From Minneapolis:
Last Monday morning we had eight inches of fresh snow over a fairly
icy roadbed on I394. I was headed for the city and the left lane was
blocked by a police car at a previous accident,WITH HIS LIGHTS
FLASHING. We were poking along at about 25 MPH in a single lane when a
Explorer pulled out to pass the line. She speeded up to about 45 and
when she got near the lane closure there was no room to pull back into
line so she slammed on the brakes, did a perfect 180 and slammed the
police car still doing about 40 MPH. We all waved to her as we went
by. I'm sure her lawyer will point out why it was the cops fault for
blocking the Interstate.
During the Korean war I drove a Sherman Tank and I wonder what I would
have to pay to get one that still runs :-)
Bill

>J. Perry wrote:
>> Some of you guys may find the following story somewhat humorous.
>> Monday afternoon I was driving this little '89 Civic LX down I-40
>> East on a solid sheet of ice. You couldn't even see any concrete at
>> all on certain stretches of the highway that the state hadn't scraped
>> or salted yet. In fact, it had snowed about 4 inches first, and then
>> we had about another 1 inch of sleet and freezing rain on top of
>> that. I was running about 45 m.p.h. in order to try and put some
>> distance between myself and the ignorant redneck that was TAILGATING
>> me in a '96 Chevy Blazer 4X4. In the slow lane too--I might add.
>> Well, I could see in my rear view mirror that the Blazer driver was
>> all hacked off wanting to pass me. So, he whips it over to his left
>> really, really quick and gunned it simultaneously. Needless to say
>> that he went into a broad slide, and then he whipped it back to the
>> right to try and straighten his vehicle out. Well, when he did that,
>> the Blazer did a complete 360 and he ended up going down into a ditch
>> backwards! I gave him the peace sign in my rear mirror and chuckled
>> as I continued down I-40 in the '89 Civic. In a very stable manner I
>> might add. Since the guy had tailgated me for about 7 miles straight,
>> I figured that he got what he deserved for driving so recklessly in
>> that type of inclimate weather. BTW, the little Civic was like a
>> snowmobile in those icy weather conditions. It never even came close
>> to slowing down or spinning. Not the first time. I passed 9 accident
>> scenes with highway patrolmen already there on my way to work Tuesday
>> morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had wiped out
>> with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
>>
>> J. Perry
>
>Maybe you should have used your car to pull him out ;-)
>

 

From Minneapolis:
Last Monday morning we had eight inches of fresh snow over a fairly
icy roadbed on I394. I was headed for the city and the left lane was
blocked by a police car at a previous accident,WITH HIS LIGHTS
FLASHING. We were poking along at about 25 MPH in a single lane when a
Explorer pulled out to pass the line. She speeded up to about 45 and
when she got near the lane closure there was no room to pull back into
line so she slammed on the brakes, did a perfect 180 and slammed the
police car still doing about 40 MPH. We all waved to her as we went
by. I'm sure her lawyer will point out why it was the cops fault for
blocking the Interstate.
During the Korean war I drove a Sherman Tank and I wonder what I would
have to pay to get one that still runs :-)
Bill

>J. Perry wrote:
>> Some of you guys may find the following story somewhat humorous.
>> Monday afternoon I was driving this little '89 Civic LX down I-40
>> East on a solid sheet of ice. You couldn't even see any concrete at
>> all on certain stretches of the highway that the state hadn't scraped
>> or salted yet. In fact, it had snowed about 4 inches first, and then
>> we had about another 1 inch of sleet and freezing rain on top of
>> that. I was running about 45 m.p.h. in order to try and put some
>> distance between myself and the ignorant redneck that was TAILGATING
>> me in a '96 Chevy Blazer 4X4. In the slow lane too--I might add.
>> Well, I could see in my rear view mirror that the Blazer driver was
>> all hacked off wanting to pass me. So, he whips it over to his left
>> really, really quick and gunned it simultaneously. Needless to say
>> that he went into a broad slide, and then he whipped it back to the
>> right to try and straighten his vehicle out. Well, when he did that,
>> the Blazer did a complete 360 and he ended up going down into a ditch
>> backwards! I gave him the peace sign in my rear mirror and chuckled
>> as I continued down I-40 in the '89 Civic. In a very stable manner I
>> might add. Since the guy had tailgated me for about 7 miles straight,
>> I figured that he got what he deserved for driving so recklessly in
>> that type of inclimate weather. BTW, the little Civic was like a
>> snowmobile in those icy weather conditions. It never even came close
>> to slowing down or spinning. Not the first time. I passed 9 accident
>> scenes with highway patrolmen already there on my way to work Tuesday
>> morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had wiped out
>> with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
>>
>> J. Perry
>
>Maybe you should have used your car to pull him out ;-)
>

