Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 16:09:12 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote:


>The big value of doing an occassional oil analysis is to catch
>mechanical problems when they are small and before more damage is done.

On every change, put a drop of oil on a piece of glass and check it under a
$2 10x eye loupe in strong light. You can easily see metal fines in the oil,
most of which are normal. You can determine if they're ferrous or
non-ferrous by passing a magnet underneath the oil drop. If you see larger
particles than normal, better get it checked out.

I'm guessing that antifreeze can be detected in oil with a $5 dollar black
light in a darkened room.
--
Bob

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:27:55 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:


>No, I dont regard ignorance and stubbornness as virtues. There are a
>lot of people who are impressed by apparently highly technical data
>and specifications, and who really dont know what, if anything, it means.

You would be surprised how easy it is to learn what the data means.

That said, it isn't worth it. It's cheaper just to change the oil.
--
Bob

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:27:55 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:


>No, I dont regard ignorance and stubbornness as virtues. There are a
>lot of people who are impressed by apparently highly technical data
>and specifications, and who really dont know what, if anything, it means.

You would be surprised how easy it is to learn what the data means.

That said, it isn't worth it. It's cheaper just to change the oil.
--
Bob

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 13:27:55 GMT, <HLS@nospam.nix> wrote:


>No, I dont regard ignorance and stubbornness as virtues. There are a
>lot of people who are impressed by apparently highly technical data
>and specifications, and who really dont know what, if anything, it means.

You would be surprised how easy it is to learn what the data means.

That said, it isn't worth it. It's cheaper just to change the oil.
--
Bob

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 09:27:07 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced
>> that they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended
>> 7500 mile intervals.
>
>"must"? No.
>
>"Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>engine than oil changes.


You're right to a point.

However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine usually
fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from infrequent
oil changes. By the time you start to see oil-related wear, a car is usually
very old, and has over 150K miles on it.

Rather than worrying about 3000 mile or 5000 mile oil changes, I worry about
things that happen suddenly, such as cooling system failure, cracked block
or heads, broken timing chain or belt, punctured oil pan, broken valves,
etc.
--
Bob

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 09:27:07 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced
>> that they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended
>> 7500 mile intervals.
>
>"must"? No.
>
>"Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>engine than oil changes.


You're right to a point.

However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine usually
fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from infrequent
oil changes. By the time you start to see oil-related wear, a car is usually
very old, and has over 150K miles on it.

Rather than worrying about 3000 mile or 5000 mile oil changes, I worry about
things that happen suddenly, such as cooling system failure, cracked block
or heads, broken timing chain or belt, punctured oil pan, broken valves,
etc.
--
Bob

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 09:27:07 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced
>> that they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended
>> 7500 mile intervals.
>
>"must"? No.
>
>"Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
>engine than oil changes.


You're right to a point.

However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine usually
fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from infrequent
oil changes. By the time you start to see oil-related wear, a car is usually
very old, and has over 150K miles on it.

Rather than worrying about 3000 mile or 5000 mile oil changes, I worry about
things that happen suddenly, such as cooling system failure, cracked block
or heads, broken timing chain or belt, punctured oil pan, broken valves,
etc.
--
Bob

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

In article <gdr6d25l6q81rg35lo413cj8v9ff7pfhfn@4ax.com>,
Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:

> >"Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
> >engine than oil changes.
>
>
> You're right to a point.
>
> However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine usually
> fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from infrequent
> oil changes.

Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.

Yes, parts can also fail independent of that. That's why all insurance
is a gamble....but I reduce my gamble by buying a Honda, Acura, Toyota,
or Lexus.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

In article <gdr6d25l6q81rg35lo413cj8v9ff7pfhfn@4ax.com>,
Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:

> >"Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
> >engine than oil changes.
>
>
> You're right to a point.
>
> However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine usually
> fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from infrequent
> oil changes.

Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.

Yes, parts can also fail independent of that. That's why all insurance
is a gamble....but I reduce my gamble by buying a Honda, Acura, Toyota,
or Lexus.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

In article <gdr6d25l6q81rg35lo413cj8v9ff7pfhfn@4ax.com>,
Bob Adkins <bobad@charter.net> wrote:

> >"Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
> >engine than oil changes.
>
>
> You're right to a point.
>
> However, engine failures are seldom directly oil-related. An engine usually
> fails from part failure or abuse long before they wear out from infrequent
> oil changes.

Well, but parts can easily fail due to infrequent oil changes.

Yes, parts can also fail independent of that. That's why all insurance
is a gamble....but I reduce my gamble by buying a Honda, Acura, Toyota,
or Lexus.

