I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket. One of the
symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow tank. I
also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after cranking it
with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling system
and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though the fan is
kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat housing
and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same result. Idle is
smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs, wires,
timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just replaced
the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down myself and
replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or advice
for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK, level across
the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of having a shop
go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater with a
lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings aren't
that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a compression
test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a bit. I plan
on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about another
30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:

> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket. One of the
> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow tank. I
> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after cranking it
> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling system
> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though the fan is
> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat housing
> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same result. Idle is
> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs, wires,
> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just replaced
> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down myself and
> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or advice
> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK, level across
> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of having a shop
> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater with a
> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings aren't
> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a compression
> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a bit. I plan
> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about another
> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.

Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of now.
Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out of it.
Go buy something else. Sheesh.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

 

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
newsan.2008.08.31.23.22.18.270781@moria2.lan...
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>
>> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket. One of
>> the
>> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow tank. I
>> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after cranking it
>> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling
>> system
>> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though the fan
>> is
>> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat
>> housing
>> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same result. Idle
>> is
>> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs, wires,
>> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just
>> replaced
>> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down myself
>> and
>> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or
>> advice
>> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK, level
>> across
>> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of having a
>> shop
>> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater with
>> a
>> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings
>> aren't
>> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a
>> compression
>> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a bit. I
>> plan
>> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about
>> another
>> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.
>
> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of now.
> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out of it.
> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>
Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it that I
hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school left. He has
an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We eventually want to get
him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right away. I think I can keep this
tin can going with some bailing wire, duct tape and a few more parts here
and there. If I had to pay for labor, it would definitely be out of the
question.

 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:31:21 -0700, Forrest wrote:

>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of now.
>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out of it.
>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.

> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it that I
> hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school left. He has
> an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We eventually want to get
> him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right away. I think I can keep this
> tin can going with some bailing wire, duct tape and a few more parts here
> and there. If I had to pay for labor, it would definitely be out of the
> question.

So, you're comfortable with your son driving 350-400 miles per week in a
car like this? You really think that's a good idea? How safe do you
think this car is? Get him a decent car now, before it's too late.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

 

"Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
newsan.2008.09.01.02.06.32.683916@moria2.lan...
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:31:21 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>
>>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of now.
>>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out of
>>> it.
>>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>
>> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it
>> that I
>> hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school left. He
>> has
>> an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We eventually want to get
>> him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right away. I think I can keep
>> this
>> tin can going with some bailing wire, duct tape and a few more parts here
>> and there. If I had to pay for labor, it would definitely be out of the
>> question.
>
> So, you're comfortable with your son driving 350-400 miles per week in a
> car like this? You really think that's a good idea? How safe do you
> think this car is? Get him a decent car now, before it's too late.

No worries, mate. He has a birthday coming up in a few months and I'm
getting him some seat belts.

 

Forrest wrote:
> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
> newsan.2008.08.31.23.22.18.270781@moria2.lan...
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>>
>>> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket. One of
>>> the
>>> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow tank. I
>>> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after cranking it
>>> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling
>>> system
>>> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though the fan
>>> is
>>> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat
>>> housing
>>> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same result. Idle
>>> is
>>> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs, wires,
>>> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just
>>> replaced
>>> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down myself
>>> and
>>> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or
>>> advice
>>> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK, level
>>> across
>>> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of having a
>>> shop
>>> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater with
>>> a
>>> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings
>>> aren't
>>> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a
>>> compression
>>> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a bit. I
>>> plan
>>> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about
>>> another
>>> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.
>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of now.
>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out of it.
>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>>
> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it that I
> hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school left. He has
> an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We eventually want to get
> him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right away. I think I can keep this
> tin can going with some bailing wire, duct tape and a few more parts here
> and there. If I had to pay for labor, it would definitely be out of the
> question.
>
>

that's dan's response to everything here - ignore him.

re fixing the gasket, the parts are cheap, but it takes a while. use
gasket remover rather than abrasives to clean the head and block. if
it's flat, do not machine it. google this group for my highly biased
opinions on this subject.

 

On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:52:48 -0700, Forrest wrote:

>> So, you're comfortable with your son driving 350-400 miles per week in a
>> car like this? You really think that's a good idea? How safe do you
>> think this car is? Get him a decent car now, before it's too late.

> No worries, mate. He has a birthday coming up in a few months and I'm
> getting him some seat belts.

