"jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:L7mdnR6iMeMuVTfUnZ2dnUVZ_gULAAAA@speakeasy.ne t...
>
> you mean, how many can put up with the drama queen getting their panties
> in a bunch long after the case is proven? go to a doctor mike - get your
> sense of smell checked out.
>
>

"Jim," I have tried to be civil. You are not making sense and are becoming
increasingly rude. Be as blind as you want about this. I am out of here.

Mike

 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:L7mdnR-iMeP5VTfUnZ2dnUVZ_gWWnZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>> drama queen.
>>>>
>>> Now *that* is ad hominem.
>> no it's not! it's direct observation of fact! seriously, you need to use
>> a dictionary. and calm down.
>>
>
> From Microsoft Bookshelf, ad hominem is "Appealing to personal
> considerations rather than to logic or reason." Your "observation" (opinion)
> is immaterial to the subject at hand and I don't see how you could have
> meant it in any impersonal context. Thus, ad hominem.

no dude. look up wikipedia

argumentum ad hominem consists of replying to an argument or factual
claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the
source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the
substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.

that is precisely what you were doing. you couldn't refute the facts of
gasoline wetting and evaporation, so you went off on some tangent about
ignoring oil warning lights, smoke under the hood, etc. i never
suggested ignoring those things, so you undermined your own ad hominem
by using patent bullshit.



>
> I have been asking you to get factual but you have been ducking the
> questions.

er, i've repeated the facts for you several times...


> I checked your basic premise - that most or all cars smell of
> gasoline if shut down after a short run while cold - and found my car
> doesn't do it,

then you have a defective sense of smell!


> none of the other cars around me (including two Honda
> products) appear to do it, while another contributor says in his experience
> that some do. It really doesn't matter to me what you think of me; you are
> entitled to your opinions. I just wish you would focus - once more, why
> should anybody ignore the only warning of a well known hazard

well known hazard? in year-old cars with ZERO HISTORY OF THIS PROBLEM???


> of such
> serious consequences when it is *free* to check it out? Are you saying cars
> that smell like gas never have fuel leaks, or that without checking we will
> know which ones do and which ones do not?

i'm not saying either - and you're just clutching at straws. look at
the facts.


>
> You cite:
>> age of vehicle - but the vehicle is in the prime age range for an assembly
>> problem, increasing the risk.
>> track record of vehicle - the track record is not yet established for the
>> 2008 Fit. If it were a 2000 you would have a point.
>> use - he drives the car, just the way pretty much every other car that has
>> burned up has been used.
>> physics of situation - your theory did not stand up to testing, unless you
>> have some data of your own.
>
> And wake up.
>
> Mike
>
>
>

mike, get your head out of your *** and admit:

1. you weren't paying attention to the original facts.
2. you're not paying attention to the facts as followed up by the o.p.
3. you don't understand the physics of why it happens.
4. you shot your own foot with bullshit ad hominem.
5. you need to see a doctor.
6. you're a sore loser.

 

On 3/1/2009 11:37 AM jim beam spake these words of knowledge:

> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:2M6dnVVtXYQJNTfUnZ2dnUVZ_iyWnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>>> I am curious about what you would check out and what you would let ride.
>>>> Many oil pressure light indications are the result of a bad sender; do
>>>> you routinely ignore them? Engine temp lights and guages could be wrong,
>>>> too. Clattering sounds coming from the engine could be innocuous. Smoke
>>>> from under the hood can be anything. Diving momentarily to one side when
>>>> braking may be a sluggish brake caliper, not a ball joint failing
>>>> http://tegger.com/hondafaq/lowerballjoint/index.html .
>>> that is what's called "ad hominem". and utter bullshit.
>>>
>>
>> No - ad hominem is a personal attack.
>
> no, ad hominem is indirect attack. you're citing bullshit, then trying
> to imply that it applies.

You've researched this about as well as everything else. As usual, you
are partially correct, and think you know more than you do.

'Ad hominem' is literally translated as 'against the man'. Figuratively
it means the same. It *is* (generally) a form of indirect attack, but
Michael's definition (personal attack) is much more informative and apt,
and therefore much more correct than yours.

This is typical of your argument process and your shoddy reasoning
process. And *that* is ad hominem, although it is decidedly *not*
indirect. It is precisely to the point.

RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
Capitalization and punctuation mark the difference between 'I helped my
Uncle, Jack, off a horse.' and 'i helped my uncle jack off a horse.'