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced
>>that they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended
>>7500 mile intervals.
>
>
> "must"? No.
>
> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
> engine than oil changes.

But it is wasted money, no matter how cheap. And with synthetic oil it
isn't all that cheap.


> Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
> intervals accordingly.

I prefer to not pay for things I don't need. I change at 5K miles now
because it is easy to remember. I change at 10K when the warranty runs out.


> If you want to keep the car a long, long time, then 3K intervals (or
> even 5K if you bought the car new and are using good oil) are extremely
> cheap yet very effective insurance.

I keep my cars a long, long time at 5K and 10K intervals. My minivan
had 178,000 when it was totaled and it was doing fine on 10K changes.
The reality is that you have absolutely no evidence that more frequent
changes extend engine life, because no such evidence exists,
unfortunately. I've looked for years.

We call make decisions that make us comfortable, but none are based on data.


Matt

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced
>>that they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended
>>7500 mile intervals.
>
>
> "must"? No.
>
> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
> engine than oil changes.

But it is wasted money, no matter how cheap. And with synthetic oil it
isn't all that cheap.


> Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
> intervals accordingly.

I prefer to not pay for things I don't need. I change at 5K miles now
because it is easy to remember. I change at 10K when the warranty runs out.


> If you want to keep the car a long, long time, then 3K intervals (or
> even 5K if you bought the car new and are using good oil) are extremely
> cheap yet very effective insurance.

I keep my cars a long, long time at 5K and 10K intervals. My minivan
had 178,000 when it was totaled and it was doing fine on 10K changes.
The reality is that you have absolutely no evidence that more frequent
changes extend engine life, because no such evidence exists,
unfortunately. I've looked for years.

We call make decisions that make us comfortable, but none are based on data.


Matt

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <J3HAg.15775$Ju.2709@trndny09>,
> Brian Nystrom <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I was referring more to the people who are absolutely convinced
>>that they must change their oil more frequently than the recommended
>>7500 mile intervals.
>
>
> "must"? No.
>
> "Cheap insurance"? ABSOLUTELY. There is no cheaper insurance for an
> engine than oil changes.

But it is wasted money, no matter how cheap. And with synthetic oil it
isn't all that cheap.


> Figure out how much you want to pay for that insurance, and set your
> intervals accordingly.

I prefer to not pay for things I don't need. I change at 5K miles now
because it is easy to remember. I change at 10K when the warranty runs out.


> If you want to keep the car a long, long time, then 3K intervals (or
> even 5K if you bought the car new and are using good oil) are extremely
> cheap yet very effective insurance.

I keep my cars a long, long time at 5K and 10K intervals. My minivan
had 178,000 when it was totaled and it was doing fine on 10K changes.
The reality is that you have absolutely no evidence that more frequent
changes extend engine life, because no such evidence exists,
unfortunately. I've looked for years.

We call make decisions that make us comfortable, but none are based on data.


Matt

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Bob Adkins wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 16:09:12 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>The big value of doing an occassional oil analysis is to catch
>>mechanical problems when they are small and before more damage is done.
>
>
> On every change, put a drop of oil on a piece of glass and check it under a
> $2 10x eye loupe in strong light. You can easily see metal fines in the oil,
> most of which are normal. You can determine if they're ferrous or
> non-ferrous by passing a magnet underneath the oil drop. If you see larger
> particles than normal, better get it checked out.

Are you really going to overhaul a car engine if you see a little extra
metal? Most folks will just drive it until it quits anyway as the labor
cost is more than the parts in many cars and the consequences of failure
are relatively minor. Airplanes are a different matter completely, but
few people do preventive overhauls on car engines, even with better
information. I'd personally just run a car engine until it showed
serious signs of failure even if I had oil analysis evidence that wear
was unusually high.

Matt

Re: Determining oil change intervals via analysis
 

Bob Adkins wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 16:09:12 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>The big value of doing an occassional oil analysis is to catch
>>mechanical problems when they are small and before more damage is done.
>
>
> On every change, put a drop of oil on a piece of glass and check it under a
> $2 10x eye loupe in strong light. You can easily see metal fines in the oil,
> most of which are normal. You can determine if they're ferrous or
> non-ferrous by passing a magnet underneath the oil drop. If you see larger
> particles than normal, better get it checked out.

Are you really going to overhaul a car engine if you see a little extra
metal? Most folks will just drive it until it quits anyway as the labor
cost is more than the parts in many cars and the consequences of failure
are relatively minor. Airplanes are a different matter completely, but
few people do preventive overhauls on car engines, even with better
information. I'd personally just run a car engine until it showed
serious signs of failure even if I had oil analysis evidence that wear
was unusually high.

Matt