"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
newsxHCk.970$Rx.40@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Space Chimp wrote:
>
>> '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134
>> '09 Accord EX $24,043
>
> Presumably that's for the V6, or it's about $2500 too high.

Hey, do tell. These were not for the V6, but the other dealerships
are not willing to match these prices, and they apparently don't
care if I walk. I'll be glad to pay the above if it's offered again.
If not, I won't buy....don't really need the car that much anyway.
>
>> Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good
>> to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably
>> buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me.
>> (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to
>> him already.)
>
> Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume
> you'll finance, up until the last moment.

And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed
to non-cash price at the last moment?

> Amusing about black being cheaper, as it's the same where I am. They'll
> advertise "6 in stock at this price" and they'll all be black, an they'll
> try to get $750 more for the other colors (and they'll settle for $375, at
> least Autowest Toyota in Fremont would.

He said at first there was a black and white '08, but he later
said the white one sold. We saw one of the '09's on the
lot yesterday for the stated driveout price. It was a
nice light green, and just off the truck.

 

SMS wrote:
>
> Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume
> you'll finance, up until the last moment.

Why's that? (seriously, why?)

Ray
(hoping to learn a new trick)

 

In article <BTSCk.573$4K3.559@newsfe13.iad>,
ray <rollingviolation@domain.invalid.com> wrote:
>SMS wrote:
>>
>> Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume
>> you'll finance, up until the last moment.
>
>Why's that? (seriously, why?)

Because if you get the financeing thru the dealer, they make more $ on
the financing than on the sale of the car.

--
Rich Greenberg N Ft Myers, FL, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 239 543 1353
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red, Shasta & Casey (RIP), Red & Zero, Siberians Owner:Chinook-L
Retired at the beach Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

 

Thus spake richgr@panix.com (Rich Greenberg) :

>In article <BTSCk.573$4K3.559@newsfe13.iad>,
>ray <rollingviolation@domain.invalid.com> wrote:
>>SMS wrote:
>>>
>>> Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume
>>> you'll finance, up until the last moment.
>>
>>Why's that? (seriously, why?)
>
>Because if you get the financeing thru the dealer, they make more $ on
>the financing than on the sale of the car.

Not right now.

 

Dillon Pyron wrote:

> Yeah. I've always done that. We walk in with a folder full of papers
> that we've printed from all over the place. And tell them "okay, this
> is what the check will read".

The car salespeople laugh at those that come in with all those printouts
and sheets thinking that it'll help. They do this every day. You
do it once every 6-12 years. They especially like people that bargain up
from the invoice, since selling at invoice is already a huge profit for
them.

Have the material, but make your price offers from memory. Always make
it a non-round number and let _them_ ask how you arrived at it, don't
offer the information. When you offer $16,709 rather than $16,700 it
puts them on the defensive, trying to figure out where the heck you came
up with that number, when in fact you made it up out of thin air. Be
vague. Mumble about other dealers, other vehicles, Costco,
advertisements for dealers in other metro areas, and so on.

Let them talk about monthly payments, and draw their diagrams with the
four boxes. Inquire about financing, extended warranties, pin-striping,
gold packages, undercoating, glass etching, fabric guard, digital ash
trays, alarms, etc. Bring a sandwich and ask them to get you a
complimentary soda.

Watch "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2bpsyfJJt4".

 

Space Chimp wrote:

> And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed
> to non-cash price at the last moment?

Well legally they can't back out if you decide not to finance, but they
find ways to do so. This happened to me, and I never told them I was
going to finance to begin with. It was an "all in stock at this price"
ad, and clearly what they really meant was "all in stock at this price"
if you finance or buy a warranty. Eventually we prevailed, but it was a
real pain in the butt.

The other thing you can do is to ensure that there is no prepayment
penalties on the loan, and finance it, then pay it off right away. You
don't even have to wait for the payment coupons to be sent to you, you
can find out the loan number, the balance, and send them an electronic
check.

Also remember to make as big of a down payment as they'll allow with a
rewards credit card. Last time I bought a car the max was $5000.

 

Rich Greenberg wrote:
> In article <BTSCk.573$4K3.559@newsfe13.iad>,
> ray <rollingviolation@domain.invalid.com> wrote:
>> SMS wrote:
>>> Too bad. Mentioning a cash sale was not a good move. Let them assume
>>> you'll finance, up until the last moment.
>> Why's that? (seriously, why?)
>
> Because if you get the financeing thru the dealer, they make more $ on
> the financing than on the sale of the car.

Yes, especially if it's through their own financing companies rather
than through the manufacturer's special rate financing.

