Oh boy...LONG day. I meant to say Volkswagon, NOT Toyota!!! - Paul

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:11:54 -0400, Paul S <pauls@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Hi Tegger: Thanks again for your input...you really helped me with
>that bad Honda battery issue (I ended up getting an Optima "Red Top"
>at Walmart which is working great), and now with my drain bolt saga. I
>know what you mean about the "ouch" part.....I have a real fear that
>the bozo who got trigger happy with his air gun might have cross
>threaded the bolt and ruined the pan. I recall all too vividly
>shelling out $350 USD for a new oil pan on my old Jetta back in the
>mid '80's when a similar event occurred at the dealership. In that
>particular case, I eventually got Toyota to cover my cost. Looks a bit
>like deja vu now with the Accord, though the last oil change was not
>done at Honda. I'll hope for the best and see what happens after I
>finally get the bolt off. - Paul S.
>
>On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:15:32 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m>
>wrote:
>
>>Paul S <pauls@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>news:6km3131u2chg9pq2cge4s82gk04uf7646i@4ax.co m:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first
>>> time), but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's
>>> virtually welded onto the pan. NOTHING has worked so far. Not a box
>>> wrench, not a socket head, nothing. The mechanic who used his air gun
>>> to tighten the bolt at the last tune-up
>>
>>
>>
>>Ahhhhhhhhhhhh! Ouch!
>>
>>Do you have ANY idea how fragile the drain bolt threads are?
>>
>>
>>
>>> has given entirely new meaning
>>> to the term "over-torqued". Any ideas on how to get this off without
>>> ruining the threads? It appears to be a 17 mm hex nut with good sides,
>>> i.e. it isn't rounded...yet!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>If the bolt is _that_ tight, there's a good chance the threads are
>>distorted and are binding. In other words, the pan threads are damaged.
>>
>>Once you break the bolt loose, you'll probably find it won't spin off
>>freely, and you'll have to crank it around with a wrench until it's off.
>>
>>If you find this happens, that butcher of a mechanic of yours needs to
>>cough up the cost of a fix.
>

 

"Paul S" <pauls@hotmail.com> wrote
> Thank you...that certainly gives me a better idea what to
> look for.
> A couple more related questions:
>
> 1) since I found it easier to remove the front driver's
> tire to do the
> oil work, does anyone happen to know what the recommended
> torque spec
> is (in ft. lbs) for the lug bolts on a '92?

From www.autozone.com , '92 Accord Repair Guide, 80 ft-lbs
(same as my 91 Civic's).

> What about an '04 accord?

Try the free owner's manual resources listed at
http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id9.html

> 2) how about the torque on the new drain plug, once I get
> the old one
> off?

33 ft-lbs, from
http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m...al/400/5-4.pdf

Also the same as my 91 Civic's.

 

Many, many thanks! - Paul

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 05:44:40 GMT, "Elle"
<honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote:

>"Paul S" <pauls@hotmail.com> wrote
>> Thank you...that certainly gives me a better idea what to
>> look for.
>> A couple more related questions:
>>
>> 1) since I found it easier to remove the front driver's
>> tire to do the
>> oil work, does anyone happen to know what the recommended
>> torque spec
>> is (in ft. lbs) for the lug bolts on a '92?
>
>From www.autozone.com , '92 Accord Repair Guide, 80 ft-lbs
>(same as my 91 Civic's).
>
>> What about an '04 accord?
>
>Try the free owner's manual resources listed at
>http://home.earthlink.net/~honda.lioness/id9.html
>
>> 2) how about the torque on the new drain plug, once I get
>> the old one
>> off?
>
>33 ft-lbs, from
>http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m...al/400/5-4.pdf
>
>Also the same as my 91 Civic's.
>

 

JeB wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:44:11 -0400, Paul S <pauls@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first
>> time), but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's
>> virtually welded onto the pan. NOTHING has worked so far. Not a box
>> wrench, not a socket head, nothing. The mechanic who used his air gun
>> to tighten the bolt at the last tune-up has given entirely new meaning
>> to the term "over-torqued". Any ideas on how to get this off without
>> ruining the threads? It appears to be a 17 mm hex nut with good sides,
>> i.e. it isn't rounded...yet!!! Thanks. - Paul S.
>
> perhaps someone used thread locking material to keep it from coming
> loose and really didn't pound it on like that. I think the torque
> spec for our civic is 21ft/lb. I'll make another vote for a good 6
> point socket ... and be careful.
>

And, one last jibe, are you turning in the correct direction?

