Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Unquestionably Confused wrote:

> Brian Nystrom wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Why not say:
>>>
>>> Dino oil... Change at 3000-5000 miles.
>>> Syn oil... Change at 4000-7000 miles.
>>
>>
>> There's one really good reason, Hyundai recommends changes every 7500
>> miles with "dino" oil. THEY should know what's best for THEIR engines.
>> If people would just use their heads and follow Hyundai's
>> recommendations rather than insisting on adding myth and folklore to
>> the mix, we wouldn't be having this debate.
>
>
> Definitely! The problem is that the motoring public has been
> brainwashed by that 3,000 oil & filter mantra. Too bad also that the
> service personnel at the dealerships are bucking the change as well.
> Within the last 18-24 months I read articles indicating that GM is going
> nuts trying to get their dealers to go along with GM's oil change
> recommendations as indicated by the on-board computerized oil change
> indicators now on most of their better vehicles.

The auto makers lose either way. If they recommend 3,000 mile changes,
they get accused of being in bed with the oil companies and if they
recommend 10,000 mile changes they get accused of wanting you to wear
out your engine too soon so they can sell you another one.


> Speaking of which, I always changed filters with the oil - even when I
> was doing my own changes. Browsing through the manual for my new Accord
> EX V-6 it appears that Honda wants an oil change ONLY at ~10,000 (or as
> indicated by the oil life computer) but no filter. Am I reading that
> correctly?

I don't know as I don't have an Accord. One was enough for me.

Matt

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 14:17:09 -0500, Bob Adkins wrote:


> Why not say:
>
> Dino oil... Change at 3000-5000 miles.
> Syn oil... Change at 4000-7000 miles.

Because it isn't true.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 14:17:09 -0500, Bob Adkins wrote:


> Why not say:
>
> Dino oil... Change at 3000-5000 miles.
> Syn oil... Change at 4000-7000 miles.

Because it isn't true.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 14:17:09 -0500, Bob Adkins wrote:


> Why not say:
>
> Dino oil... Change at 3000-5000 miles.
> Syn oil... Change at 4000-7000 miles.

Because it isn't true.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 20:51:59 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <WKPAg.218$Db4.20494@news1.epix.net>,
> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>
>> > Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
>> > intervals accordingly.
>>
>> I prefer to not pay for things I don't need.
>
> So you have no homeowner's insurance? No car insurance? After all,
> your house will never burn down and you don't ever plan on getting into
> an accident, therefore you don't need those things.

However, if you have a bank loan for that, they require it..so it is
needed.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 20:51:59 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <WKPAg.218$Db4.20494@news1.epix.net>,
> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>
>> > Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
>> > intervals accordingly.
>>
>> I prefer to not pay for things I don't need.
>
> So you have no homeowner's insurance? No car insurance? After all,
> your house will never burn down and you don't ever plan on getting into
> an accident, therefore you don't need those things.

However, if you have a bank loan for that, they require it..so it is
needed.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 20:51:59 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <WKPAg.218$Db4.20494@news1.epix.net>,
> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>
>> > Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
>> > intervals accordingly.
>>
>> I prefer to not pay for things I don't need.
>
> So you have no homeowner's insurance? No car insurance? After all,
> your house will never burn down and you don't ever plan on getting into
> an accident, therefore you don't need those things.

However, if you have a bank loan for that, they require it..so it is
needed.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 07:16:41 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <hCTAg.228$Db4.20512@news1.epix.net>,
> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>
>> Comparing oil changes to insurance is simply stupid. They aren't
>> equivalent at all. You buy insurance to help when crap happens.
>
> In your world, maybe.

And the rest of the world too.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 07:16:41 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <hCTAg.228$Db4.20512@news1.epix.net>,
> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>
>> Comparing oil changes to insurance is simply stupid. They aren't
>> equivalent at all. You buy insurance to help when crap happens.
>
> In your world, maybe.

And the rest of the world too.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 07:16:41 -0400, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <hCTAg.228$Db4.20512@news1.epix.net>,
> Matt Whiting <whiting@epix.net> wrote:
>
>> Comparing oil changes to insurance is simply stupid. They aren't
>> equivalent at all. You buy insurance to help when crap happens.
>
> In your world, maybe.

And the rest of the world too.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 12:29:58 +0000, HLS wrote:

>
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:d8421$44d3f692$471fbb8f$9627@ALLTEL.NET...
> That all by itself does not
>> discredit what you do or what you support - it only says it doesn't offer
>> enough for me. It may also be that if this discussion actually reached a
>> level where some sort of empirical evidence was put forth, it might be
>> obvious that the incremental value of more frequent changes, oil analysis,
>> etc. simply do not offer a statistically significant benefit.
>
> This is the way I feel about oil analyses.
> There is a real shortage of hard data about how well synthetics and refined
> petroleum lubricants actually perform.

