>>
>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they
>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening
>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by
>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The
>>>> plug is not stripped.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time,
>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord
>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very
>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose.
>>>
>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old
>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.)
>>>
>>
>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory
>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft
>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a
>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk.
>
>
> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here.

so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe.

 

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:36:52 -0800, jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote:
>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote:
>>>> Tegger wrote:
>>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work
>>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're
>>>>>> not infallible.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ain't that the truth.
>>>>>
>>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they
>>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening
>>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by
>>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The
>>>>> plug is not stripped.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time,
>>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord
>>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very
>>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose.
>>>>
>>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old
>>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory
>>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft
>>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a
>>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here.
>
>so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe.

Wow, you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't.
I find that NOT hard to believe.

 

jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in news:Kf-
dnQm3zq5jAKPWnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net:


>>
>
> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory
> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft
> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a
> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk.
>



I've used the factory washer and torque setting of 33 ft/lbs (45 Nm) for
close to ten years now. The six years prior to that I mostly used a fiber
washer and 20 ft/lbs.

My suspicion is that oil pan thread stripping is due to /severe/
overtightening, not adherence to the factory setting.

I also suspect the factory beefed up the threads on pans made after 1991 by
using a slightly heavier gauge of steel for the thread insert.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

On 01/01/2010 09:35 PM, Guy wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:36:52 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 01/01/2010 06:23 PM, Guy wrote:
>>> On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:14:37 -0800, jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/01/2010 04:54 PM, JRE wrote:
>>>>> Tegger wrote:
>>>>>> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in
>>>>>> news:rLydnU8pArz__KPWnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>>>>>>> On 01/01/2010 12:38 PM, Joe wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It makes sense to be informed. Talk to the technician doing the work
>>>>>>>> before and after. Make sure they're not cutting corners...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> while the dealer is the safest long term bet, i have to say, they're
>>>>>>> not infallible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ain't that the truth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My own dealer got three years out of the original oil pan. Then they
>>>>>> managed to strip the plug. The monkeys were severely overtightening
>>>>>> the plug, probably by using a combo wrench and tightening it by
>>>>>> hanging from it, as monkeys do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm still running with the replacement pan, sixteen years later. The
>>>>>> plug is not stripped.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The faithfully torqued (with a torque wrench, to spec, every time,
>>>>> without exception, since the car was new) drain plug in my '91 Accord
>>>>> stripped about a year and a half ago. Pretty annoying...and very
>>>>> unusual. But that's why they make self-tapping replacements, I suppose.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Note: I recently got a new torque wrench and checked it against the old
>>>>> one. They're within a foot-pound of each other.)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory
>>>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft
>>>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a
>>>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks Jim for your honesty<smile>. At least we can agree here.
>>
>> so /you/ did the math too??? somehow, i find that hard to believe.
>
> Wow, you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't.
> I find that NOT hard to believe.

"you admit the factory might be wrong but you can't"???

on the basis that you're evidencing an english language "garbage out"
problem, there must also be english language "garbage in" problem with
you too. which explains everything!

 

On 01/02/2010 06:57 AM, Tegger wrote:
> jim beam<me@privacy.net> wrote in news:Kf-
> dnQm3zq5jAKPWnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>
>
>>>
>>
>> [much to the delight of "crv guy" no doubt] i actually disregard factory
>> oil pan plug torque. 45N.m is very high for something with a soft
>> aluminum crush washer under it. i use ~30N.m and have never had a
>> thread strip, nor a plug loosen or leak. replicate at your own risk.
>>
>
>
>
> I've used the factory washer and torque setting of 33 ft/lbs (45 Nm) for
> close to ten years now. The six years prior to that I mostly used a fiber
> washer and 20 ft/lbs.
>
> My suspicion is that oil pan thread stripping is due to /severe/
> overtightening, not adherence to the factory setting.

in my opinion, 45 N.m is over-tightening. two reasons:

1. the oil pan is a relatively soft material - it has to be to be formed
out of a single piece of steel like that. torque near yield, plus
thermal cycling loads - too close for my comfort.

2. the annealed aluminum washer starts out pretty much as soft as the
fiber washer - it seals by deformation filling all the crevices, not by
compression as such.

bottom line - once it's deformed enough to seal, it doesn't need to be
deformed any more. torque similar to the fiber washer is sufficient.

>
> I also suspect the factory beefed up the threads on pans made after 1991 by
> using a slightly heavier gauge of steel for the thread insert.

i'm not sure most of them even have a thread insert. if they did, it
could indeed be a stronger material and higher torque, but that's not
the point - the point is that torque only needs to be sufficient to
cause washer deformation sufficient to seal - and to provide sufficient
friction to prevent loosening. anything over that is excess. honda
have specified a mechanical load torque on a non-mechanical load fastener.