civic diesel
09-05-2008 | 03:41 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt it...
>
> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
> you have a computer and an internet connection!
But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with some
>> of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
>
> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent on a
good compression and excellent battery charge and overal condition tend to
be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a lot of miles.
news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt it...
>
> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
> you have a computer and an internet connection!
But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with some
>> of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
>
> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent on a
good compression and excellent battery charge and overal condition tend to
be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a lot of miles.
09-05-2008 | 04:50 PM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
"Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in
news:g9qr2a.3qo.0@poczta.onet.pl:
> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9B1045B99169Btegger@208.90.168.18...
>>> Diesel fuel is more expensive in USA from the gasoline.
>>
>>
>>
>> North America does not aggressively favor diesel with lower taxes the
>> way much of Europe does.
>
> Regardless of the reason for the fact, the fact is that it is more
> expensive.
The difference between fuels in various countries is ALL tax. That's
critically important.
>
>
>>> It will be
>>> very hard to sell diesel car in USA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't overlook the "green" factor. Hybrids are so expensive you'll
>> never recover the extra purchase price in fuel savings, but the Prius
>> is awfully popular on account of its "green" image.
>>
>> I can see the Prius demographic also flocking to diesels as the new
>> "green" image cars. Such people often have a strong desire to wear
>> their "greenness" as a fashion statement, and I suspect the new
>> diesels would be marketed as such.
>
>
> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
> it...
It's the IMAGE that counts, not whether it's actually "green" or not.
You sell the image, you sell the product.
Diesels are still smelly, noisy and expensive. The fuel is the same
price or more expensive than gas at the pump. So they haven't got a lot
more to sell other than cachet.
>
>
>>> especially in the northern states
>>> with strong winters.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Diesels are much better in cold weather than they used to be.
>
>
> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with
> some of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
OH yeah... And remember those GM automotive diesels of 1979?
>
>
>> I believe the
>> only two makers that sell diesel cars in Canada are Smart and
>> Volkswagen. Nobody seems to have any trouble getting them started in
>> the winter up here.
>
>
> I am not that surprised about Canada... They solved the winter car
> problems long time ago. Engine block heater is a standard equipment in
> Canadian cars. I visited Calgary some time ago and I saw almost every
> public parking lot had 120VAC sockets to plug your car in, even when
> parked for an hour or two for shopping in front of a mall. In USA,
> situation is much different, at least in Chicago.
Forty below is tough on any engine, gas or diesel. In the US I don't
think even Alaska ever gets 40 below, which is common in Alberta in the
winter.
>
> I consider installing such a device in my 2004 accord coupe. I live in
> Chicago suburbs and winter can be harsh enough for this device to be
> useful if your car is parked outside overnight.
Cars are fine to at least -20F without any block heater at all. The
primary usefulness for block heaters in the East is to help the interior
warm up more quickly.
--
Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
news:g9qr2a.3qo.0@poczta.onet.pl:
> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
> news:Xns9B1045B99169Btegger@208.90.168.18...
>>> Diesel fuel is more expensive in USA from the gasoline.
>>
>>
>>
>> North America does not aggressively favor diesel with lower taxes the
>> way much of Europe does.
>
> Regardless of the reason for the fact, the fact is that it is more
> expensive.
The difference between fuels in various countries is ALL tax. That's
critically important.
>
>
>>> It will be
>>> very hard to sell diesel car in USA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't overlook the "green" factor. Hybrids are so expensive you'll
>> never recover the extra purchase price in fuel savings, but the Prius
>> is awfully popular on account of its "green" image.
>>
>> I can see the Prius demographic also flocking to diesels as the new
>> "green" image cars. Such people often have a strong desire to wear
>> their "greenness" as a fashion statement, and I suspect the new
>> diesels would be marketed as such.
>
>
> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
> it...
It's the IMAGE that counts, not whether it's actually "green" or not.
You sell the image, you sell the product.
Diesels are still smelly, noisy and expensive. The fuel is the same
price or more expensive than gas at the pump. So they haven't got a lot
more to sell other than cachet.
>
>
>>> especially in the northern states
>>> with strong winters.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Diesels are much better in cold weather than they used to be.
>
>
> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with
> some of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
OH yeah... And remember those GM automotive diesels of 1979?
>
>
>> I believe the
>> only two makers that sell diesel cars in Canada are Smart and
>> Volkswagen. Nobody seems to have any trouble getting them started in
>> the winter up here.
>
>
> I am not that surprised about Canada... They solved the winter car
> problems long time ago. Engine block heater is a standard equipment in
> Canadian cars. I visited Calgary some time ago and I saw almost every
> public parking lot had 120VAC sockets to plug your car in, even when
> parked for an hour or two for shopping in front of a mall. In USA,
> situation is much different, at least in Chicago.
Forty below is tough on any engine, gas or diesel. In the US I don't
think even Alaska ever gets 40 below, which is common in Alberta in the
winter.
>
> I consider installing such a device in my 2004 accord coupe. I live in
> Chicago suburbs and winter can be harsh enough for this device to be
> useful if your car is parked outside overnight.
Cars are fine to at least -20F without any block heater at all. The
primary usefulness for block heaters in the East is to help the interior
warm up more quickly.
--
Tegger
The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
09-05-2008 | 11:05 PM
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
Tegger wrote:
> "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in
> news:g9qr2a.3qo.0@poczta.onet.pl:
>
>> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9B1045B99169Btegger@208.90.168.18...
>>>> Diesel fuel is more expensive in USA from the gasoline.
>>>
>>>
>>> North America does not aggressively favor diesel with lower taxes the
>>> way much of Europe does.
>> Regardless of the reason for the fact, the fact is that it is more
>> expensive.
>
>
>
>
> The difference between fuels in various countries is ALL tax. That's
> critically important.
>
>
>
>>
>>>> It will be
>>>> very hard to sell diesel car in USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't overlook the "green" factor. Hybrids are so expensive you'll
>>> never recover the extra purchase price in fuel savings, but the Prius
>>> is awfully popular on account of its "green" image.
>>>
>>> I can see the Prius demographic also flocking to diesels as the new
>>> "green" image cars. Such people often have a strong desire to wear
>>> their "greenness" as a fashion statement, and I suspect the new
>>> diesels would be marketed as such.
>>
>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
>> it...
>
>
>
>
> It's the IMAGE that counts, not whether it's actually "green" or not.
> You sell the image, you sell the product.
>
> Diesels are still smelly, noisy and expensive.
that's not true! thing is, these days, a good common rail injection
system is /so/ good, many people have great difficulty recognizing such
an engine as a diesel.
> The fuel is the same
> price or more expensive than gas at the pump. So they haven't got a lot
> more to sell other than cachet.
not true. they offer better efficiency, so mile for mile, they're
cheaper to run.
>
>
>
>>
>>>> especially in the northern states
>>>> with strong winters.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Diesels are much better in cold weather than they used to be.
>>
>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with
>> some of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
>
>
>
>
> OH yeah... And remember those GM automotive diesels of 1979?
they were badly converted gasoline engines. hideous.
