Justbob30 <NoThank@you.com> wrote:

: Before you say you cant afford a hybrid, lets take a look at the web site,
: base Prius $21,100, base Corolla auto (apples to apples) $17,110, difference
: $2,715,

ONE, the difference between your own numbers is $4000.

TWO, I am not sure if "apples to apples" is as fair a comparison as you
make it sound. Corolla is available in cheaper versions, Prius is not.
A manual CE would not only cost less but also have better mpg.

 

Newbie wrote:

> Justbob30 <NoThank@you.com> wrote:
>
> : Before you say you cant afford a hybrid, lets take a look at the web site,
> : base Prius $21,100, base Corolla auto (apples to apples) $17,110, difference
> : $2,715,
>
> ONE, the difference between your own numbers is $4000.
>
> TWO, I am not sure if "apples to apples" is as fair a comparison as you
> make it sound. Corolla is available in cheaper versions, Prius is not.
> A manual CE would not only cost less but also have better mpg.
Hmmm,
Cost of battery pack when it needs replacing?

 

"RPS" <rps@null.void> wrote in message
news:120520081216367764%rps@null.void...
> Our old Camry is showing its age (~12 years) and we have decided to
> look for a new car but budget down to "Corolla level". I said "level"
> as I am open to competing models from Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, etc.
>
> I would appreciate your help in choosing the model, as well as the
> "sub-model" (CE, LE, DX etc.).
>
> Most of our driving is city or regional: round trips to places 10-50
> miles away. A few times a year we drive 300-500 miles trips.
>
> I would like basic safety features (line anti-lock brakes) and comforts
> (4-door, AC). Very high priority running cost (mpg, reliability). I can
> live with manual or automatic. I would consider new, or low-mileage
> dealer demos etc, but not "really used". (Like everyone else, I thought
> about Prius but it looks too expensive.)
>
> A few questions:
>
> 1. Which make/model would be the best fit?
>
> 2. What is the best site for reading up on these and well as comparison
> reviews? (Bought my last car 12 years ago and online resources must
> have come along since then.)
>
> 3. Would you go to a local dealer or Carmax, Carsdirect etc?
>
> 4. At this point would you buy a 2009, or 2008?
>
> 5. When is the best time of the year to get good deals on last years
> models, dealer demos, loaners and like? (These I'd imagine are only
> available from dealers.)
>
> Thanks for all help.

Most automakers are making pretty reliable and durable cars these days.

1) Regarding fuel economy, the EPA numbers for 2008 and later model years
should more closely reflect real-world numbers so you can compare. I do not
know if this is still the case, but in the past, Hyundais have had poorer
fuel economy than a comparable Toyota, Honda, or Nissan and tend to be a
little noisier. A friend traded in a Honda minivan for a Hyundai minivan,
and while the Hyundai has good performance and comfort, it is noisier on the
highway and gets noticeably poorer fuel economy.

I recommend that you test drive each candidate to see if they are
comfortable for you, if you like how they drive, road noise, convenience,
etc.

Also price all of the vehicles with the equipment that you want. Hyundais
tend to have more content than comparable Japanese vehicles.

2) Edmunds.com seems to have pretty good car reviews.

3) I would purchase the vehicle from the dealer that sells the vehicle new
because dealers that do not have that particular brand's franchise do not
have access to the factory training and equipment that the new car dealer
has.

4) You will probably get a better deal on a 2008 than a 2009, and if you are
going to keep the vehicle for 12 years, depreciation won't make that much of
a difference.

5) Factory and dealer demos (vehicles that have never been titled) are
generally available only through franchised dealers. A "used" vehicle is
one that has been licensed and titled, and are available pretty much
anywhere, although the vehicles in the best condition are most likely to be
at the franchised dealer.

The best time to buy a vehicle is generally at the end of the model year,
especially if there is a major model change like a new body style. Since
new models are introduced throughout the year, the end of the model year
will vary depending on when the vehicle was released. The 2009 Corolla is
new, so you will probably get a better deal on a 2008.

Besides the time of year, there is a best time of the month, generally the
1st or second working day of the month, when automakers have their month-end
close. If there are factory incentives on the vehicle, they will tend to be
better at the end of the incentive period because incentives are generally
stepped up towards the end of the period.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

 

In article <120520081216367764%rps@null.void>, RPS <rps@null.void>
wrote:

