On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 20:00:49 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> The SE is a pretty nice unit. I test drove one a few days ago. The new
> Camry nose is damn ugly,

Thank you! I looked at one on the lot Saturday and that was the
immediate impression I got.

Don't they have anyone to help with their styling?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:09:20 -0700, SoCalMike
<Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote:

> eveything ive read from people in the rust belt here indicate that
> rear discs arent worth it, compared to the maintenance needed on em.

Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
drum?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:09:20 -0700, SoCalMike
<Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote:

> eveything ive read from people in the rust belt here indicate that
> rear discs arent worth it, compared to the maintenance needed on em.

Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
drum?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:09:20 -0700, SoCalMike
<Mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote:

> eveything ive read from people in the rust belt here indicate that
> rear discs arent worth it, compared to the maintenance needed on em.

Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
drum?
+-----------------------------------------+
| Charles Lasitter | Mailing/Shipping |
| 401/728-1987 | 14 Cooke St |
| cl+at+ncdm+dot+com | Pawtucket RI 02860 |
+-----------------------------------------+

 

"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:ds8m42hfdet1opmvjj5s5ehl6unvvodam6@4ax.com...
>
> Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
> drum?

Not for the Accord, but
http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farm...pping_power_2/ addresses the
subject in heavy trucks and says:
"Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
powerful air chambers and larger friction material."

Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum cars
in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O

Mike

 

"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:ds8m42hfdet1opmvjj5s5ehl6unvvodam6@4ax.com...
>
> Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
> drum?

Not for the Accord, but
http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farm...pping_power_2/ addresses the
subject in heavy trucks and says:
"Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
powerful air chambers and larger friction material."

Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum cars
in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O

Mike

 

"Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
news:ds8m42hfdet1opmvjj5s5ehl6unvvodam6@4ax.com...
>
> Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
> drum?

Not for the Accord, but
http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farm...pping_power_2/ addresses the
subject in heavy trucks and says:
"Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
powerful air chambers and larger friction material."

Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum cars
in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O

Mike

 

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> "Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
> news:ds8m42hfdet1opmvjj5s5ehl6unvvodam6@4ax.com...
> >
> > Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
> > drum?
>
> Not for the Accord, but
> http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farm...pping_power_2/ addresses the
> subject in heavy trucks and says:
> "Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
> test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
> outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
> powerful air chambers and larger friction material."
>
> Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
> fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum cars
> in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O
>
> Mike



As one that has been driving automobiles for over fifty years, I concur
with your statement.

But the biggest factor regarding safety is usually the nut behind the
wheel and all the advances in technology cannot defeat stupidity.

Defensive driving is what it's all about...

JT

 

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> "Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
> news:ds8m42hfdet1opmvjj5s5ehl6unvvodam6@4ax.com...
> >
> > Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
> > drum?
>
> Not for the Accord, but
> http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farm...pping_power_2/ addresses the
> subject in heavy trucks and says:
> "Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
> test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
> outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
> powerful air chambers and larger friction material."
>
> Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
> fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum cars
> in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O
>
> Mike



As one that has been driving automobiles for over fifty years, I concur
with your statement.

But the biggest factor regarding safety is usually the nut behind the
wheel and all the advances in technology cannot defeat stupidity.

Defensive driving is what it's all about...

JT

 

Michael Pardee wrote:
>
> "Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
> news:ds8m42hfdet1opmvjj5s5ehl6unvvodam6@4ax.com...
> >
> > Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
> > drum?
>
> Not for the Accord, but
> http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farm...pping_power_2/ addresses the
> subject in heavy trucks and says:
> "Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
> test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
> outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
> powerful air chambers and larger friction material."
>
> Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
> fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum cars
> in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O
>
> Mike



As one that has been driving automobiles for over fifty years, I concur
with your statement.

But the biggest factor regarding safety is usually the nut behind the
wheel and all the advances in technology cannot defeat stupidity.

Defensive driving is what it's all about...

JT

 

"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpster@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message
news:444BAC35.E9903B9@GrumpyvilleNOT.com...
>
>
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>> "Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
>> news:ds8m42hfdet1opmvjj5s5ehl6unvvodam6@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
>> > drum?
>>
>> Not for the Accord, but
>> http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farm...pping_power_2/ addresses the
>> subject in heavy trucks and says:
>> "Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
>> test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
>> outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
>> powerful air chambers and larger friction material."
>>
>> Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
>> fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum
>> cars
>> in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O
>>
>> Mike
>
>
>
> As one that has been driving automobiles for over fifty years, I concur
> with your statement.
>
> But the biggest factor regarding safety is usually the nut behind the
> wheel and all the advances in technology cannot defeat stupidity.
>
> Defensive driving is what it's all about...
>
> JT

Oh, yeah. Backing off 5 mph on speed has wonderful effects on both the time
available for reaction and on stopping distance... not to mention
maneuvering stability. And just listening to that voice that says, "hey...
what's happening there?" is a lifesaver.

