I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem
in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions
that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at
least where to start / what to check for that condition without having
to actually experience it themselves.

The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the
car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some
obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the
case here or not, I don't know.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
>> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
>Steve Lee
>> > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > ...>
>> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the
>> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
>> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician.
>> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
>> > > well.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
>> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
>> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
>>
>> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
>> "wait" for something to happen.
>
>Agreed.
>
>I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask
>about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
>driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the
>problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
>valuable time.
>
>I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
>the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
>this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
>non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily
>pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
>
>Two cents.
>

 

I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem
in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions
that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at
least where to start / what to check for that condition without having
to actually experience it themselves.

The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the
car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some
obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the
case here or not, I don't know.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
>> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
>Steve Lee
>> > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > ...>
>> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the
>> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
>> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician.
>> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
>> > > well.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
>> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
>> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
>>
>> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
>> "wait" for something to happen.
>
>Agreed.
>
>I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask
>about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
>driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the
>problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
>valuable time.
>
>I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
>the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
>this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
>non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily
>pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
>
>Two cents.
>

 

hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) wrote in message news:<hern-2108031002200001@dial-bu-190-027.wcnet.org>...
********************snip***********
>I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a
new
> business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then
> glad to pay. What a novel idea.
>
> Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and
> not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them
> happy??? And not just dismiss them.
>
> Listening Honda?

Good post. I heard you!

p.s. Honda wouldn't give me a new car when the engine folded at 800
miles, but they fixed it. I was really pissed. I bought a new, used
car. I've been buying Hondas since 1966.

 

hern@wcnet.org (Thomas Hern) wrote in message news:<hern-2108031002200001@dial-bu-190-027.wcnet.org>...
********************snip***********
>I heard on NPR today that companies in Silicon Valey are adopting a
new
> business model: actually sell things, to happy customers, who are then
> glad to pay. What a novel idea.
>
> Honda knows that its sutomers are picky. That is why they buy Hondas and
> not Chevrolets. So why not treat them accordingly, and make them
> happy??? And not just dismiss them.
>
> Listening Honda?

Good post. I heard you!

p.s. Honda wouldn't give me a new car when the engine folded at 800
miles, but they fixed it. I was really pissed. I bought a new, used
car. I've been buying Hondas since 1966.

 

"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com...
> I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
> diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem
> in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions
> that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at
> least where to start / what to check for that condition without having
> to actually experience it themselves.

And check what, though? If the problem isn't happening when the tech is
looking at the car, the componant causing the intermitant fault isn't acting
up.

So he checks it....and....?

> The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the
> car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some
> obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the
> case here or not, I don't know.
>
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
> >Steve Lee
> >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > ...>
> >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to
the
> >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a
technician.
> >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> >> > > well.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >>
> >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> >> "wait" for something to happen.
> >
> >Agreed.
> >
> >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and
ask
> >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
> >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until
the
> >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
> >valuable time.
> >
> >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
> >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
> >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
> >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then
cheerily
> >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
> >
> >Two cents.
> >
>

 

"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:t53akv8jmbnhdd2ueppiho9fdu7eu1m7nc@4ax.com...
> I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
> diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem
> in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions
> that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at
> least where to start / what to check for that condition without having
> to actually experience it themselves.

And check what, though? If the problem isn't happening when the tech is
looking at the car, the componant causing the intermitant fault isn't acting
up.

So he checks it....and....?

> The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the
> car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some
> obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the
> case here or not, I don't know.
>
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
> >Steve Lee
> >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > ...>
> >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to
the
> >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a
technician.
> >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> >> > > well.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >>
> >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> >> "wait" for something to happen.
> >
> >Agreed.
> >
> >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and
ask
> >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
> >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until
the
> >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
> >valuable time.
> >
> >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
> >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
> >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
> >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then
cheerily
> >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
> >
> >Two cents.
> >
>

 

If I come in and complain of hard starting in the morning, you're
suggesting that I have to leave the car overnight? Not so. The tech
doesn't have to experience hard starting to know what to check. Same
is true with most complaints.