Yeah, real funny. You should be ashamed of yourself.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org

 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:itydncBYzOSLniHVnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Forrest wrote:
>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>> newsan.2008.08.31.23.22.18.270781@moria2.lan...
>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket. One
>>>> of the
>>>> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow tank.
>>>> I
>>>> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after cranking
>>>> it
>>>> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling
>>>> system
>>>> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though the
>>>> fan is
>>>> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat
>>>> housing
>>>> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same result.
>>>> Idle is
>>>> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs, wires,
>>>> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just
>>>> replaced
>>>> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down myself
>>>> and
>>>> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or
>>>> advice
>>>> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK, level
>>>> across
>>>> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of having a
>>>> shop
>>>> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater
>>>> with a
>>>> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings
>>>> aren't
>>>> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a
>>>> compression
>>>> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a bit. I
>>>> plan
>>>> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about
>>>> another
>>>> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.
>>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of now.
>>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out of
>>> it.
>>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>>>
>> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it
>> that I hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school
>> left. He has an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We
>> eventually want to get him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right
>> away. I think I can keep this tin can going with some bailing wire, duct
>> tape and a few more parts here and there. If I had to pay for labor, it
>> would definitely be out of the question.
>
> that's dan's response to everything here - ignore him.
>
> re fixing the gasket, the parts are cheap, but it takes a while. use
> gasket remover rather than abrasives to clean the head and block. if it's
> flat, do not machine it. google this group for my highly biased opinions
> on this subject.


Thanks for the reply, Jim. I Googled your posts and found them very
informative. I tore the front end of the engine apart last night. I'm now
trying to figure out how to get the intake side off. Lots of fun. I snapped
a bunch of pictures with the digital camera, just in case my memory fails
me. I have a photographic memory ... it just runs out of film now and then.
Question about coolant in oil : Will it always turn milky or can the
coolant or water dilute it without showing a change, other than being
thinner? This car has always been an oil leaker and my son adds some every
day. He told me last night that he thinks that the level has actually risen
on its own a few times. Now he tells me .. oh well.
I wonder if he may have added too much or at least more than he thought he
was, by checking the dipstick before the oil had a chance to get down to the
pan. I'm wondering if the lower part of the engine has suffered damage from
diluted oil. No milkiness. I'll post about the head condition when I get it
off. Guess I'll put in a few more hours this evening.

 

Forrest wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:itydncBYzOSLniHVnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Forrest wrote:
>>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>>> newsan.2008.08.31.23.22.18.270781@moria2.lan...
>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket. One
>>>>> of the
>>>>> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow tank.
>>>>> I
>>>>> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after cranking
>>>>> it
>>>>> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling
>>>>> system
>>>>> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though the
>>>>> fan is
>>>>> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat
>>>>> housing
>>>>> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same result.
>>>>> Idle is
>>>>> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs, wires,
>>>>> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just
>>>>> replaced
>>>>> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down myself
>>>>> and
>>>>> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or
>>>>> advice
>>>>> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK, level
>>>>> across
>>>>> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of having a
>>>>> shop
>>>>> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater
>>>>> with a
>>>>> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings
>>>>> aren't
>>>>> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a
>>>>> compression
>>>>> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a bit. I
>>>>> plan
>>>>> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about
>>>>> another
>>>>> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.
>>>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of now.
>>>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out of
>>>> it.
>>>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>>>>
>>> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it
>>> that I hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school
>>> left. He has an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We
>>> eventually want to get him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right
>>> away. I think I can keep this tin can going with some bailing wire, duct
>>> tape and a few more parts here and there. If I had to pay for labor, it
>>> would definitely be out of the question.
>> that's dan's response to everything here - ignore him.
>>
>> re fixing the gasket, the parts are cheap, but it takes a while. use
>> gasket remover rather than abrasives to clean the head and block. if it's
>> flat, do not machine it. google this group for my highly biased opinions
>> on this subject.
>
>
> Thanks for the reply, Jim. I Googled your posts and found them very
> informative. I tore the front end of the engine apart last night. I'm now
> trying to figure out how to get the intake side off. Lots of fun. I snapped
> a bunch of pictures with the digital camera, just in case my memory fails
> me. I have a photographic memory ... it just runs out of film now and then.
> Question about coolant in oil : Will it always turn milky or can the
> coolant or water dilute it without showing a change, other than being
> thinner? This car has always been an oil leaker and my son adds some every
> day. He told me last night that he thinks that the level has actually risen
> on its own a few times. Now he tells me .. oh well.

that would be a classic leak symptom, but i've not seen a honda and it
would /definitely/ be accompanied by "mayonnaise" as the oil and water mix.