>
>
>
>>
>>> I believe the
>>> only two makers that sell diesel cars in Canada are Smart and
>>> Volkswagen. Nobody seems to have any trouble getting them started in
>>> the winter up here.
>>
>> I am not that surprised about Canada... They solved the winter car
>> problems long time ago. Engine block heater is a standard equipment in
>> Canadian cars. I visited Calgary some time ago and I saw almost every
>> public parking lot had 120VAC sockets to plug your car in, even when
>> parked for an hour or two for shopping in front of a mall. In USA,
>> situation is much different, at least in Chicago.
>
>
>
> Forty below is tough on any engine, gas or diesel. In the US I don't
> think even Alaska ever gets 40 below, which is common in Alberta in the
> winter.
>
>
>
>> I consider installing such a device in my 2004 accord coupe. I live in
>> Chicago suburbs and winter can be harsh enough for this device to be
>> useful if your car is parked outside overnight.
>
>
>
>
> Cars are fine to at least -20F without any block heater at all. The
> primary usefulness for block heaters in the East is to help the interior
> warm up more quickly.
>
>
> "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> wrote in
> news:g9qr2a.3qo.0@poczta.onet.pl:
>
>> "Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9B1045B99169Btegger@208.90.168.18...
>>>> Diesel fuel is more expensive in USA from the gasoline.
>>>
>>>
>>> North America does not aggressively favor diesel with lower taxes the
>>> way much of Europe does.
>> Regardless of the reason for the fact, the fact is that it is more
>> expensive.
>
>
>
>
> The difference between fuels in various countries is ALL tax. That's
> critically important.
>
>
>
>>
>>>> It will be
>>>> very hard to sell diesel car in USA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't overlook the "green" factor. Hybrids are so expensive you'll
>>> never recover the extra purchase price in fuel savings, but the Prius
>>> is awfully popular on account of its "green" image.
>>>
>>> I can see the Prius demographic also flocking to diesels as the new
>>> "green" image cars. Such people often have a strong desire to wear
>>> their "greenness" as a fashion statement, and I suspect the new
>>> diesels would be marketed as such.
>>
>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
>> it...
>
>
>
>
> It's the IMAGE that counts, not whether it's actually "green" or not.
> You sell the image, you sell the product.
>
> Diesels are still smelly, noisy and expensive.
that's not true! thing is, these days, a good common rail injection
system is /so/ good, many people have great difficulty recognizing such
an engine as a diesel.
> The fuel is the same
> price or more expensive than gas at the pump. So they haven't got a lot
> more to sell other than cachet.
not true. they offer better efficiency, so mile for mile, they're
cheaper to run.
>
>
>
>>
>>>> especially in the northern states
>>>> with strong winters.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Diesels are much better in cold weather than they used to be.
>>
>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with
>> some of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
>
>
>
>
> OH yeah... And remember those GM automotive diesels of 1979?
they were badly converted gasoline engines. hideous.
>
>
>
>>
>>> I believe the
>>> only two makers that sell diesel cars in Canada are Smart and
>>> Volkswagen. Nobody seems to have any trouble getting them started in
>>> the winter up here.
>>
>> I am not that surprised about Canada... They solved the winter car
>> problems long time ago. Engine block heater is a standard equipment in
>> Canadian cars. I visited Calgary some time ago and I saw almost every
>> public parking lot had 120VAC sockets to plug your car in, even when
>> parked for an hour or two for shopping in front of a mall. In USA,
>> situation is much different, at least in Chicago.
>
>
>
> Forty below is tough on any engine, gas or diesel. In the US I don't
> think even Alaska ever gets 40 below, which is common in Alberta in the
> winter.
>
>
>
>> I consider installing such a device in my 2004 accord coupe. I live in
>> Chicago suburbs and winter can be harsh enough for this device to be
>> useful if your car is parked outside overnight.
>
>
>
>
> Cars are fine to at least -20F without any block heater at all. The
> primary usefulness for block heaters in the East is to help the interior
> warm up more quickly.
>
>
09-05-2008 | 11:05 PM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
Pszemol wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt it...
>>
>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>
> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
so what are your fears based on exactly?
>
>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with
>>> some of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
>>
>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>
> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent on a
> good compression and excellent battery charge and overal condition tend
> to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a lot of miles.
diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for your
criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly better than
the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt it...
>>
>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>
> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
so what are your fears based on exactly?
>
>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with
>>> some of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
>>
>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>
> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent on a
> good compression and excellent battery charge and overal condition tend
> to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a lot of miles.
diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for your
criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly better than
the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
09-06-2008 | 01:30 AM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 08:45:35 -0500, "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com>
wrote:
>"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
>news:ZImdneb7WrX7VV3VnZ2dnUVZ8sbinZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 15:11:05 -0500, "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"ecarecar" <ecarecar@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:w4ydnVz9F9pUnCLVnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@centuryte l.net...
>>>> Come on! Americans already use so little oil, why bother?
>>>
>>>Diesel fuel is more expensive in USA from the gasoline. It will be very
>>>hard
>>>to sell diesel car in USA especially in the northern states with strong
>>>winters.
>> Diesel is more expensive but the mileage from diesel autos is about
>> 30% greater than a similar gasolene fuel vehicle.
>
>If this is true, than it would make sense even with higher price per gallon
>:-)
>
>> The problem is
>> diesel engines cost more than gas engines. In Europe it is generally
>> considered that over 20,000 miles per year a diesel auto becomes
>> cheaper to run and own than a gas power vehicle.
>
>Does it take into the consideration lower price of diesel in Europe compared
>to petrol?
It depends which European country you are refering to. In some
countries it is marginally less expensive in others more. The
against unlead gasolene is of the order of 5%.
As diesel engined vehicles are much more efficient the fuel cost/mile
is considerably less than for similar gas powered vehicles. If you
take all costs opf ownership into consideration, including capital
cost, the case for a diesel engine auto depends upon annual mileage.
09-08-2008 | 02:41 PM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
>>>> it...
>>>
>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>
>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>
> so what are your fears based on exactly?
Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without the cat.
I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with
>>>> some of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
>>>
>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>>
>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent on a
>> good compression and excellent battery charge and overal condition tend
>> to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a lot of miles.
>
> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for your
> criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly better than
> the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel Kadett.
Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
todays diesel selling.
news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
>>>> it...
>>>
>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>
>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>
> so what are your fears based on exactly?
Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without the cat.
I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with
>>>> some of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
>>>
>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>>
>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent on a
>> good compression and excellent battery charge and overal condition tend
>> to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a lot of miles.
>
> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for your
> criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly better than
> the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel Kadett.
Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
todays diesel selling.
09-09-2008 | 12:25 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
Pszemol wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
>>>>> it...
>>>>
>>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>>
>>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>>
>> so what are your fears based on exactly?
>
> Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
> and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
three points:
1. a crappy old bus with mechanical injection is not a modern electronic
injection diesel.
2. even though you can "smell" stuff, the percentage of emissions from
that diesel are still considerably less than a gasoline engine. diesels
use excess air and higher compression so they get much more complete
combustion.
