In article <Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink. net>,
"Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote:

> "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> > "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
> Steve Lee
> > > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > ...>
> > > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the
> > > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> > > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician.
> > > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> > > > well.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> > > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> > > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >
> > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> > "wait" for something to happen.
>
> Agreed.
>
> I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask
> about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
> driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the
> problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
> valuable time.
>
> I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
> the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
> this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
> non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily
> pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
>
> Two cents.

That's teh problem. They dont even try to get this far!!!!!!!

No dialog!!

 

In article <t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com>, TL
<tlehman@visi.com> wrote:

> I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
> diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem
> in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions
> that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at
> least where to start / what to check for that condition without having
> to actually experience it themselves.
>
> The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the
> car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some
> obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the
> case here or not, I don't know.
>

Brand new at the time. Three separate dealers and district service
manager who ran out of time to talk to me, and then was promoted before he
could come back.

 

In article <t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com>, TL
<tlehman@visi.com> wrote:

> I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
> diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem
> in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions
> that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at
> least where to start / what to check for that condition without having
> to actually experience it themselves.
>
> The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the
> car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some
> obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the
> case here or not, I don't know.
>

Brand new at the time. Three separate dealers and district service
manager who ran out of time to talk to me, and then was promoted before he
could come back.

 

Boy is this subject line appropriate. I've got two Toyotas with this
problem / response. One I buy the line but the second vehicle (a near
mint 11 year old Corolla) I don't buy it. It has a cold start problem
and their way of diagnosing it is to do trial and error approach at MY
cost. I've already left the car with them 3 days and they claimed the
problem wouldn't replicate itself even tho they said the internals of
the engine needed a bad cleaning so they had to know I was telling the
truth based on this. I call their way of fixing cars "shade tree
mechanics" at best. My wife said why can't they fix the cars if they
have hi tech diagnostics nowadays. I don't know but I have to agree
that it's most annoying to have a car and the shop says basically we
can't fix it at this time.





>On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:20 -0400, hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) wrote:

>In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee
><hate@spam.com> wrote:
>
>...>
>> When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the
>> advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
>> diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician.
>> I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
>> well.
>>
>
>I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
>Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
>District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
>
>I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that is
>very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to
>the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least soon
>does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more
>than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't
>exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.)
>
>In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose
>response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than
>once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I
>have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.)
>When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right,
>they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and
>day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem
>they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking.
>Combination of alignment and bad tires.]
>
>I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new
>business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then
>glad to pay. What a novel idea.
>
>Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and
>not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them
>happy??? And not just dismiss them.
>
>Listening Honda?



** remove .invalid from my email address to reply by email **

 

Boy is this subject line appropriate. I've got two Toyotas with this
problem / response. One I buy the line but the second vehicle (a near
mint 11 year old Corolla) I don't buy it. It has a cold start problem
and their way of diagnosing it is to do trial and error approach at MY
cost. I've already left the car with them 3 days and they claimed the
problem wouldn't replicate itself even tho they said the internals of
the engine needed a bad cleaning so they had to know I was telling the
truth based on this. I call their way of fixing cars "shade tree
mechanics" at best. My wife said why can't they fix the cars if they
have hi tech diagnostics nowadays. I don't know but I have to agree
that it's most annoying to have a car and the shop says basically we
can't fix it at this time.





>On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:20 -0400, hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) wrote:

>In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee
><hate@spam.com> wrote:
>
>...>
>> When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the
>> advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
>> diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician.
>> I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
>> well.
>>
>
>I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
>Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
>District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
>
>I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that is
>very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to
>the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least soon
>does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more
>than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't
>exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.)
>
>In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose
>response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than
>once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I
>have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.)
>When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right,
>they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and
>day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem
>they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking.
>Combination of alignment and bad tires.]
>
>I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new
>business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then
>glad to pay. What a novel idea.
>
>Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and
>not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them
>happy??? And not just dismiss them.
>
>Listening Honda?



