On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:56:42 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:ucSdnRWhqPCtYNjVnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>>>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of
>>>> money....
>>>>
>>>> The best quote:
>>>> "We either need to change this company or have the Japanese come in
>>>> and run the whole place," John Lauve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080603/gm_sh...ders.html?.v=5
>>>>
>>> troll
>>
>> Okay, you go to plonky town.. Buh Bye! PLONK
>>
>>
>>
> let's see how this works:
>
> 1. you repeatedly troll.
>
> 2. i call you on it.
>
> 3. you stick your head in the sand.
>
> doesn't seem very smart. or social. but i guess problems with social
> interaction are why you're trolling in the first place.


Um, do you know what *PLONK!* means?

It means he realizes your real name is Walking Eagle* and has added you to
his round file. As in, your messages will be deleted by his newsreader.








*Walking Eagle...too full of to fly...

 

What color is the sky in your world? The fuel economy of American cars the
same size as made by the Japanese is as good as or better than Japanese
cars, look at the CAFE lists. GM for example, offers more car that get 30
MPG or more than does ANY import brand.



Domestic do not offer some of the midget cars that the Japanese offer, that
get better miles when compare to their compact and midsize cars, but they
are ALL imported not assembled in the US like some of their larger cars





"still just me" <wheeledBobNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:g0bg449tu0ojs1969pb4c0vdof6il4a8eh@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:00:28 GMT, "Don't Taze Me, Bro!"
> <One187@NoWhere.Com> wrote:
>
>>and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of money....
>>
>>The best quote:
>>"We either need to change this company or have the Japanese come in and
>>run
>>the whole place," John Lauve
>>
>>
>>http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080603/gm_sh...ders.html?.v=5
>
> RE: See Dr. Deming and why the Japanese whooped our asses in producing
> quality cars (and other goods) leading to *long term* success of the
> company and their economy. Most people were amused at the
> macroeconomic driven view that people like Deming took (and others
> still spout) but look at the benefits now vis-a-vis the US economy.
> You don't even want to read what folks like this are writing about the
> current US economy and direction.
>
> GM has no one to blame but themselves. Continuously. Repeatedly. Over
> and over again. The writing was on the wall in the 70's and they still
> haven't taken notice.
>
> The only good news in it for the US is that the Japanese discovered
> that their primary cost issue was distribution. So now, most Jap cars
> are made in the USA. In effect, the Japanese are now US car companies.
> And, contrary to what your friends will tell you at the water cooler,
> the majority of the money they take in is spent here, not back in
> Japan. See those funky economists for more of that.
>

 

Mike hunt wrote:
> What color is the sky in your world? The fuel economy of American cars the
> same size as made by the Japanese is as good as or better than Japanese
> cars, look at the CAFE lists.

Really? For every single catagory of cars (2 seater, Minicompact,
Subcompact, Compact, Midisize, Large, small station wagon or midsize
station wagon), the vehicle with the best mileage is a foreign car.

> GM for example, offers more car that get 30
> MPG or more than does ANY import brand.

Big whoop! GM has more brands than any import brand.

GM cars made in North America that get more than 29 mpg highway:

Chevy Cobalt, Malibu, Classic, Pontiac G5, G6, Vibe,

The Chevy Aveo (Korea) and Saturn Astra (Belgium) are made in either
Asia or Europe.

Toyota Cars that 29 mpg (highway):

Yaris, Camry, Corolla, Prius, Matrix, Scion xD

So Toyota sells as many models that get 30 mpg that are made in the US
by GM.

And Toyota makes two models that get more than 30 mpg CITY.

So, considering that Toyota has 3 brands (toyota, Lexus, Scion) and GM
has 7 (GMC, Hummy, Chevy, Pontiac, Caddy, Buick, Saab), Toyota does
pretty well.



> Domestic do not offer some of the midget cars that the Japanese offer,

You mean like the Chevy Aveo? Oh, I see what you mean: Chevy has to
import it.

> that
> get better miles when compare to their compact and midsize cars,

That's true. In every category of car, an import brand car (often made
in the US of mostly US parts), gets better mileage than the American
brand in the same size catagory.