> Our old Camry is showing its age (~12 years) and we have decided to
> look for a new car but budget down to "Corolla level". I said "level"
> as I am open to competing models from Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, etc.
>
> I would appreciate your help in choosing the model, as well as the
> "sub-model" (CE, LE, DX etc.).
>
> Most of our driving is city or regional: round trips to places 10-50
> miles away. A few times a year we drive 300-500 miles trips.
>
> I would like basic safety features (line anti-lock brakes) and comforts
> (4-door, AC). Very high priority running cost (mpg, reliability). I can
> live with manual or automatic. I would consider new, or low-mileage
> dealer demos etc, but not "really used". (Like everyone else, I thought
> about Prius but it looks too expensive.)
>
> A few questions:
>
> 1. Which make/model would be the best fit?
>
> 2. What is the best site for reading up on these and well as comparison
> reviews? (Bought my last car 12 years ago and online resources must
> have come along since then.)
>
> 3. Would you go to a local dealer or Carmax, Carsdirect etc?
>
> 4. At this point would you buy a 2009, or 2008?
>
> 5. When is the best time of the year to get good deals on last years
> models, dealer demos, loaners and like? (These I'd imagine are only
> available from dealers.)
>
> Thanks for all help.
The Corolla is a very well put together car.
Here many are used as cabs, even to the airport.
I've been told by the cabbies they go about 200k miles before major
repair, the Camry goes about 150k miles for the same.

Unfortunately for me it needs a telescoping steering wheel as I sit far
back. The car is designed for drivers much shorter than my 5'-11".

Also unfortunately there are just too many of them here, mostly beige,
one would have trouble finding one's Corolla in the parking lots.

The best deals here are on off lease cars.

 

In article <120520081307140096%rps@null.void>, RPS <rps@null.void>
wrote:

> If I drive 12000 miles per year, Corolla (30 mpg) would need 400
> gallons of fuel. Prius (40mpg) about 300 gallons. Difference is 100
> gallons, let's say $500.

The cabbies here tell me they get:
-9 l/100 (26 mpUSg) with the Corolla and
-6 l/100 (39 mpUSg) with the Prius.
This is all urban driving.

 

In article <elmop-E3E563.16050812052008@nntp9.usenetserver.com>,
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

> Don't forget the size. The Prius is larger than the Corolla; if you
> think you'd want something larger that also gets good gas mileage,
> that's the Prius. If you think you're stuck with a Corolla-sized car,
> you're not. Not necessarily.

IMO they've similar in interior space.
A few months ago we drove to the airport in a Corolla and returned in a
Prius. The Prius did have the advantage of being able to pile our
luggage up to the back window, so you couldn't see out the window even
the tiny bit that is normal.

I would never pile the luggage that high for safety reasons and would
wrap a cargo net around the Prius luggage to avoid it coming forward in
a quick stop.

I have read that the Prius mileage in cold winter weather is similar to
the Corolla's.

 

In article <332Wj.3318$J16.3219@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net> ,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> J.D. Power Long Term Dependability (3 year)
> --------------
> Only Toyota and Honda rank above the industry average
>
> Longevity (11-20 years) (of companies making small, non-luxury cars)
> ---------
> Saturn
> Toyota
> Honda
> Mazda
>
> Depreciation
> ------------
> Honda Civic
> Toyota Corolla
> Mazda 3
> Nissan Versa

If you keep a new car 10 yrs, as I usually do, depreciation is almost
the same for most similar priced cars.
Very little value after 10+ yrs.

 

On Mon, 12 May 2008 13:07:14 -0500, RPS <rps@null.void> wrote:

>Elmo P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
>: Well, you may be thinking that it's "too expensive to buy". It may or
>: may not be too expensive to operate.
>:
>: The up front cost is only one of the many costs. You buy it once, but
>: you operate it over and over again. You must look at an overall cost,
>: per mile, to come to any conclusions.
>:
>: I'd compare similarly equipped Corolla and Prius...
>
>Just using round numbers, the price difference appears to be $6000.
>
>If I drive 12000 miles per year, Corolla (30 mpg) would need 400
>gallons of fuel. Prius (40mpg) about 300 gallons. Difference is 100
>gallons, let's say $500.
>
>That would mean 10-12 years to merely recover the extra money you pay
>upfront. So, I am not saying Prius is not a good car, but it has become
>something of a fad/fashion too and I don't see the economy: I give them
>$6000, and hope that maybe I'd earn it back by 2020?
>
>So, I am inclined to stay with the best of conventional cars. Trying to
>figure out which one!


Ok, I'm biased since I own 3 Corollas (one tho is a 1992 but in great
shape). I won't get into which one is the best because of my bias
but how can you go wrong with any of your choices? Even if you did,
how bad could it be compared to your other choices? I say rather
than beat your brains out, buy the Corolla (is my bias showing yet?)
and enjoy it for 200,000 miles or more.

 

In article <9Q4Wj.2609$ah4.604@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com>,
"Edwin Pawlowski" <esp@snet.net> wrote:

> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> >
> > Hmmmm. The Prius will get, over a year's time, no less than 45mpg. And
> > that's without any freaky driving techniques.
> >
>
> My concern is still the batteries. The OP had his present car for 12 years
> so I'm going to assume he wants long life from the next. Will the batteries
> become a nightmare or just another expense? Just something to be factored
> in for the total cost of driving over the years. I keep hearing about a
> five year life, so that would be two changes for the OP if he keeps the car
> that long.