Mike

 

"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpster@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message
news:444BAC35.E9903B9@GrumpyvilleNOT.com...
>
>
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>> "Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
>> news:ds8m42hfdet1opmvjj5s5ehl6unvvodam6@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
>> > drum?
>>
>> Not for the Accord, but
>> http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farm...pping_power_2/ addresses the
>> subject in heavy trucks and says:
>> "Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
>> test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
>> outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
>> powerful air chambers and larger friction material."
>>
>> Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
>> fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum
>> cars
>> in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O
>>
>> Mike
>
>
>
> As one that has been driving automobiles for over fifty years, I concur
> with your statement.
>
> But the biggest factor regarding safety is usually the nut behind the
> wheel and all the advances in technology cannot defeat stupidity.
>
> Defensive driving is what it's all about...
>
> JT

Oh, yeah. Backing off 5 mph on speed has wonderful effects on both the time
available for reaction and on stopping distance... not to mention
maneuvering stability. And just listening to that voice that says, "hey...
what's happening there?" is a lifesaver.

Mike

 

"Grumpy AuContraire" <Grumpster@GrumpyvilleNOT.com> wrote in message
news:444BAC35.E9903B9@GrumpyvilleNOT.com...
>
>
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>> "Charles Lasitter" <spoof@address.com> wrote in message
>> news:ds8m42hfdet1opmvjj5s5ehl6unvvodam6@4ax.com...
>> >
>> > Anyone have stopping distances for an Accord LX model with rear disk vs
>> > drum?
>>
>> Not for the Accord, but
>> http://farmindustrynews.com/mag/farm...pping_power_2/ addresses the
>> subject in heavy trucks and says:
>> "Last December, ArvinMeritor brought a group of journalists to a research
>> test track in Ohio, where the company demonstrated that drum brakes can
>> outperform discs in a 60-mph emergency stop, if they are fitted with more
>> powerful air chambers and larger friction material."
>>
>> Makes sense to me. The big performance advantage discs have over drums is
>> fade resistance, not emergency stopping power. I've driven 4-wheel drum
>> cars
>> in hills enough to know what fading is like <8^O
>>
>> Mike
>
>
>
> As one that has been driving automobiles for over fifty years, I concur
> with your statement.
>
> But the biggest factor regarding safety is usually the nut behind the
> wheel and all the advances in technology cannot defeat stupidity.
>
> Defensive driving is what it's all about...
>
> JT

Oh, yeah. Backing off 5 mph on speed has wonderful effects on both the time
available for reaction and on stopping distance... not to mention
maneuvering stability. And just listening to that voice that says, "hey...
what's happening there?" is a lifesaver.

Mike

 

"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:6m4e42tm1vvaa38a2f3jco3tluvsqu5j7c@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:01:28 -0400, Charles Lasitter
> <spoof@address.com> wrote:
>
>>It seems that if you want really good safety features with a Honda,
>>you've got to go out and spend big bucks for a bunch of stuff you may
>>not want or need, and I think this is unfortunate.
>>
>>I've got an '05 Accord LX, which I like, but it seems that the best
>>safety features aren't available unless you drop the big change for the
>>EX 6-cyl.
>>
>>I'd love to get an EX i4 with:
>>
>>Traction Control
>
> Buy an extra set of wheels and switch between winter tires and summer
> tires. You will have all the traction control you need.

No, it's *not* the same thing.

>>Stability Control
>
> Not sure if I would like that or not.

Have you tried it? The best systems are the ones that allow some sideways
movement *cough* and bring you back into line gently and without slapping
your wrists.

BMW manage it, at least in the UK.

Mercedes, Lexus - don't. Indeed I believe the Mercedes car rings your
mother to tell you how naughty you've been...

>>Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
>
> How is this different from ABS?

EBD takes over where the rear brake force valve left off. It compensates
for weight in the car and allows greater rear braking effort, which can and
does shorten stopping distances. One of the great compromises in car design
is how to set up the brakes. For optimum braking, the valve that reduces
rear braking effort should be set such that all four wheels are at the point
of locking up at the same time with the same pedal effort from the driver.
Manual systems are set up to be close to this (with a margin for error) when
the car is one up, with some standardised conditions such as weather, tyre
design and pressure. When you're five up plus luggage, the rear wheels
could be braked rather more so.

EBD takes care of this for you. It also takes care of unusual pressure
differences, say, a front tyre being low in pressure and / or a rear being
unusually high in pressure.

