anumber1 wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tegger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI-
>>>>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>> z wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaking of lower rear control arms for a 92 civic sedan, does
>>>>>>> anybody
>>>>>>> know which of the aftermarket replacements are stock length, and
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> are shorter for camber improvement with lowered suspension?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> you use adjustable upper arms, not lower. readily available. if
>>>>>> you want the wheel track wider, use spacers on the hubs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Which will quickly eat up the wheel bearings.
>>>>>
>>>> how is that?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just a wild guess but I imagine moving the weight to the outside of
>>> those bearing is going to play hell with them. The axle/bearing
>>> assembly is designed with the weight centered on the bearing
>>> surfaces. Move it in or out and you concentrate the weight (not to
>>> mention the forces inflicted on the wheel by uneven terrain) on the
>>> end of the axle. Bad ju ju!
>>>
>> ok, but:
>> 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing
>> anyway.
>
> A load that the bearing is designed to handle.
>
>> 2. normal spacers aren't going to make a lot of difference - unusual
>> to go much more than 10mm.
>
> 10mm that is going to move the load out, changing the designed fulcrum
> of the original geometry, increasing the load on the bearing.

dude, with respect, you're going to get more transient bearing load on a
bearing from having suspension lowered too far than you are from spacers.

>
>> 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing".
>> bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is
>> lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops.
>
> The point of a well designed aftermarket control arms is to keep the
> suspension geometry correct in the areas that matter.

hardly - all it does is correct camber. it does nothing for the swing
radius of any of the suspension components themselves.

>
> Bearing load and various wheel alignment tracking angles would be very
> close to the original design.

by what margin??? the vehicle has a working load in the range of
800lbs. how do you think spee-dee ricer with his 10mm spacers and 90lb
girlfriend is going to exert more leverage on the bearings than spec?
install an even bigger sub?

 

HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message > ok, but:
> > 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway.
> > 2. normal spacers aren't going to make a lot of difference - unusual to
> > go much more than 10mm.
> > 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing".
> > bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is
> > lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops.
>
> I have heard the explanation, whether myth or fact, that the use of spacers
> will cause premature failure of bearings. Since the axle flange is always
> out
> past the centerplane of the bearing, like you, I dont think it matters too
> much.
>
> I tend to think this may be another garage legend, but wont stick my neck
> out on it.

Certainly in older RWD designs where the centerline of the wheel is
outside of the bearing, moving it further out by use of wider wheels,
spacers, and usually both increases the lever arm of the load on the
bearing. If the centerline of the wheel is inside of the bearing, then
a spacer has the opposite effect, but of course it does affect
whatever steering effect they wanted to achieve by putting the
centerline of the wheel there.

 

HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message > ok, but:
> > 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway.
> > 2. normal spacers aren't going to make a lot of difference - unusual to
> > go much more than 10mm.
> > 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing".
> > bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is
> > lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops.
>
> I have heard the explanation, whether myth or fact, that the use of spacers
> will cause premature failure of bearings. Since the axle flange is always
> out
> past the centerplane of the bearing, like you, I dont think it matters too
> much.
>
> I tend to think this may be another garage legend, but wont stick my neck
> out on it.

Certainly in older RWD designs where the centerline of the wheel is
outside of the bearing, moving it further out by use of wider wheels,
spacers, and usually both increases the lever arm of the load on the
bearing. If the centerline of the wheel is inside of the bearing, then
a spacer has the opposite effect, but of course it does affect
whatever steering effect they wanted to achieve by putting the
centerline of the wheel there.

 

HLS@nospam.nix wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message > ok, but:
> > 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway.
> > 2. normal spacers aren't going to make a lot of difference - unusual to
> > go much more than 10mm.
> > 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing".
> > bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is
> > lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops.
>
> I have heard the explanation, whether myth or fact, that the use of spacers
> will cause premature failure of bearings. Since the axle flange is always
> out
> past the centerplane of the bearing, like you, I dont think it matters too
> much.
>
> I tend to think this may be another garage legend, but wont stick my neck
> out on it.

