On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:12:10 -0800 (PST), EdV <systmengr@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Nov 27, 12:53 am, Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVr...@mindspring.com>
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 23:31:46 -0800, "Justbob30" <NoTh...@you.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Go to the site, search for your keyword, few problems but I suspect that is
>> >not what you want to hear.
>>
>> All accounts are that hybrid batteries are holding up very well and
>> the companies don't expect to replace many under the 8 year warranty.
>> Toyota says it has not replaced a single battery pack due to wear and
>> tear or failure. That includes some Priuses with over 200,000 miles.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Pardon my ignorance in hybrids, I dont personally know anyone who owns
>a prius. I asked because I've seen some car ads selling used Prius
>batteries. Who buys them if all hybrid batteries are holding up?,

There are a fair number of experimenters making all-electric cars and
modifying hybrids to be plug-in hybrids. Prius batteries would be
quite useful to these people. Consider your question in a different
way. If hybrid batteries didn't hold up, who would be buying used
ones?

>maybe those car owners don't go to Toyota since used batteries are
>cheaper. Though I dont know how complicated it is to DIY a hybrid
>battery replacement.

Well, keep in mind that the battery and other hybrid components are
warranted for 8 years/100,000 miles, relatively few are out of
warranty. Even if Toyota's claim means only that none were replaced
under warranty, that would indicate that they are holding up pretty
well.

>Are there companies who replace bad cells on a
>hybrid battery pack such that they revive 2 scrap battery and create
>one refurbished battery pack. Its just that I've heard this kind of
>repair method on some laptop battery computers.

Yes, bad cells can be replaced.

>What would be an indication that a hybrid battery is going or gone
>bad? poor mpg, stalled vehicle?

Don't know bout that.

 

L Alpert wrote:
>
> I have no experiences with a hybrid, but most manufacturers advertise a
> lower MPG highway driving then city, at least in most of the commercial
> material I have seen.

Yes, but the Prius really does *usually* do better in the city than the
highway. Is possible to do worse in the city but that requires extreme
effort.

 

richard schumacher wrote:
> In article <R623j.24797$JD.16681@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net >,
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have no experiences with a hybrid, but most manufacturers
>> advertise a lower MPG highway driving then city, at least in most of
>> the commercial material I have seen.
>
> In the US automakers are required to show only the EPA's figures,
> which are faulty. Real Priuses usually get better fuel economy on
> the highway than in stop-and-go city driving.

That very well may be the case, though I was speaking of all hybrids in
general. Not sure if the Prius would be considered an outlier or not....

 

Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:12:10 -0800 (PST), EdV <systmengr@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 27, 12:53 am, Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVr...@mindspring.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 23:31:46 -0800, "Justbob30" <NoTh...@you.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Go to the site, search for your keyword, few problems but I
>>>> suspect that is not what you want to hear.
>>>
>>> All accounts are that hybrid batteries are holding up very well and
>>> the companies don't expect to replace many under the 8 year
>>> warranty. Toyota says it has not replaced a single battery pack due
>>> to wear and tear or failure. That includes some Priuses with over
>>> 200,000 miles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Pardon my ignorance in hybrids, I dont personally know anyone who
>> owns a prius. I asked because I've seen some car ads selling used
>> Prius batteries. Who buys them if all hybrid batteries are holding
>> up?,
>
> There are a fair number of experimenters making all-electric cars and
> modifying hybrids to be plug-in hybrids.

One would have to see the numbers for this plug in to recharge application.
Electric rates are +$0.20 KWH where I live!

 

L Alpert wrote:

> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:12:10 -0800 (PST), EdV <systmengr@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Nov 27, 12:53 am, Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVr...@mindspring.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 23:31:46 -0800, "Justbob30" <NoTh...@you.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Go to the site, search for your keyword, few problems but I
>>>>>suspect that is not what you want to hear.
>>>>
>>>>All accounts are that hybrid batteries are holding up very well and
>>>>the companies don't expect to replace many under the 8 year
>>>>warranty. Toyota says it has not replaced a single battery pack due
>>>>to wear and tear or failure. That includes some Priuses with over
>>>>200,000 miles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Pardon my ignorance in hybrids, I dont personally know anyone who
>>>owns a prius. I asked because I've seen some car ads selling used
>>>Prius batteries. Who buys them if all hybrid batteries are holding
>>>up?,
>>
>>There are a fair number of experimenters making all-electric cars and
>>modifying hybrids to be plug-in hybrids.
>
>
> One would have to see the numbers for this plug in to recharge application.
> Electric rates are +$0.20 KWH where I live!
>
>

The ideal solution would be middle of the night/off-peak charging, where
rates are frequently a small fraction of average.