 

From Minneapolis:
Last Monday morning we had eight inches of fresh snow over a fairly
icy roadbed on I394. I was headed for the city and the left lane was
blocked by a police car at a previous accident,WITH HIS LIGHTS
FLASHING. We were poking along at about 25 MPH in a single lane when a
Explorer pulled out to pass the line. She speeded up to about 45 and
when she got near the lane closure there was no room to pull back into
line so she slammed on the brakes, did a perfect 180 and slammed the
police car still doing about 40 MPH. We all waved to her as we went
by. I'm sure her lawyer will point out why it was the cops fault for
blocking the Interstate.
During the Korean war I drove a Sherman Tank and I wonder what I would
have to pay to get one that still runs :-)
Bill

>J. Perry wrote:
>> Some of you guys may find the following story somewhat humorous.
>> Monday afternoon I was driving this little '89 Civic LX down I-40
>> East on a solid sheet of ice. You couldn't even see any concrete at
>> all on certain stretches of the highway that the state hadn't scraped
>> or salted yet. In fact, it had snowed about 4 inches first, and then
>> we had about another 1 inch of sleet and freezing rain on top of
>> that. I was running about 45 m.p.h. in order to try and put some
>> distance between myself and the ignorant redneck that was TAILGATING
>> me in a '96 Chevy Blazer 4X4. In the slow lane too--I might add.
>> Well, I could see in my rear view mirror that the Blazer driver was
>> all hacked off wanting to pass me. So, he whips it over to his left
>> really, really quick and gunned it simultaneously. Needless to say
>> that he went into a broad slide, and then he whipped it back to the
>> right to try and straighten his vehicle out. Well, when he did that,
>> the Blazer did a complete 360 and he ended up going down into a ditch
>> backwards! I gave him the peace sign in my rear mirror and chuckled
>> as I continued down I-40 in the '89 Civic. In a very stable manner I
>> might add. Since the guy had tailgated me for about 7 miles straight,
>> I figured that he got what he deserved for driving so recklessly in
>> that type of inclimate weather. BTW, the little Civic was like a
>> snowmobile in those icy weather conditions. It never even came close
>> to slowing down or spinning. Not the first time. I passed 9 accident
>> scenes with highway patrolmen already there on my way to work Tuesday
>> morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had wiped out
>> with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
>>
>> J. Perry
>
>Maybe you should have used your car to pull him out ;-)
>

 

"J. Perry" <j_perry@musicians.net> wrote in message
news:tDYSb.106$Dr3.4755@eagle.america.net...
> Some of you guys may find > passed 9 accident scenes with highway
patrolmen already there on my way to
> work Tuesday morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had
> wiped out with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
>
> J. Perry
>
> Its not the vehicle its the dummy drivers ? they dont have enough sense to
slow down to the conditions
ed/ontario
>
>

 

"J. Perry" <j_perry@musicians.net> wrote in message
news:tDYSb.106$Dr3.4755@eagle.america.net...
> Some of you guys may find > passed 9 accident scenes with highway
patrolmen already there on my way to
> work Tuesday morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had
> wiped out with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
>
> J. Perry
>
> Its not the vehicle its the dummy drivers ? they dont have enough sense to
slow down to the conditions
ed/ontario
>
>

 

