Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news5SdnWmKkpbaklvfRVn-gQ@speakeasy.net...
>
>>Jim Yanik wrote:
>>
>>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:yqOdnZ1kMZnv0FjfRVn-
>>>tA@speakeasy.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>jean wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have a civic si 2001 and I'am looking for an engine software to
>>>>>communicate with the obd to change parameters
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>jean
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>don't believe you can do it through the port. when you read about people
>>>>"chipping" their car, it's because they've had to disassemble their ecu
>>>>to replace/reprogram the [e]prom that stores the operation map. the 2001
>>>>may be different, but i doubt it because no sensible manufacturer would
>>>>allow anyone to so easily create bogus warranty claims resulting from
>>>>inept remapping.
>>>
>>>
>>>from what I've read on Hondata's site,they alter the ECU to accept user
>>>programming,and provide a port to a PC for it.(VOIDING any warranty)
>>>IIRC,the OBD sensors can actually be used to monitor engine performance
>>>and record the data after a run,kind of like an on-board dyno setup.
>>>
>>>Hondata.com and I have no connection in any form to the company .
>>>
>>>
>>
>>wow, their prices are spectacular. as in, /way/ high.
>>
>>and i'm not sure about their mechanical engineering either:
>>
>>http://hondata.com/featuresrpm.html
>>
>>says honda ecus are mapped to 9k??? revs are usually limited to absolute
>>max of 7k, 8k for the hot dual cams.
>>
>>something does not compute.
>>
>
> That seems odd to me too - do the VTECs hit 9K?

i think the exotics & the s2000 do, but none of the "normal" hondas do.
a /lot/ of work goes into getting honda reliability at those revs.

> But then I don't understand
> why people go to such lengths to enable their cars to go faster when every
> experienced driver can remember at least one time when they wished with all
> their hearts they were going slower. A strange mania indeed.
>
> Mike
>
>

 

Michael Pardee wrote:
> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news5SdnWmKkpbaklvfRVn-gQ@speakeasy.net...
>
>>Jim Yanik wrote:
>>
>>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:yqOdnZ1kMZnv0FjfRVn-
>>>tA@speakeasy.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>jean wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I have a civic si 2001 and I'am looking for an engine software to
>>>>>communicate with the obd to change parameters
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>jean
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>don't believe you can do it through the port. when you read about people
>>>>"chipping" their car, it's because they've had to disassemble their ecu
>>>>to replace/reprogram the [e]prom that stores the operation map. the 2001
>>>>may be different, but i doubt it because no sensible manufacturer would
>>>>allow anyone to so easily create bogus warranty claims resulting from
>>>>inept remapping.
>>>
>>>
>>>from what I've read on Hondata's site,they alter the ECU to accept user
>>>programming,and provide a port to a PC for it.(VOIDING any warranty)
>>>IIRC,the OBD sensors can actually be used to monitor engine performance
>>>and record the data after a run,kind of like an on-board dyno setup.
>>>
>>>Hondata.com and I have no connection in any form to the company .
>>>
>>>
>>
>>wow, their prices are spectacular. as in, /way/ high.
>>
>>and i'm not sure about their mechanical engineering either:
>>
>>http://hondata.com/featuresrpm.html
>>
>>says honda ecus are mapped to 9k??? revs are usually limited to absolute
>>max of 7k, 8k for the hot dual cams.
>>
>>something does not compute.
>>
>
> That seems odd to me too - do the VTECs hit 9K?

i think the exotics & the s2000 do, but none of the "normal" hondas do.
a /lot/ of work goes into getting honda reliability at those revs.

> But then I don't understand
> why people go to such lengths to enable their cars to go faster when every
> experienced driver can remember at least one time when they wished with all
> their hearts they were going slower. A strange mania indeed.
>
> Mike
>
>

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:wbydnY24sK_5NFvfRVn-sg@speakeasy.net:

> jean wrote:
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> a écrit dans le
>> message de news: x9Sdnc8csICKGVvfRVn-1w@sedona.net...

> >
> > I notice that the civic si vtec 2001 has a carb instead of injectors
> , my
> > 1998 had injectors is it a technical regression ?
>
> really? you got a link for that? i see no online parts list showing
> a carb for that model, or indeed any 2001 si in the u.s.



