Tom Levigne wrote:
> Its funny that no one here has really hit the nail on the head on
> this one yet.

I think the real "nail" here is how old of a car are we talking about? I
haven't seen rust on any car that was less than 10 years old for a long time.
Who actually worries about rust any more other than those that have "vintage"
vehicles?

Keeping cars looking newer longer these days is almost entirely a matter of
avoiding dings and dents and keeping the paint from fading/oxidizing. Rust is
simply not the issue any more. About the only time a newer car is going to rust
is after it has been damaged in a manner that exposes bare metal.

 

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 02:59:50 GMT, "Tom Levigne" <toml37@excite.com>
wrote:

>And by the way, a high pressure car wash in the winter will force that
>corrosive solution deeper into the seams and nooks and crannies and can do
>more harm than good.

I've heard this before, but think it's over-rated. The water is
hitting flat pieces of sheetmetal and bouncing off. Some gets into
panel gaps. I don't see any real "forcing" of water into strange
places any different from where rain-water would drip. Plus, those
"hidden" places aren't what's going to rust first. What's going to
rust first are areas where the paint has been damaged by rocks and
sand.

 

Rick Brandt wrote:

> I think the real "nail" here is how old of a car are we talking about? I
> haven't seen rust on any car that was less than 10 years old for a long time.
> Who actually worries about rust any more other than those that have "vintage"
> vehicles?

I've seen some late 90s Chevy Cavaliers and Malibus with moderate rust
along the edges of the doors and trunk lid.

 

<trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:1133709953.156603.134800@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> "Most use clean water for everything. "
>
> Is this true? I'm pretty sure the local one uses recycled water. And
> unless water was free or really cheap, I would think most would recycle
> at least the wash water?

I work for an environmental company, and have done clean up at a few local
washes cleaning out the traps.

All fresh.

 

"Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:HrmdnUh98LpSig7eRVn-rA@rogers.com...
>
> <trader4@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:1133709953.156603.134800@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> > "Most use clean water for everything. "
> >
> > Is this true? I'm pretty sure the local one uses recycled water. And
> > unless water was free or really cheap, I would think most would recycle
> > at least the wash water?
>
> I work for an environmental company, and have done clean up at a few local
> washes cleaning out the traps.
>
> All fresh.
>

i agree, i've been there as well (in the south)

always been municipal water into a holding tank of some sort, that fed the
pumps, some times with water softners to help soap and wax treatments do
their jobs easier and of course prevent spotting etc.. the water drained to
sewer, all the crud stuck in the PIT, when the PIT was full the crud stayed
and the bays just flooded

definately would not want recylced water shooting on my car.

 

"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:e746p19qknau3je0a1irmn1sjjbtmh3v8v@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 02:59:50 GMT, "Tom Levigne" <toml37@excite.com>
> wrote:
>
> >And by the way, a high pressure car wash in the winter will force that
> >corrosive solution deeper into the seams and nooks and crannies and can
do
> >more harm than good.
>
> I've heard this before, but think it's over-rated. The water is
> hitting flat pieces of sheetmetal and bouncing off. Some gets into
> panel gaps. I don't see any real "forcing" of water into strange
> places any different from where rain-water would drip. Plus, those
> "hidden" places aren't what's going to rust first. What's going to
> rust first are areas where the paint has been damaged by rocks and
> sand.
>
That hasn't been my experience, across 30-some rusty beaters. First to go is
the wrap-around weld on the door and hatch edges (especially on fords),
followed closely by the wheel arches where salt-laden crud and sand gets
jammed against the inside of the steel, after sneaking past the fender
liner. Certain AMCs and Chryslers from a few years ago had a big problem
with the front fenders- there was an actual ledge in there where salt-laden
sand would be packed against the inside of the top of the fender, and stay
there till you cleaned it out by hand. With due respect to Japanese cars,
which I own one of and basically love, I don't see many older ones around
here that aren't totally bananna-spotted with rust. Guess they don't salt
back home in Japan, so the engineers didn't spec coated steel or whatever.
Now that many/most are made here in NA, maybe that has changed.

I'v had some luck, in years I wasn't too lazy, with saturating the door
edges and under the hood with cheap spray wax mixed with hot water. Sorta
like the shipping wax the manufacturers used to use. Gotta do this in the
fall before the weather turns, however, and it is pretty easy to forget in
the rush of real life.

But having said all that- I still get the cars bottom-washed whenever there
is a thaw, if it lasts long enough for the lines to die down. And now that I
have a garage (non-heated, but house leakage probably keeps it barely below
freezing at worst), not scraping the glass in the mornings is worth the
increased rust of the temp cycling to me. Neither of my current heaps is
anywhere near collectible, and I drive the rusty one when the roads are
white. I doubt it makes a significant difference- if sun comes out on a
snowy day, greenhouse effect gets my car hot enough to melt off all the snow
anyway. Very annoying to come out at 1700, and the doors are frozen from
refrozen meltoff. (Also been too lazy to silicone the weatherstrip the last
few years...)


aem sends...