3. diesel fuel qualities vary considerably - especially on bulk
contracts to unsophisticated buyers like municipal bus fleets. the
quality they contract for and what gets delivered is seldom the same.
and quality affects burn.
> Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without the cat.
> I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
> engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
> these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
some modern diesels do have catalysts. they have soot separators too.
>
>>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel
>>>>> with some of the engine compression lost will have very bad
>>>>> memories :-)
>>>>
>>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>>>
>>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent
>>> on a good compression and excellent battery charge and overal
>>> condition tend to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a
>>> lot of miles.
>>
>> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for your
>> criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly better
>> than the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
>
> Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
rubbish.
> One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel Kadett.
> Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
> imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
> todays diesel selling.
so all this is based on someone else's alleged experience? with just
one vehicle? terrific.
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
>>>>> it...
>>>>
>>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>>
>>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>>
>> so what are your fears based on exactly?
>
> Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
> and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
three points:
1. a crappy old bus with mechanical injection is not a modern electronic
injection diesel.
2. even though you can "smell" stuff, the percentage of emissions from
that diesel are still considerably less than a gasoline engine. diesels
use excess air and higher compression so they get much more complete
combustion.
3. diesel fuel qualities vary considerably - especially on bulk
contracts to unsophisticated buyers like municipal bus fleets. the
quality they contract for and what gets delivered is seldom the same.
and quality affects burn.
> Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without the cat.
> I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
> engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
> these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
some modern diesels do have catalysts. they have soot separators too.
>
>>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel
>>>>> with some of the engine compression lost will have very bad
>>>>> memories :-)
>>>>
>>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>>>
>>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent
>>> on a good compression and excellent battery charge and overal
>>> condition tend to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a
>>> lot of miles.
>>
>> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for your
>> criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly better
>> than the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
>
> Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
rubbish.
> One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel Kadett.
> Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
> imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
> todays diesel selling.
so all this is based on someone else's alleged experience? with just
one vehicle? terrific.
09-09-2008 | 12:28 PM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:O-qdnYMrdLhSZ1jVnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
>>>>>> it...
>>>>>
>>>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>>>
>>>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>>>
>>> so what are your fears based on exactly?
>>
>> Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
>> and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
>
> three points:
>
> 1. a crappy old bus with mechanical injection is not a modern electronic
> injection diesel.
My whole argument is based on the experience with OLD diesels.
Doubts are based on past and current experience, not on future engines.
The old opel kadett is also far from "modern electronic injection diesel".
The same old mercedes passenger diesel engines made in 70's.
> 2. even though you can "smell" stuff, the percentage of emissions from
> that diesel are still considerably less than a gasoline engine. diesels
> use excess air and higher compression so they get much more complete
> combustion.
We are talking about my doubts, not describing results from the exhaust
gases analyzer. If you have access to such comparison I would like to see
it.
> 3. diesel fuel qualities vary considerably - especially on bulk contracts
> to unsophisticated buyers like municipal bus fleets. the quality they
> contract for and what gets delivered is seldom the same. and quality
> affects burn.
And why would the most important custommer got crappy fuel?
Our city air polution is dependent on the fuel buses burn...
They should be first in line to get clean fuel.
What diesel fuel do you expect will be available on cheapest
fuel sites for the average customer driving passenger diesel?
>> Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without the
>> cat.
>> I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
>> engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
>> these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
>
> some modern diesels do have catalysts. they have soot separators too.
I am sure "some" do... How about majority of them?
Are they maybe REQUIRED by law to have catalytic converters like gasoline
engines are?
If I buy TDI golf or passat today - will it have converter and soot
separator?
Probably not... Do they qualify as a "modern diesel engine" by your
standard?
>>>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with
>>>>>> some of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>>>>
>>>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent on
>>>> a good compression and excellent battery charge and overal condition
>>>> tend to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a lot of miles.
>>>
>>> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for your
>>> criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly better than
>>> the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
>>
>> Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
>
> rubbish.
Here is my way of thinking: Diesel battery has to work harder than gasoline
one.
The battery in a diesel car has to not only turn the engine (starter), which
is on itself harder than gasoline engine due to the higher compression but
also has to power glow plugs, not existing in the gasoline engines...
Is it rubbish? Would you care to elaborate?
>> One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel Kadett.
>> Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
>> imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
>> todays diesel selling.
>
> so all this is based on someone else's alleged experience?
> with just one vehicle? terrific.
No, my experience is not limited to this single car. This was just one
example I shared with you. Do not jump to conclusion too quickly...
news:O-qdnYMrdLhSZ1jVnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
>>>>>> it...
>>>>>
>>>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>>>
>>>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>>>
>>> so what are your fears based on exactly?
>>
>> Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
>> and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
>
> three points:
>
> 1. a crappy old bus with mechanical injection is not a modern electronic
> injection diesel.
My whole argument is based on the experience with OLD diesels.
Doubts are based on past and current experience, not on future engines.
The old opel kadett is also far from "modern electronic injection diesel".
The same old mercedes passenger diesel engines made in 70's.
> 2. even though you can "smell" stuff, the percentage of emissions from
> that diesel are still considerably less than a gasoline engine. diesels
> use excess air and higher compression so they get much more complete
> combustion.
We are talking about my doubts, not describing results from the exhaust
gases analyzer. If you have access to such comparison I would like to see
it.
> 3. diesel fuel qualities vary considerably - especially on bulk contracts
> to unsophisticated buyers like municipal bus fleets. the quality they
> contract for and what gets delivered is seldom the same. and quality
> affects burn.
And why would the most important custommer got crappy fuel?
Our city air polution is dependent on the fuel buses burn...
They should be first in line to get clean fuel.
What diesel fuel do you expect will be available on cheapest
fuel sites for the average customer driving passenger diesel?
>> Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without the
>> cat.
>> I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
>> engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
>> these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
>
> some modern diesels do have catalysts. they have soot separators too.
I am sure "some" do... How about majority of them?
Are they maybe REQUIRED by law to have catalytic converters like gasoline
engines are?
If I buy TDI golf or passat today - will it have converter and soot
separator?
Probably not... Do they qualify as a "modern diesel engine" by your
standard?
>>>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel with
>>>>>> some of the engine compression lost will have very bad memories :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>>>>
>>>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent on
>>>> a good compression and excellent battery charge and overal condition
>>>> tend to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a lot of miles.
>>>
>>> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for your
>>> criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly better than
>>> the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
>>
>> Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
>
> rubbish.
Here is my way of thinking: Diesel battery has to work harder than gasoline
one.
The battery in a diesel car has to not only turn the engine (starter), which
is on itself harder than gasoline engine due to the higher compression but
also has to power glow plugs, not existing in the gasoline engines...
Is it rubbish? Would you care to elaborate?
>> One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel Kadett.
>> Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
>> imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
>> todays diesel selling.
>
> so all this is based on someone else's alleged experience?
> with just one vehicle? terrific.
No, my experience is not limited to this single car. This was just one
example I shared with you. Do not jump to conclusion too quickly...