 

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:QNjDk.1393$x%.484@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Space Chimp wrote:
>
>> And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed
>> to non-cash price at the last moment?
>
> Well legally they can't back out if you decide not to finance, but they
> find ways to do so. This happened to me, and I never told them I was going
> to finance to begin with. It was an "all in stock at this price" ad, and
> clearly what they really meant was "all in stock at this price" if you
> finance or buy a warranty. Eventually we prevailed, but it was a real pain
> in the butt.

I know a lot of those guys are sleazy liars, but they also have to
make a living. I don't want to end up looking as bad as some
of them, with tricky tactics. I ended up paying $24,238 total
driveout price for an '09 Accord EX automatic, and it also
had some of the dealer add-ons. According to Edmunds at
least, I did okay I think. What the hell, we love the car.
(We didn't buy from the original dealership I was complaining
about though.)

 

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 15:05:57 -0400, "Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com>
wrote:

>
>"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
>news:QNjDk.1393$x%.484@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> Space Chimp wrote:
>>
>>> And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed
>>> to non-cash price at the last moment?
>>
>> Well legally they can't back out if you decide not to finance, but they
>> find ways to do so. This happened to me, and I never told them I was going
>> to finance to begin with. It was an "all in stock at this price" ad, and
>> clearly what they really meant was "all in stock at this price" if you
>> finance or buy a warranty. Eventually we prevailed, but it was a real pain
>> in the butt.
>
>I know a lot of those guys are sleazy liars, but they also have to
>make a living. I don't want to end up looking as bad as some
>of them, with tricky tactics. I ended up paying $24,238 total
>driveout price for an '09 Accord EX automatic, and it also
>had some of the dealer add-ons. According to Edmunds at
>least, I did okay I think. What the hell, we love the car.
>(We didn't buy from the original dealership I was complaining
>about though.)
>
The thing about dealerships is that they're a dime a dozen, just like
every other commodity in the world. If you don't like one for any
reason, walk away and don't look back.

 

You have received good advice. Use Edmunds to come up with what you are
willing to pay and then figure the sales tax. If the dealer agrees, he
should write up a sales agreement that comes up to that total. That's what
you sign and he/she signs. You then have a contract.

When you make an offer, the sales person will give the BS that he has to
have his sales manager review it. So the sales dweeb goes in the backroom,
spaknks hsis monkey, and comes back with a counter offer with some BS that
the color you want is in high demand. Tell hm no deal.

The first Honda I bought in 1979 was in such high demand I paid $500 over
sticker and had to take whatever color that came in. So I got the color no
one wanted - beige. When I went to pick up the car, the saleman gave me a
new contract to sign that was a couple of bucks higher than the original.
The salesman said it was for gas in the tank. I told him we had an
agreement and he was welcome to take some of the gas out of the tank. Safe
to say, I drove it away at the original contract price. But the dealer made
an extra $500 on the deal anyway.

"Space Chimp" <SC@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:n4sCk.40207$vX2.14549@bignews6.bellsouth.net. ..
>
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:mz7Ck.1186$ZP4.601@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> Space Chimp wrote:
>>> Okay, through e-mail and phone, sales is giving me invoice for the car
>>> itself, and
>>> of course there are the unavoidables like sales tax, title charges and
>>> destination
>>> charge, but what bugs me are the added crap like the $500-600 "customer
>>> service" or "doc fee" or whatever they dress it up as, and the dealer
>>> add-on
>>> ripoff junk (usually well over $500; often $800 or so--"special"
>>> coatings or
>>> other such snake oil, overpriced mudflaps, etc.)
>>
>> It's simply "ADM" additional dealer mark-up that they call fees like "doc
>> fee" or "dealer prep" or "closing fee" to make it appear as if it is
>> non-negotiable. I've never seen a "customer service fee" but they can
>> come up with all sorts of creative names.
>>
>> Rather than argue about them, simply subtract the fees from your offer
>> price. Invoice price is no great deal to begin with on a Honda, so just
>> add up all the fees and subtract them from the invoice price (if that's
>> really what you're willing to pay). There is no shortage of Accords.
>>
>> What state are you in?
>
> I'm in GA, Atlanta metro area. Thanks for the feedback guys, it
> was educational.
>
> Here's the deal. The sales guy has e-mailed me with drive-out
> prices:
>
> '08 Accord EX (black) $23,134
> '09 Accord EX $24,043
>
> Keep in mind these are drive-out prices. They sound good
> to me. I'm about to go over and take a look, and probably
> buy one, unless he hasn't been completely upfront with me.
> (BTW, cash sale so no financing, which I mentioned to
> him already.)
>
>

 

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:QNjDk.1393$x%.484@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Space Chimp wrote:
>
>> And you think they would have any problem backing out of the agreed
>> to non-cash price at the last moment?
>
> Well legally they can't back out if you decide not to finance, but they
> find ways to do so.