 

Dave Kelsen wrote:
> On 3/1/2009 11:37 AM jim beam spake these words of knowledge:
>
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:2M6dnVVtXYQJNTfUnZ2dnUVZ_iyWnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>>>> I am curious about what you would check out and what you would let
>>>>> ride. Many oil pressure light indications are the result of a bad
>>>>> sender; do you routinely ignore them? Engine temp lights and guages
>>>>> could be wrong, too. Clattering sounds coming from the engine could
>>>>> be innocuous. Smoke from under the hood can be anything. Diving
>>>>> momentarily to one side when braking may be a sluggish brake
>>>>> caliper, not a ball joint failing
>>>>> http://tegger.com/hondafaq/lowerballjoint/index.html .
>>>> that is what's called "ad hominem". and utter bullshit.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No - ad hominem is a personal attack.
>>
>> no, ad hominem is indirect attack. you're citing bullshit, then
>> trying to imply that it applies.
>
> You've researched this about as well as everything else. As usual, you
> are partially correct, and think you know more than you do.
>
> 'Ad hominem' is literally translated as 'against the man'. Figuratively
> it means the same. It *is* (generally) a form of indirect attack, but
> Michael's definition (personal attack) is much more informative and apt,
> and therefore much more correct than yours.
>
> This is typical of your argument process and your shoddy reasoning
> process. And *that* is ad hominem, although it is decidedly *not*
> indirect. It is precisely to the point.
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen


what is with you guys??? he can't address the facts, so he attempts
indirect discreditation of the person instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

oh, don't tell me - wikipedia's wrong on this one.

 

Thus spake jim beam <retard-trap@bad.example.net> :

>Dillon Pyron wrote:
>> Thus spake ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> :
>>
>>> On Feb 25, 9:41?am, Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpy...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> 08 Fit. ?We left it sitting in the dirveway for a while, and I pulled
>>>> it in in the evening. The engine probably ran for 45 seconds, max.
>>>> When I got out, there was the strong smell of unburned gasoline. ?
>>> but not so strong that you were tempted to open the hood and check for
>>> a fuel leak?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No. But Mr. Beam has pretty much nailed it, as far as I'm concerned.
>> I would think that if it were a leak, I'd smell it by the time I got
>> to work. Which, right now, is 1.85 miles away and takes me 5 minutes
>> on a good day and 7 minutes on a bad day.
>
>that kind of driving sucks for vehicle life - engine [etc] never gets to
>warm thoroughly [takes about 20 minutes]. you'd do the car [and
>yourself] a favor if you considered doing that commute by bike.

Yeah, but last semester it was a 20 mile one way commute. And school
is about 15 miles and 25 minutes (thank you, Austin downtown traffic).

And I still put in some good mileage on a regular basis. But yes, my
sister's commute is about the same distance. She ran through a total
of three mufflers on her 80 CRX (traded with 60K miles in 2005). Guy
at the Honda dealer (who did not do the muffler) told her it was the
water vapor that wasn't being sufficiently heated.

As far as the bike is concerned, US 290 west of Austin is deadly
enough in a car.
--

- dillon I am not invalid

Hi, I'm Michael Phelps and Olympic Gold isn't the only
Gold I'm thinking of.

Hi, I'm Michael Phelps and when I'm on Maui, Wowwie.

 

"jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:_9KdnZhEZsIGPzTUnZ2dnUVZ_t_inZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> gas stink is /inevitable/, and for the reasons stated.

Maybe you have a gas leak in your car, too?
I do not smell the gas from my car, from under the hood or from the tail
pipe.

 

On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:43:45 -0800, jim beam wrote:

> no dude - did you not read what i explained about exactly /why/ it
> occurs after a very short run like this??? true, it shouldn't occur
> after a warmup, and in that case, you /would/ investigate, but after a
> few seconds cold? gas stink is /inevitable/, and for the reasons
> stated.

Absolute and unadulterated bullshit.

I have *never* smelled gas on *ANY* fuel-injected car (Honda or
otherwise), regardless of how long it was run, unless there was a problem/
leak somewhere.

You're full of . Quit ing FUD, and/or just be quiet when you
don't know what you're talking about.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg

 

"Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:r0maq4d6iqnov3tnsqrg5rfmol5s5icff8@4ax.com...
> 08 Fit. We left it sitting in the dirveway for a while, and I pulled
> it in in the evening. The engine probably ran for 45 seconds, max.
> When I got out, there was the strong smell of unburned gasoline. Was
> this just a startup artifact, or maybe a cold run (the funky little
> blue thermometer was still on)?
> --
>
Dillon,

I asked the senior mechanic at work, Jim, if gas smells (not in my work
truck, which is diesel) are normal when the engine is cold. He said, "Yeah,
if you have a leak." Giving him more of the details he said the most likely
problem in a new car is a rolled seal between one of the injectors and the
fuel rail, in an older one the same seals harden when cold. The seals get
more pliable when warm and the smell goes away. He said that gas smells,
warm or cold, always mean a leak of some sort.

