Foreign cars pass Big 3
07-26-2006 | 10:14 AM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
types and bean counters are important."......
I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
This was especially true at GM. Going back to the days in the 1980's when
the ultimate bean counter, Roger Smith, was head of GM, you could see that
mentality. It could be said that GM still has not gotten out of the shadow
of the Smith era, no matter how much money he made the company back then,
and in fact, are now paying a heavy price for going down that road.
Regardless of what you think of President Bush, he may have nailed it.
Within the last year, when there was talk of possible subsidies to the
failing domestic car industries, his answer to the Big Three was short,
to-the-point, and right on the money: "BUILD RELEVANT CARS!" Why haven't
they? When you check what the Detroit bean counters have been doing, you
have your answer.
As has been pointed out, Detroit has now been reduced to mere marketing
slogans. For example, Ford may say, "Quality is Job 1," but a look at their
quality numbers, whether compiled by J.D. Powers, Consumer Reports, or
whomever, tell a very different story. Why? When you check what their
Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
And when I am looking to find an economical family sedan, not too big, and
not too small, I look out in the car world, and the choices are impressive.
Beginning with the wonderful re-design of the Hyundai Sonata, I can look at
Camrys, Accords, Passats, Optimas, Legacys, the list goes on and on.
Then you have the Chrysler entry, the Stratus/Sebring. They were never good
cars when they first came out, and to say they are horribly outclassed now
is an understatement. Why are they still being sold? When you check what
their Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
As was also pointed out, Detroit banked on large SUV's, large pick-ups, and
oversized coupes and sports cars, while the country now needs (and wants)
good, small SUV's and reliable, roomy, well-handling sedans. Why has
Detroit's recent response been to put out even more new re-designs on their
big vehicles? When you check what their Detroit bean counters have been
doing, you have your answer.
I'm not against bean counters. As I said at the beginning of the post, they
more than have their place. And make no mistake, the bean counters still
carry enough wait at places like Honda and Toyota to make sure they are
making plenty of money.
But enough time has passed that, if Detroit was ever going to "get it" in
terms of how best to make money and stay a world force long-term, it would
have by now. Instead, we have the news story that prompted this and other
posts.
So back to driving my Hyundai and Kia, and having LOTS of people asking me
if I think they are worth buying? (they are).
Tom Wenndt
types and bean counters are important."......
I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
This was especially true at GM. Going back to the days in the 1980's when
the ultimate bean counter, Roger Smith, was head of GM, you could see that
mentality. It could be said that GM still has not gotten out of the shadow
of the Smith era, no matter how much money he made the company back then,
and in fact, are now paying a heavy price for going down that road.
Regardless of what you think of President Bush, he may have nailed it.
Within the last year, when there was talk of possible subsidies to the
failing domestic car industries, his answer to the Big Three was short,
to-the-point, and right on the money: "BUILD RELEVANT CARS!" Why haven't
they? When you check what the Detroit bean counters have been doing, you
have your answer.
As has been pointed out, Detroit has now been reduced to mere marketing
slogans. For example, Ford may say, "Quality is Job 1," but a look at their
quality numbers, whether compiled by J.D. Powers, Consumer Reports, or
whomever, tell a very different story. Why? When you check what their
Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
And when I am looking to find an economical family sedan, not too big, and
not too small, I look out in the car world, and the choices are impressive.
Beginning with the wonderful re-design of the Hyundai Sonata, I can look at
Camrys, Accords, Passats, Optimas, Legacys, the list goes on and on.
Then you have the Chrysler entry, the Stratus/Sebring. They were never good
cars when they first came out, and to say they are horribly outclassed now
is an understatement. Why are they still being sold? When you check what
their Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
As was also pointed out, Detroit banked on large SUV's, large pick-ups, and
oversized coupes and sports cars, while the country now needs (and wants)
good, small SUV's and reliable, roomy, well-handling sedans. Why has
Detroit's recent response been to put out even more new re-designs on their
big vehicles? When you check what their Detroit bean counters have been
doing, you have your answer.
I'm not against bean counters. As I said at the beginning of the post, they
more than have their place. And make no mistake, the bean counters still
carry enough wait at places like Honda and Toyota to make sure they are
making plenty of money.