"J. Perry" <j_perry@musicians.net> wrote in message
news:tDYSb.106$Dr3.4755@eagle.america.net...
> Some of you guys may find > passed 9 accident scenes with highway
patrolmen already there on my way to
> work Tuesday morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had
> wiped out with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
>
> J. Perry
>
> Its not the vehicle its the dummy drivers ? they dont have enough sense to
slow down to the conditions
ed/ontario
>
>

 

"J. Perry" <j_perry@musicians.net> wrote in message
news:tDYSb.106$Dr3.4755@eagle.america.net...
> Some of you guys may find > passed 9 accident scenes with highway
patrolmen already there on my way to
> work Tuesday morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had
> wiped out with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
>
> J. Perry
>
> Its not the vehicle its the dummy drivers ? they dont have enough sense to
slow down to the conditions
ed/ontario
>
>

 

"xxxxxxxx" <carpe_diem@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:9HrTb.14028$Ja2.84594@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>
> Its not the vehicle its the dummy drivers ? they dont have enough sense
to
> slow down to the conditions
> ed/ontario

You've got that right, Ed! Any vehicle can be operated in a safe manner in
any type of condition. It's the lack of common sense and/or skill and
ability of the driver, that reduces the chance of a safe trip.

--
Brian
www.accesswave.ca/~orion

 

"xxxxxxxx" <carpe_diem@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:9HrTb.14028$Ja2.84594@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>
> Its not the vehicle its the dummy drivers ? they dont have enough sense
to
> slow down to the conditions
> ed/ontario

You've got that right, Ed! Any vehicle can be operated in a safe manner in
any type of condition. It's the lack of common sense and/or skill and
ability of the driver, that reduces the chance of a safe trip.

--
Brian
www.accesswave.ca/~orion

 

"xxxxxxxx" <carpe_diem@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:9HrTb.14028$Ja2.84594@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>
> Its not the vehicle its the dummy drivers ? they dont have enough sense
to
> slow down to the conditions
> ed/ontario

You've got that right, Ed! Any vehicle can be operated in a safe manner in
any type of condition. It's the lack of common sense and/or skill and
ability of the driver, that reduces the chance of a safe trip.

--
Brian
www.accesswave.ca/~orion

 

"xxxxxxxx" <carpe_diem@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:9HrTb.14028$Ja2.84594@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
>
> Its not the vehicle its the dummy drivers ? they dont have enough sense
to
> slow down to the conditions
> ed/ontario

You've got that right, Ed! Any vehicle can be operated in a safe manner in
any type of condition. It's the lack of common sense and/or skill and
ability of the driver, that reduces the chance of a safe trip.

--
Brian
www.accesswave.ca/~orion

 

My family was driving back from Kennedy Space Center in a Sebring
convertible, top down of course enjoying the nice sunny day. Anyway, we hit
one of your downpours by the time I could pull over to raise the top the
downpour had ended. The wife looks over at me and remarked why bother with
the freaking top now, as we all looked like soaked rats and there was a pool
of water in the car. People just refused to let us over and your right very
few slowed down. The car rental place didn't think anything about it.
Guess it happens often.

