jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:jason-3007051017330001@pm4-broad-
55.snlo.dialup.fix.net:

>
> The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
> article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
> cover is September 2005.
>
> Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
> really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
> article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
> those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
> will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
> to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>
> If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
> the article.
>
> Jason
>

Lead-acid and other types of batteries (NiCd and NiMH,Li-ion)are already
recycled,why should hybrid auto batteries escape that?

IMO,there would be valuable materials that could be recovered,in the
amounts that will be discarded.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:jason-3007051017330001@pm4-broad-
55.snlo.dialup.fix.net:

>
> The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
> article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
> cover is September 2005.
>
> Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
> really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
> article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
> those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
> will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
> to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>
> If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
> the article.
>
> Jason
>

Lead-acid and other types of batteries (NiCd and NiMH,Li-ion)are already
recycled,why should hybrid auto batteries escape that?

IMO,there would be valuable materials that could be recovered,in the
amounts that will be discarded.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:jason-3007051241430001@pm4-broad-46.snlo.dialup.fix.net:

> In article <CpPGe.3405$DJ5.202@trnddc07>, "Doug McCrary"
><DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> JeB <no@spam.org> wrote in message
>> news:veene1dfn37o3oahd24biapf0eqq8qgs8c@4ax.com...
>> > On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:17:32 -0700, jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an
>> > >interesting article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26.
>> > >The date on the cover is September 2005.
>> > >
>> > >Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because
>> > >they really care about the environment. I learned about something
>> > >from the article that I had never thought about before. What's
>> > >going to happen to those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles
>> > >after they wear out? They will be placed in landfills. Imagine the
>> > >harm that those batteries may do to the enviroment after they are
>> > >laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I don't know the specifics but it seems that recycling of such
>> > things is quite common these days.
>> >
>> >
>> See http://www.batterycouncil.org/news-edf_response.html
>>
>> Which reads, in part:
>> 5. It's hard to argue with a 97.1 percent recycling rate for battery
>> lead, and no other battery chemistry can come near that number.
>>
>> Car batteries are not disposed of. Their materials - mostly lead --
>> are
> recycled
>> indefinitely. The battery industry has been continuously recycling
>> and reusing lead from old car batteries for more than 50 years. There
>> is virtually no recycling process for other chemistries, and it's
>> hard to even imagine
> the cost
>> of developing a recycling process and infrastructure comparable to
>> what we already have with lead-acid batteries.
>
> Hello,
> You may be right. I have not done any research on this subject. Brock
> Yates--the author of the article--stated the following in his article:
> "[Batteries] are hardly biodegradable items like spoiled vegetables.
> They are in fact self-contained toxic waste dumps. How and where
> millions of these poisonous boxes will be deposited ... has yet to be
> considered, much less resolved."
> Jason
>

Well,it IS an additional expense that must be factored in.(recycling costs)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:jason-3007051241430001@pm4-broad-46.snlo.dialup.fix.net:

> In article <CpPGe.3405$DJ5.202@trnddc07>, "Doug McCrary"
><DougMcCrary@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>> JeB <no@spam.org> wrote in message
>> news:veene1dfn37o3oahd24biapf0eqq8qgs8c@4ax.com...
>> > On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:17:32 -0700, jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an
>> > >interesting article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26.
>> > >The date on the cover is September 2005.
>> > >
>> > >Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because
>> > >they really care about the environment. I learned about something
>> > >from the article that I had never thought about before. What's
>> > >going to happen to those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles
>> > >after they wear out? They will be placed in landfills. Imagine the
>> > >harm that those batteries may do to the enviroment after they are
>> > >laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>> > >
>> >
>> > I don't know the specifics but it seems that recycling of such
>> > things is quite common these days.
>> >
>> >
>> See http://www.batterycouncil.org/news-edf_response.html
>>
>> Which reads, in part:
>> 5. It's hard to argue with a 97.1 percent recycling rate for battery
>> lead, and no other battery chemistry can come near that number.
>>
>> Car batteries are not disposed of. Their materials - mostly lead --
>> are
> recycled
>> indefinitely. The battery industry has been continuously recycling
>> and reusing lead from old car batteries for more than 50 years. There
>> is virtually no recycling process for other chemistries, and it's
>> hard to even imagine
> the cost
>> of developing a recycling process and infrastructure comparable to
>> what we already have with lead-acid batteries.
>
> Hello,
> You may be right. I have not done any research on this subject. Brock
> Yates--the author of the article--stated the following in his article:
> "[Batteries] are hardly biodegradable items like spoiled vegetables.
> They are in fact self-contained toxic waste dumps. How and where
> millions of these poisonous boxes will be deposited ... has yet to be
> considered, much less resolved."
> Jason
>