> I wonder if he may have added too much or at least more than he thought he
> was, by checking the dipstick before the oil had a chance to get down to the
> pan.

more likely.


> I'm wondering if the lower part of the engine has suffered damage from
> diluted oil. No milkiness. I'll post about the head condition when I get it
> off. Guess I'll put in a few more hours this evening.

you'll find out!

re: leaks, mechanical issues aside, the brand of oil you use matters.
my 89 civic used to run oil out of the main seal so it would literally
drip onto the exhaust and shroud you in smoke at traffic lights. that
was with cheapo ford brand oil. having bought all the seals, i decided
to flush my engine with some castrol, just because i had some laying
about the garage, for a couple of weeks before performing surgery. then
when i got down to business, no leaks! i cleaned it up, waited a couple
more weeks, still no leaks. bottom line, superior seal conditioners in
superior oil stopped it. i never did the seals and that's nearly 5
years and 75k miles ago. still doesn't leak.

 

Forrest wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:itydncBYzOSLniHVnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Forrest wrote:
>>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>>> newsan.2008.08.31.23.22.18.270781@moria2.lan...
>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket. One
>>>>> of the
>>>>> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow tank.
>>>>> I
>>>>> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after cranking
>>>>> it
>>>>> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling
>>>>> system
>>>>> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though the
>>>>> fan is
>>>>> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat
>>>>> housing
>>>>> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same result.
>>>>> Idle is
>>>>> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs, wires,
>>>>> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just
>>>>> replaced
>>>>> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down myself
>>>>> and
>>>>> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or
>>>>> advice
>>>>> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK, level
>>>>> across
>>>>> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of having a
>>>>> shop
>>>>> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater
>>>>> with a
>>>>> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings
>>>>> aren't
>>>>> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a
>>>>> compression
>>>>> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a bit. I
>>>>> plan
>>>>> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about
>>>>> another
>>>>> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.
>>>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of now.
>>>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out of
>>>> it.
>>>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>>>>
>>> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it
>>> that I hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school
>>> left. He has an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We
>>> eventually want to get him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right
>>> away. I think I can keep this tin can going with some bailing wire, duct
>>> tape and a few more parts here and there. If I had to pay for labor, it
>>> would definitely be out of the question.
>> that's dan's response to everything here - ignore him.
>>
>> re fixing the gasket, the parts are cheap, but it takes a while. use
>> gasket remover rather than abrasives to clean the head and block. if it's
>> flat, do not machine it. google this group for my highly biased opinions
>> on this subject.
>
>
> Thanks for the reply, Jim. I Googled your posts and found them very
> informative. I tore the front end of the engine apart last night. I'm now
> trying to figure out how to get the intake side off.

forgot to say:

there's a bolt you need to do from underneath.... piece of cake if you
go under the car and look straight up.


> Lots of fun. I snapped
> a bunch of pictures with the digital camera, just in case my memory fails
> me. I have a photographic memory ... it just runs out of film now and then.
> Question about coolant in oil : Will it always turn milky or can the
> coolant or water dilute it without showing a change, other than being
> thinner? This car has always been an oil leaker and my son adds some every
> day. He told me last night that he thinks that the level has actually risen
> on its own a few times. Now he tells me .. oh well.
> I wonder if he may have added too much or at least more than he thought he
> was, by checking the dipstick before the oil had a chance to get down to the
> pan. I'm wondering if the lower part of the engine has suffered damage from
> diluted oil. No milkiness. I'll post about the head condition when I get it
> off. Guess I'll put in a few more hours this evening.
>
>

