Consumer reports says the new Buick Regals exceed the quality of Honda and
Toyota now
ed/ontario

 

Only based on '03 reliability scores. I'm subscribed to consumer reports
car service and looking at all three right now. (Assume you mean vs. the
Accord and Camry). Buick Regal got a perfect score for reliability, but
black marks both for owner satisfaction and depreciation. Overall, the
Accord and Camry win hands down in Consumer Reports.


"xxxxxxxx" <carpediem@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:Gufsb.105568$PD3.5452818@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> Consumer reports says the new Buick Regals exceed the quality of Honda and
> Toyota now
> ed/ontario
>
>

 

Only based on '03 reliability scores. I'm subscribed to consumer reports
car service and looking at all three right now. (Assume you mean vs. the
Accord and Camry). Buick Regal got a perfect score for reliability, but
black marks both for owner satisfaction and depreciation. Overall, the
Accord and Camry win hands down in Consumer Reports.


"xxxxxxxx" <carpediem@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:Gufsb.105568$PD3.5452818@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> Consumer reports says the new Buick Regals exceed the quality of Honda and
> Toyota now
> ed/ontario
>
>

 

Only based on '03 reliability scores. I'm subscribed to consumer reports
car service and looking at all three right now. (Assume you mean vs. the
Accord and Camry). Buick Regal got a perfect score for reliability, but
black marks both for owner satisfaction and depreciation. Overall, the
Accord and Camry win hands down in Consumer Reports.


"xxxxxxxx" <carpediem@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:Gufsb.105568$PD3.5452818@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> Consumer reports says the new Buick Regals exceed the quality of Honda and
> Toyota now
> ed/ontario
>
>

 

Only based on '03 reliability scores. I'm subscribed to consumer reports
car service and looking at all three right now. (Assume you mean vs. the
Accord and Camry). Buick Regal got a perfect score for reliability, but
black marks both for owner satisfaction and depreciation. Overall, the
Accord and Camry win hands down in Consumer Reports.


"xxxxxxxx" <carpediem@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:Gufsb.105568$PD3.5452818@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> Consumer reports says the new Buick Regals exceed the quality of Honda and
> Toyota now
> ed/ontario
>
>

 

Some basic exterior factors indicate either quality or 'bean
counter' designs. Honda is starting to let 'bean counters'
design more of the car. For example, look at the side of a V6
Accord.

A good designer first determines everything a side must do.
Then the artist sculptor adapts his design to those
requirements. 1970 and 1990 Hondas had side door guards. But
now an artist wants to make the V6 side look 'good'.
Therefore he created an ugly door that begs every other car to
smash in that panel. Its called dings or dents. Trophies to
the mental midget who designed a door without any protection.
Mental midgetry is something new in the Honda design
departments.

All acceptable cars use orange turn signals. Necessary and
essential to human safety. Those who know cars also know
that red rear turn signals cannot be seen in inclement
weather. Only anti-American cars such as Chevys kept using
red rear turn signals. But now those bean counter types have
gotten into Honda. The new Civic and Odessy don't use orange
turn signals. Bean counters can cut costs by making inferior
red turn signals that 1) cannot be seen in fog, snow white
out, or heavy rain, 2) are easily confused with brake lights,
and 3) make emergency flashers stop working when brake petal
is pressed.

Why would anyone in Honda do what crappy GM products do?
Why make the Honda inferior? Red rear turn signals are found
mostly on the worst cars on American roads. Notice that no
Toyota or Mercedes use red rear turn signals. Red rear turn
signals are forced upon designer by anti-innovation 'bean
counters'.

So yes, Honda quality should be decreasing as indicated by
the number of anti-innovation symptoms now appearing in
Hondas.

First the designer clearly defines what is necessary. Only
then does the artist form the design. Bean counters fear the
expense of orange rear turn signals, side door protection, and
anything that would be innovative. Notice how the engine
compartment has gotten higher - an indication that costs are
being cut by scrimping on engine compartment design. High
front end engine compartments are traditionally the symptom of
bean counter designing - more common in the low performance GM
products of the last 30 years. Now even Honda engine hoods
are higher - apparently because fewer car guys are now
designing the Hondas.