Some regions of the world have emissions laws that are sufficiently light
that carburetors are still viable. It is possible the car in question is
one of those.

The only reason we have ubiquitous fuel injection here is because federal
emissions limits are far, far too low for even electronically-controlled
carburetors to be able to meet.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:wbydnY24sK_5NFvfRVn-sg@speakeasy.net:

> jean wrote:
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> a écrit dans le
>> message de news: x9Sdnc8csICKGVvfRVn-1w@sedona.net...

> >
> > I notice that the civic si vtec 2001 has a carb instead of injectors
> , my
> > 1998 had injectors is it a technical regression ?
>
> really? you got a link for that? i see no online parts list showing
> a carb for that model, or indeed any 2001 si in the u.s.



Some regions of the world have emissions laws that are sufficiently light
that carburetors are still viable. It is possible the car in question is
one of those.

The only reason we have ubiquitous fuel injection here is because federal
emissions limits are far, far too low for even electronically-controlled
carburetors to be able to meet.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:x9Sdnc8csICKGVvfRVn-1w@sedona.net:

> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news5SdnWmKkpbaklvfRVn-gQ@speakeasy.net...
>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:yqOdnZ1kMZnv0FjfRVn-
>>> tA@speakeasy.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>>jean wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have a civic si 2001 and I'am looking for an engine software to
>>>>>communicate with the obd to change parameters
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>jean
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>don't believe you can do it through the port. when you read about
>>>>people "chipping" their car, it's because they've had to disassemble
>>>>their ecu to replace/reprogram the [e]prom that stores the operation
>>>>map. the 2001 may be different, but i doubt it because no sensible
>>>>manufacturer would allow anyone to so easily create bogus warranty
>>>>claims resulting from inept remapping.
>>>
>>>
>>> from what I've read on Hondata's site,they alter the ECU to accept
>>> user programming,and provide a port to a PC for it.(VOIDING any
>>> warranty) IIRC,the OBD sensors can actually be used to monitor
>>> engine performance and record the data after a run,kind of like an
>>> on-board dyno setup.
>>>
>>> Hondata.com and I have no connection in any form to the company .
>>>
>>>
>> wow, their prices are spectacular. as in, /way/ high.
>>
>> and i'm not sure about their mechanical engineering either:
>>
>> http://hondata.com/featuresrpm.html
>>
>> says honda ecus are mapped to 9k??? revs are usually limited to
>> absolute max of 7k, 8k for the hot dual cams.
>>
>> something does not compute.
>>
> That seems odd to me too - do the VTECs hit 9K? But then I don't
> understand why people go to such lengths to enable their cars to go
> faster when every experienced driver can remember at least one time
> when they wished with all their hearts they were going slower. A
> strange mania indeed.
>
> Mike
>
>
>

That 8K rev limit is from the manufacturer;the tuners may decide to beef up
the valve trains for even higher RPMs,or they may believe that the motors
will do that sort of RPMs without mods.
I note that professional racing motors do turn much higher RPMs to gain
much of their HP. And look at what motorcycle motors spin up to.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:x9Sdnc8csICKGVvfRVn-1w@sedona.net:

> "jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
> news5SdnWmKkpbaklvfRVn-gQ@speakeasy.net...
>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>> jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:yqOdnZ1kMZnv0FjfRVn-
>>> tA@speakeasy.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>>jean wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have a civic si 2001 and I'am looking for an engine software to
>>>>>communicate with the obd to change parameters
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>jean
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>don't believe you can do it through the port. when you read about
>>>>people "chipping" their car, it's because they've had to disassemble
>>>>their ecu to replace/reprogram the [e]prom that stores the operation
>>>>map. the 2001 may be different, but i doubt it because no sensible
>>>>manufacturer would allow anyone to so easily create bogus warranty
>>>>claims resulting from inept remapping.
>>>
>>>
>>> from what I've read on Hondata's site,they alter the ECU to accept
>>> user programming,and provide a port to a PC for it.(VOIDING any
>>> warranty) IIRC,the OBD sensors can actually be used to monitor
>>> engine performance and record the data after a run,kind of like an
>>> on-board dyno setup.
>>>
>>> Hondata.com and I have no connection in any form to the company .
>>>
>>>
>> wow, their prices are spectacular. as in, /way/ high.
>>
>> and i'm not sure about their mechanical engineering either:
>>
>> http://hondata.com/featuresrpm.html
>>
>> says honda ecus are mapped to 9k??? revs are usually limited to
>> absolute max of 7k, 8k for the hot dual cams.
>>
>> something does not compute.
>>
> That seems odd to me too - do the VTECs hit 9K? But then I don't
> understand why people go to such lengths to enable their cars to go
> faster when every experienced driver can remember at least one time
> when they wished with all their hearts they were going slower. A
> strange mania indeed.
>
> Mike
>
>
>