** remove .invalid from my email address to reply by email **

 

The response you don't want to hear is "that's normal". My 03 Accord tracks
straight, has no excessive tire noise and the sunroof has no whistle at any
speed. I recently took my 03 Accord in for an intermittent brake problem.
On two occasions after first start up the car didn't want to stop for the
first time. It had hard peddle but wasn't stopping. I brought it to the
dealer and explained this to the service writer. He wrote this down and
took the car. They gave me a loaner to drive while they tried to duplicate
the problem. After a week I got the car back fixed. It seems that there
was a bulletin dealing with this problem on East coast cars. I am very
pleased with the service that I get from my local dealer. My suggestion is
to try another dealer.
"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:nio9kv05nfbsfjb2t8sepm8q864rg7c2k4@4ax.com...
> Yeah, I agree. Or even, yes we can duplicate it, but it's not a
> problem.
>
> I left my 03 Accord with the dealer the other day with three questions
> / complaints. The car has a tendency to drfit to the left (second time
> I've reported this), I think there is an excessive level of tire
> noise, and the sunroof when tilted open from the back makes too much
> whistling noise to be able to use it (even at relatively slow speeds).
>
> Their responses as entered into the service slip ...
>
> Car drifts left when in the left hand lane of a local freeway and
> right when on the right hand lane. Therefore nothing wrong with the
> car. First of all, I don't think a car drifting every which way
> depending on minor changes in the road is the way it is supposed to
> be. These are very minor freeway crowns. None of my other cars did /
> do this. Second, given their comments, seems like the solution is to
> find a level surface to test for the drifting. Lazy response.
>
> Tire noise - not excessive.
>
> Sunroof noise - all sunroofs make noise.
>
> No call asking me for more information. No checking in with me at all.
> Just dismissed.
>
> It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we expect it to be so go away.
> Sounds like the position is if most Accords have a problem, then it's
> normal.
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:20 -0400, hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee
> ><hate@spam.com> wrote:
> >
> >...>
> >> When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the
> >> advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> >> diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician.
> >> I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> >> well.
> >>
> >
> >I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> >Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> >District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >
> >I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that
is
> >very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to
> >the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least
soon
> >does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more
> >than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't
> >exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.)
> >
> >In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose
> >response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than
> >once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I
> >have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.)
> >When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right,
> >they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and
> >day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem
> >they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking.
> >Combination of alignment and bad tires.]
> >
> >I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new
> >business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then
> >glad to pay. What a novel idea.
> >
> >Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and
> >not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them
> >happy??? And not just dismiss them.
> >
> >Listening Honda?
>

 

The response you don't want to hear is "that's normal". My 03 Accord tracks
straight, has no excessive tire noise and the sunroof has no whistle at any
speed. I recently took my 03 Accord in for an intermittent brake problem.
On two occasions after first start up the car didn't want to stop for the
first time. It had hard peddle but wasn't stopping. I brought it to the
dealer and explained this to the service writer. He wrote this down and
took the car. They gave me a loaner to drive while they tried to duplicate
the problem. After a week I got the car back fixed. It seems that there
was a bulletin dealing with this problem on East coast cars. I am very
pleased with the service that I get from my local dealer. My suggestion is
to try another dealer.
"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:nio9kv05nfbsfjb2t8sepm8q864rg7c2k4@4ax.com...
> Yeah, I agree. Or even, yes we can duplicate it, but it's not a
> problem.
>
> I left my 03 Accord with the dealer the other day with three questions
> / complaints. The car has a tendency to drfit to the left (second time
> I've reported this), I think there is an excessive level of tire
> noise, and the sunroof when tilted open from the back makes too much
> whistling noise to be able to use it (even at relatively slow speeds).
>
> Their responses as entered into the service slip ...
>
> Car drifts left when in the left hand lane of a local freeway and
> right when on the right hand lane. Therefore nothing wrong with the
> car. First of all, I don't think a car drifting every which way
> depending on minor changes in the road is the way it is supposed to
> be. These are very minor freeway crowns. None of my other cars did /
> do this. Second, given their comments, seems like the solution is to
> find a level surface to test for the drifting. Lazy response.
>
> Tire noise - not excessive.
>
> Sunroof noise - all sunroofs make noise.
>
> No call asking me for more information. No checking in with me at all.
> Just dismissed.
>
> It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we expect it to be so go away.
> Sounds like the position is if most Accords have a problem, then it's
> normal.
>
>
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:02:20 -0400, hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern)
> wrote:
>
> >In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee
> ><hate@spam.com> wrote:
> >
> >...>
> >> When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the
> >> advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> >> diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician.
> >> I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> >> well.
> >>
> >
> >I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> >Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> >District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >
> >I have a problem with engine noise vibration on my 98 Accord 4 cyl that
is
> >very intermittant, and also very annoying. I can even drive directly to
> >the dealer when it is happening, and it always goes away, or at least
soon
> >does. Thankfully it has actually become less frequesnt. But they (more
> >than one) seldom even ask diagnostic questions. For them it doesn't
> >exist. (BTW acts like hard motor mount.)
> >
> >In contrast, I have a local tire shop (very successful I might add) whose
> >response is, if I say I have a problem, then I have a problem. More than
> >once they have corrected problems that Honda would not even acknowledge I
> >have. (Honda could at least be sympathetic, rather than so dismissive.)
> >When I bought new tires (not OEM!!) I had one which was not quite right,
> >they swapped TWO, and said drive it. Difference in my mond was night and
> >day, and they believed me. So I am a happy customer. [Original problem
> >they corrected (NOT Honda) was really bad straight-line tracking.
> >Combination of alignment and bad tires.]
> >
> >I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a new
> >business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then
> >glad to pay. What a novel idea.
> >
> >Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and
> >not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them
> >happy??? And not just dismiss them.
> >
> >Listening Honda?
>

