"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:cuRQh.4598$qE2.3700@trndny09...
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:27:53 +0000, Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>
>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>
>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>> Since
>> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
>> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
>> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>> it.
>
>
> Thanks to everyone who responded! Ray O wins the prize: It looks like a
> collapsed Hydraulic Lash Adjuster. These look pretty easy to remove and
> replace, but I have found a number of resources on the web as to how to
> clean them.
>
> Also, I will try the 'lazy man's' way suggested by another poster, ie
> adding ATF or Marvel Oil before the next oil change. It was due in 500
> more miles anyway, so I'll try 'flushing' it and see what happens. One
> method suggests simply sliding the rockers and pulling the HLAs out and
> cleaning them, another prescribes removing the rocker cams and arms and a
> thorough cleaning. Since the car is so clean, I will probably do this
> after I park it for the summer!
>
> Pray for me...(I can be a Gumby at times!)
>
If the lifters are easy to pull, let them soak overnight in solvent or
kerosene and re-install.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:46:52 +0000, Remove This wrote:

Oh, My God!!!!


> " ya gotta let it out, Captain! " ( Jaime Brockett )


So the Captain, he let it all out at once....

Prone right down on the wheelhouse floor...oh, this brings us up to what's
happenin' again, folks!

The Titanic, she's sailing around in and out between the icebergs;
The _______ people are having parties and trading wives, Cadillacs and
diamonds;
The sail people are hoistin' up landlubbers and battenin' down hatches;
The First Mate's hangin' over the rail havin' himself a little smoke and
diggin' the icebergs;

AND THE CAPTAIN'S OUT COLD ON THE WHEELHOUSE FLOOR!!!!!!!!!


(that last line was my yearbook quote...!)

 

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:35:22 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>>> It's a very light oil, red in color and smells a bit funky, but with
>>> returns like that I'm a believer! It's kind of like ATF. I add it to
>>> everything now...snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. When I park my power
>>> equipment for the summer/winter, I spray a little into the spark plug
>>> hole to keep the cylinders and valves from rusting.
>>>
>> so what's in it? if you don't know, you're out of your mind using it.
>>
>> and a corolla engine will do 259,000 miles on walmart house brand oil, let
>> alone gtx. ascribing longevity to something on which you have no testing,
>> no controls and which is proven unnecessary is quite ridiculous.
>
>
> That's OK. It works for me! Last compression check I did, all the
> cylinders were between 120-125 PSI. Considering that's what they were in
> 1991 when the car was six years old, I'd say that's pretty good.
>
> There are a lot of people who use MMO regularly, and most of them are
> driving high-mileage vehicles, Japanese or not. (One I know has an '88
> Chevy truck with 350,000 miles on it, and has never had to mess with the
> engine)
>
>
i'll ask again, do you know what's in it?

now read this:
http://skepdic.com/slick50.html

in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact. if
you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the
quality of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively
over-priced xylene solvent.

 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:45:55 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:35:22 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>
>>>> It's a very light oil, red in color and smells a bit funky, but with
>>>> returns like that I'm a believer! It's kind of like ATF. I add it to
>>>> everything now...snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. When I park my power
>>>> equipment for the summer/winter, I spray a little into the spark plug
>>>> hole to keep the cylinders and valves from rusting.
>>>>
>>> so what's in it? if you don't know, you're out of your mind using it.
>>>
>>> and a corolla engine will do 259,000 miles on walmart house brand oil,
>>> let alone gtx. ascribing longevity to something on which you have no
>>> testing, no controls and which is proven unnecessary is quite
>>> ridiculous.
>>
>>
>> That's OK. It works for me! Last compression check I did, all the
>> cylinders were between 120-125 PSI. Considering that's what they were in
>> 1991 when the car was six years old, I'd say that's pretty good.
>>
>> There are a lot of people who use MMO regularly, and most of them are
>> driving high-mileage vehicles, Japanese or not. (One I know has an '88
>> Chevy truck with 350,000 miles on it, and has never had to mess with the
>> engine)
>>
>>
> i'll ask again, do you know what's in it?
>
> now read this:
> http://skepdic.com/slick50.html
>
> in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact. if
> you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the quality
> of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively over-priced xylene
> solvent.


And here's one for you:

http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/...l-mystery-oil/

 