That 8K rev limit is from the manufacturer;the tuners may decide to beef up
the valve trains for even higher RPMs,or they may believe that the motors
will do that sort of RPMs without mods.
I note that professional racing motors do turn much higher RPMs to gain
much of their HP. And look at what motorcycle motors spin up to.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:wbydnY24sK_5NFvfRVn-sg@speakeasy.net:

> jean wrote:
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> a écrit dans le
>> message de news: x9Sdnc8csICKGVvfRVn-1w@sedona.net...
>>
>>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>>news5SdnWmKkpbaklvfRVn-gQ@speakeasy.net...
>>>
>>>>Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:yqOdnZ1kMZnv0FjfRVn-
>>>>>tA@speakeasy.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>jean wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have a civic si 2001 and I'am looking for an engine software to
>>>>>>>communicate with the obd to change parameters
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>jean
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>don't believe you can do it through the port. when you read about
>>>>>>people "chipping" their car, it's because they've had to
>>>>>>disassemble their ecu to replace/reprogram the [e]prom that stores
>>>>>>the operation map. the 2001 may be different, but i doubt it
>>>>>>because no sensible manufacturer would allow anyone to so easily
>>>>>>create bogus warranty claims resulting from inept remapping.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>from what I've read on Hondata's site,they alter the ECU to accept
>>>>>user programming,and provide a port to a PC for it.(VOIDING any
>>>>>warranty) IIRC,the OBD sensors can actually be used to monitor
>>>>>engine performance and record the data after a run,kind of like an
>>>>>on-board dyno setup.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hondata.com and I have no connection in any form to the company .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>wow, their prices are spectacular. as in, /way/ high.
>>>>
>>>>and i'm not sure about their mechanical engineering either:
>>>>
>>>>http://hondata.com/featuresrpm.html
>>>>
>>>>says honda ecus are mapped to 9k??? revs are usually limited to
>>>>absolute max of 7k, 8k for the hot dual cams.
>>>>
>>>>something does not compute.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That seems odd to me too - do the VTECs hit 9K? But then I don't
>>>understand why people go to such lengths to enable their cars to go
>>>faster when every experienced driver can remember at least one time
>>>when they wished with all their hearts they were going slower. A
>>>strange mania indeed.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> > Tks guy !
> >
> > I think that over 7k the valves are flotting and we loose power at
> > that point.
>
> which is one reason why we can't just adjust the rev limiter. need to
> address valve train, cam, timing, balance, & strength of moving parts
> before high revs "work".
>
> >
> > I notice that the civic si vtec 2001 has a carb instead of injectors
> , my
> > 1998 had injectors is it a technical regression ?
>
> really? you got a link for that? i see no online parts list showing
> a carb for that model, or indeed any 2001 si in the u.s.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > jean
> >
> >
>

Me may be mistaking the throttle body for a carb.
He should look for the fuel rail and the injectors on the intake manifold.

Does any manufacturer use carbs any more? I don't believe so,just due to
emissions control alone.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in
news:wbydnY24sK_5NFvfRVn-sg@speakeasy.net:

> jean wrote:
>> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> a écrit dans le
>> message de news: x9Sdnc8csICKGVvfRVn-1w@sedona.net...
>>
>>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>>news5SdnWmKkpbaklvfRVn-gQ@speakeasy.net...
>>>
>>>>Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:yqOdnZ1kMZnv0FjfRVn-
>>>>>tA@speakeasy.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>jean wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have a civic si 2001 and I'am looking for an engine software to
>>>>>>>communicate with the obd to change parameters
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>jean
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>don't believe you can do it through the port. when you read about
>>>>>>people "chipping" their car, it's because they've had to
>>>>>>disassemble their ecu to replace/reprogram the [e]prom that stores
>>>>>>the operation map. the 2001 may be different, but i doubt it
>>>>>>because no sensible manufacturer would allow anyone to so easily
>>>>>>create bogus warranty claims resulting from inept remapping.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>from what I've read on Hondata's site,they alter the ECU to accept
>>>>>user programming,and provide a port to a PC for it.(VOIDING any
>>>>>warranty) IIRC,the OBD sensors can actually be used to monitor
>>>>>engine performance and record the data after a run,kind of like an
>>>>>on-board dyno setup.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hondata.com and I have no connection in any form to the company .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>wow, their prices are spectacular. as in, /way/ high.
>>>>
>>>>and i'm not sure about their mechanical engineering either:
>>>>
>>>>http://hondata.com/featuresrpm.html
>>>>
>>>>says honda ecus are mapped to 9k??? revs are usually limited to
>>>>absolute max of 7k, 8k for the hot dual cams.
>>>>
>>>>something does not compute.
>>>>
>>>
>>>That seems odd to me too - do the VTECs hit 9K? But then I don't
>>>understand why people go to such lengths to enable their cars to go
>>>faster when every experienced driver can remember at least one time
>>>when they wished with all their hearts they were going slower. A
>>>strange mania indeed.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> > Tks guy !
> >
> > I think that over 7k the valves are flotting and we loose power at
> > that point.
>
> which is one reason why we can't just adjust the rev limiter. need to
> address valve train, cam, timing, balance, & strength of moving parts
> before high revs "work".
>
> >
> > I notice that the civic si vtec 2001 has a carb instead of injectors
> , my
> > 1998 had injectors is it a technical regression ?
>
> really? you got a link for that? i see no online parts list showing
> a carb for that model, or indeed any 2001 si in the u.s.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > jean
> >
> >
>

Me may be mistaking the throttle body for a carb.
He should look for the fuel rail and the injectors on the intake manifold.

Does any manufacturer use carbs any more? I don't believe so,just due to
emissions control alone.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
> news:x9Sdnc8csICKGVvfRVn-1w@sedona.net:
>
>
>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>news5SdnWmKkpbaklvfRVn-gQ@speakeasy.net...
>>
>>>Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>
>>>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:yqOdnZ1kMZnv0FjfRVn-
>>>>tA@speakeasy.net:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>jean wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I have a civic si 2001 and I'am looking for an engine software to
>>>>>>communicate with the obd to change parameters
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>jean
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>don't believe you can do it through the port. when you read about
>>>>>people "chipping" their car, it's because they've had to disassemble
>>>>>their ecu to replace/reprogram the [e]prom that stores the operation
>>>>>map. the 2001 may be different, but i doubt it because no sensible
>>>>>manufacturer would allow anyone to so easily create bogus warranty
>>>>>claims resulting from inept remapping.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>from what I've read on Hondata's site,they alter the ECU to accept
>>>>user programming,and provide a port to a PC for it.(VOIDING any
>>>>warranty) IIRC,the OBD sensors can actually be used to monitor
>>>>engine performance and record the data after a run,kind of like an
>>>>on-board dyno setup.
>>>>
>>>>Hondata.com and I have no connection in any form to the company .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>wow, their prices are spectacular. as in, /way/ high.
>>>
>>>and i'm not sure about their mechanical engineering either:
>>>
>>>http://hondata.com/featuresrpm.html
>>>
>>>says honda ecus are mapped to 9k??? revs are usually limited to
>>>absolute max of 7k, 8k for the hot dual cams.
>>>
>>>something does not compute.
>>>
>>
>>That seems odd to me too - do the VTECs hit 9K? But then I don't
>>understand why people go to such lengths to enable their cars to go
>>faster when every experienced driver can remember at least one time
>>when they wished with all their hearts they were going slower. A
>>strange mania indeed.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> That 8K rev limit is from the manufacturer;the tuners may decide to beef up
> the valve trains for even higher RPMs,or they may believe that the motors
> will do that sort of RPMs without mods.
> I note that professional racing motors do turn much higher RPMs to gain
> much of their HP. And look at what motorcycle motors spin up to.
>
no doubt - motorcycles & F1 are great examples of what's possible. but
you can't do that on a stock motor - or at least, not without
substantial problems.