 

"Rick Brandt" <rickbrandt2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lbEkf.26296$7h7.15955@newssvr21.news.prodigy. com...
> Tom Levigne wrote:
> > Its funny that no one here has really hit the nail on the head on
> > this one yet.
>
> I think the real "nail" here is how old of a car are we talking about? I
> haven't seen rust on any car that was less than 10 years old for a long
time.
> Who actually worries about rust any more other than those that have
"vintage"
> vehicles?
>
> Keeping cars looking newer longer these days is almost entirely a matter
of
> avoiding dings and dents and keeping the paint from fading/oxidizing.
Rust is
> simply not the issue any more. About the only time a newer car is going
to rust
> is after it has been damaged in a manner that exposes bare metal.
>
Chuckle. Which side of salt line do YOU live on? Yes, they are a lot better
than they used to be, but I still see a lot of speckles on 3-5 year old
rides around here. See my other post for details.

And no, I don't lose sleep over it- rust never sleeps, and is just a cost of
doing business here in the frozen north. One of many reasons I don't buy
new, so the relative cost of the rust to me is much lower. About once a
year, I give the brown spots a quick'n'dirty with the wire wheel and spray
can, and at most a little Bondo on the wheel arches. It gets bad enough to
make the car unsafe, I just replace the car.

aem sends...

 

ameijers wrote:
> "Rick Brandt" <rickbrandt2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:lbEkf.26296$7h7.15955@newssvr21.news.prodigy. com...
> > Tom Levigne wrote:
> > > Its funny that no one here has really hit the nail on the head on
> > > this one yet.
> >
> > I think the real "nail" here is how old of a car are we talking
> > about? I haven't seen rust on any car that was less than 10 years
> > old for a long time. Who actually worries about rust any more other
> > than those that have "vintage" vehicles?
> >
> > Keeping cars looking newer longer these days is almost entirely a
> > matter of avoiding dings and dents and keeping the paint from
> > fading/oxidizing.
> Rust is
> > simply not the issue any more. About the only time a newer car is
> > going to rust is after it has been damaged in a manner that exposes
> > bare metal.
> >
> Chuckle. Which side of salt line do YOU live on? Yes, they are a lot
> better than they used to be, but I still see a lot of speckles on 3-5
> year old rides around here. See my other post for details.
>
> And no, I don't lose sleep over it- rust never sleeps, and is just a
> cost of doing business here in the frozen north. One of many reasons
> I don't buy new, so the relative cost of the rust to me is much
> lower. About once a year, I give the brown spots a quick'n'dirty with
> the wire wheel and spray can, and at most a little Bondo on the wheel
> arches. It gets bad enough to make the car unsafe, I just replace the
> car.
>
> aem sends...

I live in the midwest (MO) so we do see plenty of snow and salt on the roads
though I'm sure not as much as more northern areas.

Perfect example is my mother-in-law's car which we just inherited. This is a 94
Mecury Topaz that was washed every time nature rained on it, was never garaged
or even under a car-port and a few years ago went through a severe hail storm
that beat the living crap out of it. The car looks (and drives) like hell, but
I would be hard-pressed to find any rust on it.

If I had to worry about rust in only 3 to 5 years I suppose I would opt for a
car with plastic body panels.

 

>> Rust is
>> > simply not the issue any more. About the only time a newer car is
>> > going to rust is after it has been damaged in a manner that exposes
>> > bare metal.

One of my cars is going on 16 years. No visible rust but there are some
spots underneath on the chassis starting to go. I'm debating on whether or
not to replace the original exhaust though as it is starting to rust out.
I'm getting rid of the car in about 5 months. At that time it will have
about no re-sale value to speak of so I'm trying to "use it up" this winter
and then give it away. Engine is as good as new performance wise after
145,000 miles.

My other car is an '01 and has no signs of rust either. I'll probably keep
that one another 10 years or so also.

 

You don't need to be in the salted road areas to have rust. Some of the
worst undercarriage rust occurs where a vehicle is parked on grass or
dirt. Those brake lines go pretty quick. Air moving under a car to dry
it out helps in summer and winter.

 

The answer is definitly yes. Case in point. 1999 Isuzu Trooper, always
garaged. 35,000 miles, four months over warranty, exhaust from cat
back, warranty denied, $1200 for Isuzu parts on line. 51,000 miles,
fuel tank-fuel pump-sending unit, all rusted beyond repair. $1450 to
repair at closest garage.No Isuzu dealers in sight, they dropped the
line. Closest dealer offered to check the leak for $100 but assured me
there would be no warranty as did Isuzu corporate.. I think no more Jap
cars. Three new Maximas, one new Toyota, probably five other new cars
but never a money pit like this.