Mike

 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:r0maq4d6iqnov3tnsqrg5rfmol5s5icff8@4ax.com...
>> 08 Fit. We left it sitting in the dirveway for a while, and I pulled
>> it in in the evening. The engine probably ran for 45 seconds, max.
>> When I got out, there was the strong smell of unburned gasoline. Was
>> this just a startup artifact, or maybe a cold run (the funky little
>> blue thermometer was still on)?
>> --
>>
> Dillon,
>
> I asked the senior mechanic at work, Jim, if gas smells (not in my work
> truck, which is diesel) are normal when the engine is cold. He said, "Yeah,
> if you have a leak." Giving him more of the details he said the most likely
> problem in a new car is a rolled seal between one of the injectors and the
> fuel rail, in an older one the same seals harden when cold. The seals get
> more pliable when warm and the smell goes away. He said that gas smells,
> warm or cold, always mean a leak of some sort.
>
> Mike
>
>

and my friend's friend says you need to go to the doctor and get your
nose checked out.

 

Dan C wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:43:45 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>
>> no dude - did you not read what i explained about exactly /why/ it
>> occurs after a very short run like this??? true, it shouldn't occur
>> after a warmup, and in that case, you /would/ investigate, but after a
>> few seconds cold? gas stink is /inevitable/, and for the reasons
>> stated.
>
> Absolute and unadulterated bullshit.
>
> I have *never* smelled gas on *ANY* fuel-injected car (Honda or
> otherwise), regardless of how long it was run, unless there was a problem/
> leak somewhere.

then gasoline evaporates instantly when squirted on cold metal? i guess
my phase change data is all ed up then!


>
> You're full of . Quit ing FUD, and/or just be quiet when you
> don't know what you're talking about.

no dude, fud is bleating about taking a sub-year old car, with a
spotless manufacture record, for a warranty check-up when you don't know
basic physics.

 

jim beam wrote:
> Dan C wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:43:45 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> no dude - did you not read what i explained about exactly /why/ it
>>> occurs after a very short run like this??? true, it shouldn't occur
>>> after a warmup, and in that case, you /would/ investigate, but after a
>>> few seconds cold? gas stink is /inevitable/, and for the reasons
>>> stated.
>>
>> Absolute and unadulterated bullshit.
>>
>> I have *never* smelled gas on *ANY* fuel-injected car (Honda or
>> otherwise), regardless of how long it was run, unless there was a
>> problem/
>> leak somewhere.
>
> then gasoline evaporates instantly when squirted on cold metal? i guess
> my phase change data is all ed up then!
>
>
>>
>> You're full of . Quit ing FUD, and/or just be quiet when
>> you don't know what you're talking about.
>
> no dude, fud is bleating about taking a sub-year old car, with a
> spotless manufacture record, for a warranty check-up when you don't know
> basic physics.
Hmmm,
Smelling gas when cold, not smelling when warm, whatever, is the gas
mileage typical normal? Then what's the problem? Let's stop beating dead
horse no more!!!! I only look under the hood if mileage is not
normal(10Km/liter)

 

On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:52:41 -0800, jim beam wrote:

>> I have *never* smelled gas on *ANY* fuel-injected car (Honda or
>> otherwise), regardless of how long it was run, unless there was a
>> problem/ leak somewhere.

> then gasoline evaporates instantly when squirted on cold metal? i guess
> my phase change data is all ed up then!

WTF are you talking about with "squirting on cold metal"??? If there's
fuel squirting on cold metal (outside the cylinder), then there's a
ing leak somewhere, and that's a problem. Simple, no?

To repeat, in a *properly* working (modern, fuel injected) engine, there
should *never* be any smell of gasoline, regardless of the temperature.
That's it. There are no exceptions, and no amount of twisting by you
will change that.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg

 

Dan C wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:52:41 -0800, jim beam wrote:
>
>>> I have *never* smelled gas on *ANY* fuel-injected car (Honda or
>>> otherwise), regardless of how long it was run, unless there was a
>>> problem/ leak somewhere.
>
>> then gasoline evaporates instantly when squirted on cold metal? i guess
>> my phase change data is all ed up then!
>
> WTF are you talking about with "squirting on cold metal"??? If there's
> fuel squirting on cold metal (outside the cylinder), then there's a
> ing leak somewhere, and that's a problem. Simple, no?

go back and read the goddamned thread dan. right now, you're picking up
dog ends.


>
> To repeat, in a *properly* working (modern, fuel injected) engine, there
> should *never* be any smell of gasoline, regardless of the temperature.
> That's it. There are no exceptions, and no amount of twisting by you
> will change that.

read the goddamned thread.