But enough time has passed that, if Detroit was ever going to "get it" in
terms of how best to make money and stay a world force long-term, it would
have by now. Instead, we have the news story that prompted this and other
posts.
So back to driving my Hyundai and Kia, and having LOTS of people asking me
if I think they are worth buying? (they are).
Tom Wenndt
07-26-2006 | 10:14 AM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
types and bean counters are important."......
I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
This was especially true at GM. Going back to the days in the 1980's when
the ultimate bean counter, Roger Smith, was head of GM, you could see that
mentality. It could be said that GM still has not gotten out of the shadow
of the Smith era, no matter how much money he made the company back then,
and in fact, are now paying a heavy price for going down that road.
Regardless of what you think of President Bush, he may have nailed it.
Within the last year, when there was talk of possible subsidies to the
failing domestic car industries, his answer to the Big Three was short,
to-the-point, and right on the money: "BUILD RELEVANT CARS!" Why haven't
they? When you check what the Detroit bean counters have been doing, you
have your answer.
As has been pointed out, Detroit has now been reduced to mere marketing
slogans. For example, Ford may say, "Quality is Job 1," but a look at their
quality numbers, whether compiled by J.D. Powers, Consumer Reports, or
whomever, tell a very different story. Why? When you check what their
Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
And when I am looking to find an economical family sedan, not too big, and
not too small, I look out in the car world, and the choices are impressive.
Beginning with the wonderful re-design of the Hyundai Sonata, I can look at
Camrys, Accords, Passats, Optimas, Legacys, the list goes on and on.
Then you have the Chrysler entry, the Stratus/Sebring. They were never good
cars when they first came out, and to say they are horribly outclassed now
is an understatement. Why are they still being sold? When you check what
their Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
As was also pointed out, Detroit banked on large SUV's, large pick-ups, and
oversized coupes and sports cars, while the country now needs (and wants)
good, small SUV's and reliable, roomy, well-handling sedans. Why has
Detroit's recent response been to put out even more new re-designs on their
big vehicles? When you check what their Detroit bean counters have been
doing, you have your answer.
I'm not against bean counters. As I said at the beginning of the post, they
more than have their place. And make no mistake, the bean counters still
carry enough wait at places like Honda and Toyota to make sure they are
making plenty of money.
But enough time has passed that, if Detroit was ever going to "get it" in
terms of how best to make money and stay a world force long-term, it would
have by now. Instead, we have the news story that prompted this and other
posts.
So back to driving my Hyundai and Kia, and having LOTS of people asking me
if I think they are worth buying? (they are).
Tom Wenndt
types and bean counters are important."......
I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
This was especially true at GM. Going back to the days in the 1980's when
the ultimate bean counter, Roger Smith, was head of GM, you could see that
mentality. It could be said that GM still has not gotten out of the shadow
of the Smith era, no matter how much money he made the company back then,
and in fact, are now paying a heavy price for going down that road.
Regardless of what you think of President Bush, he may have nailed it.
Within the last year, when there was talk of possible subsidies to the
failing domestic car industries, his answer to the Big Three was short,
to-the-point, and right on the money: "BUILD RELEVANT CARS!" Why haven't
they? When you check what the Detroit bean counters have been doing, you
have your answer.
As has been pointed out, Detroit has now been reduced to mere marketing
slogans. For example, Ford may say, "Quality is Job 1," but a look at their
quality numbers, whether compiled by J.D. Powers, Consumer Reports, or
whomever, tell a very different story. Why? When you check what their
Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
And when I am looking to find an economical family sedan, not too big, and
not too small, I look out in the car world, and the choices are impressive.
Beginning with the wonderful re-design of the Hyundai Sonata, I can look at
Camrys, Accords, Passats, Optimas, Legacys, the list goes on and on.
Then you have the Chrysler entry, the Stratus/Sebring. They were never good
cars when they first came out, and to say they are horribly outclassed now
is an understatement. Why are they still being sold? When you check what
their Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
As was also pointed out, Detroit banked on large SUV's, large pick-ups, and
oversized coupes and sports cars, while the country now needs (and wants)
good, small SUV's and reliable, roomy, well-handling sedans. Why has
Detroit's recent response been to put out even more new re-designs on their
big vehicles? When you check what their Detroit bean counters have been
doing, you have your answer.