Rick



"Keith J" <keith_757@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mtmdna9hjvg444HdRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> Down here in Florida, we don't have the snow/ice problems, but people here
> are just as unintelligent. If you've ever experienced a Florida downpour,
> (they are something) you know what I mean. The road seems to collect
water
> instead of running it off. I think it has to do with the road composition
> as over time the ruts compact more. Common sense tells you to slow down
for
> bad road conditions?!?! Why? that's for cars, not my
> Explorer/Expedition/Suburban/(pick any)... they have SUV's, you've seen
the
> TV commercials, they can drive anywhere.... yes, they do get to see the
> grass. Makes me wonder if the people you mention have relatives in
the
> south.
>
> Just the same, I have seen MANY cars take a stroll through the median and
> off to the right. Basically pick I-10 (in North Florida) and anywhere
> south. The interstates from mid-Florida south are partly comprised of
> crushed shells (yes from the beach) as fill. The problem is when tourists
> visit, which is everyday, they are not used to the road conditions when it
> rains. When shells get wet, they are like ice, then you add water that
> collects in the ruts, you have crashes. It seems that when you hear about
> the deaths on the roads (down here), they are mostly tourists.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> "J. Perry" <j_perry@musicians.net> wrote in message
> news:tDYSb.106$Dr3.4755@eagle.america.net...
> > Some of you guys may find the following story somewhat humorous. Monday
> > afternoon I was driving this little '89 Civic LX down I-40 East on a
solid
> > sheet of ice. You couldn't even see any concrete at all on certain
> stretches
> > of the highway that the state hadn't scraped or salted yet. In fact, it
> had
> > snowed about 4 inches first, and then we had about another 1 inch of
sleet
> > and freezing rain on top of that. I was running about 45 m.p.h. in order
> to
> > try and put some distance between myself and the ignorant redneck that
was
> > TAILGATING me in a '96 Chevy Blazer 4X4. In the slow lane too--I might
> add.
> > Well, I could see in my rear view mirror that the Blazer driver was all
> > hacked off wanting to pass me. So, he whips it over to his left really,
> > really quick and gunned it simultaneously. Needless to say that he went
> into
> > a broad slide, and then he whipped it back to the right to try and
> > straighten his vehicle out. Well, when he did that, the Blazer did a
> > complete 360 and he ended up going down into a ditch backwards! I gave
him
> > the peace sign in my rear mirror and chuckled as I continued down I-40
in
> > the '89 Civic. In a very stable manner I might add. Since the guy had
> > tailgated me for about 7 miles straight, I figured that he got what he
> > deserved for driving so recklessly in that type of inclimate weather.
BTW,
> > the little Civic was like a snowmobile in those icy weather conditions.
It
> > never even came close to slowing down or spinning. Not the first time. I
> > passed 9 accident scenes with highway patrolmen already there on my way
to
> > work Tuesday morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had
> > wiped out with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
> >
> > J. Perry
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

 

My family was driving back from Kennedy Space Center in a Sebring
convertible, top down of course enjoying the nice sunny day. Anyway, we hit
one of your downpours by the time I could pull over to raise the top the
downpour had ended. The wife looks over at me and remarked why bother with
the freaking top now, as we all looked like soaked rats and there was a pool
of water in the car. People just refused to let us over and your right very
few slowed down. The car rental place didn't think anything about it.
Guess it happens often.

Rick



"Keith J" <keith_757@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mtmdna9hjvg444HdRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> Down here in Florida, we don't have the snow/ice problems, but people here
> are just as unintelligent. If you've ever experienced a Florida downpour,
> (they are something) you know what I mean. The road seems to collect
water
> instead of running it off. I think it has to do with the road composition
> as over time the ruts compact more. Common sense tells you to slow down
for
> bad road conditions?!?! Why? that's for cars, not my
> Explorer/Expedition/Suburban/(pick any)... they have SUV's, you've seen
the
> TV commercials, they can drive anywhere.... yes, they do get to see the
> grass. Makes me wonder if the people you mention have relatives in
the
> south.
>
> Just the same, I have seen MANY cars take a stroll through the median and
> off to the right. Basically pick I-10 (in North Florida) and anywhere
> south. The interstates from mid-Florida south are partly comprised of
> crushed shells (yes from the beach) as fill. The problem is when tourists
> visit, which is everyday, they are not used to the road conditions when it
> rains. When shells get wet, they are like ice, then you add water that
> collects in the ruts, you have crashes. It seems that when you hear about
> the deaths on the roads (down here), they are mostly tourists.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> "J. Perry" <j_perry@musicians.net> wrote in message
> news:tDYSb.106$Dr3.4755@eagle.america.net...
> > Some of you guys may find the following story somewhat humorous. Monday
> > afternoon I was driving this little '89 Civic LX down I-40 East on a
solid
> > sheet of ice. You couldn't even see any concrete at all on certain
> stretches
> > of the highway that the state hadn't scraped or salted yet. In fact, it
> had
> > snowed about 4 inches first, and then we had about another 1 inch of
sleet
> > and freezing rain on top of that. I was running about 45 m.p.h. in order
> to
> > try and put some distance between myself and the ignorant redneck that
was
> > TAILGATING me in a '96 Chevy Blazer 4X4. In the slow lane too--I might
> add.
> > Well, I could see in my rear view mirror that the Blazer driver was all
> > hacked off wanting to pass me. So, he whips it over to his left really,
> > really quick and gunned it simultaneously. Needless to say that he went
> into
> > a broad slide, and then he whipped it back to the right to try and
> > straighten his vehicle out. Well, when he did that, the Blazer did a
> > complete 360 and he ended up going down into a ditch backwards! I gave
him
> > the peace sign in my rear mirror and chuckled as I continued down I-40
in
> > the '89 Civic. In a very stable manner I might add. Since the guy had
> > tailgated me for about 7 miles straight, I figured that he got what he
> > deserved for driving so recklessly in that type of inclimate weather.
BTW,
> > the little Civic was like a snowmobile in those icy weather conditions.
It
> > never even came close to slowing down or spinning. Not the first time. I
> > passed 9 accident scenes with highway patrolmen already there on my way
to
> > work Tuesday morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had
> > wiped out with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
> >
> > J. Perry
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