And remember, experiencing the problem doesn't necessarily help
anyway. If I report the engine periodically stalls while stopped at a
light, does a tech driving up to a light and having the car stall
really help him figure out the problem.

Lots of people post problems in this newsgroup and lots of people have
suggestions about what could cause that problem. Hopefully the techs
are the shop have even more experience than some of the folks around
this forum.

Sure, in particularly stubborn cases, more is required. I had a Volvo
that simply would not start in the morning when it was below zero.
Everything checked out as fine. Finally the dealer kept the car
overnight on a cold night, and found that when the computer was below
zero, it quit working properly. Warm it up, and it worked just fine.
But those cases are the exception. When I worked on cars many years
ago, I found that 90% of the problems on any given car were repeats of
what I'd seen before. Most I could diagnose without even seeing the
car.


On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:47:49 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
<sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote:

>
>And check what, though? If the problem isn't happening when the tech is
>looking at the car, the componant causing the intermitant fault isn't acting
>up.
>

 

If I come in and complain of hard starting in the morning, you're
suggesting that I have to leave the car overnight? Not so. The tech
doesn't have to experience hard starting to know what to check. Same
is true with most complaints.

And remember, experiencing the problem doesn't necessarily help
anyway. If I report the engine periodically stalls while stopped at a
light, does a tech driving up to a light and having the car stall
really help him figure out the problem.

Lots of people post problems in this newsgroup and lots of people have
suggestions about what could cause that problem. Hopefully the techs
are the shop have even more experience than some of the folks around
this forum.

Sure, in particularly stubborn cases, more is required. I had a Volvo
that simply would not start in the morning when it was below zero.
Everything checked out as fine. Finally the dealer kept the car
overnight on a cold night, and found that when the computer was below
zero, it quit working properly. Warm it up, and it worked just fine.
But those cases are the exception. When I worked on cars many years
ago, I found that 90% of the problems on any given car were repeats of
what I'd seen before. Most I could diagnose without even seeing the
car.


On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:47:49 GMT, "Stephen Bigelow"
<sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote:

>
>And check what, though? If the problem isn't happening when the tech is
>looking at the car, the componant causing the intermitant fault isn't acting
>up.
>

 

"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote
> I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
> diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem
> in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions
> that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at
> least where to start / what to check for that condition without having
> to actually experience it themselves.

Absolutely.

And the shop had best be polite and also give it the old college try if they
want to keep customers. I mean, being rude is stupid: The customer has a
problem with the car, there's a reasonable chance the problem *will*
manifest itself in larger ways soon, and the shop should want the customer
to bring the car back to them when this happens.

> The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the
> car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some
> obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the
> case here or not, I don't know.

Agreed. Also, I think it's pretty much S.O.P at shops for the technician to
ask the service advisor to get the customer to leave the car overnight if
it's a "cold morning start" problem. I've seen this at one dealer shop, with
many customer's cars... If the technician can't nail the problem on the
spot, it makes sense to me.

> On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
> >Steve Lee
> >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > ...>
> >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to
the
> >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a
technician.
> >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> >> > > well.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >>
> >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> >> "wait" for something to happen.
> >
> >Agreed.
> >
> >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and
ask
> >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
> >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until
the
> >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
> >valuable time.
> >
> >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
> >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
> >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
> >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then
cheerily
> >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
> >
> >Two cents.
> >
>

 

"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote
> I agree to a point. That is, obviously they can't fix what they can
> diagnose, and often (but not always) you have to duplicate the problem
> in order to do the diagosis. However, there are lots of conditions
> that an experienced technician should be able to recognize and know at
> least where to start / what to check for that condition without having
> to actually experience it themselves.

Absolutely.

And the shop had best be polite and also give it the old college try if they
want to keep customers. I mean, being rude is stupid: The customer has a
problem with the car, there's a reasonable chance the problem *will*
manifest itself in larger ways soon, and the shop should want the customer
to bring the car back to them when this happens.