09-09-2008 | 11:13 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
Pszemol wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:O-qdnYMrdLhSZ1jVnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I
>>>>>>> doubt it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>>>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>>>>
>>>>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>>>>
>>>> so what are your fears based on exactly?
>>>
>>> Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
>>> and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
>>
>> three points:
>>
>> 1. a crappy old bus with mechanical injection is not a modern
>> electronic injection diesel.
>
> My whole argument is based on the experience with OLD diesels.
and you use that to condemn all MODERN diesels. that's dumb.
> Doubts are based on past and current experience, not on future engines.
you contradict yourself. see above.
> The old opel kadett is also far from "modern electronic injection diesel".
> The same old mercedes passenger diesel engines made in 70's.
see above.
>
>> 2. even though you can "smell" stuff, the percentage of emissions from
>> that diesel are still considerably less than a gasoline engine.
>> diesels use excess air and higher compression so they get much more
>> complete combustion.
>
> We are talking about my doubts, not describing results from the exhaust
> gases analyzer. If you have access to such comparison I would like to
> see it.
do you know what stoichiometry is? do you know the fuel/air ratio for
diesels?
>
>> 3. diesel fuel qualities vary considerably - especially on bulk
>> contracts to unsophisticated buyers like municipal bus fleets. the
>> quality they contract for and what gets delivered is seldom the same.
>> and quality affects burn.
>
> And why would the most important custommer got crappy fuel?
> Our city air polution is dependent on the fuel buses burn...
> They should be first in line to get clean fuel.
>
> What diesel fuel do you expect will be available on cheapest
> fuel sites for the average customer driving passenger diesel?
dude, you have no idea. no, municipal vehicle agencies are generally
some of the dumbest of the lot. so they contract for the supply of
such-and-such a quantity of fuel, with grades for cetane, sulfur, flash
point, etc. they may even have tests done on the first delivery. but
then, the supplier starts shipping the cheap crap, pocketing the price
difference, maybe sharing a little squeeze with some nosy municipal
depot guy if he starts bleating, and hey presto - you have dirty smelly
municipal buses. trust me on that one.
>
>>> Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without the
>>> cat.
>>> I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
>>> engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
>>> these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
>>
>> some modern diesels do have catalysts. they have soot separators too.
>
> I am sure "some" do... How about majority of them?
> Are they maybe REQUIRED by law to have catalytic converters like
> gasoline engines are?
> If I buy TDI golf or passat today - will it have converter and soot
> separator?
> Probably not... Do they qualify as a "modern diesel engine" by your
> standard?
dude, when are you going to use your internet connection to do some
homework? you throw out this underinformed crap, but so far, you
haven't checked a single fact.
>
>>>>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel
>>>>>>> with some of the engine compression lost will have very bad
>>>>>>> memories :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>>>>>
>>>>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent
>>>>> on a good compression and excellent battery charge and overal
>>>>> condition tend to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a
>>>>> lot of miles.
>>>>
>>>> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for
>>>> your criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly
>>>> better than the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
>>>
>>> Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
>>
>> rubbish.
>
> Here is my way of thinking: Diesel battery has to work harder than
> gasoline one.
> The battery in a diesel car has to not only turn the engine (starter),
> which
> is on itself harder than gasoline engine due to the higher compression but
> also has to power glow plugs, not existing in the gasoline engines...
> Is it rubbish? Would you care to elaborate?
yeah. diesel batteries last just fine. and it's because they're
spec'ed for the job. but you'd know that if you had direct personal
experience rather than speculating wildly.
>
>>> One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel
>>> Kadett.
>>> Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
>>> imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
>>> todays diesel selling.
>>
>> so all this is based on someone else's alleged experience?
>> with just one vehicle? terrific.
>
> No, my experience is not limited to this single car. This was just one
> example I shared with you. Do not jump to conclusion too quickly...
so you saw a diesel mercedes drive through your neighborhood one time?
terrific! that gives you sufficient experience to have an opinion on
/all/ diesels then!
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:O-qdnYMrdLhSZ1jVnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I
>>>>>>> doubt it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>>>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>>>>
>>>>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>>>>
>>>> so what are your fears based on exactly?
>>>
>>> Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
>>> and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
>>
>> three points:
>>
>> 1. a crappy old bus with mechanical injection is not a modern
>> electronic injection diesel.
>
> My whole argument is based on the experience with OLD diesels.
and you use that to condemn all MODERN diesels. that's dumb.
> Doubts are based on past and current experience, not on future engines.
you contradict yourself. see above.
> The old opel kadett is also far from "modern electronic injection diesel".
> The same old mercedes passenger diesel engines made in 70's.
see above.
>
>> 2. even though you can "smell" stuff, the percentage of emissions from
>> that diesel are still considerably less than a gasoline engine.
>> diesels use excess air and higher compression so they get much more
>> complete combustion.
>
> We are talking about my doubts, not describing results from the exhaust
> gases analyzer. If you have access to such comparison I would like to
> see it.
do you know what stoichiometry is? do you know the fuel/air ratio for
diesels?
>
>> 3. diesel fuel qualities vary considerably - especially on bulk
>> contracts to unsophisticated buyers like municipal bus fleets. the
>> quality they contract for and what gets delivered is seldom the same.
>> and quality affects burn.
>
> And why would the most important custommer got crappy fuel?
> Our city air polution is dependent on the fuel buses burn...
> They should be first in line to get clean fuel.
>
> What diesel fuel do you expect will be available on cheapest
> fuel sites for the average customer driving passenger diesel?
dude, you have no idea. no, municipal vehicle agencies are generally
some of the dumbest of the lot. so they contract for the supply of
such-and-such a quantity of fuel, with grades for cetane, sulfur, flash
point, etc. they may even have tests done on the first delivery. but
then, the supplier starts shipping the cheap crap, pocketing the price
difference, maybe sharing a little squeeze with some nosy municipal
depot guy if he starts bleating, and hey presto - you have dirty smelly
municipal buses. trust me on that one.
>
>>> Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without the
>>> cat.
>>> I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
>>> engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
>>> these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
>>
>> some modern diesels do have catalysts. they have soot separators too.
>
> I am sure "some" do... How about majority of them?
> Are they maybe REQUIRED by law to have catalytic converters like
> gasoline engines are?
> If I buy TDI golf or passat today - will it have converter and soot
> separator?
> Probably not... Do they qualify as a "modern diesel engine" by your
> standard?
dude, when are you going to use your internet connection to do some
homework? you throw out this underinformed crap, but so far, you
haven't checked a single fact.
>
>>>>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel
>>>>>>> with some of the engine compression lost will have very bad
>>>>>>> memories :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>>>>>
>>>>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent
>>>>> on a good compression and excellent battery charge and overal
>>>>> condition tend to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a
>>>>> lot of miles.
>>>>
>>>> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for
>>>> your criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly
>>>> better than the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
>>>
>>> Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
>>
>> rubbish.
>
> Here is my way of thinking: Diesel battery has to work harder than
> gasoline one.
> The battery in a diesel car has to not only turn the engine (starter),
> which
> is on itself harder than gasoline engine due to the higher compression but
> also has to power glow plugs, not existing in the gasoline engines...