Based on other rechargeable batteries I would expect a significant drop
off in capacity after 3 to 5 years.
Since the Prius will still run anyway I'm sure the batteries will be run
into the ground before replacement.

 

Oops that was a math error, so that drops your savings down to $4,000 in 10
years. Show me the data indicating battery packs fail in great numbers, at
least as much as transmission and engine problems as hybrid cars have been
on the road more than 10 years and some have over 300,000 miles on them.
The other issue, is why would you want a low end car with a manual
transmission, I would not even consider one. It would also have poor resale
value? though not a major factor, but, unless you are going to drive the car
into the ground, it has some bering.
If you are comparing a car with an automatic trans, yes, you need to add
the auto to the other....BTW. I did use the base Corolla for the comparison
but comparing a stripped econo-box to a fairly well equipped car is the same
logic people use when comparing the Honda hybrid to the Civic DX, sorry,
like it or not, the hybrid is on par with the EX not the DX so, though you
may be happy with a low end car, Hybrids are not and therefore the
difference it owed to more than the cost of the hybrid system but the Hybrid
may not be for you.


"Newbie" <newbie@no.spam> wrote in message
news:120520082156269384%newbie@no.spam...
> Justbob30 <NoThank@you.com> wrote:
>
> : Before you say you cant afford a hybrid, lets take a look at the web
> site,
> : base Prius $21,100, base Corolla auto (apples to apples) $17,110,
> difference
> : $2,715,
>
> ONE, the difference between your own numbers is $4000.
>
> TWO, I am not sure if "apples to apples" is as fair a comparison as you
> make it sound. Corolla is available in cheaper versions, Prius is not.
> A manual CE would not only cost less but also have better mpg.

 

Got a lot of opinions Josh, how about facts, the Prius will NOT run on a
failed battery pack and cabbies have heavy feet, it is part of the
job.....however, don't you see the contradiction in your two statements that
the battery packs fail in three to five years yet they are usesd as high
mileage taxies....of course you don't see that, after all, you have been
told all of these things and after all drove a prius once admittedly
overloaded. Oh well, this is the internet, these are things you have heard
or read so of course they must be true fact.

"Josh S" <Josh@clean.spam> wrote in message
news:Josh-7A93BB.23225012052008@news.telus.net...
> In article <120520081307140096%rps@null.void>, RPS <rps@null.void>
> wrote:
>
>> If I drive 12000 miles per year, Corolla (30 mpg) would need 400
>> gallons of fuel. Prius (40mpg) about 300 gallons. Difference is 100
>> gallons, let's say $500.
>
> The cabbies here tell me they get:
> -9 l/100 (26 mpUSg) with the Corolla and
> -6 l/100 (39 mpUSg) with the Prius.
> This is all urban driving.

 

In article <Josh-F017ED.23290712052008@news.telus.net>,
Josh S <Josh@clean.spam> wrote:

> > Don't forget the size. The Prius is larger than the Corolla; if you
> > think you'd want something larger that also gets good gas mileage,
> > that's the Prius. If you think you're stuck with a Corolla-sized car,
> > you're not. Not necessarily.
>
> IMO they've similar in interior space.

They're not.

 

In article <1z7Wj.264367$pM4.120239@pd7urf1no>,
Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote:

> > TWO, I am not sure if "apples to apples" is as fair a comparison as you
> > make it sound. Corolla is available in cheaper versions, Prius is not.
> > A manual CE would not only cost less but also have better mpg.
> Hmmm,
> Cost of battery pack when it needs replacing?

Is no different than the cost of the traditional automatic transmission
when it needs replacing.

And after 125K, a traditional auto trans will need replacing. It seems
to be normal nowadays.

 

Justbob30 <justbob30@nevermind.com> wrote:

: The other issue, is why would you want a low end car with a manual
: transmission..

I was just pointing out that it is an option. If someone is comfortable
with manual transmission (as OP stated) and wants to save money while
still getting Corolla quality, he can.

I have owned manual and automatic Toyotas and never had problem selling
either kind.

 

"Newbie" <newbie@no.spam> wrote in message
news:130520080707350336%newbie@no.spam...
> Justbob30 <justbob30@nevermind.com> wrote:
>
> : The other issue, is why would you want a low end car with a manual
> : transmission..
>
> I was just pointing out that it is an option. If someone is comfortable
> with manual transmission (as OP stated) and wants to save money while
> still getting Corolla quality, he can.
>
> I have owned manual and automatic Toyotas and never had problem selling
> either kind.

And as gas prices climb closer to $4/gal, small efficient manual
transmission vehicles will be more desirable. I expect to see a premium on
manual trans, small engine cars pretty soon in the US.

Jon