 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:H_KdnZxgEdi5JCHVnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Forrest wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:itydncBYzOSLniHVnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> Forrest wrote:
>>>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> newsan.2008.08.31.23.22.18.270781@moria2.lan...
>>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket. One
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow
>>>>>> tank. I
>>>>>> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after
>>>>>> cranking it
>>>>>> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though the
>>>>>> fan is
>>>>>> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat
>>>>>> housing
>>>>>> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same result.
>>>>>> Idle is
>>>>>> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs,
>>>>>> wires,
>>>>>> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just
>>>>>> replaced
>>>>>> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down
>>>>>> myself and
>>>>>> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or
>>>>>> advice
>>>>>> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK, level
>>>>>> across
>>>>>> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of having
>>>>>> a shop
>>>>>> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater
>>>>>> with a
>>>>>> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings
>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a
>>>>>> compression
>>>>>> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a bit.
>>>>>> I plan
>>>>>> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.
>>>>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of now.
>>>>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out of
>>>>> it.
>>>>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>>>>>
>>>> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it
>>>> that I hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school
>>>> left. He has an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We
>>>> eventually want to get him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right
>>>> away. I think I can keep this tin can going with some bailing wire,
>>>> duct tape and a few more parts here and there. If I had to pay for
>>>> labor, it would definitely be out of the question.
>>> that's dan's response to everything here - ignore him.
>>>
>>> re fixing the gasket, the parts are cheap, but it takes a while. use
>>> gasket remover rather than abrasives to clean the head and block. if
>>> it's flat, do not machine it. google this group for my highly biased
>>> opinions on this subject.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the reply, Jim. I Googled your posts and found them very
>> informative. I tore the front end of the engine apart last night. I'm now
>> trying to figure out how to get the intake side off.
>
> forgot to say:
>
> there's a bolt you need to do from underneath.... piece of cake if you go
> under the car and look straight up.
>
>
>> Lots of fun. I snapped a bunch of pictures with the digital camera, just
>> in case my memory fails me. I have a photographic memory ... it just runs
>> out of film now and then.
>> Question about coolant in oil : Will it always turn milky or can the
>> coolant or water dilute it without showing a change, other than being
>> thinner? This car has always been an oil leaker and my son adds some
>> every day. He told me last night that he thinks that the level has
>> actually risen on its own a few times. Now he tells me .. oh well.
>> I wonder if he may have added too much or at least more than he thought
>> he was, by checking the dipstick before the oil had a chance to get down
>> to the pan. I'm wondering if the lower part of the engine has suffered
>> damage from diluted oil. No milkiness. I'll post about the head
>> condition when I get it off. Guess I'll put in a few more hours this
>> evening.



Well, got most of the "brush" cleared off of the engine and am down to the
head with the intake manifold still attached. I removed the two bolts under
the manifold mount. I also removed all of the crap associated with a timing
belt change. I debated about removing the rocker arm assembly or not. I
removed all of the bolts and tapped on it ..... not moving .... am I gonna
screw something up with this, probably needless move? I put the bolts back
in and torqued them. Almost 10 PM ... better shut things down or risk
attack by estrogen monster. I don't see any way to remove the intake
manifold without removing the head. Is that possible? The lower manifold
nuts are tucked way under there and underneath tubular parts of the
manifold. No way they can be easily removed, and forget torqueing.

Soooo ... are you supposed to remove the head with intake manifold attached?
Are you supposed to remove the head with the rocker arm assembly intact?

Tomorrow's job is to open Pandora's box.

 

Forrest wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:H_KdnZxgEdi5JCHVnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Forrest wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:itydncBYzOSLniHVnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> Forrest wrote:
>>>>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> newsan.2008.08.31.23.22.18.270781@moria2.lan...
>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket. One
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow
>>>>>>> tank. I
>>>>>>> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after
>>>>>>> cranking it
>>>>>>> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though the
>>>>>>> fan is
>>>>>>> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat
>>>>>>> housing
>>>>>>> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same result.
>>>>>>> Idle is
>>>>>>> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs,
>>>>>>> wires,
>>>>>>> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just
>>>>>>> replaced
>>>>>>> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down
>>>>>>> myself and
>>>>>>> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or
>>>>>>> advice
>>>>>>> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK, level
>>>>>>> across
>>>>>>> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of having
>>>>>>> a shop
>>>>>>> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater
>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings
>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a
>>>>>>> compression
>>>>>>> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a bit.
>>>>>>> I plan
>>>>>>> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about
>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.
>>>>>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of now.
>>>>>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out of
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it
>>>>> that I hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school
>>>>> left. He has an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We
>>>>> eventually want to get him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right
>>>>> away. I think I can keep this tin can going with some bailing wire,
>>>>> duct tape and a few more parts here and there. If I had to pay for
>>>>> labor, it would definitely be out of the question.
>>>> that's dan's response to everything here - ignore him.
>>>>
>>>> re fixing the gasket, the parts are cheap, but it takes a while. use
>>>> gasket remover rather than abrasives to clean the head and block. if
>>>> it's flat, do not machine it. google this group for my highly biased
>>>> opinions on this subject.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply, Jim. I Googled your posts and found them very
>>> informative. I tore the front end of the engine apart last night. I'm now
>>> trying to figure out how to get the intake side off.
>> forgot to say:
>>
>> there's a bolt you need to do from underneath.... piece of cake if you go
>> under the car and look straight up.
>>
>>
>>> Lots of fun. I snapped a bunch of pictures with the digital camera, just
>>> in case my memory fails me. I have a photographic memory ... it just runs
>>> out of film now and then.
>>> Question about coolant in oil : Will it always turn milky or can the
>>> coolant or water dilute it without showing a change, other than being
>>> thinner? This car has always been an oil leaker and my son adds some
>>> every day. He told me last night that he thinks that the level has
>>> actually risen on its own a few times. Now he tells me .. oh well.
>>> I wonder if he may have added too much or at least more than he thought
>>> he was, by checking the dipstick before the oil had a chance to get down
>>> to the pan. I'm wondering if the lower part of the engine has suffered
>>> damage from diluted oil. No milkiness. I'll post about the head
>>> condition when I get it off. Guess I'll put in a few more hours this
>>> evening.
>
>
>
> Well, got most of the "brush" cleared off of the engine and am down to the
> head with the intake manifold still attached. I removed the two bolts under
> the manifold mount. I also removed all of the crap associated with a timing
> belt change. I debated about removing the rocker arm assembly or not. I
> removed all of the bolts and tapped on it ..... not moving .... am I gonna
> screw something up with this, probably needless move?

