On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:35:57 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:

>
>"tww" <twaugh5@***.net> wrote in message
>news:RC2Ag.14762$PO.11803@dukeread03...
>
>> Confrimed in the Business section of our paper today -- "July vehicle
>sales
>> rise for Toyota and Honda..." GM sales were off 31.2% for trucks and cars
>> down for 2.7%. Chrysler was downs 40/23.5 percent respectively. So even
>> their cars present sales problems.
>
>People are nervous. They are, perhaps temporarily, thinking economy.
>Soaring gasoline and associated energy costs are making reasoning
>people shake their heads in disbelief.
>
>The stock market is making people question the whole economic system
>and the wars in the Middle East are not helping either.
>
>Predictions were published the other day, and I dont remember really where,
>that Toyota will overtake GM for the world market in the next couple of
>years.
>Predictions dont mean anything, though, and we can wait and watch.

How do you feel about projections? Based on projected sales released
by each company at the beginning of the year, Toyota is expected to
surpass GM in total worldwide sales in 2006. I don't know for sure,
but I am betting that Toyota is doing at least as well as GM at
hitting their sales targets so far this year.

 

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:35:57 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:

>
>"tww" <twaugh5@***.net> wrote in message
>news:RC2Ag.14762$PO.11803@dukeread03...
>
>> Confrimed in the Business section of our paper today -- "July vehicle
>sales
>> rise for Toyota and Honda..." GM sales were off 31.2% for trucks and cars
>> down for 2.7%. Chrysler was downs 40/23.5 percent respectively. So even
>> their cars present sales problems.
>
>People are nervous. They are, perhaps temporarily, thinking economy.
>Soaring gasoline and associated energy costs are making reasoning
>people shake their heads in disbelief.
>
>The stock market is making people question the whole economic system
>and the wars in the Middle East are not helping either.
>
>Predictions were published the other day, and I dont remember really where,
>that Toyota will overtake GM for the world market in the next couple of
>years.
>Predictions dont mean anything, though, and we can wait and watch.

How do you feel about projections? Based on projected sales released
by each company at the beginning of the year, Toyota is expected to
surpass GM in total worldwide sales in 2006. I don't know for sure,
but I am betting that Toyota is doing at least as well as GM at
hitting their sales targets so far this year.

 

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 17:35:57 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:

>
>"tww" <twaugh5@***.net> wrote in message
>news:RC2Ag.14762$PO.11803@dukeread03...
>
>> Confrimed in the Business section of our paper today -- "July vehicle
>sales
>> rise for Toyota and Honda..." GM sales were off 31.2% for trucks and cars
>> down for 2.7%. Chrysler was downs 40/23.5 percent respectively. So even
>> their cars present sales problems.
>
>People are nervous. They are, perhaps temporarily, thinking economy.
>Soaring gasoline and associated energy costs are making reasoning
>people shake their heads in disbelief.
>
>The stock market is making people question the whole economic system
>and the wars in the Middle East are not helping either.
>
>Predictions were published the other day, and I dont remember really where,
>that Toyota will overtake GM for the world market in the next couple of
>years.
>Predictions dont mean anything, though, and we can wait and watch.

How do you feel about projections? Based on projected sales released
by each company at the beginning of the year, Toyota is expected to
surpass GM in total worldwide sales in 2006. I don't know for sure,
but I am betting that Toyota is doing at least as well as GM at
hitting their sales targets so far this year.

 

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news3eAg.2026$gY6.479@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com ...
>
> "80 Knight" <80_knightREMOVEMEPLEASE@rogers.com> wrote in message
>
>> I do see your point though. As gas prices rise, I may one day want a
>> smaller car. I just don't want to be forced into doing that.
>
> If we, as consumer, keep the demand for oil (in any form) up, prices will
> stay up. Smaller cars are only a portion of what must be done.

I can't really agree with that. I think it doesn't really matter if we all
drove Sunfire's, or each company's version of it (Honda's Civic, etc), gas
would still be where it is now. They know we need it, and that we will pay
for it.