 

News wrote:
> L Alpert wrote:
>
>> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:12:10 -0800 (PST), EdV
>>> <systmengr@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Nov 27, 12:53 am, Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVr...@mindspring.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 23:31:46 -0800, "Justbob30" <NoTh...@you.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Go to the site, search for your keyword, few problems but I
>>>>>> suspect that is not what you want to hear.
>>>>>
>>>>> All accounts are that hybrid batteries are holding up very well
>>>>> and the companies don't expect to replace many under the 8 year
>>>>> warranty. Toyota says it has not replaced a single battery pack
>>>>> due to wear and tear or failure. That includes some Priuses with
>>>>> over 200,000 miles.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pardon my ignorance in hybrids, I dont personally know anyone who
>>>> owns a prius. I asked because I've seen some car ads selling used
>>>> Prius batteries. Who buys them if all hybrid batteries are holding
>>>> up?,
>>>
>>> There are a fair number of experimenters making all-electric cars
>>> and modifying hybrids to be plug-in hybrids.
>>
>>
>> One would have to see the numbers for this plug in to recharge
>> application. Electric rates are +$0.20 KWH where I live!
>>
>>
>
> The ideal solution would be middle of the night/off-peak charging,
> where rates are frequently a small fraction of average.

We have no allowances for off peak usage that I know of.

 

In article <X6B4j.27313$JD.5474@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> ,
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:

> > The ideal solution would be middle of the night/off-peak charging,
> > where rates are frequently a small fraction of average.
>
> We have no allowances for off peak usage that I know of.

You should investigate alternate electric providers, if available.

 

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 07:53:59 -0500, "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com>
wrote:

>Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:12:10 -0800 (PST), EdV <systmengr@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 27, 12:53 am, Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVr...@mindspring.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 23:31:46 -0800, "Justbob30" <NoTh...@you.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Go to the site, search for your keyword, few problems but I
>>>>> suspect that is not what you want to hear.
>>>>
>>>> All accounts are that hybrid batteries are holding up very well and
>>>> the companies don't expect to replace many under the 8 year
>>>> warranty. Toyota says it has not replaced a single battery pack due
>>>> to wear and tear or failure. That includes some Priuses with over
>>>> 200,000 miles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Pardon my ignorance in hybrids, I dont personally know anyone who
>>> owns a prius. I asked because I've seen some car ads selling used
>>> Prius batteries. Who buys them if all hybrid batteries are holding
>>> up?,
>>
>> There are a fair number of experimenters making all-electric cars and
>> modifying hybrids to be plug-in hybrids.
>
>One would have to see the numbers for this plug in to recharge application.
>Electric rates are +$0.20 KWH where I live!

Not accounting for storage losses and drivetrain inefficiency, I would
estimate that $0.20/KWH equates to gas at $0.80 to 1.60 per gallon.

 

richard schumacher wrote:
> In article <X6B4j.27313$JD.5474@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> ,
> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> The ideal solution would be middle of the night/off-peak charging,
>>> where rates are frequently a small fraction of average.
>>
>> We have no allowances for off peak usage that I know of.
>
> You should investigate alternate electric providers, if available.

Yes, I have. They are all within about $.01-.005 per KWH. The deregulation
smells of collusion.

 

L Alpert wrote:
> richard schumacher wrote:
>
>>In article <X6B4j.27313$JD.5474@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> ,
>>"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>The ideal solution would be middle of the night/off-peak charging,
>>>>where rates are frequently a small fraction of average.
>>>
>>>We have no allowances for off peak usage that I know of.
>>
>>You should investigate alternate electric providers, if available.
>
>
> Yes, I have. They are all within about $.01-.005 per KWH. The deregulation
> smells of collusion.
>
>


Now THERE'S a surprise.... They spend more money telemarketing than
they do hedging/risk managing and driving down supply chain costs.

 

On Mon, 03 Dec 2007 23:35:43 GMT, "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com>
wrote:

>richard schumacher wrote:
>> In article <X6B4j.27313$JD.5474@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net> ,
>> "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> The ideal solution would be middle of the night/off-peak charging,
>>>> where rates are frequently a small fraction of average.
>>>
>>> We have no allowances for off peak usage that I know of.
>>
>> You should investigate alternate electric providers, if available.
>
>Yes, I have. They are all within about $.01-.005 per KWH. The deregulation
>smells of collusion.
>

It isn't collusion, it's fraud. The, so called, alternate electric
providers don't provide anything except an alternate address to mail
your check to. The electricity they sell you is purchased from the
old provider and brought to your house by the old provider. How can
it be much cheaper than the electricity the old company sells to you?