Well,it IS an additional expense that must be factored in.(recycling costs)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

"Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in
news:gvqdnUTaMpe6nHHfRVn-hQ@rogers.com:

>
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-E6BE88.18342330072005@nntp1.usenetserver.com...
>> In article <kknne1t1eropvvu7f34ufmjs6lgtq80uct@4ax.com>,
>> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is what Toyota has to say about battery replacement
>>> and recycling:
>>
>> Spun like a member of the Clinton family.
>>
>> If you believe Toyota's PR spin 100%, you're in for a big surprise.
>
> ....and?
> That's it?
>
> Please enlighten us with your wisdom on the subject.
>
>
>

NiMH and NiCd can only be recharged a number of times before their capacity
drops off,and L-A batteries suffer from sulfation,electrolyte loss,and
vibration/shock damage(material falls out of the lead grids,shorts the
cell). Hot environments like the Southwest and Florida will shorten battery
life further.
I don't know of any rechargeable battery chemistry that can be recharged
100,000 times.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

"Steve Bigelow" <stevebigelowXXX@rogers.com> wrote in
news:gvqdnUTaMpe6nHHfRVn-hQ@rogers.com:

>
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-E6BE88.18342330072005@nntp1.usenetserver.com...
>> In article <kknne1t1eropvvu7f34ufmjs6lgtq80uct@4ax.com>,
>> Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
>>
>>> Here is what Toyota has to say about battery replacement
>>> and recycling:
>>
>> Spun like a member of the Clinton family.
>>
>> If you believe Toyota's PR spin 100%, you're in for a big surprise.
>
> ....and?
> That's it?
>
> Please enlighten us with your wisdom on the subject.
>
>
>

NiMH and NiCd can only be recharged a number of times before their capacity
drops off,and L-A batteries suffer from sulfation,electrolyte loss,and
vibration/shock damage(material falls out of the lead grids,shorts the
cell). Hot environments like the Southwest and Florida will shorten battery
life further.
I don't know of any rechargeable battery chemistry that can be recharged
100,000 times.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 

>>Car batteries are not disposed of. Their materials - mostly lead -- are
recycled indefinitely. The battery industry has been continuously recycling
and reusing lead from old car batteries for more than 50 years.<<

Only problem is: The high-voltage hybrid batteries are not lead-acid, but
nickel-metal-hydride (NiMH).

>>Brock Yates--the author of the article--stated the following in his
article: "[Batteries] are hardly biodegradable items like spoiled
vegetables. They are in fact self-contained toxic waste dumps. How and where
millions of these poisonous boxes will be deposited ... has yet to be
considered, much less resolved."<<

For Brock Yates, a reactionary conservative, to even mention recycling is
amazing all by itself...but that sounds to me as if he's making an
assumption. I'd like to hear what Honda and the other makers of hybrids
have to say about it.

 

>>Car batteries are not disposed of. Their materials - mostly lead -- are
recycled indefinitely. The battery industry has been continuously recycling
and reusing lead from old car batteries for more than 50 years.<<

Only problem is: The high-voltage hybrid batteries are not lead-acid, but
nickel-metal-hydride (NiMH).

>>Brock Yates--the author of the article--stated the following in his
article: "[Batteries] are hardly biodegradable items like spoiled
vegetables. They are in fact self-contained toxic waste dumps. How and where
millions of these poisonous boxes will be deposited ... has yet to be
considered, much less resolved."<<

For Brock Yates, a reactionary conservative, to even mention recycling is
amazing all by itself...but that sounds to me as if he's making an
assumption. I'd like to hear what Honda and the other makers of hybrids
have to say about it.