Certainly in older RWD designs where the centerline of the wheel is
outside of the bearing, moving it further out by use of wider wheels,
spacers, and usually both increases the lever arm of the load on the
bearing. If the centerline of the wheel is inside of the bearing, then
a spacer has the opposite effect, but of course it does affect
whatever steering effect they wanted to achieve by putting the
centerline of the wheel there.

 

jim beam wrote:
> Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> > jim beam wrote:
> >> Tegger wrote:
> >>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI-
> >>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net:
> >>>
> >>>> z wrote:
> >>>>> Speaking of lower rear control arms for a 92 civic sedan, does anybody
> >>>>> know which of the aftermarket replacements are stock length, and which
> >>>>> are shorter for camber improvement with lowered suspension?
> >>>>>
> >>>> you use adjustable upper arms, not lower. readily available. if
> >>>> you want the wheel track wider, use spacers on the hubs.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Which will quickly eat up the wheel bearings.
> >>>
> >> how is that?
> >
> >
> > Just a wild guess but I imagine moving the weight to the outside of
> > those bearing is going to play hell with them. The axle/bearing
> > assembly is designed with the weight centered on the bearing surfaces.
> > Move it in or out and you concentrate the weight (not to mention the
> > forces inflicted on the wheel by uneven terrain) on the end of the axle.
> > Bad ju ju!
> >
> ok, but:
> 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway.
> 2. normal spacers aren't going to make a lot of difference - unusual to
> go much more than 10mm.
> 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing".
> bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is
> lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops.

Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock length
lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first warm
afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized. I
don't want aftermarket arms sized for lowered suspensions that will
throw the rear camber off. Some sales websites identify some
aftermarket arms as shortened for lowered suspensions, some don't,
nobody identifies any of the aftermarket arms as stock length.

 

jim beam wrote:
> Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> > jim beam wrote:
> >> Tegger wrote:
> >>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI-
> >>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net:
> >>>
> >>>> z wrote:
> >>>>> Speaking of lower rear control arms for a 92 civic sedan, does anybody
> >>>>> know which of the aftermarket replacements are stock length, and which
> >>>>> are shorter for camber improvement with lowered suspension?
> >>>>>
> >>>> you use adjustable upper arms, not lower. readily available. if
> >>>> you want the wheel track wider, use spacers on the hubs.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Which will quickly eat up the wheel bearings.
> >>>
> >> how is that?
> >
> >
> > Just a wild guess but I imagine moving the weight to the outside of
> > those bearing is going to play hell with them. The axle/bearing
> > assembly is designed with the weight centered on the bearing surfaces.
> > Move it in or out and you concentrate the weight (not to mention the
> > forces inflicted on the wheel by uneven terrain) on the end of the axle.
> > Bad ju ju!
> >
> ok, but:
> 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway.
> 2. normal spacers aren't going to make a lot of difference - unusual to
> go much more than 10mm.
> 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing".
> bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is
> lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops.

Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock length
lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first warm
afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized. I
don't want aftermarket arms sized for lowered suspensions that will
throw the rear camber off. Some sales websites identify some
aftermarket arms as shortened for lowered suspensions, some don't,
nobody identifies any of the aftermarket arms as stock length.

 

jim beam wrote:
> Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> > jim beam wrote:
> >> Tegger wrote:
> >>> jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in news:KI-
> >>> dnY16HM3Qaz_YnZ2dnUVZ_uyknZ2d@speakeasy.net:
> >>>
> >>>> z wrote:
> >>>>> Speaking of lower rear control arms for a 92 civic sedan, does anybody
> >>>>> know which of the aftermarket replacements are stock length, and which
> >>>>> are shorter for camber improvement with lowered suspension?
> >>>>>
> >>>> you use adjustable upper arms, not lower. readily available. if
> >>>> you want the wheel track wider, use spacers on the hubs.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Which will quickly eat up the wheel bearings.
> >>>
> >> how is that?
> >
> >
> > Just a wild guess but I imagine moving the weight to the outside of
> > those bearing is going to play hell with them. The axle/bearing
> > assembly is designed with the weight centered on the bearing surfaces.
> > Move it in or out and you concentrate the weight (not to mention the
> > forces inflicted on the wheel by uneven terrain) on the end of the axle.
> > Bad ju ju!
> >
> ok, but:
> 1. the wheel is already offset from the center line of the bearing anyway.
> 2. normal spacers aren't going to make a lot of difference - unusual to
> go much more than 10mm.
> 3. it's all relative. the op is lowering and presumably "racing".
> bearings take a hit in this situation anyway. literally if the car is
> lowered too much and the car's riding on the bump stops.

Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock length
lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first warm
afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized. I
don't want aftermarket arms sized for lowered suspensions that will
throw the rear camber off. Some sales websites identify some
aftermarket arms as shortened for lowered suspensions, some don't,
nobody identifies any of the aftermarket arms as stock length.

 

"z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in
news:1168444757.653634.67470@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com:


>
> Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock
> length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first
> warm afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
> bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized.



I was in Princess Auto today for the first time. They're only in Canada, so
if you're in the US, you'll have to try AZ or Kragen or one of those
places. In there I found something very interesting for $20.

What I found was a "puller" that resembles a very big, fat C-clamp. This
one takes a hex socket on the screw end. The other end ends in a round
hole. With sufficient sockets and spacers, this thing just might budge your
bushings without power assist. The principle is the same as those screw-
type balljoint pullers.

If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the
immobile-car syndrome.


--
Tegger

 

"z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in
news:1168444757.653634.67470@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com:


>
> Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock
> length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first
> warm afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
> bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized.



I was in Princess Auto today for the first time. They're only in Canada, so
if you're in the US, you'll have to try AZ or Kragen or one of those
places. In there I found something very interesting for $20.

What I found was a "puller" that resembles a very big, fat C-clamp. This
one takes a hex socket on the screw end. The other end ends in a round
hole. With sufficient sockets and spacers, this thing just might budge your
bushings without power assist. The principle is the same as those screw-
type balljoint pullers.

If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the
immobile-car syndrome.


--
Tegger

 

"z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in
news:1168444757.653634.67470@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com:


>
> Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock
> length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first
> warm afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
> bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized.



I was in Princess Auto today for the first time. They're only in Canada, so
if you're in the US, you'll have to try AZ or Kragen or one of those
places. In there I found something very interesting for $20.

What I found was a "puller" that resembles a very big, fat C-clamp. This
one takes a hex socket on the screw end. The other end ends in a round
hole. With sufficient sockets and spacers, this thing just might budge your
bushings without power assist. The principle is the same as those screw-
type balljoint pullers.

If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the
immobile-car syndrome.


--
Tegger

 

"z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in
news:1168444757.653634.67470@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com:


>
> Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock
> length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first
> warm afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
> bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized.



I was in Princess Auto today for the first time. They're only in Canada, so
if you're in the US, you'll have to try AZ or Kragen or one of those
places. In there I found something very interesting for $20.

What I found was a "puller" that resembles a very big, fat C-clamp. This
one takes a hex socket on the screw end. The other end ends in a round
hole. With sufficient sockets and spacers, this thing just might budge your
bushings without power assist. The principle is the same as those screw-
type balljoint pullers.

If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the
immobile-car syndrome.


--
Tegger

 

Tegger wrote:
> "z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in
> news:1168444757.653634.67470@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com:
>
>
> >
> > Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock
> > length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first
> > warm afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
> > bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized.
>
>
>
> I was in Princess Auto today for the first time. They're only in Canada, so
> if you're in the US, you'll have to try AZ or Kragen or one of those
> places. In there I found something very interesting for $20.
>
> What I found was a "puller" that resembles a very big, fat C-clamp. This
> one takes a hex socket on the screw end. The other end ends in a round
> hole. With sufficient sockets and spacers, this thing just might budge your
> bushings without power assist. The principle is the same as those screw-
> type balljoint pullers.
>
> If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the
> immobile-car syndrome.