> Is it rubbish? Would you care to elaborate?
yeah. diesel batteries last just fine. and it's because they're
spec'ed for the job. but you'd know that if you had direct personal
experience rather than speculating wildly.
>
>>> One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel
>>> Kadett.
>>> Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
>>> imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
>>> todays diesel selling.
>>
>> so all this is based on someone else's alleged experience?
>> with just one vehicle? terrific.
>
> No, my experience is not limited to this single car. This was just one
> example I shared with you. Do not jump to conclusion too quickly...
so you saw a diesel mercedes drive through your neighborhood one time?
terrific! that gives you sufficient experience to have an opinion on
/all/ diesels then!
09-10-2008 | 10:35 AM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:0rqdnUdKSKvxplrVnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:O-qdnYMrdLhSZ1jVnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>>>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
>>>>>>>> it...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>>>>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>>>>>
>>>>> so what are your fears based on exactly?
>>>>
>>>> Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
>>>> and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
>>>
>>> three points:
>>>
>>> 1. a crappy old bus with mechanical injection is not a modern electronic
>>> injection diesel.
>>
>> My whole argument is based on the experience with OLD diesels.
>
> and you use that to condemn all MODERN diesels. that's dumb.
I do not condemn, I doubt in their greeness or cleaness compared to gasoline
engines. Do not twist my words or assume something I haven'd said.
>> Doubts are based on past and current experience, not on future engines.
>
> you contradict yourself. see above.
It is only your wrong understanding, not contradiction.
>> The old opel kadett is also far from "modern electronic injection
>> diesel".
>> The same old mercedes passenger diesel engines made in 70's.
>
> see above.
see above.
>>> 2. even though you can "smell" stuff, the percentage of emissions from
>>> that diesel are still considerably less than a gasoline engine. diesels
>>> use excess air and higher compression so they get much more complete
>>> combustion.
>>
>> We are talking about my doubts, not describing results from the exhaust
>> gases analyzer. If you have access to such comparison I would like to see
>> it.
>
> do you know what stoichiometry is? do you know the fuel/air ratio for
> diesels?
I know what soichiometry is, I had chemistry in my middle school and
highschool, but I would rather see the results of the exhaust gases
analisis.
Do you have access to such comparison data?
You would think that excess oxygen in the exhaust gases would warrant
complete combustion, but judging by the amount of soot, which is
unburned carbon, something is causing INcomplete combustion... If soot
is apearing in the exhaust than I do not see why NOx or SOx would not.
Also, you stated that some diesel engines are equipped with catalityc
converters - they would not need it if the diesel engines was characterised
with complete combustion. So as you can see, I have at least two reasons
to believe that the chemical reactions on the combustion chambers of
diesel engines are NOT enough stoichiometric.
>>> 3. diesel fuel qualities vary considerably - especially on bulk
>>> contracts to unsophisticated buyers like municipal bus fleets. the
>>> quality they contract for and what gets delivered is seldom the same.
>>> and quality affects burn.
>>
>> And why would the most important custommer got crappy fuel?
>> Our city air polution is dependent on the fuel buses burn...
>> They should be first in line to get clean fuel.
>>
>> What diesel fuel do you expect will be available on cheapest
>> fuel sites for the average customer driving passenger diesel?
>
> dude, you have no idea. no, municipal vehicle agencies are generally some
> of the dumbest of the lot. so they contract for the supply of
> such-and-such a quantity of fuel, with grades for cetane, sulfur, flash
> point, etc. they may even have tests done on the first delivery. but
> then, the supplier starts shipping the cheap crap, pocketing the price
> difference, maybe sharing a little squeeze with some nosy municipal depot
> guy if he starts bleating, and hey presto - you have dirty smelly
> municipal buses. trust me on that one.
Dude, the same thing can be happening on any Clark or Speedway gas stations.
>>>> Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without the
>>>> cat.
>>>> I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
>>>> engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
>>>> these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
>>>
>>> some modern diesels do have catalysts. they have soot separators too.
>>
>> I am sure "some" do... How about majority of them?
>> Are they maybe REQUIRED by law to have catalytic converters like gasoline
>> engines are?
>> If I buy TDI golf or passat today - will it have converter and soot
>> separator?
>> Probably not... Do they qualify as a "modern diesel engine" by your
>> standard?
>
> dude, when are you going to use your internet connection to do some
> homework? you throw out this underinformed crap, but so far, you haven't
> checked a single fact.
Dude, when will you start the post written by people you try to discuss
with?
I have already stated I do not have time for an extensive research of
how diesel compares to gasoline engines in terms of exhaust gases...
>>>>>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel
>>>>>>>> with some of the engine compression lost will have very bad
>>>>>>>> memories :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent
>>>>>> on a good compression and excellent battery charge and overal
>>>>>> condition tend to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a
>>>>>> lot of miles.
>>>>>
>>>>> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for your
>>>>> criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly better
>>>>> than the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
>>>>
>>>> Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
>>>
>>> rubbish.
>>
>> Here is my way of thinking: Diesel battery has to work harder than
>> gasoline one.
>> The battery in a diesel car has to not only turn the engine (starter),
>> which
>> is on itself harder than gasoline engine due to the higher compression
>> but
>> also has to power glow plugs, not existing in the gasoline engines...
>> Is it rubbish? Would you care to elaborate?
>
> yeah. diesel batteries last just fine.
And this statement is based on your gut feeling or personal experience with
one car?
> and it's because they're spec'ed for the job.
> but you'd know that if you had direct personal experience rather than
> speculating wildly.
Batteries for diesel engines are not designed any differently...
They are just bigger.
>>>> One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel
>>>> Kadett.
>>>> Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
>>>> imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
>>>> todays diesel selling.
>>>
>>> so all this is based on someone else's alleged experience?
>>> with just one vehicle? terrific.
>>
>> No, my experience is not limited to this single car. This was just one
>> example I shared with you. Do not jump to conclusion too quickly...
>
> so you saw a diesel mercedes drive through your neighborhood one time?
> terrific! that gives you sufficient experience to have an opinion on
> /all/ diesels then!
Dude, you have no idea.
news:0rqdnUdKSKvxplrVnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:O-qdnYMrdLhSZ1jVnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>>>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I doubt
>>>>>>>> it...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>>>>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>>>>>
>>>>> so what are your fears based on exactly?
>>>>
>>>> Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
>>>> and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
>>>
>>> three points:
>>>
>>> 1. a crappy old bus with mechanical injection is not a modern electronic
>>> injection diesel.
>>
>> My whole argument is based on the experience with OLD diesels.
>
> and you use that to condemn all MODERN diesels. that's dumb.
I do not condemn, I doubt in their greeness or cleaness compared to gasoline
engines. Do not twist my words or assume something I haven'd said.
>> Doubts are based on past and current experience, not on future engines.
>
> you contradict yourself. see above.
It is only your wrong understanding, not contradiction.
>> The old opel kadett is also far from "modern electronic injection
>> diesel".
>> The same old mercedes passenger diesel engines made in 70's.
>
> see above.
see above.