Depends on the situation. Before the dotted lines are signed, several
lines
of management can veto the sale.

Once a deal is made and authenticated, you have legal grounds for a lawsuit.

Really, guys, it isnt this difficult. These people want to sell cars.
Find someone
you can work with.

 

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message news:PIjDk.1391
>
> The car salespeople laugh at those that come in with all those printouts
> and sheets thinking that it'll help. They do this every day. You do
> it once every 6-12 years. They especially like people that bargain up from
> the invoice, since selling at invoice is already a huge profit for them.

Buying a car at the best price is like playing a poker hand. You will NEVER
get a $25,000 car for $11, 000.

Be smart, be reasonable.

The invoice price, as I posted earlier, is total bullshit. It is NOT an
invoice price.

If you cant afford a new car, buy Cuhulin's old van. If you CAN, negociate
for
the best deal you can get and then go with it.

 

not one of you "experts" posted the one idea that works well, since
the advent of the WWW, most dealers have internet sales depts.
These guys will respond to internet queries and you aren't limited to
shopping for a car by geography. I have saved tons of money by
shopping for a car online and then driving 100-300 miles for delivery.
I live in FLA and bought my last car in NJ, they were willing to ship
the car as part of the deal and I saved over 6k from what my local
dealerships wanted for the car.
The moral to the story is that you do't need to run around to the
dealerships, sit there and suffer their silly tactics when you can sit
at home at shop for the car you want from any dealership in the
country and possibly find a great deal without leaving your house.

__________________________________________
Never argue with an idiot.
They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

 

On 9/29/08 8:02 AM, in article 54k1e4l39pgr7uo54qh6shfmqglno8mhfn@4ax.com,
"jdoe" <jdoe@aol.com> wrote:

> not one of you "experts" posted the one idea that works well, since
> the advent of the WWW, most dealers have internet sales depts.
> These guys will respond to internet queries and you aren't limited to
> shopping for a car by geography. I have saved tons of money by
> shopping for a car online and then driving 100-300 miles for delivery.
> I live in FLA and bought my last car in NJ, they were willing to ship
> the car as part of the deal and I saved over 6k from what my local
> dealerships wanted for the car.
> The moral to the story is that you do't need to run around to the
> dealerships, sit there and suffer their silly tactics when you can sit
> at home at shop for the car you want from any dealership in the
> country and possibly find a great deal without leaving your house.
>
> __________________________________________
> Never argue with an idiot.
> They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I have had luck in the past getting the best internet quote from wherever
and then taking it to the local dealer to match or beat. They usually will.

This past summer when I was in the market for a new car I found five of six
dealers queried did not even bother to respond to requests for internet
quotes. I don't know if they are wising up to it or just too lazy to be
bothered.

The one thing I always do is deal to the bottom line - the number I am going
to write on my check. If they want to load on this that or the other
gratuitous fee, its coming out of somebody's commission.

 

E Meyer <epmeyer50@msn.com> wrote:
> On 9/29/08 8:02 AM, in article
> 54k1e4l39pgr7uo54qh6shfmqglno8mhfn@4ax.com, "jdoe" <jdoe@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> not one of you "experts" posted the one idea that works well, since
>> the advent of the WWW, most dealers have internet sales depts.
>> These guys will respond to internet queries and you aren't limited to
>> shopping for a car by geography. I have saved tons of money by
>> shopping for a car online and then driving 100-300 miles for
>> delivery. I live in FLA and bought my last car in NJ, they were
>> willing to ship the car as part of the deal and I saved over 6k from
>> what my local dealerships wanted for the car.
>> The moral to the story is that you do't need to run around to the
>> dealerships, sit there and suffer their silly tactics when you can
>> sit at home at shop for the car you want from any dealership in the
>> country and possibly find a great deal without leaving your house.
>>
>> __________________________________________
>> Never argue with an idiot.
>> They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
>
> I have had luck in the past getting the best internet quote from
> wherever and then taking it to the local dealer to match or beat.
> They usually will.

Yeah, thats what I did. The local dealer did claim that he was paying
a slightly higher delivery charge for the cars than those in the state
capitals were paying and that turned out to be correct and when that
small increase was a lot less than it would have cost me to fly to the
state capital to pick up the car, it was well worth getting it locally and
not risking them trying to play silly buggers on warranty claims.

Turned out that I didnt have any warranty claims at all, not one.

> This past summer when I was in the market for a new car I found five
> of six dealers queried did not even bother to respond to requests for
> internet quotes. I don't know if they are wising up to it or just
> too lazy to be bothered.

> The one thing I always do is deal to the bottom line - the number I
> am going to write on my check. If they want to load on this that or
> the other gratuitous fee, its coming out of somebody's commission.