I was thinking of something like that; like I said, since the bearings
have been pre-removed for me, it's just a matter of pressing new ones
in, so I was thinking just the biggest screw, nut, and washer that
would fit; or if that's too weak, as you mention, a big clampy thing
with an external bigger screw. I'll go look at the car parts store. I
was even thinking of just sandwiching the thing between the jacking pad
on the car and the jack.

>
> --
> Tegger

 

Tegger wrote:
> "z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in
> news:1168444757.653634.67470@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com:
>
>
> >
> > Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock
> > length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first
> > warm afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
> > bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized.
>
>
>
> I was in Princess Auto today for the first time. They're only in Canada, so
> if you're in the US, you'll have to try AZ or Kragen or one of those
> places. In there I found something very interesting for $20.
>
> What I found was a "puller" that resembles a very big, fat C-clamp. This
> one takes a hex socket on the screw end. The other end ends in a round
> hole. With sufficient sockets and spacers, this thing just might budge your
> bushings without power assist. The principle is the same as those screw-
> type balljoint pullers.
>
> If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the
> immobile-car syndrome.

I was thinking of something like that; like I said, since the bearings
have been pre-removed for me, it's just a matter of pressing new ones
in, so I was thinking just the biggest screw, nut, and washer that
would fit; or if that's too weak, as you mention, a big clampy thing
with an external bigger screw. I'll go look at the car parts store. I
was even thinking of just sandwiching the thing between the jacking pad
on the car and the jack.

>
> --
> Tegger

 

Tegger wrote:
> "z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in
> news:1168444757.653634.67470@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com:
>
>
> >
> > Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock
> > length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first
> > warm afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
> > bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized.
>
>
>
> I was in Princess Auto today for the first time. They're only in Canada, so
> if you're in the US, you'll have to try AZ or Kragen or one of those
> places. In there I found something very interesting for $20.
>
> What I found was a "puller" that resembles a very big, fat C-clamp. This
> one takes a hex socket on the screw end. The other end ends in a round
> hole. With sufficient sockets and spacers, this thing just might budge your
> bushings without power assist. The principle is the same as those screw-
> type balljoint pullers.
>
> If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the
> immobile-car syndrome.

I was thinking of something like that; like I said, since the bearings
have been pre-removed for me, it's just a matter of pressing new ones
in, so I was thinking just the biggest screw, nut, and washer that
would fit; or if that's too weak, as you mention, a big clampy thing
with an external bigger screw. I'll go look at the car parts store. I
was even thinking of just sandwiching the thing between the jacking pad
on the car and the jack.

>
> --
> Tegger

 

Tegger wrote:
> "z" <gzuckier@snail-mail.net> wrote in
> news:1168444757.653634.67470@p59g2000hsd.googlegro ups.com:
>
>
> >
> > Other way around. I'm not lowering the car, therefore want stock
> > length lower arms, my only goal is to just swap them in on the first
> > warm afternoon and drive off, without having to run around and get new
> > bushings stuffed into the old arms while the car is immobilized.
>
>
>
> I was in Princess Auto today for the first time. They're only in Canada, so
> if you're in the US, you'll have to try AZ or Kragen or one of those
> places. In there I found something very interesting for $20.
>
> What I found was a "puller" that resembles a very big, fat C-clamp. This
> one takes a hex socket on the screw end. The other end ends in a round
> hole. With sufficient sockets and spacers, this thing just might budge your
> bushings without power assist. The principle is the same as those screw-
> type balljoint pullers.
>
> If such a thing is available where you are, you may be able to avoid the
> immobile-car syndrome.

I was thinking of something like that; like I said, since the bearings
have been pre-removed for me, it's just a matter of pressing new ones
in, so I was thinking just the biggest screw, nut, and washer that
would fit; or if that's too weak, as you mention, a big clampy thing
with an external bigger screw. I'll go look at the car parts store. I
was even thinking of just sandwiching the thing between the jacking pad
on the car and the jack.

>
> --
> Tegger