pointless - leave the cam and rockers where they are.



> I put the bolts back
> in and torqued them. Almost 10 PM ... better shut things down or risk
> attack by estrogen monster. I don't see any way to remove the intake
> manifold without removing the head. Is that possible?

should remove the manifold /before/ the head. technically, i guess you
could leave it on, but it makes for bigger hunks of metal to be lifting
out of the bay in one piece...


> The lower manifold
> nuts are tucked way under there and underneath tubular parts of the
> manifold. No way they can be easily removed, and forget torqueing.

not true. lie on your back under the car and use a long extension on
your ratchet. easy access, easy removal.



>
> Soooo ... are you supposed to remove the head with intake manifold attached?
> Are you supposed to remove the head with the rocker arm assembly intact?
>
> Tomorrow's job is to open Pandora's box.

use a spirit level [in good condition!] and some feeler gauges to check
the head for flatness. yet again, do NOT use abrasives for cleanup, no
matter how tempting. that includes scotchbrite [that green pad used in
the kitchen] - it's one of the worst engine-killers out there.

if you don't have the honda manual, [not haynes which is CRAP], you may
be able to download parts online. check tegger.com for info too.
you'll need it to get the timing belt adjustment correct on reassembly -
there's a trick to it to make sure tension is correct.

also, check the condition of the head bolts. they're re-usable, but
some positions are "wet" and can get rusty threads. if that is the
case, visit a junk yard and get yourself some new ones from the "oily"
positions, and chase the block threads with a tap. this will allow you
to torque the head properly on replacement. use a bending beam torque
wrench, not clicker.