 

My family was driving back from Kennedy Space Center in a Sebring
convertible, top down of course enjoying the nice sunny day. Anyway, we hit
one of your downpours by the time I could pull over to raise the top the
downpour had ended. The wife looks over at me and remarked why bother with
the freaking top now, as we all looked like soaked rats and there was a pool
of water in the car. People just refused to let us over and your right very
few slowed down. The car rental place didn't think anything about it.
Guess it happens often.

Rick



"Keith J" <keith_757@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mtmdna9hjvg444HdRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> Down here in Florida, we don't have the snow/ice problems, but people here
> are just as unintelligent. If you've ever experienced a Florida downpour,
> (they are something) you know what I mean. The road seems to collect
water
> instead of running it off. I think it has to do with the road composition
> as over time the ruts compact more. Common sense tells you to slow down
for
> bad road conditions?!?! Why? that's for cars, not my
> Explorer/Expedition/Suburban/(pick any)... they have SUV's, you've seen
the
> TV commercials, they can drive anywhere.... yes, they do get to see the
> grass. Makes me wonder if the people you mention have relatives in
the
> south.
>
> Just the same, I have seen MANY cars take a stroll through the median and
> off to the right. Basically pick I-10 (in North Florida) and anywhere
> south. The interstates from mid-Florida south are partly comprised of
> crushed shells (yes from the beach) as fill. The problem is when tourists
> visit, which is everyday, they are not used to the road conditions when it
> rains. When shells get wet, they are like ice, then you add water that
> collects in the ruts, you have crashes. It seems that when you hear about
> the deaths on the roads (down here), they are mostly tourists.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> "J. Perry" <j_perry@musicians.net> wrote in message
> news:tDYSb.106$Dr3.4755@eagle.america.net...
> > Some of you guys may find the following story somewhat humorous. Monday
> > afternoon I was driving this little '89 Civic LX down I-40 East on a
solid
> > sheet of ice. You couldn't even see any concrete at all on certain
> stretches
> > of the highway that the state hadn't scraped or salted yet. In fact, it
> had
> > snowed about 4 inches first, and then we had about another 1 inch of
sleet
> > and freezing rain on top of that. I was running about 45 m.p.h. in order
> to
> > try and put some distance between myself and the ignorant redneck that
was
> > TAILGATING me in a '96 Chevy Blazer 4X4. In the slow lane too--I might
> add.
> > Well, I could see in my rear view mirror that the Blazer driver was all
> > hacked off wanting to pass me. So, he whips it over to his left really,
> > really quick and gunned it simultaneously. Needless to say that he went
> into
> > a broad slide, and then he whipped it back to the right to try and
> > straighten his vehicle out. Well, when he did that, the Blazer did a
> > complete 360 and he ended up going down into a ditch backwards! I gave
him
> > the peace sign in my rear mirror and chuckled as I continued down I-40
in
> > the '89 Civic. In a very stable manner I might add. Since the guy had
> > tailgated me for about 7 miles straight, I figured that he got what he
> > deserved for driving so recklessly in that type of inclimate weather.
BTW,
> > the little Civic was like a snowmobile in those icy weather conditions.
It
> > never even came close to slowing down or spinning. Not the first time. I
> > passed 9 accident scenes with highway patrolmen already there on my way
to
> > work Tuesday morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had
> > wiped out with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
> >
> > J. Perry
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