> Cut use by 5% to 10% and prices will drop over night.

I don't see that happening at all. See above. They know we need it, and they
will charge whatever they want.

> But no one want to be first, no one wants to be inconvenienced.

I can agree with that. I myself, don't use much gas at all. I mainly stay
in-town, and when I go out, I usually wait until more people have to go out,
and we all go in one car, at the same time (I live with 5 other family
members and friends).

 

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news3eAg.2026$gY6.479@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com ...
>
> "80 Knight" <80_knightREMOVEMEPLEASE@rogers.com> wrote in message
>
>> I do see your point though. As gas prices rise, I may one day want a
>> smaller car. I just don't want to be forced into doing that.
>
> If we, as consumer, keep the demand for oil (in any form) up, prices will
> stay up. Smaller cars are only a portion of what must be done.

I can't really agree with that. I think it doesn't really matter if we all
drove Sunfire's, or each company's version of it (Honda's Civic, etc), gas
would still be where it is now. They know we need it, and that we will pay
for it.

> Cut use by 5% to 10% and prices will drop over night.

I don't see that happening at all. See above. They know we need it, and they
will charge whatever they want.

> But no one want to be first, no one wants to be inconvenienced.

I can agree with that. I myself, don't use much gas at all. I mainly stay
in-town, and when I go out, I usually wait until more people have to go out,
and we all go in one car, at the same time (I live with 5 other family
members and friends).

 

"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in message
news3eAg.2026$gY6.479@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com ...
>
> "80 Knight" <80_knightREMOVEMEPLEASE@rogers.com> wrote in message
>
>> I do see your point though. As gas prices rise, I may one day want a
>> smaller car. I just don't want to be forced into doing that.
>
> If we, as consumer, keep the demand for oil (in any form) up, prices will
> stay up. Smaller cars are only a portion of what must be done.

I can't really agree with that. I think it doesn't really matter if we all
drove Sunfire's, or each company's version of it (Honda's Civic, etc), gas
would still be where it is now. They know we need it, and that we will pay
for it.

> Cut use by 5% to 10% and prices will drop over night.

I don't see that happening at all. See above. They know we need it, and they
will charge whatever they want.

> But no one want to be first, no one wants to be inconvenienced.

I can agree with that. I myself, don't use much gas at all. I mainly stay
in-town, and when I go out, I usually wait until more people have to go out,
and we all go in one car, at the same time (I live with 5 other family
members and friends).

 

We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon

I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
when it was $2

Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.



mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154557182.254540.173170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> What you call the "midget class," oh top posting one, is the class of
> the future, at least until some kind of technological breakthrough
> allows us to move away from fossil fuels. The US mfgrs. should have
> known this but instead of planning long term, they've been milking the
> SUV craze while it lasted, and now they're paying for it. You're also
> completely disregarding reputation for quality, which is indisputably
> in favor of the imports. One thing that you got right in your post is
> that the Koreans are likely going to make a strong showing over the
> next couple years.
>
> nate
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> You are entitled to your own opinion but I am simply stating facts.
>> Actually the fuel economy of the comparable cars and trucks that both GM
>> and
>> Ford have to offer are as good, or better. than import brands. Where
>> they
>> fall short is in the midget car class where the do not generally offer a
>> competitive vehicle. When one considers the drive home price difference
>> between the domestics and most imports, the domestics have the advantage
>> for
>> an astute buyer. One need prepay for their fuel by spending an extra 20%
>> or
>> 30% to get a few more MPG. The Koreans do a far better job of fuel
>> economy
>> for the price than the Japs. Both GM and Ford have more vehicles that
>> get
>> 30 or more MPG than any of the imports.
>>
>>
>> mike hunt

 

We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon

I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
when it was $2

Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.



mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154557182.254540.173170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> What you call the "midget class," oh top posting one, is the class of
> the future, at least until some kind of technological breakthrough
> allows us to move away from fossil fuels. The US mfgrs. should have
> known this but instead of planning long term, they've been milking the
> SUV craze while it lasted, and now they're paying for it. You're also
> completely disregarding reputation for quality, which is indisputably
> in favor of the imports. One thing that you got right in your post is
> that the Koreans are likely going to make a strong showing over the
> next couple years.
>
> nate
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> You are entitled to your own opinion but I am simply stating facts.
>> Actually the fuel economy of the comparable cars and trucks that both GM
>> and
>> Ford have to offer are as good, or better. than import brands. Where
>> they
>> fall short is in the midget car class where the do not generally offer a
>> competitive vehicle. When one considers the drive home price difference
>> between the domestics and most imports, the domestics have the advantage
>> for
>> an astute buyer. One need prepay for their fuel by spending an extra 20%
>> or
>> 30% to get a few more MPG. The Koreans do a far better job of fuel
>> economy
>> for the price than the Japs. Both GM and Ford have more vehicles that
>> get
>> 30 or more MPG than any of the imports.
>>
>>
>> mike hunt

 

We are all entitled to our opinions I guess. What makes you believe the
'fuel(s) of the future' will be less expensive than
gasoline? Hydrogen is currently around $20 a gallon

I've been in all three sides of the automotive business for a long time and
in the real world people buy what they want. History repeatedly tells us
what they ALWAYS want is their vehicles to be bigger and more powerful.
Look at what both Toyota and Honda have marketed over the past ten years.
They are ALL bigger and more powerful, with more new trucks and SUVs than
small cars. Todays Corolla is a bigger car than the Camry of yore. Where
the import have the advantage is that can import the midget cars the make
and sell around the world. They can't afford to build them in the US
anymore than domestics can. Even though the imports have much lower labor
and benefits cost than the domestics in the US. When buyers warm to the
higher gas prices they will shun smaller cars just as they did after the
last big gas price jumps. Teh fact is we use far more gas at $3 than we did
when it was $2

Even if we could develop an alternative fuel to replace gasoline, the cost
of a delivery system alone would be in the billions, IF we can get it built
under the current pollution laws. If we did all that OPEC can simply lower
the price of crude and make ANY new fuel a more expensive option. We sill
never see any fuel for our cars that is less expensive, so the sooner you
become accustomed to it you can buy the big powerful car vehicle you want.



mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154557182.254540.173170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
> What you call the "midget class," oh top posting one, is the class of
> the future, at least until some kind of technological breakthrough
> allows us to move away from fossil fuels. The US mfgrs. should have
> known this but instead of planning long term, they've been milking the
> SUV craze while it lasted, and now they're paying for it. You're also
> completely disregarding reputation for quality, which is indisputably
> in favor of the imports. One thing that you got right in your post is
> that the Koreans are likely going to make a strong showing over the
> next couple years.
>
> nate
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> You are entitled to your own opinion but I am simply stating facts.
>> Actually the fuel economy of the comparable cars and trucks that both GM
>> and
>> Ford have to offer are as good, or better. than import brands. Where
>> they
>> fall short is in the midget car class where the do not generally offer a
>> competitive vehicle. When one considers the drive home price difference
>> between the domestics and most imports, the domestics have the advantage
>> for
>> an astute buyer. One need prepay for their fuel by spending an extra 20%
>> or
>> 30% to get a few more MPG. The Koreans do a far better job of fuel
>> economy
>> for the price than the Japs. Both GM and Ford have more vehicles that
>> get
>> 30 or more MPG than any of the imports.
>>
>>
>> mike hunt

 

As I said before you are entitle to your opinion but that does not mean it
is the most valid. When I owned my fleet service business we serviced
thousand of vehicles monthly, of nearly every brand you can name. With our
meticulous service, as recorded in the records we accumulated, we saw little
discernable differences on average among the vehicles on the market today.
The only real difference is style and price and one need not spend at lot
more money to buy a good dependable vehicle. Just a note, the manufacture
with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota.


mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154557432.542481.193170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Overtaking GM worldwide is more of a possibility than in the US. GM and
>> Toyota do not necessarily compete in the same small markets around the
>> world. The Japs have a better economies of scale in the small and
>> midget
>> cars, as well. As Toyota starts to sell vehicles in the US in the
>> million
>> rather than in the hundreds of thousands, as it has for a long time,
>> more
>> of their not so good ones are starting to come to the surface. Over time
>> that will erode the buyers perception of their so call superior quality.
>> Anybody in the business knows that Toyotas vehicles are no better on
>> average
>> than any other manufactures vehicles.
>
> Stop, you're killing me. Only a very few mfgrs. have the same
> reputation for reliability and durability as Toyota. Really only Honda
> has the same kind of "halo" although I am partial to VW myself (but
> their shitty dealer network and past issues with poor quality
> outsourced components has tarnished their reputation among the general
> public.)
>
> Anyone that can say with a straight face that there is no difference in
> quality between vehicles is quite simply ignorant. If that were true,
> we'd all just buy the cheapest car we could. Simply test driving a
> cross-section of the various cars in any given class will show up great
> differences in fit and finish, material quality, etc. etc. etc. and to
> disregard this is idiotic. Most people realize this, and try to strike
> some compromise between quality and price.
>
> nate
>

 

As I said before you are entitle to your opinion but that does not mean it
is the most valid. When I owned my fleet service business we serviced
thousand of vehicles monthly, of nearly every brand you can name. With our
meticulous service, as recorded in the records we accumulated, we saw little
discernable differences on average among the vehicles on the market today.
The only real difference is style and price and one need not spend at lot
more money to buy a good dependable vehicle. Just a note, the manufacture
with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota.


mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154557432.542481.193170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Overtaking GM worldwide is more of a possibility than in the US. GM and
>> Toyota do not necessarily compete in the same small markets around the
>> world. The Japs have a better economies of scale in the small and
>> midget
>> cars, as well. As Toyota starts to sell vehicles in the US in the
>> million
>> rather than in the hundreds of thousands, as it has for a long time,
>> more
>> of their not so good ones are starting to come to the surface. Over time
>> that will erode the buyers perception of their so call superior quality.
>> Anybody in the business knows that Toyotas vehicles are no better on
>> average
>> than any other manufactures vehicles.
>
> Stop, you're killing me. Only a very few mfgrs. have the same
> reputation for reliability and durability as Toyota. Really only Honda
> has the same kind of "halo" although I am partial to VW myself (but
> their shitty dealer network and past issues with poor quality
> outsourced components has tarnished their reputation among the general
> public.)
>
> Anyone that can say with a straight face that there is no difference in
> quality between vehicles is quite simply ignorant. If that were true,
> we'd all just buy the cheapest car we could. Simply test driving a
> cross-section of the various cars in any given class will show up great
> differences in fit and finish, material quality, etc. etc. etc. and to
> disregard this is idiotic. Most people realize this, and try to strike
> some compromise between quality and price.
>
> nate
>

 

As I said before you are entitle to your opinion but that does not mean it
is the most valid. When I owned my fleet service business we serviced
thousand of vehicles monthly, of nearly every brand you can name. With our
meticulous service, as recorded in the records we accumulated, we saw little
discernable differences on average among the vehicles on the market today.
The only real difference is style and price and one need not spend at lot
more money to buy a good dependable vehicle. Just a note, the manufacture
with the most vehicles recalled so far for 2006 is Toyota.


