Hunting for my next car
12-17-2006 | 12:25 PM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
Joe LaVigne wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your responses!
>>
>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>> experience with CNG,
>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>
>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>> environment.
>>
>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>
>> Thanks again for your time!
>> Elisabeth
>>
>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>> Where should I look?
>
> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
> (production). At least for the US market.
>
> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>
> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your responses!
>>
>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>> experience with CNG,
>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>
>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>> environment.
>>
>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>
>> Thanks again for your time!
>> Elisabeth
>>
>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>> Where should I look?
>
> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
> (production). At least for the US market.
>
> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>
> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
12-17-2006 | 12:25 PM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
Joe LaVigne wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your responses!
>>
>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>> experience with CNG,
>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>
>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>> environment.
>>
>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>
>> Thanks again for your time!
>> Elisabeth
>>
>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>> Where should I look?
>
> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
> (production). At least for the US market.
>
> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>
> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your responses!
>>
>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>> experience with CNG,
>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>
>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>> environment.
>>
>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>
>> Thanks again for your time!
>> Elisabeth
>>
>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>> Where should I look?
>
> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
> (production). At least for the US market.
>
> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>
> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
12-17-2006 | 12:25 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
Joe LaVigne wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your responses!
>>
>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>> experience with CNG,
>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>
>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>> environment.
>>
>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>
>> Thanks again for your time!
>> Elisabeth
>>
>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>> Where should I look?
>
> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
> (production). At least for the US market.
>
> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>
> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your responses!
>>
>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>> experience with CNG,
>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>
>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>> environment.
>>
>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>
>> Thanks again for your time!
>> Elisabeth
>>
>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>> Where should I look?
>
> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
> (production). At least for the US market.
>
> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>
> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
12-17-2006 | 06:32 PM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>
>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>> experience with CNG,
>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>
>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>> Elisabeth
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>> Where should I look?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>
>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>
>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>
> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>
>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>> experience with CNG,
>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>
>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>> Elisabeth
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>> Where should I look?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>
>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>
>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>
> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
12-17-2006 | 06:32 PM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>
>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>> experience with CNG,
>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>
>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>> Elisabeth
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>> Where should I look?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>
>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>
>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>
> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>
>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>> experience with CNG,
>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>
>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>> Elisabeth
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>> Where should I look?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>
>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>
>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>
> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
12-17-2006 | 06:32 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>
>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>> experience with CNG,
>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>
>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>> Elisabeth
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>> Where should I look?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>
>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>
>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>
> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>
>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>> experience with CNG,
>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>
>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>> Elisabeth
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>> Where should I look?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>
>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>
>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>
> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
12-17-2006 | 06:32 PM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>
>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>> experience with CNG,
>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>
>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>> Elisabeth
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>> Where should I look?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>
>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>
>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>
> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>
>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>> experience with CNG,
>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>
>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>> environment.
>>>
>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>> Elisabeth
>>>
>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>> Where should I look?
>>
>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>
>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>
>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>
> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
12-17-2006 | 09:44 PM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
Joe LaVigne wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>>
>>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>>> experience with CNG,
>>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>>
>>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>>> Elisabeth
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>>> Where should I look?
>>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>>
>>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>>
>>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
>
> The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
> a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
>
> Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
> a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
"privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>>
>>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>>> experience with CNG,
>>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>>
>>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>>> Elisabeth
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>>> Where should I look?
>>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>>
>>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>>
>>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
>
> The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
> a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
>
> Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
> a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
"privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
12-17-2006 | 09:44 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
Joe LaVigne wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>>
>>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>>> experience with CNG,
>>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>>
>>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>>> Elisabeth
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>>> Where should I look?
>>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>>
>>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>>
>>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
>
> The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
> a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
>
> Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
> a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
"privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>>
>>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>>> experience with CNG,
>>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>>
>>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>>> Elisabeth
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>>> Where should I look?
>>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>>
>>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>>
>>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
>
> The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
> a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
>
> Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
> a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
"privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
12-17-2006 | 09:44 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
Joe LaVigne wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>>
>>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>>> experience with CNG,
>>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>>
>>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>>> Elisabeth
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>>> Where should I look?
>>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>>
>>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>>
>>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
>
> The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
> a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
>
> Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
> a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
"privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>>
>>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>>> experience with CNG,
>>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>>
>>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>>> Elisabeth
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>>> Where should I look?