I'm not against bean counters. As I said at the beginning of the post, they
more than have their place. And make no mistake, the bean counters still
carry enough wait at places like Honda and Toyota to make sure they are
making plenty of money.
But enough time has passed that, if Detroit was ever going to "get it" in
terms of how best to make money and stay a world force long-term, it would
have by now. Instead, we have the news story that prompted this and other
posts.
So back to driving my Hyundai and Kia, and having LOTS of people asking me
if I think they are worth buying? (they are).
Tom Wenndt
07-26-2006 | 10:14 AM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
types and bean counters are important."......
I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
This was especially true at GM. Going back to the days in the 1980's when
the ultimate bean counter, Roger Smith, was head of GM, you could see that
mentality. It could be said that GM still has not gotten out of the shadow
of the Smith era, no matter how much money he made the company back then,
and in fact, are now paying a heavy price for going down that road.
Regardless of what you think of President Bush, he may have nailed it.
Within the last year, when there was talk of possible subsidies to the
failing domestic car industries, his answer to the Big Three was short,
to-the-point, and right on the money: "BUILD RELEVANT CARS!" Why haven't
they? When you check what the Detroit bean counters have been doing, you
have your answer.
As has been pointed out, Detroit has now been reduced to mere marketing
slogans. For example, Ford may say, "Quality is Job 1," but a look at their
quality numbers, whether compiled by J.D. Powers, Consumer Reports, or
whomever, tell a very different story. Why? When you check what their
Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
And when I am looking to find an economical family sedan, not too big, and
not too small, I look out in the car world, and the choices are impressive.
Beginning with the wonderful re-design of the Hyundai Sonata, I can look at
Camrys, Accords, Passats, Optimas, Legacys, the list goes on and on.
Then you have the Chrysler entry, the Stratus/Sebring. They were never good
cars when they first came out, and to say they are horribly outclassed now
is an understatement. Why are they still being sold? When you check what
their Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
As was also pointed out, Detroit banked on large SUV's, large pick-ups, and
oversized coupes and sports cars, while the country now needs (and wants)
good, small SUV's and reliable, roomy, well-handling sedans. Why has
Detroit's recent response been to put out even more new re-designs on their
big vehicles? When you check what their Detroit bean counters have been
doing, you have your answer.
I'm not against bean counters. As I said at the beginning of the post, they
more than have their place. And make no mistake, the bean counters still
carry enough wait at places like Honda and Toyota to make sure they are
making plenty of money.
But enough time has passed that, if Detroit was ever going to "get it" in
terms of how best to make money and stay a world force long-term, it would
have by now. Instead, we have the news story that prompted this and other
posts.
So back to driving my Hyundai and Kia, and having LOTS of people asking me
if I think they are worth buying? (they are).
Tom Wenndt
types and bean counters are important."......
I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
This was especially true at GM. Going back to the days in the 1980's when
the ultimate bean counter, Roger Smith, was head of GM, you could see that
mentality. It could be said that GM still has not gotten out of the shadow
of the Smith era, no matter how much money he made the company back then,
and in fact, are now paying a heavy price for going down that road.
Regardless of what you think of President Bush, he may have nailed it.
Within the last year, when there was talk of possible subsidies to the
failing domestic car industries, his answer to the Big Three was short,
to-the-point, and right on the money: "BUILD RELEVANT CARS!" Why haven't
they? When you check what the Detroit bean counters have been doing, you
have your answer.
As has been pointed out, Detroit has now been reduced to mere marketing
slogans. For example, Ford may say, "Quality is Job 1," but a look at their
quality numbers, whether compiled by J.D. Powers, Consumer Reports, or
whomever, tell a very different story. Why? When you check what their
Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
And when I am looking to find an economical family sedan, not too big, and
not too small, I look out in the car world, and the choices are impressive.
Beginning with the wonderful re-design of the Hyundai Sonata, I can look at
Camrys, Accords, Passats, Optimas, Legacys, the list goes on and on.