 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:EcmdnYk9c7TOpyDVnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Forrest wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:H_KdnZxgEdi5JCHVnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> Forrest wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:itydncBYzOSLniHVnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>> Forrest wrote:
>>>>>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> newsan.2008.08.31.23.22.18.270781@moria2.lan...
>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket.
>>>>>>>> One of the
>>>>>>>> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow
>>>>>>>> tank. I
>>>>>>>> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after
>>>>>>>> cranking it
>>>>>>>> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling
>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though
>>>>>>>> the fan is
>>>>>>>> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat
>>>>>>>> housing
>>>>>>>> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same
>>>>>>>> result. Idle is
>>>>>>>> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs,
>>>>>>>> wires,
>>>>>>>> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just
>>>>>>>> replaced
>>>>>>>> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down
>>>>>>>> myself and
>>>>>>>> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or
>>>>>>>> advice
>>>>>>>> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK,
>>>>>>>> level across
>>>>>>>> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of
>>>>>>>> having a shop
>>>>>>>> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater
>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings
>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a
>>>>>>>> compression
>>>>>>>> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a
>>>>>>>> bit. I plan
>>>>>>>> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about
>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.
>>>>>>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of
>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out
>>>>>>> of it.
>>>>>>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it
>>>>>> that I hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school
>>>>>> left. He has an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We
>>>>>> eventually want to get him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right
>>>>>> away. I think I can keep this tin can going with some bailing wire,
>>>>>> duct tape and a few more parts here and there. If I had to pay for
>>>>>> labor, it would definitely be out of the question.
>>>>> that's dan's response to everything here - ignore him.
>>>>>
>>>>> re fixing the gasket, the parts are cheap, but it takes a while. use
>>>>> gasket remover rather than abrasives to clean the head and block. if
>>>>> it's flat, do not machine it. google this group for my highly biased
>>>>> opinions on this subject.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the reply, Jim. I Googled your posts and found them very
>>>> informative. I tore the front end of the engine apart last night. I'm
>>>> now trying to figure out how to get the intake side off.
>>> forgot to say:
>>>
>>> there's a bolt you need to do from underneath.... piece of cake if you
>>> go under the car and look straight up.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lots of fun. I snapped a bunch of pictures with the digital camera,
>>>> just in case my memory fails me. I have a photographic memory ... it
>>>> just runs out of film now and then.
>>>> Question about coolant in oil : Will it always turn milky or can the
>>>> coolant or water dilute it without showing a change, other than being
>>>> thinner? This car has always been an oil leaker and my son adds some
>>>> every day. He told me last night that he thinks that the level has
>>>> actually risen on its own a few times. Now he tells me .. oh well.
>>>> I wonder if he may have added too much or at least more than he thought
>>>> he was, by checking the dipstick before the oil had a chance to get
>>>> down to the pan. I'm wondering if the lower part of the engine has
>>>> suffered damage from diluted oil. No milkiness. I'll post about the
>>>> head condition when I get it off. Guess I'll put in a few more hours
>>>> this evening.
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, got most of the "brush" cleared off of the engine and am down to
>> the head with the intake manifold still attached. I removed the two bolts
>> under the manifold mount. I also removed all of the crap associated with
>> a timing belt change. I debated about removing the rocker arm assembly or
>> not. I removed all of the bolts and tapped on it ..... not moving .... am
>> I gonna screw something up with this, probably needless move?
>
> pointless - leave the cam and rockers where they are.
>
>
>
>> I put the bolts back in and torqued them. Almost 10 PM ... better shut
>> things down or risk attack by estrogen monster. I don't see any way to
>> remove the intake manifold without removing the head. Is that possible?
>
> should remove the manifold /before/ the head. technically, i guess you
> could leave it on, but it makes for bigger hunks of metal to be lifting
> out of the bay in one piece...
>
>
>> The lower manifold nuts are tucked way under there and underneath tubular
>> parts of the manifold. No way they can be easily removed, and forget
>> torqueing.
>
> not true. lie on your back under the car and use a long extension on your
> ratchet. easy access, easy removal.
>
>
>
>>
>> Soooo ... are you supposed to remove the head with intake manifold
>> attached? Are you supposed to remove the head with the rocker arm
>> assembly intact?
>>
>> Tomorrow's job is to open Pandora's box.
>
> use a spirit level [in good condition!] and some feeler gauges to check
> the head for flatness. yet again, do NOT use abrasives for cleanup, no
> matter how tempting. that includes scotchbrite [that green pad used in
> the kitchen] - it's one of the worst engine-killers out there.
>
> if you don't have the honda manual, [not haynes which is CRAP], you may be
> able to download parts online. check tegger.com for info too. you'll need
> it to get the timing belt adjustment correct on reassembly - there's a
> trick to it to make sure tension is correct.
>
> also, check the condition of the head bolts. they're re-usable, but some
> positions are "wet" and can get rusty threads. if that is the case, visit
> a junk yard and get yourself some new ones from the "oily" positions, and
> chase the block threads with a tap. this will allow you to torque the
> head properly on replacement. use a bending beam torque wrench, not
> clicker.

Okily, Dokily, Neighbors,
I finally got to open up the box of chocolates. I never could figure out how
to get the intake manifold off, so just pulled them off together. I might
possibly have gotten the manifold off but would have had a hell of a time
bolting it back on after the head reinstallation. The only part that would
come off was the top of the rear part and did no good for removing the rest
of it. No biggie, it's apart and the head gasket looked as though it had
coolant leaks into a couple of cylinders (the end ones). The inner two both
have some carbon on the tops of the pistons, not much, but some. The end
pistons are clean on top. The gasket tore upon removal and is hard to tell
exactly what was leaking where. It looks to me as though the end cylinders
were both getting coolant into them. I've had white, snow like , coating on
the plugs and O2 sensors for some time and attributed it to a possible
vacuum leak or lean condition. Is that more probably just coolant residue?

I got started removing some of the old gasket material with a one inch putty
knife, being careful not to scratch.
I noticed that a lot of the coolant passageways were very restricted by the
size of the hole in the gasket. Does that mean that it's not the original
Honda gasket? And, while on that topic, I think Jim and others mentioned
that one should forget Felpro and any other aftermarket and just use the
Honda one ... for that reason.