John wrote:
> Only based on '03 reliability scores. I'm subscribed to consumer
> reports car service and looking at all three right now. (Assume
> you mean vs. the Accord and Camry). Buick Regal got a perfect score
> for reliability, but black marks both for owner satisfaction and
> depreciation. Overall, the Accord and Camry win hands down in
> Consumer Reports.

 

Some basic exterior factors indicate either quality or 'bean
counter' designs. Honda is starting to let 'bean counters'
design more of the car. For example, look at the side of a V6
Accord.

A good designer first determines everything a side must do.
Then the artist sculptor adapts his design to those
requirements. 1970 and 1990 Hondas had side door guards. But
now an artist wants to make the V6 side look 'good'.
Therefore he created an ugly door that begs every other car to
smash in that panel. Its called dings or dents. Trophies to
the mental midget who designed a door without any protection.
Mental midgetry is something new in the Honda design
departments.

All acceptable cars use orange turn signals. Necessary and
essential to human safety. Those who know cars also know
that red rear turn signals cannot be seen in inclement
weather. Only anti-American cars such as Chevys kept using
red rear turn signals. But now those bean counter types have
gotten into Honda. The new Civic and Odessy don't use orange
turn signals. Bean counters can cut costs by making inferior
red turn signals that 1) cannot be seen in fog, snow white
out, or heavy rain, 2) are easily confused with brake lights,
and 3) make emergency flashers stop working when brake petal
is pressed.

Why would anyone in Honda do what crappy GM products do?
Why make the Honda inferior? Red rear turn signals are found
mostly on the worst cars on American roads. Notice that no
Toyota or Mercedes use red rear turn signals. Red rear turn
signals are forced upon designer by anti-innovation 'bean
counters'.

So yes, Honda quality should be decreasing as indicated by
the number of anti-innovation symptoms now appearing in
Hondas.

First the designer clearly defines what is necessary. Only
then does the artist form the design. Bean counters fear the
expense of orange rear turn signals, side door protection, and
anything that would be innovative. Notice how the engine
compartment has gotten higher - an indication that costs are
being cut by scrimping on engine compartment design. High
front end engine compartments are traditionally the symptom of
bean counter designing - more common in the low performance GM
products of the last 30 years. Now even Honda engine hoods
are higher - apparently because fewer car guys are now
designing the Hondas.

John wrote:
> Only based on '03 reliability scores. I'm subscribed to consumer
> reports car service and looking at all three right now. (Assume
> you mean vs. the Accord and Camry). Buick Regal got a perfect score
> for reliability, but black marks both for owner satisfaction and
> depreciation. Overall, the Accord and Camry win hands down in
> Consumer Reports.

 

Some basic exterior factors indicate either quality or 'bean
counter' designs. Honda is starting to let 'bean counters'
design more of the car. For example, look at the side of a V6
Accord.

A good designer first determines everything a side must do.
Then the artist sculptor adapts his design to those
requirements. 1970 and 1990 Hondas had side door guards. But
now an artist wants to make the V6 side look 'good'.
Therefore he created an ugly door that begs every other car to
smash in that panel. Its called dings or dents. Trophies to
the mental midget who designed a door without any protection.
Mental midgetry is something new in the Honda design
departments.

All acceptable cars use orange turn signals. Necessary and
essential to human safety. Those who know cars also know
that red rear turn signals cannot be seen in inclement
weather. Only anti-American cars such as Chevys kept using
red rear turn signals. But now those bean counter types have
gotten into Honda. The new Civic and Odessy don't use orange
turn signals. Bean counters can cut costs by making inferior
red turn signals that 1) cannot be seen in fog, snow white
out, or heavy rain, 2) are easily confused with brake lights,
and 3) make emergency flashers stop working when brake petal
is pressed.