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:45:55 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:35:22 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It's a very light oil, red in color and smells a bit funky, but with
>>>>> returns like that I'm a believer! It's kind of like ATF. I add it to
>>>>> everything now...snowblowers, lawnmowers, etc. When I park my power
>>>>> equipment for the summer/winter, I spray a little into the spark plug
>>>>> hole to keep the cylinders and valves from rusting.
>>>>>
>>>> so what's in it? if you don't know, you're out of your mind using it.
>>>>
>>>> and a corolla engine will do 259,000 miles on walmart house brand oil,
>>>> let alone gtx. ascribing longevity to something on which you have no
>>>> testing, no controls and which is proven unnecessary is quite
>>>> ridiculous.
>>>
>>> That's OK. It works for me! Last compression check I did, all the
>>> cylinders were between 120-125 PSI. Considering that's what they were in
>>> 1991 when the car was six years old, I'd say that's pretty good.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of people who use MMO regularly, and most of them are
>>> driving high-mileage vehicles, Japanese or not. (One I know has an '88
>>> Chevy truck with 350,000 miles on it, and has never had to mess with the
>>> engine)
>>>
>>>
>> i'll ask again, do you know what's in it?
>>
>> now read this:
>> http://skepdic.com/slick50.html
>>
>> in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact. if
>> you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the quality
>> of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively over-priced xylene
>> solvent.
>
>
> And here's one for you:
>
> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/...l-mystery-oil/

am i missing something? how does vintage poster art /not/ make your
over-paying for wear-increasing solvents proof of gullibility?

 

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>
> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
> I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
> of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
> circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
> it.
>
> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>
> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>
> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
> (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
> while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
> Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
> parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
> still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>
> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
> what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
> questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
> the clacking.
>
>
>
I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time I had
to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't without risk,
since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and now they're pushing a
whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or more were collapsed the
others were in similar shape. I got rid of the car for other reasons a few
months later.

I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would have been
good enough for a few months :-(

Mike

 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
>
>>I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>>individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>>common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>
>>The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>>on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover. Since
>>I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic lifters
>>of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm and
>>circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>>responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>>didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>>it.
>>
>>Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>>Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>
>>This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>>returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>>and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>>Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>
>>Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol Synthetic
>>(the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run for a
>>while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of Marvel
>>Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away. After
>>parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the clacking was
>>still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>
>>The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>><3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>>when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is or
>>what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer more
>>questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even with
>>the clacking.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time I had
> to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't without risk,
> since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and now they're pushing a
> whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or more were collapsed the
> others were in similar shape. I got rid of the car for other reasons a few
> months later.
>
> I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would have been
> good enough for a few months :-(
>
> Mike
>


I agree. Once a lifter becomes noisy, it's time to bite the bullet and
replace 'em all.

Regarding "fitting to the cam," well that's another issue nowadays since
modern motor oils tend not to support good lubrication of direct
contact engine parts (also due to EPA restrictions). So far, diesel
rated lubricants still have the additives to prevent wear on direct
contact engine components.

Roller lifters available for vintage cars including Honda anyone?

JT

(Who's manual calls for motor oil for the tranny which is also a no-no
these days...)

 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:25:59 -0700, jim beam wrote:

>>> now read this:
>>> http://skepdic.com/slick50.html
>>>
>>> in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact.
>>> if you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the
>>> quality of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively
>>> over-priced xylene solvent.
>>
>>
>> And here's one for you:
>>
>> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/...l-mystery-oil/
>
> am i missing something? how does vintage poster art /not/ make your
> over-paying for wear-increasing solvents proof of gullibility?


I just thought you'd like the association with what looks like an Atomic
Bomb...

 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 20:45:55 -0700, jim beam wrote:

>> There are a lot of people who use MMO regularly, and most of them are
>> driving high-mileage vehicles, Japanese or not. (One I know has an '88
>> Chevy truck with 350,000 miles on it, and has never had to mess with the
>> engine)
>>
>>
> i'll ask again, do you know what's in it?
>
> now read this:
> http://skepdic.com/slick50.html
>
> in your case, excess solvent will /increase/ metal to metal contact. if
> you get decent mileage and compression, that's a testament to the quality
> of toyota motors and castrol oil, /not/ your massively over-priced xylene
> solvent.


I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!

 

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...

>
> I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
> drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
> taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>
>
>

I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to return.
Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you are far from
home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it is mighty
attractive.

I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
bearings and such though.

Mike

 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:32:23 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:JYiQh.8917$IY4.8369@trndny03...
>> I'm crossing this to Honda and Toyota because there are some sharp
>> individuals in these groups, and also in the Ford group since this is a
>> common engine among Fords, IIRC.
>>
>> The problem: 1989 Mazda 626. Over the course of the winter, occasionally
>> on cold days the engine would clack from just under the valve cover.
>> Since I seem to recall seeing somewhere that this engine has hydraulic
>> lifters of some sort, it just seemed that allowing the engine to warm
>> and circulate oil would cause this to stop as the lifters (or whatever!)
>> responded to the rise in oil pressure. It always worked, and when it
>> didn't, I would check the oil, add 2/3 3/4 of a quart, and be done with
>> it.
>>
>> Saturday the oil was down less than 1/4 from the Full on the dipstick.
>> Since it's getting an oil change in about 500 miles, I let it go.
>>
>> This morning I had to make a trip about 30-35 miles one way. When I
>> returned home I noticed the engine was making a louder noise than usual,
>> and when I went to investigate it was the clacking noise from under the
>> Valver Cover. I shut the car off and let it cool.
>>
>> Before I left the house later, I added 2/3 of a quart of Castrol
>> Synthetic (the closest bottle of oil I had) and started it. I let it run
>> for a while but the clacking continued. I added about 1/3 quart of
>> Marvel Mystery and let it run till warm and the noise never went away.
>> After parking the car for about 2.5 hours, when I started it up the
>> clacking was still there. I drove home still clacking, but quieter.
>>
>> The partiulars: this is the 2.0L 12-vavle engine, OHC, new timing belt
>> <3,000 miles ago, fuel injected. It's going to get parked in 1-3 weeks
>> when I take my Supra out of winter storage. Any ideas about what it is
>> or what I should look for? If I find the Haynes I will be able to answer
>> more questions concerning the motor. It looks good and runs great, even
>> with the clacking.
>>
>>
>>
> I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time I
> had to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't without
> risk, since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and now they're
> pushing a whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or more were
> collapsed the others were in similar shape. I got rid of the car for other
> reasons a few months later.
>
> I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would have
> been good enough for a few months :-(
>
> Mike