How and where do you get a reliable straight edge? I have a couple of
aluminum straight edges but wouldn't trust them when it comes to thousandths
of an inch for looking for warp.

The only other engine that I have rebuilt was the 289, in my 66 Mustang. I
don't think it had more than 80K, when I got it, but it did have to be ridge
reamed. This puppy is smooth all the way up and down ... or at least from
what I've seen so far. Haven't turned it over at all, after pulling the
head.

I'll clean up both surfaces tomorrow and check for warped. Where to buy a
good straight edge for the job?


UP.SO. Jim, the bolts all came out oily, or at least not rusty. My back
still hurts.

 

Forrest wrote:
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:EcmdnYk9c7TOpyDVnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Forrest wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:H_KdnZxgEdi5JCHVnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> Forrest wrote:
>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:itydncBYzOSLniHVnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>> Forrest wrote:
>>>>>>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> newsan.2008.08.31.23.22.18.270781@moria2.lan...
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket.
>>>>>>>>> One of the
>>>>>>>>> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow
>>>>>>>>> tank. I
>>>>>>>>> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after
>>>>>>>>> cranking it
>>>>>>>>> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding cooling
>>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>>> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though
>>>>>>>>> the fan is
>>>>>>>>> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the thermostat
>>>>>>>>> housing
>>>>>>>>> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same
>>>>>>>>> result. Idle is
>>>>>>>>> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs,
>>>>>>>>> wires,
>>>>>>>>> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just
>>>>>>>>> replaced
>>>>>>>>> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down
>>>>>>>>> myself and
>>>>>>>>> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks or
>>>>>>>>> advice
>>>>>>>>> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK,
>>>>>>>>> level across
>>>>>>>>> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of
>>>>>>>>> having a shop
>>>>>>>>> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a beater
>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the rings
>>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a
>>>>>>>>> compression
>>>>>>>>> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a
>>>>>>>>> bit. I plan
>>>>>>>>> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting about
>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.
>>>>>>>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of
>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k out
>>>>>>>> of it.
>>>>>>>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to it
>>>>>>> that I hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of school
>>>>>>> left. He has an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week. We
>>>>>>> eventually want to get him a decent car but hate to "Use it up" right
>>>>>>> away. I think I can keep this tin can going with some bailing wire,
>>>>>>> duct tape and a few more parts here and there. If I had to pay for
>>>>>>> labor, it would definitely be out of the question.
>>>>>> that's dan's response to everything here - ignore him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> re fixing the gasket, the parts are cheap, but it takes a while. use
>>>>>> gasket remover rather than abrasives to clean the head and block. if
>>>>>> it's flat, do not machine it. google this group for my highly biased
>>>>>> opinions on this subject.
>>>>> Thanks for the reply, Jim. I Googled your posts and found them very
>>>>> informative. I tore the front end of the engine apart last night. I'm
>>>>> now trying to figure out how to get the intake side off.
>>>> forgot to say:
>>>>
>>>> there's a bolt you need to do from underneath.... piece of cake if you
>>>> go under the car and look straight up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Lots of fun. I snapped a bunch of pictures with the digital camera,
>>>>> just in case my memory fails me. I have a photographic memory ... it
>>>>> just runs out of film now and then.
>>>>> Question about coolant in oil : Will it always turn milky or can the
>>>>> coolant or water dilute it without showing a change, other than being
>>>>> thinner? This car has always been an oil leaker and my son adds some
>>>>> every day. He told me last night that he thinks that the level has
>>>>> actually risen on its own a few times. Now he tells me .. oh well.
>>>>> I wonder if he may have added too much or at least more than he thought
>>>>> he was, by checking the dipstick before the oil had a chance to get
>>>>> down to the pan. I'm wondering if the lower part of the engine has
>>>>> suffered damage from diluted oil. No milkiness. I'll post about the
>>>>> head condition when I get it off. Guess I'll put in a few more hours
>>>>> this evening.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, got most of the "brush" cleared off of the engine and am down to
>>> the head with the intake manifold still attached. I removed the two bolts
>>> under the manifold mount. I also removed all of the crap associated with
>>> a timing belt change. I debated about removing the rocker arm assembly or
>>> not. I removed all of the bolts and tapped on it ..... not moving .... am
>>> I gonna screw something up with this, probably needless move?
>> pointless - leave the cam and rockers where they are.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I put the bolts back in and torqued them. Almost 10 PM ... better shut
>>> things down or risk attack by estrogen monster. I don't see any way to
>>> remove the intake manifold without removing the head. Is that possible?
>> should remove the manifold /before/ the head. technically, i guess you
>> could leave it on, but it makes for bigger hunks of metal to be lifting
>> out of the bay in one piece...
>>
>>
>>> The lower manifold nuts are tucked way under there and underneath tubular
>>> parts of the manifold. No way they can be easily removed, and forget
>>> torqueing.
>> not true. lie on your back under the car and use a long extension on your
>> ratchet. easy access, easy removal.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Soooo ... are you supposed to remove the head with intake manifold
>>> attached? Are you supposed to remove the head with the rocker arm
>>> assembly intact?
>>>
>>> Tomorrow's job is to open Pandora's box.
>> use a spirit level [in good condition!] and some feeler gauges to check
>> the head for flatness. yet again, do NOT use abrasives for cleanup, no
>> matter how tempting. that includes scotchbrite [that green pad used in
>> the kitchen] - it's one of the worst engine-killers out there.
>>
>> if you don't have the honda manual, [not haynes which is CRAP], you may be
>> able to download parts online. check tegger.com for info too. you'll need
>> it to get the timing belt adjustment correct on reassembly - there's a
>> trick to it to make sure tension is correct.
>>
>> also, check the condition of the head bolts. they're re-usable, but some
>> positions are "wet" and can get rusty threads. if that is the case, visit
>> a junk yard and get yourself some new ones from the "oily" positions, and
>> chase the block threads with a tap. this will allow you to torque the
>> head properly on replacement. use a bending beam torque wrench, not
>> clicker.
>
> Okily, Dokily, Neighbors,
> I finally got to open up the box of chocolates. I never could figure out how
> to get the intake manifold off, so just pulled them off together. I might
> possibly have gotten the manifold off but would have had a hell of a time
> bolting it back on after the head reinstallation. The only part that would
> come off was the top of the rear part and did no good for removing the rest
> of it. No biggie, it's apart and the head gasket looked as though it had
> coolant leaks into a couple of cylinders (the end ones). The inner two both
> have some carbon on the tops of the pistons, not much, but some. The end
> pistons are clean on top. The gasket tore upon removal and is hard to tell
> exactly what was leaking where. It looks to me as though the end cylinders
> were both getting coolant into them. I've had white, snow like , coating on
> the plugs and O2 sensors for some time and attributed it to a possible
> vacuum leak or lean condition. Is that more probably just coolant residue?