 

>>All I'm saying is, Toyota is spinning their side of the story very
hard...In other words, never listen to a car salesman. And that's all that
PR piece is.<<

Right. However, according to you we should believe any yahoo who posts
under an assumed name in a newsgroup, without any proof whatsoever.

Thanks. I needed a good laugh today.

 

>>All I'm saying is, Toyota is spinning their side of the story very
hard...In other words, never listen to a car salesman. And that's all that
PR piece is.<<

Right. However, according to you we should believe any yahoo who posts
under an assumed name in a newsgroup, without any proof whatsoever.

Thanks. I needed a good laugh today.

 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96A3D40B3EA56jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
> jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:jason-3007051017330001@pm4-broad-
> 55.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
>
> >
> > The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
> > article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
> > cover is September 2005.
> >
> > Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
> > really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
> > article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
> > those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
> > will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
> > to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
> >
> > If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
> > the article.
> >
> > Jason
> >
>
> Lead-acid and other types of batteries (NiCd and NiMH,Li-ion)are already
> recycled,why should hybrid auto batteries escape that?
>
Apparently, not. http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/WPIE/Batteries/
.... After February 8, 2006, all batteries in California must be recycled, or
taken to a household hazardous waste disposal facility, a universal waste
handler (e.g., storage facility or broker), or an authorized recycling facility.
....
It looks like that's partly due to federal regs, but I'm too lazy to look.

> IMO,there would be valuable materials that could be recovered,in the
> amounts that will be discarded.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net

 

Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov.> wrote in message
news:Xns96A3D40B3EA56jyanikkuanet@129.250.170.83.. .
> jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:jason-3007051017330001@pm4-broad-
> 55.snlo.dialup.fix.net:
>
> >
> > The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
> > article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
> > cover is September 2005.
> >
> > Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
> > really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
> > article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
> > those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
> > will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
> > to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
> >
> > If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
> > the article.
> >
> > Jason
> >
>
> Lead-acid and other types of batteries (NiCd and NiMH,Li-ion)are already
> recycled,why should hybrid auto batteries escape that?
>
Apparently, not. http://www.ciwmb.ca.gov/WPIE/Batteries/
.... After February 8, 2006, all batteries in California must be recycled, or
taken to a household hazardous waste disposal facility, a universal waste
handler (e.g., storage facility or broker), or an authorized recycling facility.
....
It looks like that's partly due to federal regs, but I'm too lazy to look.

> IMO,there would be valuable materials that could be recovered,in the
> amounts that will be discarded.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net

 

There is a new thing called "recycling"

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-3007051017330001@pm4-broad-55.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
>
> The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
> article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
> cover is September 2005.
>
> Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
> really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
> article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
> those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
> will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
> to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>
> If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
> the article.
>
> Jason
>
> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>

 

There is a new thing called "recycling"

"Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jason-3007051017330001@pm4-broad-55.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
>
> The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
> article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
> cover is September 2005.
>
> Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
> really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
> article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
> those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
> will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
> to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>
> If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
> the article.
>
> Jason
>
> --
> NEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO
> We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice.
> We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people.
>
>
>

 

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:17:32 -0700, jason@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

>
>The current edition of "Car and Driver" (magazine) has an interesting
>article about the dark side of the hybrids on page 26. The date on the
>cover is September 2005.
>
>Many of the so called "greenies" have purchased hybrids because they
>really care about the environment. I learned about something from the
>article that I had never thought about before. What's going to happen to
>those millions of batteries in hybrid vehicles after they wear out? They
>will be placed in landfills. Imagine the harm that those batteries may do
>to the enviroment after they are laying in a landfill for 50 years.
>
>If you own or are planning to buy a hybrid vehicle, I advise you to read
>the article.
>
>Jason
Pfft, missing the point. The point is that they're ONLY getting
40-45mpg. Many non-hybrids on sale in the EU will easily beat that.
For isntance, n the UK, a VW lupo returned to one of the most
outspoken motoring journalists int he world, an AVERAGE of 65mpg
Hybrids are a Pr stunt only.