JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
> of wiring was involved
>
> simple run down to check your wiring against
>
> ECU pin component
> a1 inj 1
> a3 inj 2
> a5 inj 3
> a7 inj 4
> a15 inj resistor box
>
>
> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>
>
>
>
> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires

good thinking.

if not, check the cam timing.

 

JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
> of wiring was involved
>
> simple run down to check your wiring against
>
> ECU pin component
> a1 inj 1
> a3 inj 2
> a5 inj 3
> a7 inj 4
> a15 inj resistor box
>
>
> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>
>
>
>
> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires

good thinking.

if not, check the cam timing.

 

Matt Ion wrote:
> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>> of wiring was involved
>>
>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>
>> ECU pin component
>> a1 inj 1
>> a3 inj 2
>> a5 inj 3
>> a7 inj 4
>> a15 inj resistor box
>>
>>
>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>
> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION" throttle
> bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to double-check the
> wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.

it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the 2pfi
to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
reversed as a result.

 

Matt Ion wrote:
> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>> of wiring was involved
>>
>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>
>> ECU pin component
>> a1 inj 1
>> a3 inj 2
>> a5 inj 3
>> a7 inj 4
>> a15 inj resistor box
>>
>>
>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>
> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION" throttle
> bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to double-check the
> wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.

it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the 2pfi
to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
reversed as a result.

 

Matt Ion wrote:
> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:_Y51i.176043$6m4.108395@pd7urf1no:
>>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:
>>>>
>>>>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI
>>>>> for his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring
>>>>> harness). Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times...
>>>>> and fired right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>>>>
>>>>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs
>>>>> and hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies.
>>>>> Do it carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It
>>>>> also seems to idle a little bit rich.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving
>>>>> any.
>>>>> TIA
>>>> Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
>>>> That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump
>>>> may be different for a carbureted model.
>>> The old engine was a D15, if memory serves, but it definitely had
>>> PGM-FI. It runs great past 2000rpm and on up to redline, it's just
>>> that initial low-RPM push that's dropping out.
>>
>> maybe a bad throttle position sensor? Maybe it's defective at the low
>> end,perhaps a dirty/worn resistive element.
>
> I thought of that... we haven't had a chance to check it yet, but I'll
> pass that on the suggestion. But wouldn't the computer be throwing
> error codes in that case?

it may only throw codes if there's a bad connection - like if the
slider's worn on the carbon track inside the sensor. reverse wiring
won't be a bad connection.

>
> Fortunately he still has the old engine, complete with intake, so
> there's at least a known working one there

 

Matt Ion wrote:
> Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:_Y51i.176043$6m4.108395@pd7urf1no:
>>> Jim Yanik wrote:
>>>> Matt Ion <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no:
>>>>
>>>>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI
>>>>> for his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring
>>>>> harness). Got it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times...
>>>>> and fired right up. Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>>>>
>>>>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs
>>>>> and hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies.
>>>>> Do it carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It
>>>>> also seems to idle a little bit rich.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving
>>>>> any.
>>>>> TIA
>>>> Does he have enough fuel pressure to run the fuel injection?
>>>> That takes more pressure than a carbureted engine,and the fuel pump
>>>> may be different for a carbureted model.
>>> The old engine was a D15, if memory serves, but it definitely had
>>> PGM-FI. It runs great past 2000rpm and on up to redline, it's just
>>> that initial low-RPM push that's dropping out.
>>
>> maybe a bad throttle position sensor? Maybe it's defective at the low
>> end,perhaps a dirty/worn resistive element.
>
> I thought of that... we haven't had a chance to check it yet, but I'll
> pass that on the suggestion. But wouldn't the computer be throwing
> error codes in that case?

it may only throw codes if there's a bad connection - like if the
slider's worn on the carbon track inside the sensor. reverse wiring
won't be a bad connection.

>
> Fortunately he still has the old engine, complete with intake, so
> there's at least a known working one there

 

"Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA
Just a thought...Some of these systems take a bit of time for the various
processors to synch and get a baseline established. I don't know about the
Honda Civic but I do know that the Chrysler takes a day or so to get
completely normal.

DaveD

 

"Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA
Just a thought...Some of these systems take a bit of time for the various
processors to synch and get a baseline established. I don't know about the
Honda Civic but I do know that the Chrysler takes a day or so to get
completely normal.

DaveD

 

jim beam wrote:
> Matt Ion wrote:
>> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>>> of wiring was involved
>>>
>>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>>
>>> ECU pin component
>>> a1 inj 1
>>> a3 inj 2
>>> a5 inj 3
>>> a7 inj 4
>>> a15 inj resistor box
>>>
>>>
>>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>>
>> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
>> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION"
>> throttle bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to
>> double-check the wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.
>
> it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the 2pfi
> to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
> reversed as a result.

