Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Bob Adkins wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 16:09:12 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>The big value of doing an occassional oil analysis is to catch
>>mechanical problems when they are small and before more damage is done.
>
>
> On every change, put a drop of oil on a piece of glass and check it under a
> $2 10x eye loupe in strong light. You can easily see metal fines in the oil,
> most of which are normal. You can determine if they're ferrous or
> non-ferrous by passing a magnet underneath the oil drop. If you see larger
> particles than normal, better get it checked out.

Are you really going to overhaul a car engine if you see a little extra
metal? Most folks will just drive it until it quits anyway as the labor
cost is more than the parts in many cars and the consequences of failure
are relatively minor. Airplanes are a different matter completely, but
few people do preventive overhauls on car engines, even with better
information. I'd personally just run a car engine until it showed
serious signs of failure even if I had oil analysis evidence that wear
was unusually high.

Matt

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <gdr6d25l6q81rg35lo413cj8v9ff7pfhfn@4ax.com>,
> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>"Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>>>engine than oil changes.
>>
>>
>>You're right to a point.
>>
>>However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine usually
>>fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from infrequent
>>oil changes.
>
>
> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.

Which parts and how do they fail?

Matt

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <gdr6d25l6q81rg35lo413cj8v9ff7pfhfn@4ax.com>,
> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>"Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>>>engine than oil changes.
>>
>>
>>You're right to a point.
>>
>>However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine usually
>>fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from infrequent
>>oil changes.
>
>
> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.

Which parts and how do they fail?

Matt

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article <gdr6d25l6q81rg35lo413cj8v9ff7pfhfn@4ax.com>,
> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>"Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>>>engine than oil changes.
>>
>>
>>You're right to a point.
>>
>>However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine usually
>>fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from infrequent
>>oil changes.
>
>
> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.

Which parts and how do they fail?

Matt

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

<HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:2THAg.903$%j7.677@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net. ..
>
> "Jim Warman" <mechanic@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
> news:y8CAg.73932$B91.62546@edtnps82...
>> So... I take it nobody has seen that this cross posting bastuhd hasn't
>> replied to his thread????
>
> Makes me wonder what the ulterior motive was behind the original post.

You are obviously not smart enough to figure that out so I will tell you in
very simple language.
It was posted to bring to your attention that there is a service available
to those interested in what is happening to the engine that is in their
chosen mode of transportation.
Is that clear enough for you or do you need a brain transplant from a monkey
to improve you intellectual capacity?

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

<HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:2THAg.903$%j7.677@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net. ..
>
> "Jim Warman" <mechanic@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
> news:y8CAg.73932$B91.62546@edtnps82...
>> So... I take it nobody has seen that this cross posting bastuhd hasn't
>> replied to his thread????
>
> Makes me wonder what the ulterior motive was behind the original post.

You are obviously not smart enough to figure that out so I will tell you in
very simple language.
It was posted to bring to your attention that there is a service available
to those interested in what is happening to the engine that is in their
chosen mode of transportation.
Is that clear enough for you or do you need a brain transplant from a monkey
to improve you intellectual capacity?

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

<HLS@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:2THAg.903$%j7.677@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net. ..
>
> "Jim Warman" <mechanic@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
> news:y8CAg.73932$B91.62546@edtnps82...
>> So... I take it nobody has seen that this cross posting bastuhd hasn't
>> replied to his thread????
>
> Makes me wonder what the ulterior motive was behind the original post.

You are obviously not smart enough to figure that out so I will tell you in
very simple language.
It was posted to bring to your attention that there is a service available
to those interested in what is happening to the engine that is in their
chosen mode of transportation.
Is that clear enough for you or do you need a brain transplant from a monkey
to improve you intellectual capacity?

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>> In article <gdr6d25l6q81rg35lo413cj8v9ff7pfhfn@4ax.com>,
>> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for
>>>> an engine than oil changes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You're right to a point.
>>>
>>> However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine
>>> usually
>>> fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from
>>> infrequent
>>> oil changes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.
>
>
> Which parts and how do they fail?

This should be interesting. I can't wait to see his reply... ;-)

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>> In article <gdr6d25l6q81rg35lo413cj8v9ff7pfhfn@4ax.com>,
>> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for
>>>> an engine than oil changes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You're right to a point.
>>>
>>> However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine
>>> usually
>>> fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from
>>> infrequent
>>> oil changes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.
>
>
> Which parts and how do they fail?

This should be interesting. I can't wait to see his reply... ;-)

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>> In article <gdr6d25l6q81rg35lo413cj8v9ff7pfhfn@4ax.com>,
>> Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for
>>>> an engine than oil changes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You're right to a point.
>>>
>>> However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine
>>> usually
>>> fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from
>>> infrequent
>>> oil changes.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.
>
>
> Which parts and how do they fail?

This should be interesting. I can't wait to see his reply... ;-)

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>> In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
>> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced that
>>> they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended 7500
>>> mile intervals.
>>
>>
>>
>> "must"? No.
>>
>> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>> engine than oil changes.
>
>
> But it is wasted money, no matter how cheap. And with synthetic oil it
> isn't all that cheap.
>
>
>> Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
>> intervals accordingly.
>
>
> I prefer to not pay for things I don't need. I change at 5K miles now
> because it is easy to remember. I change at 10K when the warranty runs
> out.
>
>
>> If you want to keep the car a long, long time, then 3K intervals (or
>> even 5K if you bought the car new and are using good oil) are
>> extremely cheap yet very effective insurance.
>
>
> I keep my cars a long, long time at 5K and 10K intervals. My minivan
> had 178,000 when it was totaled and it was doing fine on 10K changes.
> The reality is that you have absolutely no evidence that more frequent
> changes extend engine life, because no such evidence exists,
> unfortunately. I've looked for years.
>
> We call make decisions that make us comfortable, but none are based on
> data.