> The original poster did not indicate how old the car was, but if the
> car is pretty new, I think the dealer / service departments have some
> obligations to try to solve intermittent problems. Whether that's the
> case here or not, I don't know.

Agreed. Also, I think it's pretty much S.O.P at shops for the technician to
ask the service advisor to get the customer to leave the car overnight if
it's a "cold morning start" problem. I've seen this at one dealer shop, with
many customer's cars... If the technician can't nail the problem on the
spot, it makes sense to me.

> On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:21:55 GMT, "Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
> >Steve Lee
> >> > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > ...>
> >> > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to
the
> >> > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> >> > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a
technician.
> >> > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> >> > > well.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> >> > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> >> > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >>
> >> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> >> "wait" for something to happen.
> >
> >Agreed.
> >
> >I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and
ask
> >about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
> >driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until
the
> >problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
> >valuable time.
> >
> >I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
> >the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
> >this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
> >non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then
cheerily
> >pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
> >
> >Two cents.
> >
>

 

Hi,
Some dealers attach a box to the car so it can gather info.
If problem happens while it is attached, it'll record it.
Like a incident memory box.
Tony

SoCalMike wrote:

> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote in message
> news:hern-2108031002200001@dial-bu-190-027.wcnet.org...
>
>>In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee
>><hate@spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>...>
>>
>>>When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the
>>>advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
>>>diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician.
>>>I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
>>>well.
>>>
>>
>>I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
>>Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
>>District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
>
>
> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> "wait" for something to happen.
>
>

 

Hi,
Some dealers attach a box to the car so it can gather info.
If problem happens while it is attached, it'll record it.
Like a incident memory box.
Tony

SoCalMike wrote:

> "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote in message
> news:hern-2108031002200001@dial-bu-190-027.wcnet.org...
>
>>In article <6248kv0ab1i4q5id453ghptrc31n2mkg4v@4ax.com>, Steve Lee
>><hate@spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>...>
>>
>>>When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the
>>>advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
>>>diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician.
>>>I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
>>>well.
>>>
>>
>>I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
>>Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
>>District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
>
>
> its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> "wait" for something to happen.
>
>

 

TL <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in
news:nio9kv05nfbsfjb2t8sepm8q864rg7c2k4@4ax.com:

> Yeah, I agree. Or even, yes we can duplicate it, but it's not a
> problem.
>
> I left my 03 Accord with the dealer the other day with three questions
> / complaints. The car has a tendency to drfit to the left (second time
> I've reported this), I think there is an excessive level of tire
> noise, and the sunroof when tilted open from the back makes too much
> whistling noise to be able to use it (even at relatively slow speeds).
>
> Their responses as entered into the service slip ...
>
> Car drifts left when in the left hand lane of a local freeway and
> right when on the right hand lane. Therefore nothing wrong with the
> car. First of all, I don't think a car drifting every which way
> depending on minor changes in the road is the way it is supposed to
> be. These are very minor freeway crowns.

Read Car and Driver;they often comment on the 'vagueness' of some model's
on-center steering.Not every type or model of car is going to have the same
handling/steering characteristics.Some models are 'drifty',some are
'tight'.That's why you test-drive different cars and make a decision as to
what things you like about each model and choose according to your tastes.



> None of my other cars did /do this.

Were they 03 Accords,or some other make/model/body style? If not 03
Accords,this is meaningless.



Second, given their comments, seems like the solution is to
> find a level surface to test for the drifting. Lazy response.
>
> Tire noise - not excessive.

Well,this is primarily dependent on tire design and pavement type.Did the
noise CHANGE recently,or was it always like this?
>
> Sunroof noise - all sunroofs make noise.

Once again,was this always like this,or did it CHANGE after some time or
occurrence? Did you try the sunroof when test-driving the car? Was is OK
then?
>
> No call asking me for more information. No checking in with me at all.
> Just dismissed.
>
> It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we expect it to be so go away.
> Sounds like the position is if most Accords have a problem, then it's
> normal.

Have you driven other 03 Accords that did NOT have these 'problems'? If
so,then perhaps it IS a problem(something broke) versus a 'design
characteristic',something inherent in the model.