Why would anyone in Honda do what crappy GM products do?
Why make the Honda inferior? Red rear turn signals are found
mostly on the worst cars on American roads. Notice that no
Toyota or Mercedes use red rear turn signals. Red rear turn
signals are forced upon designer by anti-innovation 'bean
counters'.

So yes, Honda quality should be decreasing as indicated by
the number of anti-innovation symptoms now appearing in
Hondas.

First the designer clearly defines what is necessary. Only
then does the artist form the design. Bean counters fear the
expense of orange rear turn signals, side door protection, and
anything that would be innovative. Notice how the engine
compartment has gotten higher - an indication that costs are
being cut by scrimping on engine compartment design. High
front end engine compartments are traditionally the symptom of
bean counter designing - more common in the low performance GM
products of the last 30 years. Now even Honda engine hoods
are higher - apparently because fewer car guys are now
designing the Hondas.

John wrote:
> Only based on '03 reliability scores. I'm subscribed to consumer
> reports car service and looking at all three right now. (Assume
> you mean vs. the Accord and Camry). Buick Regal got a perfect score
> for reliability, but black marks both for owner satisfaction and
> depreciation. Overall, the Accord and Camry win hands down in
> Consumer Reports.

 

Some basic exterior factors indicate either quality or 'bean
counter' designs. Honda is starting to let 'bean counters'
design more of the car. For example, look at the side of a V6
Accord.

A good designer first determines everything a side must do.
Then the artist sculptor adapts his design to those
requirements. 1970 and 1990 Hondas had side door guards. But
now an artist wants to make the V6 side look 'good'.
Therefore he created an ugly door that begs every other car to
smash in that panel. Its called dings or dents. Trophies to
the mental midget who designed a door without any protection.
Mental midgetry is something new in the Honda design
departments.

All acceptable cars use orange turn signals. Necessary and
essential to human safety. Those who know cars also know
that red rear turn signals cannot be seen in inclement
weather. Only anti-American cars such as Chevys kept using
red rear turn signals. But now those bean counter types have
gotten into Honda. The new Civic and Odessy don't use orange
turn signals. Bean counters can cut costs by making inferior
red turn signals that 1) cannot be seen in fog, snow white
out, or heavy rain, 2) are easily confused with brake lights,
and 3) make emergency flashers stop working when brake petal
is pressed.

Why would anyone in Honda do what crappy GM products do?
Why make the Honda inferior? Red rear turn signals are found
mostly on the worst cars on American roads. Notice that no
Toyota or Mercedes use red rear turn signals. Red rear turn
signals are forced upon designer by anti-innovation 'bean
counters'.

So yes, Honda quality should be decreasing as indicated by
the number of anti-innovation symptoms now appearing in
Hondas.

First the designer clearly defines what is necessary. Only
then does the artist form the design. Bean counters fear the
expense of orange rear turn signals, side door protection, and
anything that would be innovative. Notice how the engine
compartment has gotten higher - an indication that costs are
being cut by scrimping on engine compartment design. High
front end engine compartments are traditionally the symptom of
bean counter designing - more common in the low performance GM
products of the last 30 years. Now even Honda engine hoods
are higher - apparently because fewer car guys are now
designing the Hondas.

John wrote:
> Only based on '03 reliability scores. I'm subscribed to consumer
> reports car service and looking at all three right now. (Assume
> you mean vs. the Accord and Camry). Buick Regal got a perfect score
> for reliability, but black marks both for owner satisfaction and
> depreciation. Overall, the Accord and Camry win hands down in
> Consumer Reports.

 

In article <Gufsb.105568$PD3.5452818@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "xxxxxxxx"
<carpediem@netrover.com> wrote:

> Consumer reports says the new Buick Regals exceed the quality of Honda and
> Toyota now
> ed/ontario

The problem with many companies that TEST vehicles such as Consumer
Reports and Car and Driver magazine is that they test only new cars. The
very best tests are long term test results. I feel certain that if they
compared a 2004 Buick Regal to a 2004 Toyota or Honda five years from
now--we all know that the Honda and Toyota would beat the Buick Regal.
American cars usually run really great for a couple of years and after
that--they start having all sorts of major problems. There are some
exceptions but I know from experience that it happens very often with many
cars made by American companies. A local mechanic said that he hates
Hondas and Toyotas since they rarely ever break down with major problems.
He said that he loves American cars since they keep him in business.