Then you have the Chrysler entry, the Stratus/Sebring. They were never good
cars when they first came out, and to say they are horribly outclassed now
is an understatement. Why are they still being sold? When you check what
their Detroit bean counters have been doing, you have your answer.
As was also pointed out, Detroit banked on large SUV's, large pick-ups, and
oversized coupes and sports cars, while the country now needs (and wants)
good, small SUV's and reliable, roomy, well-handling sedans. Why has
Detroit's recent response been to put out even more new re-designs on their
big vehicles? When you check what their Detroit bean counters have been
doing, you have your answer.
I'm not against bean counters. As I said at the beginning of the post, they
more than have their place. And make no mistake, the bean counters still
carry enough wait at places like Honda and Toyota to make sure they are
making plenty of money.
But enough time has passed that, if Detroit was ever going to "get it" in
terms of how best to make money and stay a world force long-term, it would
have by now. Instead, we have the news story that prompted this and other
posts.
So back to driving my Hyundai and Kia, and having LOTS of people asking me
if I think they are worth buying? (they are).
Tom Wenndt
07-26-2006 | 10:30 AM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
snip
>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>> degrees and more "car people".
>
> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important.
I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
"car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>> degrees and more "car people".
>
> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important.
I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
"car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
07-26-2006 | 10:30 AM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
snip
>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>> degrees and more "car people".
>
> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important.
I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
"car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>> degrees and more "car people".
>
> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important.
I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
"car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
07-26-2006 | 10:30 AM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
snip
>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>> degrees and more "car people".
>
> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important.
I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
"car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>> degrees and more "car people".
>
> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important.
I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
"car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
07-26-2006 | 10:30 AM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
snip
>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>> degrees and more "car people".
>
> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important.
I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
"car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>> degrees and more "car people".
>
> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important.
I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
"car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
07-26-2006 | 05:59 PM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important."......
>
> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
Jeff
07-26-2006 | 05:59 PM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important."......
>
> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
Jeff
07-26-2006 | 05:59 PM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important."......
>
> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
Jeff
07-26-2006 | 05:59 PM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Rev. Tom Wenndt" <trwenndt@grics.net> wrote in message
news:ea7tgn02mst@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Jeff said: "You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
> types and bean counters are important."......
>
> I would agree with that assessment overall. But one of Detroit's HUGE
> problems is that the bean counters always got the final word.
Whose fault is that? Not the bean counters.
Who was stupid enough to give the bean counters the final word?
Jeff
07-26-2006 | 06:22 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:S%Kxg.18975$pu3.352767@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> snip
>
>>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>>> degrees and more "car people".
>>
>> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important.
>
> I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
> "car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
Actually, I would argue that the car people need more influence and the
accounts need to have less influence. It is not the fault of either group of
people. It is the fault of the management for their choice of to whom to
listen.
Jeff
07-26-2006 | 06:22 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:S%Kxg.18975$pu3.352767@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> snip
>
>>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>>> degrees and more "car people".
>>
>> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important.
>
> I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
> "car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
Actually, I would argue that the car people need more influence and the
accounts need to have less influence. It is not the fault of either group of
people. It is the fault of the management for their choice of to whom to
listen.
Jeff
07-26-2006 | 06:22 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:S%Kxg.18975$pu3.352767@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> snip
>
>>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>>> degrees and more "car people".
>>
>> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important.
>
> I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
> "car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
Actually, I would argue that the car people need more influence and the
accounts need to have less influence. It is not the fault of either group of
people. It is the fault of the management for their choice of to whom to
listen.
Jeff
07-26-2006 | 06:22 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Foreign cars pass Big 3
"Bassplayer12" <perettij@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:S%Kxg.18975$pu3.352767@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> snip
>
>>> The trick is also to hire less people with accounting and business
>>> degrees and more "car people".
>>
>> Incorrect. You also need accountants and other business types. Both car
>> types and bean counters are important.
>
> I totally agree with you. Read again my sentence. I suggested having more
> "car people" and "less" of the other kinds.
Actually, I would argue that the car people need more influence and the
accounts need to have less influence. It is not the fault of either group of
people. It is the fault of the management for their choice of to whom to
listen.
Jeff