Also,inquiring in newsgroups if other people have the same 'problems' helps
a lot in determining if there really is a problem(something that can be
repaired) or a design characteristic.

--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

 

TL <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in
news:nio9kv05nfbsfjb2t8sepm8q864rg7c2k4@4ax.com:

> Yeah, I agree. Or even, yes we can duplicate it, but it's not a
> problem.
>
> I left my 03 Accord with the dealer the other day with three questions
> / complaints. The car has a tendency to drfit to the left (second time
> I've reported this), I think there is an excessive level of tire
> noise, and the sunroof when tilted open from the back makes too much
> whistling noise to be able to use it (even at relatively slow speeds).
>
> Their responses as entered into the service slip ...
>
> Car drifts left when in the left hand lane of a local freeway and
> right when on the right hand lane. Therefore nothing wrong with the
> car. First of all, I don't think a car drifting every which way
> depending on minor changes in the road is the way it is supposed to
> be. These are very minor freeway crowns.

Read Car and Driver;they often comment on the 'vagueness' of some model's
on-center steering.Not every type or model of car is going to have the same
handling/steering characteristics.Some models are 'drifty',some are
'tight'.That's why you test-drive different cars and make a decision as to
what things you like about each model and choose according to your tastes.



> None of my other cars did /do this.

Were they 03 Accords,or some other make/model/body style? If not 03
Accords,this is meaningless.



Second, given their comments, seems like the solution is to
> find a level surface to test for the drifting. Lazy response.
>
> Tire noise - not excessive.

Well,this is primarily dependent on tire design and pavement type.Did the
noise CHANGE recently,or was it always like this?
>
> Sunroof noise - all sunroofs make noise.

Once again,was this always like this,or did it CHANGE after some time or
occurrence? Did you try the sunroof when test-driving the car? Was is OK
then?
>
> No call asking me for more information. No checking in with me at all.
> Just dismissed.
>
> It ain't perfect, but it's as good as we expect it to be so go away.
> Sounds like the position is if most Accords have a problem, then it's
> normal.

Have you driven other 03 Accords that did NOT have these 'problems'? If
so,then perhaps it IS a problem(something broke) versus a 'design
characteristic',something inherent in the model.

Also,inquiring in newsgroups if other people have the same 'problems' helps
a lot in determining if there really is a problem(something that can be
repaired) or a design characteristic.

--
Jim Yanik,NRA member
remove null to contact me

 

In article <Tc71b.1922$Ej6.1429@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink. net>,
"Caliban" <caliban27@earthlink.net> wrote:

> "SoCalMike" <mikein562athotmail@hotmail.com> wrote
> > "Thomas Hern" <hern@wcnet.org> wrote
> Steve Lee
> > > <hate@spam.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > ...>
> > > > When I was at the dealer to get my car serviced, I mentioned it to the
> > > > advisor and was given the usual "if we can't duplicate it, we won't
> > > > diagnose it" line, so I passed up on the testdrive with a technician.
> > > > I called up another dealer in town and was given the same line as
> > > > well.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I really hate this response, which is all too common these days.
> > > Irresponsible in my mind. They must teach this in tech school. Had
> > > District Service Manager say the same thing. Is this Honda policy?
> >
> > its policy pretty much everywhere. noone has the time to sit around and
> > "wait" for something to happen.
>
> Agreed.
>
> I don't know what else the shop can do, besides offer a test drive and ask
> about other symptoms, when the problem won't duplicate every time it's
> driven. I suppose if people want the technicians to drive the car until the
> problem repeats, then they had best be willing to pay them for their
> valuable time.
>
> I suggest that car owners who can't get a car to duplicate the problem on
> the spot describe the symptoms and ask the shop to specifically check out
> this, this, and that, based on the owner's rough guess of where the
> non-recurring problem seems to be originating when it occurs. Then cheerily
> pay the diagnostic fee, even if nothing is found wrong...
>
> Two cents.

That's teh problem. They dont even try to get this far!!!!!!!

No dialog!!