Righty, tightly, lefty, loosey


Or, clockwise to tighten, counter clockwise to loosen. Except, on Nash
Ramblers built before 1968, on the driver's side wheel spindle! They
used left hand threads on many cars built before 1970, on the Left Side
of the vehicles, on the wheel spindles.


But, really, when we are laying down on our backs, often we become
somewhat dyslexic.

 

"Linuxiac" <"at yahoo.com "> wrote in message
news:4613e68d$0$17191$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
> Righty, tightly, lefty, loosey
>
>
> Or, clockwise to tighten, counter clockwise to loosen. Except, on Nash
> Ramblers built before 1968, on the driver's side wheel spindle! They used
> left hand threads on many cars built before 1970, on the Left Side of the
> vehicles, on the wheel spindles.
>

And the driver's side lug nuts on old Chryslers. The first car I drove was
my mother's '64 Dodge, and when it had a driver's wheel flat I thought I was
just too weak to get it off. Then somebody told me about the threads....

Mike

 

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:38:14 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

> "Linuxiac" <"at yahoo.com "> wrote in message
> news:4613e68d$0$17191$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>> Righty, tightly, lefty, loosey
>>
>>
>> Or, clockwise to tighten, counter clockwise to loosen. Except, on Nash
>> Ramblers built before 1968, on the driver's side wheel spindle! They
>> used left hand threads on many cars built before 1970, on the Left Side
>> of the vehicles, on the wheel spindles.
>>
>>
> And the driver's side lug nuts on old Chryslers. The first car I drove was
> my mother's '64 Dodge, and when it had a driver's wheel flat I thought I
> was just too weak to get it off. Then somebody told me about the
> threads....
>
> Mike


AAAARGH! I was getting a friend's 66 Chrysler 'Special' (It was an
Unmarked Luxo-barge for Government use) ready for the summer and couldn't
get the lug nuts off. He called and asked how it was going. Fine, except...

Guess you don't know the lug nuts on that side are LHT, do you?

 

"Hachiroku ????" <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote in message
news:dhfRh.14733$IY4.12637@trndny03...
> On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 19:38:14 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:
>
>> "Linuxiac" <"at yahoo.com "> wrote in message
>> news:4613e68d$0$17191$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>>
>>> Righty, tightly, lefty, loosey
>>>
>>>
>>> Or, clockwise to tighten, counter clockwise to loosen. Except, on Nash
>>> Ramblers built before 1968, on the driver's side wheel spindle! They
>>> used left hand threads on many cars built before 1970, on the Left Side
>>> of the vehicles, on the wheel spindles.
>>>
>>>
>> And the driver's side lug nuts on old Chryslers. The first car I drove
>> was
>> my mother's '64 Dodge, and when it had a driver's wheel flat I thought I
>> was just too weak to get it off. Then somebody told me about the
>> threads....
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> AAAARGH! I was getting a friend's 66 Chrysler 'Special' (It was an
> Unmarked Luxo-barge for Government use) ready for the summer and couldn't
> get the lug nuts off. He called and asked how it was going. Fine,
> except...
>
> Guess you don't know the lug nuts on that side are LHT, do you?
>
>
>
But it sure builds up manly muscles trying to get them loose. At least it
feels that way.

 

Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the
direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to
get the bolt off (using a 1/2 in. drive and a steel impact socket),
but I'm not sure how much PSI to start out with. 90 PSI coming out of
the compressor translates to about 400 PSI out of the gun, so I guess
it's about 1:4 in vs. out. Anyone happen to know how much PSI (out of
the gun) I should start out with? That's assuming, of course, that
it's alright to "fight fire with fire" by using the air gun at all.
Thanks. - Paul S.