> but they
> are ALL imported not assembled in the US like some of their larger cars

Like the Chevy Aveo. However, Toyota, Honda and other foreign car makers
do make cars in the US with mostly US parts. Toyotas, on average
(including cars that are made in the US and outside the US) have about
42% US content; Hondas just over 50%, according to a group supported by
retired Detroit-3 workers (Level Field Institute).

Jeff

> "still just me" <wheeledBobNOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:g0bg449tu0ojs1969pb4c0vdof6il4a8eh@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:00:28 GMT, "Don't Taze Me, Bro!"
>> <One187@NoWhere.Com> wrote:
>>
>>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of money....
>>>
>>> The best quote:
>>> "We either need to change this company or have the Japanese come in and
>>> run
>>> the whole place," John Lauve
>>>
>>>
>>> http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080603/gm_sh...ders.html?.v=5
>> RE: See Dr. Deming and why the Japanese whooped our asses in producing
>> quality cars (and other goods) leading to *long term* success of the
>> company and their economy. Most people were amused at the
>> macroeconomic driven view that people like Deming took (and others
>> still spout) but look at the benefits now vis-a-vis the US economy.
>> You don't even want to read what folks like this are writing about the
>> current US economy and direction.
>>
>> GM has no one to blame but themselves. Continuously. Repeatedly. Over
>> and over again. The writing was on the wall in the 70's and they still
>> haven't taken notice.
>>
>> The only good news in it for the US is that the Japanese discovered
>> that their primary cost issue was distribution. So now, most Jap cars
>> are made in the USA. In effect, the Japanese are now US car companies.
>> And, contrary to what your friends will tell you at the water cooler,
>> the majority of the money they take in is spent here, not back in
>> Japan. See those funky economists for more of that.
>>
>
>

 

On Jun 4, 7:54 pm, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:
> "Roadrunner NG" <R...@highlandcraft.com> wrote innews:484716e5$0$30193$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>
>
>
> > I'm a capitalist, but overcompensating executives that don't perform
> > and expecting the company to survive is stupidity that will kill the
> > company. Do you need proof? Also, do you have to defame the Lord to
> > make your point?
>
> >> Jesus, did none of you ever study economics and the free enterprise
> >> system? This isn't a commune trying to the wealth amongst
> >> everyone equally. This is a ing American business, whose goals
> >> are (and should be) to make the maximum profit possible for the
> >> company. How that company decides to compensate it's
> >> directors/executives and other workers is decided by the company.
> >> Rick Wagoner didn't set his own salary, the goddam board of directors
> >> (and shareholders) did. Don't blame the dude for accepting what they
> >> offer to pay him.
>
> >> We've got enough socialism in the country already. Just look at the
> >> circus which is the Democrat party if you want to see that.
>
> >> --
> >> "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
> >> Now filtering out all posts originating from Google Groups.
> >> The Usenet Improvement Project:http://improve-usenet.org
>
> WHERE do you see any authority under the US Constitution for government to
> make such decisions as to what a private company's execs are paid?
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net


You're either young and idealistic or painfully naive. Fundamental
ideologies of capitalism and communism are no longer valid. Granted,
the US government at some point has regulated certain industries, but
it wouldn't go as far as imposing caps on CEO's salaries. However, the
US government has always been the one, directly or by proxy, to bail
the venture capitalists out when they go brankrupt.

With the current US economic downfall and ed up financial
engineering, then soon enough, the whole US economy wil be bailed out
by the sovereign wealth fund (SWF) from the Arabs government, the
Russian government and even the Chinese, which is still listed as a
communist country. Think about that!

 

On Thu, 05 Jun 2008 17:22:23 -0700, bi241 wrote:

> With the current US economic downfall and ed up financial
> engineering, then soon enough, the whole US economy wil be bailed out
> by the sovereign wealth fund (SWF) from the Arabs government, the
> Russian government and even the Chinese, which is still listed as a
> communist country. Think about that!