There is not shortage of data.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 12:29:58 +0000, HLS wrote:

>
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:d8421$44d3f692$471fbb8f$9627@ALLTEL.NET...
> That all by itself does not
>> discredit what you do or what you support - it only says it doesn't offer
>> enough for me. It may also be that if this discussion actually reached a
>> level where some sort of empirical evidence was put forth, it might be
>> obvious that the incremental value of more frequent changes, oil analysis,
>> etc. simply do not offer a statistically significant benefit.
>
> This is the way I feel about oil analyses.
> There is a real shortage of hard data about how well synthetics and refined
> petroleum lubricants actually perform.

There is not shortage of data.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 12:29:58 +0000, HLS wrote:

>
> "Mike Marlow" <mmarlow@alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:d8421$44d3f692$471fbb8f$9627@ALLTEL.NET...
> That all by itself does not
>> discredit what you do or what you support - it only says it doesn't offer
>> enough for me. It may also be that if this discussion actually reached a
>> level where some sort of empirical evidence was put forth, it might be
>> obvious that the incremental value of more frequent changes, oil analysis,
>> etc. simply do not offer a statistically significant benefit.
>
> This is the way I feel about oil analyses.
> There is a real shortage of hard data about how well synthetics and refined
> petroleum lubricants actually perform.

There is not shortage of data.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Unquestionably Confused wrote:

> Definitely! The problem is that the motoring public has been
> brainwashed by that 3,000 oil & filter mantra. Too bad also that the
> service personnel at the dealerships are bucking the change as well.
> Within the last 18-24 months I read articles indicating that GM is
> going nuts trying to get their dealers to go along with GM's oil
> change recommendations as indicated by the on-board computerized oil
> change indicators now on most of their better vehicles.

Uh...this is not true! Our dealership goes along with GM's extended
oil change intervals. It's not us that is the problem, it's the customers.
They don't like the extended oil change intervals. A lot of the Caddy
owners are older folks who are used to their 3 month/5000 kilometer
service intervals. Cadillac owners get free oil changes, but "only" when
the oil change light comes on. We get a lot of these people just paying
for an oil change because they don't want to wait for the oil change
light to come on.

Personally, I prefer the old 3 month/5000 kilometer interval for my
own cars, but I will say that I've seen nothing in the last 10 years that
indicates that extended oil change intervals do any damage to engines.
Engine oil is so obviously better then it used to be. We almost never
see engine failures that were rampant in the 80's....rod bearing, main
bearing, crank failures...cam failures...etc.

> Speaking of which, I always changed filters with the oil - even when I
> was doing my own changes. Browsing through the manual for my new
> Accord EX V-6 it appears that Honda wants an oil change ONLY at
> ~10,000 (or as indicated by the oil life computer) but no filter. Am
> I reading that correctly?

Hello. Why are you questioning the manufacturer's recommendation?
"THEY" should know best about "THEIR" engine...right? Or are you
just a little bit uncomfortable because "you've" always changed the oil
filter with the oil change? See....even you find it hard to switch over
to a new way of doing things.

I've always driven old 100 dollar beaters. I've often just spun on a new
oil filter instead of changing the oil, as they burn/leak so much oil that
the oil is constantly being replenished. I've never had an engine failure
yet.

Ian

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Unquestionably Confused wrote:

> Definitely! The problem is that the motoring public has been
> brainwashed by that 3,000 oil & filter mantra. Too bad also that the
> service personnel at the dealerships are bucking the change as well.
> Within the last 18-24 months I read articles indicating that GM is
> going nuts trying to get their dealers to go along with GM's oil
> change recommendations as indicated by the on-board computerized oil
> change indicators now on most of their better vehicles.

Uh...this is not true! Our dealership goes along with GM's extended
oil change intervals. It's not us that is the problem, it's the customers.
They don't like the extended oil change intervals. A lot of the Caddy
owners are older folks who are used to their 3 month/5000 kilometer
service intervals. Cadillac owners get free oil changes, but "only" when
the oil change light comes on. We get a lot of these people just paying
for an oil change because they don't want to wait for the oil change
light to come on.

Personally, I prefer the old 3 month/5000 kilometer interval for my
own cars, but I will say that I've seen nothing in the last 10 years that
indicates that extended oil change intervals do any damage to engines.
Engine oil is so obviously better then it used to be. We almost never
see engine failures that were rampant in the 80's....rod bearing, main
bearing, crank failures...cam failures...etc.

> Speaking of which, I always changed filters with the oil - even when I
> was doing my own changes. Browsing through the manual for my new
> Accord EX V-6 it appears that Honda wants an oil change ONLY at
> ~10,000 (or as indicated by the oil life computer) but no filter. Am
> I reading that correctly?

Hello. Why are you questioning the manufacturer's recommendation?
"THEY" should know best about "THEIR" engine...right? Or are you
just a little bit uncomfortable because "you've" always changed the oil
filter with the oil change? See....even you find it hard to switch over
to a new way of doing things.

I've always driven old 100 dollar beaters. I've often just spun on a new
oil filter instead of changing the oil, as they burn/leak so much oil that
the oil is constantly being replenished. I've never had an engine failure
yet.

Ian