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:54:48 -0400, Linuxiac <"at yahoo.com "> wrote:

>JeB wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:44:11 -0400, Paul S <pauls@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi: I am trying to change the oil on my '92 accord (for the first
>>> time), but the drain bolt is so tight it seems as thought it's
>>> virtually welded onto the pan. NOTHING has worked so far. Not a box
>>> wrench, not a socket head, nothing. The mechanic who used his air gun
>>> to tighten the bolt at the last tune-up has given entirely new meaning
>>> to the term "over-torqued". Any ideas on how to get this off without
>>> ruining the threads? It appears to be a 17 mm hex nut with good sides,
>>> i.e. it isn't rounded...yet!!! Thanks. - Paul S.
>>
>> perhaps someone used thread locking material to keep it from coming
>> loose and really didn't pound it on like that. I think the torque
>> spec for our civic is 21ft/lb. I'll make another vote for a good 6
>> point socket ... and be careful.
>>
>
>And, one last jibe, are you turning in the correct direction?
>
>Righty, tightly, lefty, loosey
>
>
>Or, clockwise to tighten, counter clockwise to loosen. Except, on Nash
>Ramblers built before 1968, on the driver's side wheel spindle! They
>used left hand threads on many cars built before 1970, on the Left Side
>of the vehicles, on the wheel spindles.
>
>
>But, really, when we are laying down on our backs, often we become
>somewhat dyslexic.

 

"Paul S" <pauls@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j66b13hqu6ebfcskor9a7voiv573n3qf6i@4ax.com...
>
> Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the
> direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to
> get the bolt off (using a 1/2 in. drive and a steel impact socket),
> but I'm not sure how much PSI to start out with. 90 PSI coming out of
> the compressor translates to about 400 PSI out of the gun, so I guess
> it's about 1:4 in vs. out. Anyone happen to know how much PSI (out of
> the gun) I should start out with? That's assuming, of course, that
> it's alright to "fight fire with fire" by using the air gun at all.
> Thanks. - Paul S.
>

I'd be eyeing the air gun at this point, too. I fear the threads in the pan
are already in bad shape, and that the plug has been fastened in. I hope it
isn't epoxy!

The advantage of the air gun is that you are delivering straight torque
rather than levering it. Even sockets want to lift unless you can apply the
same amount of support as you are applying torque. As long as the impact
socket is a nice fit and it can be set on straight rather than a bit cocked
I'd go that way. The torque is nowhere near linear with air pressure; 40 PSI
is probably a good starting point. I doubt you would even get impact action
at that pressure, but you can always go up :-)

If the plug is fastened in or badly cross-threaded or both, all is not lost.
NAPA carries drain plugs for Hondas in single and double oversize. There are
complications, but let's hope for the best.

Mike

 

Thank you Mike for your very helpful post. I have a Campbell Hausfeld
compressor that goes up to 100 psi (just used it to repaint the hood
of my '92 accord...THAT was difficult), so like you say it's probably
best to start low with the air pressure and gradually work my way up.
I'll let you guys know how it goes tomorrow. - Paul.

On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 19:20:36 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
<michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:

>"Paul S" <pauls@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:j66b13hqu6ebfcskor9a7voiv573n3qf6i@4ax.com.. .
>>
>> Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the
>> direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to
>> get the bolt off (using a 1/2 in. drive and a steel impact socket),
>> but I'm not sure how much PSI to start out with. 90 PSI coming out of
>> the compressor translates to about 400 PSI out of the gun, so I guess
>> it's about 1:4 in vs. out. Anyone happen to know how much PSI (out of
>> the gun) I should start out with? That's assuming, of course, that
>> it's alright to "fight fire with fire" by using the air gun at all.
>> Thanks. - Paul S.
>>
>
>I'd be eyeing the air gun at this point, too. I fear the threads in the pan
>are already in bad shape, and that the plug has been fastened in. I hope it
>isn't epoxy!
>
>The advantage of the air gun is that you are delivering straight torque
>rather than levering it. Even sockets want to lift unless you can apply the
>same amount of support as you are applying torque. As long as the impact
>socket is a nice fit and it can be set on straight rather than a bit cocked
>I'd go that way. The torque is nowhere near linear with air pressure; 40 PSI
>is probably a good starting point. I doubt you would even get impact action
>at that pressure, but you can always go up :-)
>
>If the plug is fastened in or badly cross-threaded or both, all is not lost.
>NAPA carries drain plugs for Hondas in single and double oversize. There are
>complications, but let's hope for the best.
>
>Mike
>
>