I think you've got your tinfoil beanie on a little too tight.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Now filtering out all posts originating from Google Groups.
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

 

On 5 Jun 2008 00:00:21 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

>Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in
>news:178e44d2kc77fbiothmt12oms754qfudpe@4ax.com :
>
>> On 4 Jun 2008 12:16:36 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>>Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in
>>>news:5a5c44pdhbcgjtgkbqta93eqbm08pdh33p@4ax.com :
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:07:39 -0500, Dan C
>>>><youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:48:17 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of
>>>>>>>> money....
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ahhh. You're a socialist/Lib/Dimocrat, eh?
>>>>>
>>>>>> Umm, for thinking the shareholders should not suffer losing money
>>>>>> while the GM Chief is paid an insane amount of money?
>>>>>
>>>>>It's a fact of life, Junior. Sometimes shareholders lose money.
>>>>>That's the way the stock market and the free enterprise system works.
>>>>>As for the CEO making an "insane" amount of money... well, it's
>>>>>certainly more than other GM employees make, but that's (also) how
>>>>>things work. Those in charge get paid more. Simple fact of life.
>>>>>Perhaps if you had more education, you could make some money,
>>>>>yourself!
>>>>
>>>> Here is a fact for you. Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM got total
>>>> compensation last year of over $14 million. That is more than the
>>>> compensation of the CEO and the 36 board members of Honda Motor
>>>> Company combined. Honda had record sales last month. How is GM
>>>> doing? Oh, that's right, the death spiral thing - never mind.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, US executives are paid obscene amounts of money not just in
>>>> comparison to "other employees," but compared to their foreign
>>>> counterparts. Hard to see the value here. The truth is that American
>>>> companies are - more and more - being run for the benefit of the
>>>> executives rather than the stockholders or, god forbid, the mainstream
>>>> workers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>and whose fault is that?
>>>Do you suggest "there oughta be a law against it"?
>>
>> A law against it? Hell no. I think the tax tables need to be
>> adjusted.
>
>Ah,so everybody DOESNT get treated equally under the law.
>If you work smarter,earn more,you get taxed at higher rates as punishment.

He is taxed the same as everyone else. If I make $13 million this
year, I will pay the same tax he does.

If you mean the tax is progressive, you are right. It always has
been.

>> And when he tries to pass on this tremendous wealth to
>> whatever progeny might share his genetic makeup, that transfer should
>> be heavily taxed.
>
>DOUBLE taxation? The guy's income was taxed once,and he should be able to
>pass on his private property(assets) to his progeny without being taxed
>on the same income again.

Nope. It isn't the money being taxed, it is the transaction. If I
earn a dollar, I pay tax on it. If I pay the dollar to the plumber,
he gets taxed on it. If he buys groceries with it, the store pays
taxes on the profits. Daddy Richbucks gets taxed when he earns a
dollar. Then he passes it on to, perhaps, his no-good kid who never
worked a day in his life. Now if I had to pay tax and the plumber had
to pay tax and the grocer had to pay tax and even Daddy Richbucks had
to pay tax, why should the no-good kid have to pay tax?

>You must be a Socialist-Communist;everything is property of the State.

You must be an anarchist if you believe the state has no just
authority to collect taxes.

>Or simply jealous of those who do better than you,and want government to
>strip them of their earnings and life's accumulations.

If you are talking about estate taxes, I would point out that the
person who had the earnings and life savings is dead. The only just
thing would be to fill their yacht with the cash and the body, set it
on fire, and push it out to sea.

As for being jealous, no I am not jealous. I am angry at the super
rich who use their power to rape this country.

>> If the company then wants to make a major
>> contribution (albeit indirect) to the US Treasury, they can knock
>> themselves out.
>>
>>>BTW,companies are not run for the benefit of workers.
>>
>> And unions are not run for the benefit of the company.
>>
>>>They are run for making a profit for their owners.
>>
>> Tell that to the GM shareholders. I bet not 0.1% of them make as much
>> as Wagoner.
>>
>
>But it is STILL *THEIR* decision,not the US Government.
>Not in a non-Communist society.

Like I said, I wouldn't dream of stopping them from pushing his salary
well into the 80% bracket.