Here's a dirty little secret they don't tell you. In order to get a
slightly cheaper rate, they sign interruptible contracts with the
generating company. If there is a shortage of power your electricity
is shut off.

You better look into the gift horse's mouth if you know what's good
for you.

Jack

 

Retired VIP wrote:
>
> Here's a dirty little secret they don't tell you. In order to get a
> slightly cheaper rate, they sign interruptible contracts with the
> generating company. If there is a shortage of power your electricity
> is shut off.


Aha, so on the same aerial plant, the electrons bypass houses of AEP
customers, but keep going to traditional utility customers!

How do you suppose they do that?

 

I guess the bad battery packs of Thiettranh of Concord CA (9/21/04) or
Ray Molton's Priuses don't count. I'd just wait for the GM-BMW-
Mercedes two-mode hybrid to come off the production line. IMO it's a
superior system that's been tested in city buses since 2003.


http://www.consumeraffairs.com/autom...s_battery.html

"Ray Molton, who works in the real estate industry in Houston, Texas.
Ray wrote, "My 2001 Toyota Prius lasted five years and 113,000 miles.
And then the batteries seemed to die. My dealer estimated the
replacement cost at $7,000. They recommended scrapping the car for
parts."

Ray told me that Toyota had been "no help whatsoever on this issue."
He called another dealer only to discover a larger estimate of $8,000
to $9,000. Even worse, Ray discovered that the Toyota shop had another
2001 Prius with a bad battery. Maybe there is a conspiracy brewing,
after all. In a follow-up email, Ray wrote, "Toyota doesn't want these
battery issues to get out to the public. How could there be two 2001
Priuses in the same shop at the same time, if they have had no
problems with the batteries?"

To make matters worse, Ray bought a salvage Prius battery to soften
the damage to his pocketbook--only to discover that the salvage
battery's #13 cell was corroded, the same #13 cell that had a problem
on his Prius."




On Nov 26, 9:53 pm, Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVr...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>
> All accounts are that hybrid batteries are holding up very well and
> the companies don't expect to replace many under the 8 year warranty.
> Toyota says it has not replaced a single battery pack due to wear and
> tear or failure. That includes some Priuses with over 200,000 miles.

 

Or Toyota doesn't have to replace the bad battery packs because when
there is a problem, it recommends the owner to scrap the car.
Ouch!!!!!


Ray Molton, who works in the real estate industry in Houston, Texas.
Ray wrote
[snip]
"My 2001 Toyota Prius....My dealer estimated the replacement cost at
$7,000. They recommended scrapping the car for parts."

Ray wrote, "Toyota doesn't want these battery issues to get out to the
public. How could there be two 2001
Priuses in the same shop at the same time, if they have had no
problems with the batteries?"



On Nov 27, 6:12 am, EdV <systme...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance in hybrids, I dont personally know anyone who owns
> a prius. I asked because I've seen some car ads selling used Prius
> batteries. Who buys them if all hybrid batteries are holding up?,
> maybe those car owners don't go to Toyota since used batteries are
> cheaper. Though I dont know how complicated it is to DIY a hybrid
> battery replacement. Are there companies who replace bad cells on a
> hybrid battery pack such that they revive 2 scrap battery and create
> one refurbished battery pack. Its just that I've heard this kind of
> repair method on some laptop battery computers.
>
> What would be an indication that a hybrid battery is going or gone
> bad? poor mpg, stalled vehicle?

 

"News" <News@Groups.com> wrote in message
news:a5mdnVPrg6nbXsnanZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>
> Retired VIP wrote:
>>
>> Here's a dirty little secret they don't tell you. In order to get a
>> slightly cheaper rate, they sign interruptible contracts with the
>> generating company. If there is a shortage of power your electricity
>> is shut off.
>
>
> Aha, so on the same aerial plant, the electrons bypass houses of AEP
> customers, but keep going to traditional utility customers!
>
> How do you suppose they do that?

My entrance has a box controlled by "carrier current" transmissions. In the
summer when A/C's are all running, all over, on an extremely hot day, my A/C
will shut down for short periods. The saving isn't much but I rarely notice
my house getting warmer. My KWH here is about $0.08. I've switched to heat
pump & electric heat over heat pump & oil this year to see if there are any
savings.

Mr Ed
http://www.ed-camin.com
http://home.earthlink.net/~bcamin/betty.htm
http://www.mountairykiwanis.org
http://www.ma-artleague.org
http://home.earthlink.net/~j3dogs/index.htm