>>Emergency Brake Assist, and also,
>
> If you mean something that helps you slam on the brakes, I'l pass. I
> don't need a computer to second guess how much brake pressure I want
> to apply.

No, it doesn't quite work like this. They are set up very well. It
monitors what you're doing and if it thinks you really mean to stop quicker
than you are doing so, it takes over.

If you accelerate firmly and then punch the brake pedal, it increases the
force applied. That combined with ABS and EBD can make the difference
between hitting the child that runs out in front of you and not.

99.9% of people, 99.9% of the time, won't trigger EBA.

>>DRL
>
> Turn your headlights on.

Different bulbs, different reflectors...

>>4-wheel disk brakes (items not available on my '05 LX)
>
> Surprised that Honda is still using drum brakes on the Accord.
> Anyway, I don't think these add much to safety.

That may depend on where you live and how the car is driven. Driven five up
in hilly terrain I can see how you'd want the greatest safety margin
possible.

>>But it looks like I'd have to also end up paying for XM radio, dual zone
>>climate control, glass roof, etc., etc ... whether I need them or not.
>>
>>I think the revamped i4 has plenty of horsepower for most dedicated
>>stick drivers, unless you happen to be hauling a carload of large adults
>>or something.
>>
>>Would anyone else buy these safety features for a relative few thousand
>>extra dollars, or am I alone in this?

I can see their use. Personally, I'd get somebody else to pay for them, and
I'd buy the car used.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com

 

"Gordon McGrew" <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:6m4e42tm1vvaa38a2f3jco3tluvsqu5j7c@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:01:28 -0400, Charles Lasitter
> <spoof@address.com> wrote:
>
>>It seems that if you want really good safety features with a Honda,
>>you've got to go out and spend big bucks for a bunch of stuff you may
>>not want or need, and I think this is unfortunate.
>>
>>I've got an '05 Accord LX, which I like, but it seems that the best
>>safety features aren't available unless you drop the big change for the
>>EX 6-cyl.
>>
>>I'd love to get an EX i4 with:
>>
>>Traction Control
>
> Buy an extra set of wheels and switch between winter tires and summer
> tires. You will have all the traction control you need.

No, it's *not* the same thing.

>>Stability Control
>
> Not sure if I would like that or not.

Have you tried it? The best systems are the ones that allow some sideways
movement *cough* and bring you back into line gently and without slapping
your wrists.

BMW manage it, at least in the UK.

Mercedes, Lexus - don't. Indeed I believe the Mercedes car rings your
mother to tell you how naughty you've been...

>>Electronic Brakeforce Distribution
>
> How is this different from ABS?

EBD takes over where the rear brake force valve left off. It compensates
for weight in the car and allows greater rear braking effort, which can and
does shorten stopping distances. One of the great compromises in car design
is how to set up the brakes. For optimum braking, the valve that reduces
rear braking effort should be set such that all four wheels are at the point
of locking up at the same time with the same pedal effort from the driver.
Manual systems are set up to be close to this (with a margin for error) when
the car is one up, with some standardised conditions such as weather, tyre
design and pressure. When you're five up plus luggage, the rear wheels
could be braked rather more so.

EBD takes care of this for you. It also takes care of unusual pressure
differences, say, a front tyre being low in pressure and / or a rear being
unusually high in pressure.

>>Emergency Brake Assist, and also,
>
> If you mean something that helps you slam on the brakes, I'l pass. I
> don't need a computer to second guess how much brake pressure I want
> to apply.

No, it doesn't quite work like this. They are set up very well. It
monitors what you're doing and if it thinks you really mean to stop quicker
than you are doing so, it takes over.

If you accelerate firmly and then punch the brake pedal, it increases the
force applied. That combined with ABS and EBD can make the difference
between hitting the child that runs out in front of you and not.

99.9% of people, 99.9% of the time, won't trigger EBA.

>>DRL
>
> Turn your headlights on.

Different bulbs, different reflectors...

>>4-wheel disk brakes (items not available on my '05 LX)
>
> Surprised that Honda is still using drum brakes on the Accord.
> Anyway, I don't think these add much to safety.

That may depend on where you live and how the car is driven. Driven five up
in hilly terrain I can see how you'd want the greatest safety margin
possible.

>>But it looks like I'd have to also end up paying for XM radio, dual zone
>>climate control, glass roof, etc., etc ... whether I need them or not.
>>
>>I think the revamped i4 has plenty of horsepower for most dedicated
>>stick drivers, unless you happen to be hauling a carload of large adults
>>or something.
>>
>>Would anyone else buy these safety features for a relative few thousand
>>extra dollars, or am I alone in this?

I can see their use. Personally, I'd get somebody else to pay for them, and
I'd buy the car used.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com