Well put, Matt.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>> In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
>> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced that
>>> they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended 7500
>>> mile intervals.
>>
>>
>>
>> "must"? No.
>>
>> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>> engine than oil changes.
>
>
> But it is wasted money, no matter how cheap. And with synthetic oil it
> isn't all that cheap.
>
>
>> Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
>> intervals accordingly.
>
>
> I prefer to not pay for things I don't need. I change at 5K miles now
> because it is easy to remember. I change at 10K when the warranty runs
> out.
>
>
>> If you want to keep the car a long, long time, then 3K intervals (or
>> even 5K if you bought the car new and are using good oil) are
>> extremely cheap yet very effective insurance.
>
>
> I keep my cars a long, long time at 5K and 10K intervals. My minivan
> had 178,000 when it was totaled and it was doing fine on 10K changes.
> The reality is that you have absolutely no evidence that more frequent
> changes extend engine life, because no such evidence exists,
> unfortunately. I've looked for years.
>
> We call make decisions that make us comfortable, but none are based on
> data.

Well put, Matt.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>> In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
>> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced that
>>> they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended 7500
>>> mile intervals.
>>
>>
>>
>> "must"? No.
>>
>> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>> engine than oil changes.
>
>
> But it is wasted money, no matter how cheap. And with synthetic oil it
> isn't all that cheap.
>
>
>> Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
>> intervals accordingly.
>
>
> I prefer to not pay for things I don't need. I change at 5K miles now
> because it is easy to remember. I change at 10K when the warranty runs
> out.
>
>
>> If you want to keep the car a long, long time, then 3K intervals (or
>> even 5K if you bought the car new and are using good oil) are
>> extremely cheap yet very effective insurance.
>
>
> I keep my cars a long, long time at 5K and 10K intervals. My minivan
> had 178,000 when it was totaled and it was doing fine on 10K changes.
> The reality is that you have absolutely no evidence that more frequent
> changes extend engine life, because no such evidence exists,
> unfortunately. I've looked for years.
>
> We call make decisions that make us comfortable, but none are based on
> data.

Well put, Matt.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
>> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced that
>>> they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended 7500
>>> mile intervals.
>>
>>
>> "must"? No.
>>
>> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>> engine than oil changes.
>
> But it is wasted money, no matter how cheap. And with synthetic oil it
> isn't all that cheap.
>
>
>> Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
>> intervals accordingly.
>
> I prefer to not pay for things I don't need. I change at 5K miles now
> because it is easy to remember. I change at 10K when the warranty runs
> out.
>
>
>> If you want to keep the car a long, long time, then 3K intervals (or
>> even 5K if you bought the car new and are using good oil) are
>> extremely cheap yet very effective insurance.
>
> I keep my cars a long, long time at 5K and 10K intervals. My minivan
> had 178,000 when it was totaled and it was doing fine on 10K changes.
> The reality is that you have absolutely no evidence that more frequent
> changes extend engine life, because no such evidence exists,
> unfortunately. I've looked for years.
>
> We call make decisions that make us comfortable, but none are based on
> data.

what is this? a stupidity contest? data abounds all over the place.
and have you ever examined a stripped motor under a microscope? i have.
wear is directly proportional to contaminant content of the lubricant.
seals don't exactly thrive when oil chemistry gets too hostile either.

bottom line: if you're trying to in some way assert that modern lubes
are better than the old stuff of our forefathers, you'd be absolutely
correct. but saying that contamination levels make no difference to
wear rates and therefore engine life is dead wrong.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
>> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced that
>>> they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended 7500
>>> mile intervals.
>>
>>
>> "must"? No.
>>
>> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>> engine than oil changes.
>
> But it is wasted money, no matter how cheap. And with synthetic oil it
> isn't all that cheap.
>
>
>> Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
>> intervals accordingly.
>
> I prefer to not pay for things I don't need. I change at 5K miles now
> because it is easy to remember. I change at 10K when the warranty runs
> out.
>
>
>> If you want to keep the car a long, long time, then 3K intervals (or
>> even 5K if you bought the car new and are using good oil) are
>> extremely cheap yet very effective insurance.
>
> I keep my cars a long, long time at 5K and 10K intervals. My minivan
> had 178,000 when it was totaled and it was doing fine on 10K changes.
> The reality is that you have absolutely no evidence that more frequent
> changes extend engine life, because no such evidence exists,
> unfortunately. I've looked for years.
>
> We call make decisions that make us comfortable, but none are based on
> data.

what is this? a stupidity contest? data abounds all over the place.
and have you ever examined a stripped motor under a microscope? i have.
wear is directly proportional to contaminant content of the lubricant.
seals don't exactly thrive when oil chemistry gets too hostile either.

bottom line: if you're trying to in some way assert that modern lubes
are better than the old stuff of our forefathers, you'd be absolutely
correct. but saying that contamination levels make no difference to
wear rates and therefore engine life is dead wrong.