 

My family was driving back from Kennedy Space Center in a Sebring
convertible, top down of course enjoying the nice sunny day. Anyway, we hit
one of your downpours by the time I could pull over to raise the top the
downpour had ended. The wife looks over at me and remarked why bother with
the freaking top now, as we all looked like soaked rats and there was a pool
of water in the car. People just refused to let us over and your right very
few slowed down. The car rental place didn't think anything about it.
Guess it happens often.

Rick



"Keith J" <keith_757@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mtmdna9hjvg444HdRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> Down here in Florida, we don't have the snow/ice problems, but people here
> are just as unintelligent. If you've ever experienced a Florida downpour,
> (they are something) you know what I mean. The road seems to collect
water
> instead of running it off. I think it has to do with the road composition
> as over time the ruts compact more. Common sense tells you to slow down
for
> bad road conditions?!?! Why? that's for cars, not my
> Explorer/Expedition/Suburban/(pick any)... they have SUV's, you've seen
the
> TV commercials, they can drive anywhere.... yes, they do get to see the
> grass. Makes me wonder if the people you mention have relatives in
the
> south.
>
> Just the same, I have seen MANY cars take a stroll through the median and
> off to the right. Basically pick I-10 (in North Florida) and anywhere
> south. The interstates from mid-Florida south are partly comprised of
> crushed shells (yes from the beach) as fill. The problem is when tourists
> visit, which is everyday, they are not used to the road conditions when it
> rains. When shells get wet, they are like ice, then you add water that
> collects in the ruts, you have crashes. It seems that when you hear about
> the deaths on the roads (down here), they are mostly tourists.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> "J. Perry" <j_perry@musicians.net> wrote in message
> news:tDYSb.106$Dr3.4755@eagle.america.net...
> > Some of you guys may find the following story somewhat humorous. Monday
> > afternoon I was driving this little '89 Civic LX down I-40 East on a
solid
> > sheet of ice. You couldn't even see any concrete at all on certain
> stretches
> > of the highway that the state hadn't scraped or salted yet. In fact, it
> had
> > snowed about 4 inches first, and then we had about another 1 inch of
sleet
> > and freezing rain on top of that. I was running about 45 m.p.h. in order
> to
> > try and put some distance between myself and the ignorant redneck that
was
> > TAILGATING me in a '96 Chevy Blazer 4X4. In the slow lane too--I might
> add.
> > Well, I could see in my rear view mirror that the Blazer driver was all
> > hacked off wanting to pass me. So, he whips it over to his left really,
> > really quick and gunned it simultaneously. Needless to say that he went
> into
> > a broad slide, and then he whipped it back to the right to try and
> > straighten his vehicle out. Well, when he did that, the Blazer did a
> > complete 360 and he ended up going down into a ditch backwards! I gave
him
> > the peace sign in my rear mirror and chuckled as I continued down I-40
in
> > the '89 Civic. In a very stable manner I might add. Since the guy had
> > tailgated me for about 7 miles straight, I figured that he got what he
> > deserved for driving so recklessly in that type of inclimate weather.
BTW,
> > the little Civic was like a snowmobile in those icy weather conditions.
It
> > never even came close to slowing down or spinning. Not the first time. I
> > passed 9 accident scenes with highway patrolmen already there on my way
to
> > work Tuesday morning. 9 out of those 9 accidents involved SUVs that had
> > wiped out with apparently no other vehicle(s) involved.
> >
> > J. Perry
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>