mike hunt


"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154557432.542481.193170@i3g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> Overtaking GM worldwide is more of a possibility than in the US. GM and
>> Toyota do not necessarily compete in the same small markets around the
>> world. The Japs have a better economies of scale in the small and
>> midget
>> cars, as well. As Toyota starts to sell vehicles in the US in the
>> million
>> rather than in the hundreds of thousands, as it has for a long time,
>> more
>> of their not so good ones are starting to come to the surface. Over time
>> that will erode the buyers perception of their so call superior quality.
>> Anybody in the business knows that Toyotas vehicles are no better on
>> average
>> than any other manufactures vehicles.
>
> Stop, you're killing me. Only a very few mfgrs. have the same
> reputation for reliability and durability as Toyota. Really only Honda
> has the same kind of "halo" although I am partial to VW myself (but
> their shitty dealer network and past issues with poor quality
> outsourced components has tarnished their reputation among the general
> public.)
>
> Anyone that can say with a straight face that there is no difference in
> quality between vehicles is quite simply ignorant. If that were true,
> we'd all just buy the cheapest car we could. Simply test driving a
> cross-section of the various cars in any given class will show up great
> differences in fit and finish, material quality, etc. etc. etc. and to
> disregard this is idiotic. Most people realize this, and try to strike
> some compromise between quality and price.
>
> nate
>

 

An engine made by FIAT to boot


mike


"grappletech" <noone@removenowhere.biz> wrote in message
news:1154565454_2931@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in
> newsubAg.764$1f6.85@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> If what you are saying is true, the Pinto, Vega, Horizon, and other
>> little crap boxes would still exist. I heard your words many times in
>> the past, but it was only temporary.
>
>
> The Omni/Horizon were decent cars. They had the 2.2 4 banger -- great
> little durable engine. Small cars get bad reps for being junk,
> unreliable. Usually it was lack of maintenance. People who buy cheap
> cars tend not to maintain them as well as more pricier cars because of
> the cheap initial cost of the cars and that these economy car buyers
> tend to be of a lower socio-economic class. A lot of Yugo buyers never
> bothered to change their oil and would have the Yugos with their seized
> engines towed to the dealer angrily demanding a new engine and when told
> no, replied "you expect me to change oil on a $3900 car!?" But the Yugo
> engine is actually a bulletproof, reliable, easy to maintain engine.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

 

An engine made by FIAT to boot


mike


"grappletech" <noone@removenowhere.biz> wrote in message
news:1154565454_2931@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in
> newsubAg.764$1f6.85@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> If what you are saying is true, the Pinto, Vega, Horizon, and other
>> little crap boxes would still exist. I heard your words many times in
>> the past, but it was only temporary.
>
>
> The Omni/Horizon were decent cars. They had the 2.2 4 banger -- great
> little durable engine. Small cars get bad reps for being junk,
> unreliable. Usually it was lack of maintenance. People who buy cheap
> cars tend not to maintain them as well as more pricier cars because of
> the cheap initial cost of the cars and that these economy car buyers
> tend to be of a lower socio-economic class. A lot of Yugo buyers never
> bothered to change their oil and would have the Yugos with their seized
> engines towed to the dealer angrily demanding a new engine and when told
> no, replied "you expect me to change oil on a $3900 car!?" But the Yugo
> engine is actually a bulletproof, reliable, easy to maintain engine.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

 

An engine made by FIAT to boot


mike


"grappletech" <noone@removenowhere.biz> wrote in message
news:1154565454_2931@sp6iad.superfeed.net...
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote in
> newsubAg.764$1f6.85@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> If what you are saying is true, the Pinto, Vega, Horizon, and other
>> little crap boxes would still exist. I heard your words many times in
>> the past, but it was only temporary.
>
>
> The Omni/Horizon were decent cars. They had the 2.2 4 banger -- great
> little durable engine. Small cars get bad reps for being junk,
> unreliable. Usually it was lack of maintenance. People who buy cheap
> cars tend not to maintain them as well as more pricier cars because of
> the cheap initial cost of the cars and that these economy car buyers
> tend to be of a lower socio-economic class. A lot of Yugo buyers never
> bothered to change their oil and would have the Yugos with their seized
> engines towed to the dealer angrily demanding a new engine and when told
> no, replied "you expect me to change oil on a $3900 car!?" But the Yugo
> engine is actually a bulletproof, reliable, easy to maintain engine.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----