stock motors are balanced within a certain range to keep production
costs down. if you want high revs, you /have/ to balance much more
carefully, and that's expensive. likewise, the valve train needs to be
revised - double coil springs, revised cams, etc. likewise, the
components that don't get loaded too much at lower rpms get /much/
higher loads just from the speed, namely con rods, cap bolts, the crank,
bearings, etc. and so it goes.

bottom line - you /may/ get lucky and have an engine that can tolerate
some abuse - statistically, fatigue always has a range of failure
probabilities - but that doesn't address the valve spring issues, cam
optimization, etc., so just raising the rev limit on a stock ecu &
expecting big perfomance is just going to be an exercise in
disappointment. within limits, performance is a function of $'s.
there's no point in dropping a bunch of $'s on cams & ecu mods if you
don't do the bottom end and throw a rod a week later.

 

Jim Yanik wrote:
> "Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
> news:x9Sdnc8csICKGVvfRVn-1w@sedona.net:
>
>
>>"jim beam" <nospam@example.net> wrote in message
>>news5SdnWmKkpbaklvfRVn-gQ@speakeasy.net...
>>
>>>Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>
>>>>jim beam <nospam@example.net> wrote in news:yqOdnZ1kMZnv0FjfRVn-
>>>>tA@speakeasy.net:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>jean wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I have a civic si 2001 and I'am looking for an engine software to
>>>>>>communicate with the obd to change parameters
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>jean
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>don't believe you can do it through the port. when you read about
>>>>>people "chipping" their car, it's because they've had to disassemble
>>>>>their ecu to replace/reprogram the [e]prom that stores the operation
>>>>>map. the 2001 may be different, but i doubt it because no sensible
>>>>>manufacturer would allow anyone to so easily create bogus warranty
>>>>>claims resulting from inept remapping.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>from what I've read on Hondata's site,they alter the ECU to accept
>>>>user programming,and provide a port to a PC for it.(VOIDING any
>>>>warranty) IIRC,the OBD sensors can actually be used to monitor
>>>>engine performance and record the data after a run,kind of like an
>>>>on-board dyno setup.
>>>>
>>>>Hondata.com and I have no connection in any form to the company .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>wow, their prices are spectacular. as in, /way/ high.
>>>
>>>and i'm not sure about their mechanical engineering either:
>>>
>>>http://hondata.com/featuresrpm.html
>>>
>>>says honda ecus are mapped to 9k??? revs are usually limited to
>>>absolute max of 7k, 8k for the hot dual cams.
>>>
>>>something does not compute.
>>>
>>
>>That seems odd to me too - do the VTECs hit 9K? But then I don't
>>understand why people go to such lengths to enable their cars to go
>>faster when every experienced driver can remember at least one time
>>when they wished with all their hearts they were going slower. A
>>strange mania indeed.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> That 8K rev limit is from the manufacturer;the tuners may decide to beef up
> the valve trains for even higher RPMs,or they may believe that the motors
> will do that sort of RPMs without mods.
> I note that professional racing motors do turn much higher RPMs to gain
> much of their HP. And look at what motorcycle motors spin up to.
>
no doubt - motorcycles & F1 are great examples of what's possible. but
you can't do that on a stock motor - or at least, not without
substantial problems.

stock motors are balanced within a certain range to keep production
costs down. if you want high revs, you /have/ to balance much more
carefully, and that's expensive. likewise, the valve train needs to be
revised - double coil springs, revised cams, etc. likewise, the
components that don't get loaded too much at lower rpms get /much/
higher loads just from the speed, namely con rods, cap bolts, the crank,
bearings, etc. and so it goes.

bottom line - you /may/ get lucky and have an engine that can tolerate
some abuse - statistically, fatigue always has a range of failure
probabilities - but that doesn't address the valve spring issues, cam
optimization, etc., so just raising the rev limit on a stock ecu &
expecting big perfomance is just going to be an exercise in
disappointment. within limits, performance is a function of $'s.
there's no point in dropping a bunch of $'s on cams & ecu mods if you
don't do the bottom end and throw a rod a week later.