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Gib Bogle <bogle@ihug.too.much.spam.co.nz> wrote in
> news:g25gh5$btq$2@lust.ihug.co.nz:
>
>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>> "Don't Taze Me, Bro!" <One187@NoWhere.Com> wrote in
>>> news:Bvm1k.9117$jX.8234@trnddc04:
>>>
>>>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> newsan.2008.06.04.01.11.59.798335@moria.lan...
>>>>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:00:28 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of
>>>>>> money....
>>>>> Ahhh. You're a socialist/Lib/Dimocrat, eh?
>>>> Umm, for thinking the shareholders should not suffer losing money
>>>> while the GM Chief is paid an insane amount of money?
>>>>
>>>> How did you get "socialist democrat" from thinking the shareholders
>>>> should be treated right?
>
> As I said....
>>> why haven't the SHAREHOLDERS corrrected this?
>
>
>>>> Folks, above, I would like you observe what it is like to be
>>>> brainwashed by one of the various political sides. Anytime a company
>>>> gets questioned about ethics, there is always an extreme
>>>> conservative who thinks it is socialist to suggest a company have
>>>> such.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> it's socialist/communist to think that involving Government in
>>> regulating such affairs is the solution. Or any sort of "excess
>>> profit" taxation.
>>>
>> Who mentioned the government?
>>
>
> that is the usual demand;for Gov't to regulate something,when other means
> of control are not achievable.
>
> Since shareholders are not forcing "appropriate" CEO salaries or denying
> unearned bonuses,what other way is there?
>

There is no other way, that I've ever seen. People start voicing their
dissatisfaction (like the OP), a shareholders movement gathers steam,
and finally they rein in the irresponsible management. A bit like the
political process. Some want to stifle dissent, and label those that
speak out as dissidents, trouble-makers, communists ...

 

still just me wrote:

> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:00:28 GMT, "Don't Taze Me, Bro!"
> <One187@NoWhere.Com> wrote:
>
> >and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of money....
> >
> >The best quote:

> >"We either need to change this company or have the Japanese come in and run
> >the whole place," John Lauve
> >
> >http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080603/gm_sh...ders.html?.v=5
>
> RE: See Dr. Deming and why the Japanese whooped our asses in producing
> quality cars (and other goods) leading to *long term* success of the
> company and their economy. Most people were amused at the
> macroeconomic driven view that people like Deming took (and others
> still spout) but look at the benefits now vis-a-vis the US economy.

OTOH try Toshiba's tech support for their laptop computers and
discover why Japan's economy has been stagnant since the 1980s. The
people working Toshiba's first two levels of tech support seem to know
almost nothing about Toshiba computers and simply search the company's
website -- the very same skimpy website available to the public.
Once, when I asked for the maximum memory module size supported by my
computer, the "technician" replied, "2-0-4-8-M-B". I suspected that
he didn't understand what that meant, and he confirmed that he had no
idea what "M-B" was. At least a half dozen other Toshiba employees
were just as bad, including one who thought that my computer had a RAM
capacity of 160 gigabytes.

 

Mike hunt wrote:

> The fuel economy of American cars the
> same size as made by the Japanese is as good as or better than Japanese
> cars, look at the CAFE lists. GM for example, offers more car that get 30
> MPG or more than does ANY import brand.

More actual different cars, or more cars that are about the same under
the skin?

It's amazing that GM makes about 75 different models and has only 25%
US market share, but at its peak it had 50% market share with only
about 20-30 different models. Chevy alone used to have about the same
market share as all of GM does now.

I thought CAFE meant Corporate Average, not model average or size
class average. What's GM's CAFE compared to Toyota's or Honda's
(include or exclude trucks and SUVs as you wish)? If GM had a high
enough CAFE, would it have to sell so many budget cars, like Saturns
and Cobalts?