>>> 2. even though you can "smell" stuff, the percentage of emissions from
>>> that diesel are still considerably less than a gasoline engine. diesels
>>> use excess air and higher compression so they get much more complete
>>> combustion.
>>
>> We are talking about my doubts, not describing results from the exhaust
>> gases analyzer. If you have access to such comparison I would like to see
>> it.
>
> do you know what stoichiometry is? do you know the fuel/air ratio for
> diesels?
I know what soichiometry is, I had chemistry in my middle school and
highschool, but I would rather see the results of the exhaust gases
analisis.
Do you have access to such comparison data?
You would think that excess oxygen in the exhaust gases would warrant
complete combustion, but judging by the amount of soot, which is
unburned carbon, something is causing INcomplete combustion... If soot
is apearing in the exhaust than I do not see why NOx or SOx would not.
Also, you stated that some diesel engines are equipped with catalityc
converters - they would not need it if the diesel engines was characterised
with complete combustion. So as you can see, I have at least two reasons
to believe that the chemical reactions on the combustion chambers of
diesel engines are NOT enough stoichiometric.
>>> 3. diesel fuel qualities vary considerably - especially on bulk
>>> contracts to unsophisticated buyers like municipal bus fleets. the
>>> quality they contract for and what gets delivered is seldom the same.
>>> and quality affects burn.
>>
>> And why would the most important custommer got crappy fuel?
>> Our city air polution is dependent on the fuel buses burn...
>> They should be first in line to get clean fuel.
>>
>> What diesel fuel do you expect will be available on cheapest
>> fuel sites for the average customer driving passenger diesel?
>
> dude, you have no idea. no, municipal vehicle agencies are generally some
> of the dumbest of the lot. so they contract for the supply of
> such-and-such a quantity of fuel, with grades for cetane, sulfur, flash
> point, etc. they may even have tests done on the first delivery. but
> then, the supplier starts shipping the cheap crap, pocketing the price
> difference, maybe sharing a little squeeze with some nosy municipal depot
> guy if he starts bleating, and hey presto - you have dirty smelly
> municipal buses. trust me on that one.
Dude, the same thing can be happening on any Clark or Speedway gas stations.
>>>> Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without the
>>>> cat.
>>>> I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
>>>> engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
>>>> these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
>>>
>>> some modern diesels do have catalysts. they have soot separators too.
>>
>> I am sure "some" do... How about majority of them?
>> Are they maybe REQUIRED by law to have catalytic converters like gasoline
>> engines are?
>> If I buy TDI golf or passat today - will it have converter and soot
>> separator?
>> Probably not... Do they qualify as a "modern diesel engine" by your
>> standard?
>
> dude, when are you going to use your internet connection to do some
> homework? you throw out this underinformed crap, but so far, you haven't
> checked a single fact.
Dude, when will you start the post written by people you try to discuss
with?
I have already stated I do not have time for an extensive research of
how diesel compares to gasoline engines in terms of exhaust gases...
>>>>>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel
>>>>>>>> with some of the engine compression lost will have very bad
>>>>>>>> memories :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad memories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less dependent
>>>>>> on a good compression and excellent battery charge and overal
>>>>>> condition tend to be more forgiving than old diesels engines with a
>>>>>> lot of miles.
>>>>>
>>>>> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for your
>>>>> criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly better
>>>>> than the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
>>>>
>>>> Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
>>>
>>> rubbish.
>>
>> Here is my way of thinking: Diesel battery has to work harder than
>> gasoline one.
>> The battery in a diesel car has to not only turn the engine (starter),
>> which
>> is on itself harder than gasoline engine due to the higher compression
>> but
>> also has to power glow plugs, not existing in the gasoline engines...
>> Is it rubbish? Would you care to elaborate?
>
> yeah. diesel batteries last just fine.
And this statement is based on your gut feeling or personal experience with
one car?
> and it's because they're spec'ed for the job.
> but you'd know that if you had direct personal experience rather than
> speculating wildly.
Batteries for diesel engines are not designed any differently...
They are just bigger.
>>>> One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel
>>>> Kadett.
>>>> Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
>>>> imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
>>>> todays diesel selling.
>>>
>>> so all this is based on someone else's alleged experience?
>>> with just one vehicle? terrific.
>>
>> No, my experience is not limited to this single car. This was just one
>> example I shared with you. Do not jump to conclusion too quickly...
>
> so you saw a diesel mercedes drive through your neighborhood one time?
> terrific! that gives you sufficient experience to have an opinion on
> /all/ diesels then!
Dude, you have no idea.
09-11-2008 | 12:19 AM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
Pszemol wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:0rqdnUdKSKvxplrVnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:O-qdnYMrdLhSZ1jVnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>>>>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I
>>>>>>>>> doubt it...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>>>>>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so what are your fears based on exactly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
>>>>> and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
>>>>
>>>> three points:
>>>>
>>>> 1. a crappy old bus with mechanical injection is not a modern
>>>> electronic injection diesel.
>>>
>>> My whole argument is based on the experience with OLD diesels.
>>
>> and you use that to condemn all MODERN diesels. that's dumb.
>
> I do not condemn, I doubt in their greeness or cleaness compared to
> gasoline engines. Do not twist my words or assume something I haven'd said.
>
>>> Doubts are based on past and current experience, not on future engines.
>>
>> you contradict yourself. see above.
>
> It is only your wrong understanding, not contradiction.
>
>>> The old opel kadett is also far from "modern electronic injection
>>> diesel".
>>> The same old mercedes passenger diesel engines made in 70's.
>>
>> see above.
>
>
> see above.
>
>>>> 2. even though you can "smell" stuff, the percentage of emissions
>>>> from that diesel are still considerably less than a gasoline
>>>> engine. diesels use excess air and higher compression so they get
>>>> much more complete combustion.
>>>
>>> We are talking about my doubts, not describing results from the exhaust
>>> gases analyzer. If you have access to such comparison I would like to
>>> see it.
>>
>> do you know what stoichiometry is? do you know the fuel/air ratio for
>> diesels?
>
> I know what soichiometry is, I had chemistry in my middle school and
> highschool, but I would rather see the results of the exhaust gases
> analisis.
> Do you have access to such comparison data?
>
> You would think that excess oxygen in the exhaust gases would warrant
> complete combustion, but judging by the amount of soot, which is
> unburned carbon, something is causing INcomplete combustion... If soot
> is apearing in the exhaust than I do not see why NOx or SOx would not.
> Also, you stated that some diesel engines are equipped with catalityc
> converters - they would not need it if the diesel engines was characterised
> with complete combustion. So as you can see, I have at least two reasons
> to believe that the chemical reactions on the combustion chambers of
> diesel engines are NOT enough stoichiometric.
here's a really dumbed down article that should help you stop guessing
wrong:
http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html
>
>>>> 3. diesel fuel qualities vary considerably - especially on bulk
>>>> contracts to unsophisticated buyers like municipal bus fleets. the
>>>> quality they contract for and what gets delivered is seldom the
>>>> same. and quality affects burn.
>>>
>>> And why would the most important custommer got crappy fuel?