 

In article <Gufsb.105568$PD3.5452818@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "xxxxxxxx"
<carpediem@netrover.com> wrote:

> Consumer reports says the new Buick Regals exceed the quality of Honda and
> Toyota now
> ed/ontario

The problem with many companies that TEST vehicles such as Consumer
Reports and Car and Driver magazine is that they test only new cars. The
very best tests are long term test results. I feel certain that if they
compared a 2004 Buick Regal to a 2004 Toyota or Honda five years from
now--we all know that the Honda and Toyota would beat the Buick Regal.
American cars usually run really great for a couple of years and after
that--they start having all sorts of major problems. There are some
exceptions but I know from experience that it happens very often with many
cars made by American companies. A local mechanic said that he hates
Hondas and Toyotas since they rarely ever break down with major problems.
He said that he loves American cars since they keep him in business.

 

In article <Gufsb.105568$PD3.5452818@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "xxxxxxxx"
<carpediem@netrover.com> wrote:

> Consumer reports says the new Buick Regals exceed the quality of Honda and
> Toyota now
> ed/ontario

The problem with many companies that TEST vehicles such as Consumer
Reports and Car and Driver magazine is that they test only new cars. The
very best tests are long term test results. I feel certain that if they
compared a 2004 Buick Regal to a 2004 Toyota or Honda five years from
now--we all know that the Honda and Toyota would beat the Buick Regal.
American cars usually run really great for a couple of years and after
that--they start having all sorts of major problems. There are some
exceptions but I know from experience that it happens very often with many
cars made by American companies. A local mechanic said that he hates
Hondas and Toyotas since they rarely ever break down with major problems.
He said that he loves American cars since they keep him in business.

 

In article <Gufsb.105568$PD3.5452818@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "xxxxxxxx"
<carpediem@netrover.com> wrote:

> Consumer reports says the new Buick Regals exceed the quality of Honda and
> Toyota now
> ed/ontario

The problem with many companies that TEST vehicles such as Consumer
Reports and Car and Driver magazine is that they test only new cars. The
very best tests are long term test results. I feel certain that if they
compared a 2004 Buick Regal to a 2004 Toyota or Honda five years from
now--we all know that the Honda and Toyota would beat the Buick Regal.
American cars usually run really great for a couple of years and after
that--they start having all sorts of major problems. There are some
exceptions but I know from experience that it happens very often with many
cars made by American companies. A local mechanic said that he hates
Hondas and Toyotas since they rarely ever break down with major problems.
He said that he loves American cars since they keep him in business.

 

It does not matter how obvious those T-bird signals were in
clear weather. Approach any traffic signal in heavy fog. If
green or orange, it is seen with sufficient time. If red, not
observed until car is too close. Red does not cut through
fog, snow whiteout, or heavy rain. Orange does. Its simple
science.

Delays and other problems with same red bulb trying to be a
signal light AND a brake light AND an emergency flasher - all
demonstrate why red rear turn signals are only put on cars
designed by 'bean counters'. Now Honda is getting so MBA
oriented as to put red turn signals on 03 Civic and Odessy.
This is bad news to anyone who has been used to twenty five
years of superior designs from Honda. They all used orange
rear turn signals for good reason. It suggests the same bean
counters that created those terrible GM products and those
Henry Ford (pre-1981) products are now designing Hondas.

In the meantime, don't confuse how well your brain responds
to red with something completely different - how well red can
be seen by the human eye. Red is the worst color for
inclement weather. When are those signals most required? In
inclement weather. When the eye cannot detect red light.
Orange is what 'car guys' design into cars. Red is what 'bean
counters' demand to cut costs - human life be damned.