 

"jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:fbCdnebqJf4ZcDDUnZ2dnUVZ_tmWnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Michael Pardee wrote:
>> "Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:r0maq4d6iqnov3tnsqrg5rfmol5s5icff8@4ax.com...
>>> 08 Fit. We left it sitting in the dirveway for a while, and I pulled
>>> it in in the evening. The engine probably ran for 45 seconds, max.
>>> When I got out, there was the strong smell of unburned gasoline. Was
>>> this just a startup artifact, or maybe a cold run (the funky little
>>> blue thermometer was still on)?
>>> --
>>>
>> Dillon,
>>
>> I asked the senior mechanic at work, Jim, if gas smells (not in my work
>> truck, which is diesel) are normal when the engine is cold. He said,
>> "Yeah, if you have a leak." Giving him more of the details he said the
>> most likely problem in a new car is a rolled seal between one of the
>> injectors and the fuel rail, in an older one the same seals harden when
>> cold. The seals get more pliable when warm and the smell goes away. He
>> said that gas smells, warm or cold, always mean a leak of some sort.
>>
>> Mike
>
> and my friend's friend says you need to go to the doctor and get your nose
> checked out.


Your friend's friend is a psychic doctor? Or is that your odd way of
claiming you are infinitely more qualified than a career auto mechanic?
Maybe you are just fond of wacky non sequiturs, since I didn't mention
anything about my sense of smell.

Dillon asked an honest question and I provided an honest answer from a
source I trust. He is entitled to know what I was told by a qualified
mechanic, whether it fits your explanation, or mine, or neither. What he
does with the info is his business. I would have reported it all the same,
though I have the distinct impression you would not have been so impartial.
I have no problem with people disagreeing with me - I have certainly been
wrong from time to time, often quite publicly - but the boorishness of your
posts is inexcusable. As you may have guessed, what you think no longer has
any importance to me, and I am sure the feeling is mutual... so why the
snide comments?

Mike

 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <retard-trap@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:fbCdnebqJf4ZcDDUnZ2dnUVZ_tmWnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Michael Pardee wrote:
>>> "Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>>> news:r0maq4d6iqnov3tnsqrg5rfmol5s5icff8@4ax.com...
>>>> 08 Fit. We left it sitting in the dirveway for a while, and I pulled
>>>> it in in the evening. The engine probably ran for 45 seconds, max.
>>>> When I got out, there was the strong smell of unburned gasoline. Was
>>>> this just a startup artifact, or maybe a cold run (the funky little
>>>> blue thermometer was still on)?
>>>> --
>>>>
>>> Dillon,
>>>
>>> I asked the senior mechanic at work, Jim, if gas smells (not in my work
>>> truck, which is diesel) are normal when the engine is cold. He said,
>>> "Yeah, if you have a leak." Giving him more of the details he said the
>>> most likely problem in a new car is a rolled seal between one of the
>>> injectors and the fuel rail, in an older one the same seals harden when
>>> cold. The seals get more pliable when warm and the smell goes away. He
>>> said that gas smells, warm or cold, always mean a leak of some sort.
>>>
>>> Mike
>> and my friend's friend says you need to go to the doctor and get your nose
>> checked out.
>
>
> Your friend's friend is a psychic doctor? Or is that your odd way of
> claiming you are infinitely more qualified than a career auto mechanic?
> Maybe you are just fond of wacky non sequiturs, since I didn't mention
> anything about my sense of smell.
>
> Dillon asked an honest question and I provided an honest answer from a
> source I trust. He is entitled to know what I was told by a qualified
> mechanic, whether it fits your explanation, or mine, or neither. What he
> does with the info is his business. I would have reported it all the same,
> though I have the distinct impression you would not have been so impartial.
> I have no problem with people disagreeing with me - I have certainly been
> wrong from time to time, often quite publicly - but the boorishness of your
> posts is inexcusable. As you may have guessed, what you think no longer has
> any importance to me, and I am sure the feeling is mutual... so why the
> snide comments?
>
> Mike
>
>

dude, you're being an ***. the explanation i gave you is a dumbed down
version of the physics involved. it happens, whether you like it or not.

as for your "friend", if someone came to me and said they could smell
gas, i'd say you needed to check for leaks. BUT /i/ would also ask what
the situation was, and given the facts from the OP, and knowing the
science, the reality goes beyond that. and if your "friend" /doesn't/
ask those kinds of questions, it's because they ant you out of their
hair ASAP.

oh, the temerity for calling a drama queen for what they are. left to
your own devices, you'd have had the whole damned neighborhood burned
down by now just to prove a point.