Hmmm...excuse me if I seem a bit ignorant here. What this car has is
Hydraulic Lash Adjusters (HLAs). It is at the end of the rocker and pushes
the shims over the valves down to open the valves. (Um, what's the
difference between this and a hydraulic lifter...?)

You can replace them without removing the rocker shafts, but I have seen a
couple write ups that say they don't go bad for no reason, and the reason
is usually that the holes that feed the oil to the HLAs are plugged. So,
it is possible to clean the HLAs and the holes feeding them oil.

I guess I'll investigate when I park the Mazda and put the Supra on the
road...!

 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:13:10 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

>
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>
>
>> I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>> drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>> taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to
> return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you
> are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it
> is mighty attractive.
>
> I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
> bearings and such though.
>
> Mike


Me either, but I've had a couple of high mileage engines using Castrol and
MMO mixed.

As long as it lasts until I get the Supra on the road and the Mazda
parked, I'll open the valve cover and have a look. It doesn't look all
that tough.

I have heard of this (MMO or ATF) solving the problem long term, though.

 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
> news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>
>
>>I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>>drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>>taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to return.
> Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you are far from
> home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it is mighty
> attractive.
>
> I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
> bearings and such though.
>
> Mike
>


I never heard anything negative about MMO in the forty-five years that
I've been "tinkering" with cars. Makes a hell of an "oil can" squirter
lubricant too..

JT

 

Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:13:10 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>
>
>>"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>>news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>>
>>
>>
>>>I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>>>drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>>>taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to
>>return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you
>>are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it
>>is mighty attractive.
>>
>>I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
>>bearings and such though.
>>
>>Mike
>
>
>
> Me either, but I've had a couple of high mileage engines using Castrol and
> MMO mixed.
>
> As long as it lasts until I get the Supra on the road and the Mazda
> parked, I'll open the valve cover and have a look. It doesn't look all
> that tough.
>
> I have heard of this (MMO or ATF) solving the problem long term, though.
>


If a lifter begins to make noise, two possibilities are lack of oil
pressure (unlikely) or excessive wear of the component itself (likely)

Plan on replacing 'em all.

JT

(Who owns nothing with hydraulic lifters!)

 

On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:55:06 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

>
>
> Hachiroku ハチ�ク wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 15:13:10 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
>>>news:54dRh.6888$iw5.1098@trndny06...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I put what I had left of a Qt of MMO in the Mazda...after a 20 minute
>>>>drive the clacking was gone. Sure beats ripping the Valve Cover off,
>>>>taking out the rocker shafts and replacing the HLA's!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I suspect it's a temporary fix, that wear will cause the problem to
>>>return. Sometimes a few months' reprieve is a very useful thing. If you
>>>are far from home on vacation or in the middle of rotten temperatures it
>>>is mighty attractive.
>>>
>>>I don't know how Marvel Mystery Oil changes the operation of oil for
>>>bearings and such though.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Me either, but I've had a couple of high mileage engines using Castrol
>> and MMO mixed.
>>
>> As long as it lasts until I get the Supra on the road and the Mazda
>> parked, I'll open the valve cover and have a look. It doesn't look all
>> that tough.
>>
>> I have heard of this (MMO or ATF) solving the problem long term, though.
>>
>>
>
> If a lifter begins to make noise, two possibilities are lack of oil
> pressure (unlikely) or excessive wear of the component itself (likely)
>
> Plan on replacing 'em all.
>
> JT
>
> (Who owns nothing with hydraulic lifters!)


It's not really a 'lifter', as I think I understand the term.

The car has an OHC, 3 valves per cylinder. They are actuated by rockers,
and at the end of each rocker is an HLA (Hydraulic Lash Adjuster). I guess
it's supposed to eliminate the need to adjust the valves by expanding or
'deflating' with oil to take up the slack. It seems they collect gunk, as
do the holes providing the oil.

It seems the MMO added to the oil has taken care of this for now. They
look fairly easy to replace. Once it comes off the road for the summer.