Red turn signals on Hondas and no side guard protection for
doors suggests that anti-innovators are now getting control of
Honda designs.

W Bittle wrote:
>> All acceptable cars use orange turn signals. Necessary and
>> essential to human safety. Those who know cars also know
>> that red rear turn signals cannot be seen in inclement
>> weather. Only anti-American cars such as Chevys kept using
>> red rear turn signals.
>
> Uh, I had a 65 Thunderbird with the sequential red turn signals
> in the rear. If you could miss that baby, you should not be on
> the road. But, seriously. I always thought something like my
> 01 2 dr. Accord should have used that full across the back light
> with a 3 bulb per side sequential turn signal arrangement
> similar to the 65 - 71 Tbird. You just plain could not miss such
> a big and active turn signal. And, being red, it did not blind
> you at night like some of the real bright amber turn signals,
> many of which rival the headlights. During the day, I actually
> find the amber signals harder to see then the red ones. And to
> this day, when I see an old Tbird turning, it stands out like an
> emergency vehicle.
>
> With respect to trucks. I'm with you. There is nothing like
> being behind the infamous "Blinky Light" ford F series pickup.
> They have a goofy brake switch and a signal blinker that hesitates
> giving a situation where the driver hits the brakes then hits the
> turn signal and the light on the side he is signaling goes out for
> almost a full second before flashing. This gives the impression he
> is actually turning the other way. I wish Ford would fix this
> annoying and dangerous problem.

 

It does not matter how obvious those T-bird signals were in
clear weather. Approach any traffic signal in heavy fog. If
green or orange, it is seen with sufficient time. If red, not
observed until car is too close. Red does not cut through
fog, snow whiteout, or heavy rain. Orange does. Its simple
science.

Delays and other problems with same red bulb trying to be a
signal light AND a brake light AND an emergency flasher - all
demonstrate why red rear turn signals are only put on cars
designed by 'bean counters'. Now Honda is getting so MBA
oriented as to put red turn signals on 03 Civic and Odessy.
This is bad news to anyone who has been used to twenty five
years of superior designs from Honda. They all used orange
rear turn signals for good reason. It suggests the same bean
counters that created those terrible GM products and those
Henry Ford (pre-1981) products are now designing Hondas.

In the meantime, don't confuse how well your brain responds
to red with something completely different - how well red can
be seen by the human eye. Red is the worst color for
inclement weather. When are those signals most required? In
inclement weather. When the eye cannot detect red light.
Orange is what 'car guys' design into cars. Red is what 'bean
counters' demand to cut costs - human life be damned.

Red turn signals on Hondas and no side guard protection for
doors suggests that anti-innovators are now getting control of
Honda designs.

W Bittle wrote:
>> All acceptable cars use orange turn signals. Necessary and
>> essential to human safety. Those who know cars also know
>> that red rear turn signals cannot be seen in inclement
>> weather. Only anti-American cars such as Chevys kept using
>> red rear turn signals.
>
> Uh, I had a 65 Thunderbird with the sequential red turn signals
> in the rear. If you could miss that baby, you should not be on
> the road. But, seriously. I always thought something like my
> 01 2 dr. Accord should have used that full across the back light
> with a 3 bulb per side sequential turn signal arrangement
> similar to the 65 - 71 Tbird. You just plain could not miss such
> a big and active turn signal. And, being red, it did not blind
> you at night like some of the real bright amber turn signals,
> many of which rival the headlights. During the day, I actually
> find the amber signals harder to see then the red ones. And to
> this day, when I see an old Tbird turning, it stands out like an
> emergency vehicle.
>
> With respect to trucks. I'm with you. There is nothing like
> being behind the infamous "Blinky Light" ford F series pickup.
> They have a goofy brake switch and a signal blinker that hesitates
> giving a situation where the driver hits the brakes then hits the
> turn signal and the light on the side he is signaling goes out for
> almost a full second before flashing. This gives the impression he
> is actually turning the other way. I wish Ford would fix this
> annoying and dangerous problem.