>>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>>
>>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>>
>>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
>
> The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
> a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
>
> Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
> a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
"privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
12-17-2006 | 09:44 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
Joe LaVigne wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>>
>>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>>> experience with CNG,
>>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>>
>>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>>> Elisabeth
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>>> Where should I look?
>>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>>
>>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>>
>>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
>
> The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
> a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
>
> Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
> a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
"privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:25:55 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Joe LaVigne wrote:
>>> On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:33:32 -0800, ElisabethBaker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for your responses!
>>>>
>>>> I have international experience with manual transmission, and a year's
>>>> experience with CNG,
>>>> so Andy & Carol I know I want manual, and Art, JXStern and Jim Beam I
>>>> know I don't want CNG (=natural gas =Civic GX food)
>>>> CNG is too inconvenient to find -- I have to spend a lot of time
>>>> driving out of my way to get it.
>>>>
>>>> I have driven with LPG (=LP Gas =autogas) in Europe and wonder, Jim
>>>> Beam, how you find it more expensive.
>>>> I have understood it to be better for the wallet as well as for the
>>>> environment.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe worldlpgas.com can give me an idea when/where such a car will be
>>>> available here in the US, or if you find anything, please do post me!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again for your time!
>>>> Elisabeth
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 16, 10:55 am, "ElisabethBaker" <Elisabeth.G.Ba...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Honda vehicle...manual transmission...built (not modified) to
>>>>> run on LPG...want to buy it (new or used) in the United States.
>>>>> Where should I look?
>>> As far as I can tell, Honda does not make a LPG propelled vehicle
>>> (production). At least for the US market.
>>>
>>> And the GX does not come in a manual.
>>>
>>> I am kind of leary of driving any vehicle with an explosive pressurized
>>> tank, though. Just my own thing, I guess...
>> if you're leery of lpg, how do you feel about hydrogen???
>
> The same. Anything that puts a pressurized tank of explosive material in
> a position to be impacted in a crash is a little scary to me.
>
> Just having a pressurized tanks of anything is dangerous in a crash. Even
> a highly pressurized tank of air being impacted would not be very safe.
personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
"privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
12-18-2006 | 12:03 AM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:44:01 -0800, jim beam wrote:
> personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
> "privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
> one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
> metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
> the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
> explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
> accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
> much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
> probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
And what's the point of an investigation if everyone involved in the crash
is placed into buckets?
> personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
> "privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
> one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
> metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
> the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
> explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
> accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
> much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
> probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
And what's the point of an investigation if everyone involved in the crash
is placed into buckets?
12-18-2006 | 12:03 AM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:44:01 -0800, jim beam wrote:
> personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
> "privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
> one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
> metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
> the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
> explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
> accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
> much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
> probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
And what's the point of an investigation if everyone involved in the crash
is placed into buckets?
> personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
> "privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
> one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
> metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
> the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
> explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
> accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
> much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
> probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
And what's the point of an investigation if everyone involved in the crash
is placed into buckets?
12-18-2006 | 12:03 AM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:44:01 -0800, jim beam wrote:
> personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
> "privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
> one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
> metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
> the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
> explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
> accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
> much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
> probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
And what's the point of an investigation if everyone involved in the crash
is placed into buckets?
> personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
> "privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
> one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
> metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
> the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
> explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
> accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
> much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
> probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
And what's the point of an investigation if everyone involved in the crash
is placed into buckets?
12-18-2006 | 12:03 AM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Hunting for my next car
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:44:01 -0800, jim beam wrote:
> personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
> "privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
> one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
> metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
> the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
> explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
> accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
> much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
> probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
And what's the point of an investigation if everyone involved in the crash
is placed into buckets?
> personally, i'm a good deal more concerned about hydrogen. i had the
> "privilege" to witness a gas cylinder fire with subsequent explosions
> one time, from a safe distance, and that was pretty impressive. bits of
> metal were flying at least 100m vertically each time one went off and
> the evacuation radius was a good two blocks. in a good hydrogen tank
> explosion, i wouldn't want to be inside 10 blocks. getting into an
> accident with one of those things on the highway? there wouldn't be
> much /scene/ left for accident investigation, let alone bits of car.
> probably not much point even fitting air bags to one of those things!
And what's the point of an investigation if everyone involved in the crash
is placed into buckets?