 

Some service writers are very qualified to diagnose problems. If you can
leave your car for a period of time often the service writer will take your
car to and from work to try and duplicate the problem therefore not having
to pay a technician to do the same.
"Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> > "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
> Steve Lee
> > > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > ...>
> > > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to
the
> > > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> > > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a
technician.
> > > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> > > > well.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> > > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> > > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >
> > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> > "wait" for something to happen.
>
> Agreed.
>
> I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask
> about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
> driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until
the
> problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
> valuable time.
>
> I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
> the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
> this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
> non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then
cheerily
> pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
>
> Two cents.
>
>

 

Some service writers are very qualified to diagnose problems. If you can
leave your car for a period of time often the service writer will take your
car to and from work to try and duplicate the problem therefore not having
to pay a technician to do the same.
"Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earthl ink.net...
> "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> > "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
> Steve Lee
> > > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > ...>
> > > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to
the
> > > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> > > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a
technician.
> > > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> > > > well.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> > > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> > > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >
> > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> > "wait" for something to happen.
>
> Agreed.
>
> I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask
> about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
> driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until
the
> problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
> valuable time.
>
> I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
> the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
> this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
> non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then
cheerily
> pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
>
> Two cents.
>
>

 

"Jerry Belluomini" <gabellu@sandia.gov> wrote in
news:bi57e5$g0j$1@sass2141.sandia.gov:

> The response you don't want to hear is "that's normal". My 03 Accord
> tracks straight, has no excessive tire noise and the sunroof has no
> whistle at any speed.

What's acceptable to YOU,may be excessive to others.Also,you may not have
the same tires as the other guy,or be driving on different pavement.Maybe
your tires are all of equal pressures,too.


--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

 

"Jerry Belluomini" <gabellu@sandia.gov> wrote in
news:bi57e5$g0j$1@sass2141.sandia.gov:

> The response you don't want to hear is "that's normal". My 03 Accord
> tracks straight, has no excessive tire noise and the sunroof has no
> whistle at any speed.

What's acceptable to YOU,may be excessive to others.Also,you may not have
the same tires as the other guy,or be driving on different pavement.Maybe
your tires are all of equal pressures,too.


--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:08:32 +0000 (UTC), Jim Yanik
<jyanik@nullkua.net> wrote:
>
>Well,speaking as a former service person(electronics),the more information
>you can give about the problem,the better the tech can do.And taping a note
>to the item in for service may give the info a better chance of actually
>getting to the person doing the service,as it may not get transferred into
>the computer -as you wrote it-(people always take shortcuts),or the entire
>description may not print out on the service document.