 

Michael Pardee wrote:

> "Paul S" <pauls@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:j66b13hqu6ebfcskor9a7voiv573n3qf6i@4ax.com...
>
>>Hi: Yes, I was going counterclockwise on a Honda, so I think the
>>direction is correct. I was thinking of trying an air impact gun to
>>get the bolt off (using a 1/2 in. drive and a steel impact socket),
>>but I'm not sure how much PSI to start out with. 90 PSI coming out of
>>the compressor translates to about 400 PSI out of the gun, so I guess
>>it's about 1:4 in vs. out. Anyone happen to know how much PSI (out of
>>the gun) I should start out with? That's assuming, of course, that
>>it's alright to "fight fire with fire" by using the air gun at all.
>>Thanks. - Paul S.
>>
>
>
> I'd be eyeing the air gun at this point, too. I fear the threads in the pan
> are already in bad shape, and that the plug has been fastened in. I hope it
> isn't epoxy!
>
> The advantage of the air gun is that you are delivering straight torque
> rather than levering it. Even sockets want to lift unless you can apply the
> same amount of support as you are applying torque. As long as the impact
> socket is a nice fit and it can be set on straight rather than a bit cocked
> I'd go that way. The torque is nowhere near linear with air pressure; 40 PSI
> is probably a good starting point. I doubt you would even get impact action
> at that pressure, but you can always go up :-)
>
> If the plug is fastened in or badly cross-threaded or both, all is not lost.
> NAPA carries drain plugs for Hondas in single and double oversize. There are
> complications, but let's hope for the best.
>
> Mike
>
>

In aircraft manufacturing, a simple device is used that fits on air
tools between the tool and the incoming air line. It is a simple
"volume" control that is adjustable from full on to full off by a series
of click stops. Sure wish such was readily available on the "civilian"
market...

JT

 

Actually my air gun has an adjustment like that on it.

G-Man


> In aircraft manufacturing, a simple device is used that fits on air tools
> between the tool and the incoming air line. It is a simple "volume"
> control that is adjustable from full on to full off by a series of click
> stops. Sure wish such was readily available on the "civilian" market...
>
> JT
>

 

Wow...that sounds pretty neat. I wish one were available too. - Paul

>In aircraft manufacturing, a simple device is used that fits on air
>tools between the tool and the incoming air line. It is a simple
>"volume" control that is adjustable from full on to full off by a series
>of click stops. Sure wish such was readily available on the "civilian"
>market...
>
>JT

 

Hi To G-Man and Everyone Else Who Was Nice Enough to Respond About My
Stuck Oil Drain Bolt Issue:

I finally got the bolt off today!! Hurray!! It's the simple things in
life..... No, actually it was the air gun, which worked like magic at
75 psi. It's a great tool, as long as you use it to take the bolt off
but not to put it on. No sign of any leaks yet with the new oil, but
I'll keep watching just in case. Looks like I may have dodged a
bullet. Replaced the washer, painted some anti-seize compound on the
threads of the new bolt, and hand torqued it to 33 foot pounds,

Thanks again! - Paul.


On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 14:49:56 -0400, "G-Man" <g_foreman@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Actually my air gun has an adjustment like that on it.
>
>G-Man
>
>
>> In aircraft manufacturing, a simple device is used that fits on air tools
>> between the tool and the incoming air line. It is a simple "volume"
>> control that is adjustable from full on to full off by a series of click
>> stops. Sure wish such was readily available on the "civilian" market...
>>
>> JT
>>
>

 

"Paul S" <pauls@hotmail.com> wrote
> Replaced the washer, painted some anti-seize compound on
> the
> threads of the new bolt,

Let the fun begin.

;-)