>>> Our city air polution is dependent on the fuel buses burn...
>>> They should be first in line to get clean fuel.
>>>
>>> What diesel fuel do you expect will be available on cheapest
>>> fuel sites for the average customer driving passenger diesel?
>>
>> dude, you have no idea. no, municipal vehicle agencies are generally
>> some of the dumbest of the lot. so they contract for the supply of
>> such-and-such a quantity of fuel, with grades for cetane, sulfur,
>> flash point, etc. they may even have tests done on the first
>> delivery. but then, the supplier starts shipping the cheap crap,
>> pocketing the price difference, maybe sharing a little squeeze with
>> some nosy municipal depot guy if he starts bleating, and hey presto -
>> you have dirty smelly municipal buses. trust me on that one.
>
> Dude, the same thing can be happening on any Clark or Speedway gas
> stations.
>
>>>>> Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without
>>>>> the cat.
>>>>> I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
>>>>> engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
>>>>> these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
>>>>
>>>> some modern diesels do have catalysts. they have soot separators too.
>>>
>>> I am sure "some" do... How about majority of them?
>>> Are they maybe REQUIRED by law to have catalytic converters like
>>> gasoline engines are?
>>> If I buy TDI golf or passat today - will it have converter and soot
>>> separator?
>>> Probably not... Do they qualify as a "modern diesel engine" by your
>>> standard?
>>
>> dude, when are you going to use your internet connection to do some
>> homework? you throw out this underinformed crap, but so far, you
>> haven't checked a single fact.
>
> Dude, when will you start the post written by people you try to discuss
> with?
> I have already stated I do not have time for an extensive research of
> how diesel compares to gasoline engines in terms of exhaust gases...
and it shows! the mystifyingly contradictory bit though is how you seem
to have the time to keep on proving it.
>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel
>>>>>>>>> with some of the engine compression lost will have very bad
>>>>>>>>> memories :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad
>>>>>>>> memories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less
>>>>>>> dependent on a good compression and excellent battery charge and
>>>>>>> overal condition tend to be more forgiving than old diesels
>>>>>>> engines with a lot of miles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for
>>>>>> your criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly
>>>>>> better than the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
>>>>>
>>>>> Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
>>>>
>>>> rubbish.
>>>
>>> Here is my way of thinking: Diesel battery has to work harder than
>>> gasoline one.
>>> The battery in a diesel car has to not only turn the engine
>>> (starter), which
>>> is on itself harder than gasoline engine due to the higher
>>> compression but
>>> also has to power glow plugs, not existing in the gasoline engines...
>>> Is it rubbish? Would you care to elaborate?
>>
>> yeah. diesel batteries last just fine.
>
> And this statement is based on your gut feeling or personal experience
> with one car?
er, no.
>
>> and it's because they're spec'ed for the job.
>> but you'd know that if you had direct personal experience rather than
>> speculating wildly.
>
> Batteries for diesel engines are not designed any differently...
> They are just bigger.
wrong guess.
>
>>>>> One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel
>>>>> Kadett.
>>>>> Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
>>>>> imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
>>>>> todays diesel selling.
>>>>
>>>> so all this is based on someone else's alleged experience?
>>>> with just one vehicle? terrific.
>>>
>>> No, my experience is not limited to this single car. This was just one
>>> example I shared with you. Do not jump to conclusion too quickly...
>>
>> so you saw a diesel mercedes drive through your neighborhood one time?
>> terrific! that gives you sufficient experience to have an opinion on
>> /all/ diesels then!
>
> Dude, you have no idea.
stop wasting time demonstrating what you don't know and use it to
edumacate yourself.
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:0rqdnUdKSKvxplrVnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:O-qdnYMrdLhSZ1jVnZ2dnUVZ_qjinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Zu6dnd_4f6YqblzVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>> Pszemol wrote:
>>>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:XcudnRFmEpkyoVzVnZ2dnUVZ_rfinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>>>> I do not see how diesel is any greener than a regular gasoline...
>>>>>>>>> Do they really have lower emissions than gasoline engines? I
>>>>>>>>> doubt it...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you "doubt" it??? why don't you bother to look this stuff up?
>>>>>>>> you have a computer and an internet connection!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I do not have the time on my hands to do the research right now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so what are your fears based on exactly?
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, when I follow a bus on my bicycle I can smell the exhaust gases
>>>>> and see the soot coming from the exhaust pipe with a naked eye...
>>>>
>>>> three points:
>>>>
>>>> 1. a crappy old bus with mechanical injection is not a modern
>>>> electronic injection diesel.
>>>
>>> My whole argument is based on the experience with OLD diesels.
>>
>> and you use that to condemn all MODERN diesels. that's dumb.
>
> I do not condemn, I doubt in their greeness or cleaness compared to
> gasoline engines. Do not twist my words or assume something I haven'd said.
>
>>> Doubts are based on past and current experience, not on future engines.
>>
>> you contradict yourself. see above.
>
> It is only your wrong understanding, not contradiction.
>
>>> The old opel kadett is also far from "modern electronic injection
>>> diesel".
>>> The same old mercedes passenger diesel engines made in 70's.
>>
>> see above.
>
>
> see above.
>
>>>> 2. even though you can "smell" stuff, the percentage of emissions
>>>> from that diesel are still considerably less than a gasoline
>>>> engine. diesels use excess air and higher compression so they get
>>>> much more complete combustion.
>>>
>>> We are talking about my doubts, not describing results from the exhaust
>>> gases analyzer. If you have access to such comparison I would like to
>>> see it.
>>
>> do you know what stoichiometry is? do you know the fuel/air ratio for
>> diesels?
>
> I know what soichiometry is, I had chemistry in my middle school and
> highschool, but I would rather see the results of the exhaust gases
> analisis.
> Do you have access to such comparison data?
>
> You would think that excess oxygen in the exhaust gases would warrant
> complete combustion, but judging by the amount of soot, which is
> unburned carbon, something is causing INcomplete combustion... If soot
> is apearing in the exhaust than I do not see why NOx or SOx would not.
> Also, you stated that some diesel engines are equipped with catalityc
> converters - they would not need it if the diesel engines was characterised
> with complete combustion. So as you can see, I have at least two reasons
> to believe that the chemical reactions on the combustion chambers of
> diesel engines are NOT enough stoichiometric.
here's a really dumbed down article that should help you stop guessing
wrong:
http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html
>
>>>> 3. diesel fuel qualities vary considerably - especially on bulk
>>>> contracts to unsophisticated buyers like municipal bus fleets. the
>>>> quality they contract for and what gets delivered is seldom the
>>>> same. and quality affects burn.
>>>
>>> And why would the most important custommer got crappy fuel?
>>> Our city air polution is dependent on the fuel buses burn...
>>> They should be first in line to get clean fuel.
>>>
>>> What diesel fuel do you expect will be available on cheapest
>>> fuel sites for the average customer driving passenger diesel?