 

Gib Bogle <bogle@ihug.too.much.spam.co.nz> wrote in
news:g2amqf$eme$1@lust.ihug.co.nz:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Gib Bogle <bogle@ihug.too.much.spam.co.nz> wrote in
>> news:g25gh5$btq$2@lust.ihug.co.nz:
>>
>>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>> "Don't Taze Me, Bro!" <One187@NoWhere.Com> wrote in
>>>> news:Bvm1k.9117$jX.8234@trnddc04:
>>>>
>>>>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> newsan.2008.06.04.01.11.59.798335@moria.lan...
>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:00:28 +0000, Don't Taze Me, Bro! wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and shareholders suffer while GM pays GM Chief a crap load of
>>>>>>> money....
>>>>>> Ahhh. You're a socialist/Lib/Dimocrat, eh?
>>>>> Umm, for thinking the shareholders should not suffer losing money
>>>>> while the GM Chief is paid an insane amount of money?
>>>>>
>>>>> How did you get "socialist democrat" from thinking the
>>>>> shareholders should be treated right?
>>
>> As I said....
>>>> why haven't the SHAREHOLDERS corrrected this?
>>
>>
>>>>> Folks, above, I would like you observe what it is like to be
>>>>> brainwashed by one of the various political sides. Anytime a
>>>>> company gets questioned about ethics, there is always an extreme
>>>>> conservative who thinks it is socialist to suggest a company have
>>>>> such.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> it's socialist/communist to think that involving Government in
>>>> regulating such affairs is the solution. Or any sort of "excess
>>>> profit" taxation.
>>>>
>>> Who mentioned the government?
>>>
>>
>> that is the usual demand;for Gov't to regulate something,when other
>> means of control are not achievable.
>>
>> Since shareholders are not forcing "appropriate" CEO salaries or
>> denying unearned bonuses,what other way is there?
>>
>
> There is no other way, that I've ever seen. People start voicing
> their dissatisfaction (like the OP), a shareholders movement gathers
> steam, and finally they rein in the irresponsible management. A bit
> like the political process. Some want to stifle dissent, and label
> those that speak out as dissidents, trouble-makers, communists ...

McCain-Feingold is such an attempt.The "Fairness Doctrine" was another.
Liberals tossing pies in conservative speakers faces or shouting them down
are attempts to stifle;anti-free speech.
>

Or,like Communists/Socialists,they call for government to enact laws
against it.

Nobody is stopping shareholders from speaking out,debating,or adjusting
their exec salaries and compensation.
It simply has not happened.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Where did I say domestic do not import cars? You can pick and choose all
you want and believe whatever you choose, but what I posted is factual and
that is the fuel economy of American cars the same size as made by the
Japanese is as good as or better than Japanese cars, look at the CAFE
lists. In addition one does not need to settle for an underpowered car,
like the 4cy Camry, to get decent mileage when the buy a domestic. Import
brand penchant to spin their engines to higher RPMs so they can advertize
higher HP figures greatly effects the torque that one needs to get the
vehicle moving and keep it going up a grade. That basic engineering fact
reduces ones actual fuel mileage when one drives in hilly or mountainous
parts of the country.

The US Commerce Department does not agree with the domestic content numbers
you site, in any event

"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MH_1k.2502$v%.1415@trndny04...
> Mike hunt wrote:
>> What color is the sky in your world? The fuel economy of American cars
>> the same size as made by the Japanese is as good as or better than
>> Japanese cars, look at the CAFE lists.
>
> Really? For every single catagory of cars (2 seater, Minicompact,
> Subcompact, Compact, Midisize, Large, small station wagon or midsize
> station wagon), the vehicle with the best mileage is a foreign car.
>
> > GM for example, offers more car that get 30
>> MPG or more than does ANY import brand.
>
> Big whoop! GM has more brands than any import brand.
>
> GM cars made in North America that get more than 29 mpg highway:
>
> Chevy Cobalt, Malibu, Classic, Pontiac G5, G6, Vibe,
>
> The Chevy Aveo (Korea) and Saturn Astra (Belgium) are made in either Asia
> or Europe.
>
> Toyota Cars that 29 mpg (highway):
>
> Yaris, Camry, Corolla, Prius, Matrix, Scion xD
>
> So Toyota sells as many models that get 30 mpg that are made in the US by
> GM.
>
> And Toyota makes two models that get more than 30 mpg CITY.
>
> So, considering that Toyota has 3 brands (toyota, Lexus, Scion) and GM has
> 7 (GMC, Hummy, Chevy, Pontiac, Caddy, Buick, Saab), Toyota does pretty
> well.
>
>
>
>> Domestic do not offer some of the midget cars that the Japanese offer,
>
> You mean like the Chevy Aveo? Oh, I see what you mean: Chevy has to import
> it.
>
>> that get better miles when compare to their compact and midsize cars,
>
> That's true. In every category of car, an import brand car (often made in
> the US of mostly US parts), gets better mileage than the American brand in
> the same size catagory.
>
>> but they are ALL imported not assembled in the US like some of their
>> larger cars
>
> Like the Chevy Aveo. However, Toyota, Honda and other foreign car makers
> do make cars in the US with mostly US parts. Toyotas, on average
> (including cars that are made in the US and outside the US) have about 42%
> US content; Hondas just over 50%, according to a group supported by
> retired Detroit-3 workers (Level Field Institute).
>
> Jeff
>