Ron

 

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:00:16 GMT, "ameijers"
<aemeijers@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>"dizzy" <dizzy@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>news:e746p19qknau3je0a1irmn1sjjbtmh3v8v@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 02:59:50 GMT, "Tom Levigne" <toml37@excite.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >And by the way, a high pressure car wash in the winter will force that
>> >corrosive solution deeper into the seams and nooks and crannies and can
>do
>> >more harm than good.
>>
>> I've heard this before, but think it's over-rated. The water is
>> hitting flat pieces of sheetmetal and bouncing off. Some gets into
>> panel gaps. I don't see any real "forcing" of water into strange
>> places any different from where rain-water would drip. Plus, those
>> "hidden" places aren't what's going to rust first. What's going to
>> rust first are areas where the paint has been damaged by rocks and
>> sand.
>>
>That hasn't been my experience, across 30-some rusty beaters. First to go is
>the wrap-around weld on the door and hatch edges (especially on fords),
>followed closely by the wheel arches where salt-laden crud and sand gets
>jammed against the inside of the steel, after sneaking past the fender
>liner.

Well, your scenario #2 there is what I said.

>(snip)
>With due respect to Japanese cars,
>which I own one of and basically love, I don't see many older ones around
>here that aren't totally bananna-spotted with rust. Guess they don't salt
>back home in Japan, so the engineers didn't spec coated steel or whatever.
>Now that many/most are made here in NA, maybe that has changed.

Doesn't matter where they are made. AFAIK, starting in the early 90's
all the major Japanese makers "got with the program" for corrosion
protection. I know my '92 Prelude did quite well...

 

n877@msn.com wrote:
> The answer is definitly yes. Case in point. 1999 Isuzu Trooper, always
> garaged. 35,000 miles, four months over warranty, exhaust from cat
> back, warranty denied, $1200 for Isuzu parts on line. 51,000 miles,
> fuel tank-fuel pump-sending unit, all rusted beyond repair. $1450 to
> repair at closest garage.No Isuzu dealers in sight, they dropped the
> line. Closest dealer offered to check the leak for $100 but assured me
> there would be no warranty as did Isuzu corporate.. I think no more Jap
> cars. Three new Maximas, one new Toyota, probably five other new cars
> but never a money pit like this.
>
> Ron
>


This is VERY true. It is the heating, sweating and melting in a garge
for engine heat that greatly increases rusting. My wifes 200 cherokee
has never been garge kept and it does not have any rust on it or under
it yet and we live in the salt belt too. I found out by accident about
30 years ago. WHen my parents moved to the country they did not have a
garage for several years (out buildings but no close garage) and they
left their cars out. Prior to moving there by dad's car would start
showing rust after about 2 years from new when being garage kept but
when kept out side it was still pretty much rust free after 5 years and
170K miles and it was not form improved factory protection either.

 

I believe it. I live near there, and they salt like it's going out of style.
Really amazing, and all the vehicles rust out rapidly.

--

Christopher A. Young
Do good work.
It's longer in the short run
but shorter in the long run.
..
..


"Brent Secombe" <bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:031220051132201269%bsecombover@yahoo.co.uk...
In article <wojkf.93920$JQ.82006@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, TP
<to2000ny2000nospam@nospamyahoo.com> wrote:

> Here in the western New York we use salt on are snow covered
> roads.
> True or False. Driving daily and garaging your car. Does a car
> rust quicker if garaged with the salt slush and moisture on it
> (dripping on the floor)? Or is it better to keep the car outside
> the garage in the natural frozen winter elements?
> Of course the driver does routine maintenance on the vehicle.
> Maybe even a few commercial (undercarriage rinse) car washes
> from time to time.
>
> Has there been any studies done?
> Will it matter if the garage floor is epoxy coated or natural
> concrete?
> Insulated and unheated garage and other combos...

The principal governing factor is that the chemical reaction occurs
more quickly at higher temperatures. That argues against garaging and
especially against heated garaging.

Other factors are second-order. If epoxying the floor allows you to
clear out the slush often, that's good; else the difference is
negligible during the winter. However, the salt absorbed into an
untreated cement floor will have a small effect when the car is garaged
wet in the summertime.

Some years ago I read that Rochester (western NY, for our distant
readers) uses 7% of all the road salt in the US. To me that's a
jaw-dropper. I wish I'd saved the newspaper article so I could
attribute it here.

Brent

 

>> Does a car rust quicker, garaged

I don't know but if you look at it long enough I think the process
slows down considerably.