Except that both the previous engine and the new engine are both MPFI
with identical throttle bodies...

 

jim beam wrote:
> Matt Ion wrote:
>> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>>> of wiring was involved
>>>
>>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>>
>>> ECU pin component
>>> a1 inj 1
>>> a3 inj 2
>>> a5 inj 3
>>> a7 inj 4
>>> a15 inj resistor box
>>>
>>>
>>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>>
>> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
>> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION"
>> throttle bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to
>> double-check the wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.
>
> it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the 2pfi
> to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
> reversed as a result.

Except that both the previous engine and the new engine are both MPFI
with identical throttle bodies...

 

Dave and Trudy wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
>> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
>> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
>> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>
>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
>> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
>> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
>> to idle a little bit rich.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>>
>> TIA
> Just a thought...Some of these systems take a bit of time for the various
> processors to synch and get a baseline established. I don't know about the
> Honda Civic but I do know that the Chrysler takes a day or so to get
> completely normal.

Yeah, don't think that's an issue in an '89 with OBD-0.

 

Dave and Trudy wrote:
> "Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
>> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
>> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
>> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
>> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>>
>> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
>> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
>> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
>> to idle a little bit rich.
>>
>> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>>
>> TIA
> Just a thought...Some of these systems take a bit of time for the various
> processors to synch and get a baseline established. I don't know about the
> Honda Civic but I do know that the Chrysler takes a day or so to get
> completely normal.

Yeah, don't think that's an issue in an '89 with OBD-0.

 

"Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA
>
It would really help to separate mixture trouble from ignition trouble. How
about a timing light to see what the timing does when the throttle is opened
a bit? The timing should advance a few degrees, but not jump fifteen degrees
or retard a lot. (It may retard some based on the rise in MAP.) Similarly he
can try adding a squirt of starting fluid into the air cleaner a second
before he opens the throttle to see if that improves the response - which
would point to a lean mixture on throttle opening.

Mike

 

"Matt Ion" <soundy106@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:NE21i.173204$DE1.115546@pd7urf2no...
> Buddy of mine just rebuilt (with all OEM parts!) a D16A6 with PGM-FI for
> his '89 Civic (including the appropriate computer and wiring harness). Got
> it installed, turned the key, engine turned 3 times... and fired right up.
> Very nice. Idles smoooooth and quiet...
>
> But when he gives it any gas, even just sitting in neutral, it bogs and
> hesitates. Hit the gas too fast, and it just sputters and dies. Do it
> carefully, and once it gets 1800rpm or so, it works fine. It also seems
> to idle a little bit rich.
>
> Thoughts? Ideas? He's checked for error codes, but it's not giving any.
>
> TIA
>
It would really help to separate mixture trouble from ignition trouble. How
about a timing light to see what the timing does when the throttle is opened
a bit? The timing should advance a few degrees, but not jump fifteen degrees
or retard a lot. (It may retard some based on the rise in MAP.) Similarly he
can try adding a squirt of starting fluid into the air cleaner a second
before he opens the throttle to see if that improves the response - which
would point to a lean mixture on throttle opening.

Mike

 

Matt Ion wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>> Matt Ion wrote:
>>> JHLorusso@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> it sounds like you converted from DPFI to MPFI, in which case a bit
>>>> of wiring was involved
>>>>
>>>> simple run down to check your wiring against
>>>>
>>>> ECU pin component
>>>> a1 inj 1
>>>> a3 inj 2
>>>> a5 inj 3
>>>> a7 inj 4
>>>> a15 inj resistor box
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> run all red/blk wires from injectors back to resistor box
>>>> swap pins from c1 and c2 to b10 and b12 respectively
>>>> run new wire from c1 and c2 into engine bay
>>>> swap out old DPFI distributor plug to MPFI plug (matching colors)
>>>> wire from c1 goes to blue/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>>> wire from c2 goes to yell/grn wire on new distributor plug
>>>> extend TPS plug 6" and swap outer 2 wires
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> sounds like you forgot to switch the TPS wires
>>>
>>> Both engines (the one that came out of the car, and the new one) have
>>> the same intake systems, the "PGM-FI PROGRAMMED FUEL INJECTION"
>>> throttle bodies and multipoint injectors. I'll tell him to
>>> double-check the wiring, but I don't think that'll be it.
>>
>> it's likely that it is - the tps sensor rotation is opposite on the
>> 2pfi to the 4pfi. the plug and sensors are the same but the wires are
>> reversed as a result.
>
> Except that both the previous engine and the new engine are both MPFI
> with identical throttle bodies...
>
then check the cam timing.