 

On 5 Jun 2008 00:03:02 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

>Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in
>news:dm8e449ihd25pj0mcsq1ch16lh84evmf1d@4ax.com :
>
>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2008 07:48:29 -0500, Dan C
>><youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 23:27:46 -0500, Gordon McGrew wrote:
>>>
>>>>>It's a fact of life, Junior. Sometimes shareholders lose money.
>>>>>That's the way the stock market and the free enterprise system
>>>>>works. As for the CEO making an "insane" amount of money... well,
>>>>>it's certainly more than other GM employees make, but that's (also)
>>>>>how things work. Those in charge get paid more. Simple fact of
>>>>>life. Perhaps if you had more education, you could make some money,
>>>>>yourself!
>>>
>>>> Here is a fact for you. Rick Wagoner, CEO of GM got total
>>>> compensation last year of over $14 million. That is more than the
>>>> compensation of the CEO and the 36 board members of Honda Motor
>>>> Company combined. Honda had record sales last month. How is GM
>>>> doing? Oh, that's right, the death spiral thing - never mind.
>>>
>>>How much he makes in comparison to other executives (especially
>>>foreigners) is completely irrelevant. He was paid an amount that was
>>>decided upon by the board of directors, who are supposed to be the
>>>direct
>>
>> "supposed to" being the operative statement here.
>>
>>>representatives of the shareholders. Blame the board, and the
>>>shareholders, for paying him too much, if you must blame someone.
>>
>> Blame the Board (aka his golf buddies), sure. The stockholders' only
>> real vote is to sell. Considering that GM stock is worth no more now
>> than it was in 1960, I think a lot of them have already voted.
>>
>>>> Anyway, US executives are paid obscene amounts of money not just in
>>>> comparison to "other employees," but compared to their foreign
>>>> counterparts. Hard to see the value here. The truth is that
>>>> American companies are - more and more - being run for the benefit
>>>> of the executives rather than the stockholders or, god forbid, the
>>>> mainstream workers.
>>>
>>>Jesus, did none of you ever study economics and the free enterprise
>>>system? This isn't a commune trying to the wealth amongst
>>>everyone equally. This is a ing American business, whose goals
>>>are (and should be) to make the maximum profit possible for the
>>>company.
>>
>> I agree, that should be the goal. I am telling you that you are
>> naive. The purpose of the company is to make the top executives as
>> rich as possible.
>>
>>> How that company
>>>decides to compensate it's directors/executives and other workers is
>>>decided by the company. Rick Wagoner didn't set his own salary, the
>>>goddam board of directors (and shareholders) did. Don't blame the
>>>dude for accepting what they offer to pay him.
>>
>> And when he sits on the board of their company, don't blame them for
>> accepting what Rick Wagoner gives them.
>>
>>>We've got enough socialism in the country already. Just look at the
>>>circus which is the Democrat party if you want to see that.
>>
>> Democracy is so untidy. Let's just make Bush dictator like he said he
>> wanted.
>>
>>
>
>It appears YOU are the one who wants to assign "dictator" powers to the
>government.

GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I told all four that
there were going to be some times where we don't agree with each
other. But that's OK. If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a
lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../18/nd.01.html


>YOU want the government to dictate to companies how much they can pay for
>certain jobs.

I have clearly stated otherwise.

 

On 5 Jun 2008 00:05:06 GMT, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

>Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote in
>news:dm8e449ihd25pj0mcsq1ch16lh84evmf1d@4ax.com :
>
>
>Tell me,did you once post by the name "krztalizer"?

No, never heard of it.

 

Mike hunt wrote:
> Where did I say domestic do not import cars?

No where. I didn't say you said anything about this.

> You can pick and choose all
> you want and believe whatever you choose, but what I posted is factual and
> that is the fuel economy of American cars the same size as made by the
> Japanese is as good as or better than Japanese cars, look at the CAFE
> lists.

No, your opinion is not factual. The most fuel efficient model of each
type of car (midsize, subcompact, etc.) is made by a foreign automaker,
often a Japanese automaker. For example, each of the two biggest
automakers make more cars that get more than 30 mpg CITY than GM and
more cars that get 40 mpg highway than GM, too.

> In addition one does not need to settle for an underpowered car,
> like the 4cy Camry, to get decent mileage when the buy a domestic.

Considering that the Camry is one of the best selling vehicles in the
US, US consumers do not seem to think it is underpowered.

> Import
> brand penchant to spin their engines to higher RPMs so they can advertize
> higher HP figures greatly effects the torque that one needs to get the
> vehicle moving and keep it going up a grade.

Interestingly, one can get higher power by using a lower gear. That's
why there is a transmission on the cars.

> That basic engineering fact
> reduces ones actual fuel mileage when one drives in hilly or mountainous
> parts of the country.
>
> The US Commerce Department does not agree with the domestic content numbers
> you site, in any event

Your evidence of this is what? Exact URL, please.

However, the Level Field Institute did determine its domestic content
from data from the US Gov't, including the Commerce Department.

Jeff

> "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:MH_1k.2502$v%.1415@trndny04...
>> Mike hunt wrote:
>>> What color is the sky in your world? The fuel economy of American cars
>>> the same size as made by the Japanese is as good as or better than
>>> Japanese cars, look at the CAFE lists.
>> Really? For every single catagory of cars (2 seater, Minicompact,
>> Subcompact, Compact, Midisize, Large, small station wagon or midsize
>> station wagon), the vehicle with the best mileage is a foreign car.
>>
>>> GM for example, offers more car that get 30
>>> MPG or more than does ANY import brand.
>> Big whoop! GM has more brands than any import brand.
>>
>> GM cars made in North America that get more than 29 mpg highway:
>>
>> Chevy Cobalt, Malibu, Classic, Pontiac G5, G6, Vibe,
>>
>> The Chevy Aveo (Korea) and Saturn Astra (Belgium) are made in either Asia
>> or Europe.
>>
>> Toyota Cars that 29 mpg (highway):
>>
>> Yaris, Camry, Corolla, Prius, Matrix, Scion xD
>>
>> So Toyota sells as many models that get 30 mpg that are made in the US by
>> GM.
>>
>> And Toyota makes two models that get more than 30 mpg CITY.
>>
>> So, considering that Toyota has 3 brands (toyota, Lexus, Scion) and GM has
>> 7 (GMC, Hummy, Chevy, Pontiac, Caddy, Buick, Saab), Toyota does pretty
>> well.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Domestic do not offer some of the midget cars that the Japanese offer,
>> You mean like the Chevy Aveo? Oh, I see what you mean: Chevy has to import
>> it.
>>
>>> that get better miles when compare to their compact and midsize cars,
>> That's true. In every category of car, an import brand car (often made in
>> the US of mostly US parts), gets better mileage than the American brand in
>> the same size catagory.
>>
>>> but they are ALL imported not assembled in the US like some of their
>>> larger cars
>> Like the Chevy Aveo. However, Toyota, Honda and other foreign car makers
>> do make cars in the US with mostly US parts. Toyotas, on average
>> (including cars that are made in the US and outside the US) have about 42%
>> US content; Hondas just over 50%, according to a group supported by
>> retired Detroit-3 workers (Level Field Institute).
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>
>