You've touched on one of the challenges in today's service
environment. The tech working on your car does not have the benefit of
your observations and descriptions. I've had experiences where the
mechanic reports checking what the service writer decided was the
problem without actually knowing what the customer complaint / problem
was in the first place. Leaving a note is a great approach and one I
don't always remember to do ... but always should. And the service
writers like it too.

 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 15:08:32 +0000 (UTC), Jim Yanik
<jyanik@nullkua.net> wrote:
>
>Well,speaking as a former service person(electronics),the more information
>you can give about the problem,the better the tech can do.And taping a note
>to the item in for service may give the info a better chance of actually
>getting to the person doing the service,as it may not get transferred into
>the computer -as you wrote it-(people always take shortcuts),or the entire
>description may not print out on the service document.

You've touched on one of the challenges in today's service
environment. The tech working on your car does not have the benefit of
your observations and descriptions. I've had experiences where the
mechanic reports checking what the service writer decided was the
problem without actually knowing what the customer complaint / problem
was in the first place. Leaving a note is a great approach and one I
don't always remember to do ... but always should. And the service
writers like it too.

 

My experiences with the dealer were a little different.. when I was driving
a 90 Chevy Lumina and brought it in for rough idle the dealer was only too
happy to charge three hours worth of diagnosis time, and then they fixed the
wrong thing. It would seem a little bit silly on the surface that the
dealer would not want to charge the customer by the hour to diagnose things,
but I think the real reason is that these people know what the trouble free
repairs are that typically take less time to perform than the hours that are
in the book. In general though I see no reason at all to go to a dealer
with a car that's out of warranty unless it's a very strange problem. The
guy across the street says he was billed $500 to change plugs and wires in
his 40,000 km 2000 Accord V6 which seems ridiculous to me, my '98 CL says
platinum plugs are good to 168,000 km. If it's under warranty, (and my cars
are never that new) then I guess I would put more pressure on the dealer to
fix stuff for free.

"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com...
> I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
> diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem
> in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions
> that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at
> least where to start / what to check for that condition without having
> to actually experience it themselves.
>
> The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the
> car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some
> obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the
> case here or not, I don't know.
>
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
> >Steve Lee
> >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > ...>
> >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to
the
> >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a
technician.
> >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> >> > > well.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >>
> >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> >> "wait" for something to happen.
> >
> >Agreed.
> >
> >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and
ask
> >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
> >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until
the
> >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
> >valuable time.
> >
> >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
> >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
> >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
> >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then
cheerily
> >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
> >
> >Two cents.
> >
>

 

My experiences with the dealer were a little different.. when I was driving
a 90 Chevy Lumina and brought it in for rough idle the dealer was only too
happy to charge three hours worth of diagnosis time, and then they fixed the
wrong thing. It would seem a little bit silly on the surface that the
dealer would not want to charge the customer by the hour to diagnose things,
but I think the real reason is that these people know what the trouble free
repairs are that typically take less time to perform than the hours that are
in the book. In general though I see no reason at all to go to a dealer
with a car that's out of warranty unless it's a very strange problem. The
guy across the street says he was billed $500 to change plugs and wires in
his 40,000 km 2000 Accord V6 which seems ridiculous to me, my '98 CL says
platinum plugs are good to 168,000 km. If it's under warranty, (and my cars
are never that new) then I guess I would put more pressure on the dealer to
fix stuff for free.

"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com...
> I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
> diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem
> in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions
> that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at
> least where to start / what to check for that condition without having
> to actually experience it themselves.
>
> The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the
> car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some
> obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the
> case here or not, I don't know.
>
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
> >Steve Lee
> >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > ...>
> >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to
the
> >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a
technician.
> >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> >> > > well.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >>
> >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> >> "wait" for something to happen.
> >
> >Agreed.
> >
> >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and
ask
> >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
> >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until
the
> >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
> >valuable time.
> >
> >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
> >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
> >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
> >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then
cheerily
> >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
> >
> >Two cents.
> >
>