>>
>> dude, you have no idea. no, municipal vehicle agencies are generally
>> some of the dumbest of the lot. so they contract for the supply of
>> such-and-such a quantity of fuel, with grades for cetane, sulfur,
>> flash point, etc. they may even have tests done on the first
>> delivery. but then, the supplier starts shipping the cheap crap,
>> pocketing the price difference, maybe sharing a little squeeze with
>> some nosy municipal depot guy if he starts bleating, and hey presto -
>> you have dirty smelly municipal buses. trust me on that one.
>
> Dude, the same thing can be happening on any Clark or Speedway gas
> stations.
>
>>>>> Smell is worse than from the very old gasoline engine car without
>>>>> the cat.
>>>>> I would need to read how people are managing polution from diesel
>>>>> engines in a modern cars. Catalyser would get clogged with soot on
>>>>> these cars so in most cases diesel cars run without it...
>>>>
>>>> some modern diesels do have catalysts. they have soot separators too.
>>>
>>> I am sure "some" do... How about majority of them?
>>> Are they maybe REQUIRED by law to have catalytic converters like
>>> gasoline engines are?
>>> If I buy TDI golf or passat today - will it have converter and soot
>>> separator?
>>> Probably not... Do they qualify as a "modern diesel engine" by your
>>> standard?
>>
>> dude, when are you going to use your internet connection to do some
>> homework? you throw out this underinformed crap, but so far, you
>> haven't checked a single fact.
>
> Dude, when will you start the post written by people you try to discuss
> with?
> I have already stated I do not have time for an extensive research of
> how diesel compares to gasoline engines in terms of exhaust gases...
and it shows! the mystifyingly contradictory bit though is how you seem
to have the time to keep on proving it.
>
>>>>>>>>> Maybe they are, but anybody owning in the past an older diesel
>>>>>>>>> with some of the engine compression lost will have very bad
>>>>>>>>> memories :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> anybody with /any/ poorly maintained vehicle will have bad
>>>>>>>> memories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> True, but gasoline engines with their starting being less
>>>>>>> dependent on a good compression and excellent battery charge and
>>>>>>> overal condition tend to be more forgiving than old diesels
>>>>>>> engines with a lot of miles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> diesels typically last /much/ better than gasoline engines so for
>>>>>> your criteria to be true, the engine will have been significantly
>>>>>> better than the gasoline engine at the same mileage...
>>>>>
>>>>> Engines might last longer, but batteries last much shorter... :-)
>>>>
>>>> rubbish.
>>>
>>> Here is my way of thinking: Diesel battery has to work harder than
>>> gasoline one.
>>> The battery in a diesel car has to not only turn the engine
>>> (starter), which
>>> is on itself harder than gasoline engine due to the higher
>>> compression but
>>> also has to power glow plugs, not existing in the gasoline engines...
>>> Is it rubbish? Would you care to elaborate?
>>
>> yeah. diesel batteries last just fine.
>
> And this statement is based on your gut feeling or personal experience
> with one car?
er, no.
>
>> and it's because they're spec'ed for the job.
>> but you'd know that if you had direct personal experience rather than
>> speculating wildly.
>
> Batteries for diesel engines are not designed any differently...
> They are just bigger.
wrong guess.
>
>>>>> One of my friends back in Europe owned diesel version of the Opel
>>>>> Kadett.
>>>>> Tons of problems with this diesel... Horrible memories, bad experience
>>>>> imprinted in the minds of people owning such diesel could influence
>>>>> todays diesel selling.
>>>>
>>>> so all this is based on someone else's alleged experience?
>>>> with just one vehicle? terrific.
>>>
>>> No, my experience is not limited to this single car. This was just one
>>> example I shared with you. Do not jump to conclusion too quickly...
>>
>> so you saw a diesel mercedes drive through your neighborhood one time?
>> terrific! that gives you sufficient experience to have an opinion on
>> /all/ diesels then!
>
> Dude, you have no idea.
stop wasting time demonstrating what you don't know and use it to
edumacate yourself.
09-11-2008 | 09:49 AM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:qfqdnXmkQL0DAVXVnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> here's a really dumbed down article that should help you stop guessing
> wrong:
>
> http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html
Finally you were able to contribute with something usefull.
news:qfqdnXmkQL0DAVXVnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> here's a really dumbed down article that should help you stop guessing
> wrong:
>
> http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html
Finally you were able to contribute with something usefull.
09-11-2008 | 11:47 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
Pszemol wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:qfqdnXmkQL0DAVXVnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> here's a really dumbed down article that should help you stop guessing
>> wrong:
>>
>> http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html
>
> Finally you were able to contribute with something usefull.
not only can you not use google to save yourself public embarrassment
stating a bunch of underinformed untruths, you can't even use a
spell-checker on the word "useful"!!!
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:qfqdnXmkQL0DAVXVnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> here's a really dumbed down article that should help you stop guessing
>> wrong:
>>
>> http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html
>
> Finally you were able to contribute with something usefull.
not only can you not use google to save yourself public embarrassment
stating a bunch of underinformed untruths, you can't even use a
spell-checker on the word "useful"!!!
09-12-2008 | 09:20 AM
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:x4-dnXJzbIrwe1TVnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:qfqdnXmkQL0DAVXVnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> here's a really dumbed down article that should help you stop guessing
>>> wrong:
>>>
>>> http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html
>>
>> Finally you were able to contribute with something usefull.
>
> not only can you not use google to save yourself public embarrassment
> stating a bunch of underinformed untruths, you can't even use a
> spell-checker on the word "useful"!!!
You are so boring...
news:x4-dnXJzbIrwe1TVnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Pszemol wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:qfqdnXmkQL0DAVXVnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> here's a really dumbed down article that should help you stop guessing
>>> wrong:
>>>
>>> http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html
>>
>> Finally you were able to contribute with something usefull.
>
> not only can you not use google to save yourself public embarrassment
> stating a bunch of underinformed untruths, you can't even use a
> spell-checker on the word "useful"!!!
You are so boring...
09-12-2008 | 10:07 AM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: civic diesel
Pszemol wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:x4-dnXJzbIrwe1TVnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:qfqdnXmkQL0DAVXVnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> here's a really dumbed down article that should help you stop
>>>> guessing wrong:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html
>>>
>>> Finally you were able to contribute with something usefull.
>>
>> not only can you not use google to save yourself public embarrassment
>> stating a bunch of underinformed untruths, you can't even use a
>> spell-checker on the word "useful"!!!
>
> You are so boring...
>
er, actually, the " boring" bit is mistakenly taking the time to try
explaining stuff to someone that turns out not to want to know.
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:x4-dnXJzbIrwe1TVnZ2dnUVZ_qHinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Pszemol wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:qfqdnXmkQL0DAVXVnZ2dnUVZ_j6dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> here's a really dumbed down article that should help you stop
>>>> guessing wrong:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html
>>>
>>> Finally you were able to contribute with something usefull.
>>
>> not only can you not use google to save yourself public embarrassment
>> stating a bunch of underinformed untruths, you can't even use a
>> spell-checker on the word "useful"!!!
>
> You are so boring...
>
er, actually, the " boring" bit is mistakenly taking the time to try
explaining stuff to someone that turns out not to want to know.