 

On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 12:43:07 -0400, "Mike hunt" <mikehunt22@lycos.com>
wrote:

>Where did I say domestic do not import cars? You can pick and choose all
>you want and believe whatever you choose,

Speaking of believing whatever you choose, how are those Fords
selling, Mike? Seems like all it took was $4 gas and all of a sudden
didn't need, want or afford those F150 anymore. Remember this:

Gordon: Hey Mike, care to comment on US Ford sales falling behind
Toyota this year? Or the fact that Toyota may pass Chevy to be the
best selling brand?

Mike: Perhaps but the fact remains as of today the two best selling
vehicles are trucks not cars and both GM and Ford outsell any import.

>but what I posted is factual and
>that is the fuel economy of American cars the same size as made by the
>Japanese is as good as or better than Japanese cars, look at the CAFE
>lists.

OK. Comparing Cobalt to Civic and Corolla, The Japanese cars get 3-4
more mpg in the city and 4-5 more on the highway. Focus is better but
still 1-2 mpg short.

> In addition one does not need to settle for an underpowered car,
>like the 4cy Camry, to get decent mileage when the buy a domestic. Import
>brand penchant to spin their engines to higher RPMs so they can advertize
>higher HP figures greatly effects the torque that one needs to get the
>vehicle moving and keep it going up a grade.

Do you honestly believe that the Import brands have trouble going up
hill? If they were such dogs, they wouldn't be outselling the
domestics by such a huge margin, would they?

> That basic engineering fact
>reduces ones actual fuel mileage when one drives in hilly or mountainous
>parts of the country.

Of course, you have no evidence to support your poorly stated
assertion.


>The US Commerce Department does not agree with the domestic content numbers
>you site, in any event
>
>"Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:MH_1k.2502$v%.1415@trndny04...
>> Mike hunt wrote:
>>> What color is the sky in your world? The fuel economy of American cars
>>> the same size as made by the Japanese is as good as or better than
>>> Japanese cars, look at the CAFE lists.
>>
>> Really? For every single catagory of cars (2 seater, Minicompact,
>> Subcompact, Compact, Midisize, Large, small station wagon or midsize
>> station wagon), the vehicle with the best mileage is a foreign car.
>>
>> > GM for example, offers more car that get 30
>>> MPG or more than does ANY import brand.
>>
>> Big whoop! GM has more brands than any import brand.
>>
>> GM cars made in North America that get more than 29 mpg highway:
>>
>> Chevy Cobalt, Malibu, Classic, Pontiac G5, G6, Vibe,
>>
>> The Chevy Aveo (Korea) and Saturn Astra (Belgium) are made in either Asia
>> or Europe.
>>
>> Toyota Cars that 29 mpg (highway):
>>
>> Yaris, Camry, Corolla, Prius, Matrix, Scion xD
>>
>> So Toyota sells as many models that get 30 mpg that are made in the US by
>> GM.
>>
>> And Toyota makes two models that get more than 30 mpg CITY.
>>
>> So, considering that Toyota has 3 brands (toyota, Lexus, Scion) and GM has
>> 7 (GMC, Hummy, Chevy, Pontiac, Caddy, Buick, Saab), Toyota does pretty
>> well.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Domestic do not offer some of the midget cars that the Japanese offer,
>>
>> You mean like the Chevy Aveo? Oh, I see what you mean: Chevy has to import
>> it.
>>
>>> that get better miles when compare to their compact and midsize cars,
>>
>> That's true. In every category of car, an import brand car (often made in
>> the US of mostly US parts), gets better mileage than the American brand in
>> the same size catagory.
>>
>>> but they are ALL imported not assembled in the US like some of their
>>> larger cars
>>
>> Like the Chevy Aveo. However, Toyota, Honda and other foreign car makers
>> do make cars in the US with mostly US parts. Toyotas, on average
>> (including cars that are made in the US and outside the US) have about 42%
>> US content; Hondas just over 50%, according to a group supported by
>> retired Detroit-3 workers (Level Field Institute).
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>