yes.



>
> I got started removing some of the old gasket material with a one inch putty
> knife, being careful not to scratch.

use a solvent gasket remover to get rid of the last residues. aluminum
heads need a very fine surface finish and scratching is /bad/.


> I noticed that a lot of the coolant passageways were very restricted by the
> size of the hole in the gasket. Does that mean that it's not the original
> Honda gasket?

no, it means the flow is carefully controlled to achieve even
temperature distribution given that the coolant flows "sideways".


? And, while on that topic, I think Jim and others mentioned
> that one should forget Felpro and any other aftermarket and just use the
> Honda one ... for that reason.

stick with honda.


>
> How and where do you get a reliable straight edge? I have a couple of
> aluminum straight edges but wouldn't trust them when it comes to thousandths
> of an inch for looking for warp.

use a new spirit level - it's close enough. you're looking for warp,
not machining tolerance.



>
> The only other engine that I have rebuilt was the 289, in my 66 Mustang. I
> don't think it had more than 80K, when I got it, but it did have to be ridge
> reamed. This puppy is smooth all the way up and down ... or at least from
> what I've seen so far. Haven't turned it over at all, after pulling the
> head.

don't even consider it. and to ensure you don't need to in the future,
that's why you're being so careful to avoid abrasives.


>
> I'll clean up both surfaces tomorrow and check for warped. Where to buy a
> good straight edge for the job?

building supply store - see above.


>
>
> UP.SO. Jim, the bolts all came out oily, or at least not rusty.

good! it's still prudent to chase the bolt holes though - if dirty, the
head bolts can stick on tightening and that makes correct torque a total
crap shoot.


> My back
> still hurts.

should do the job more often then!

 

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:wOGdnXaHv7S_FCPVnZ2dnUVZ_tvinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Forrest wrote:
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:EcmdnYk9c7TOpyDVnZ2dnUVZ_tLinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> Forrest wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:H_KdnZxgEdi5JCHVnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>> Forrest wrote:
>>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:itydncBYzOSLniHVnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>> Forrest wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Dan C" <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> newsan.2008.08.31.23.22.18.270781@moria2.lan...
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:01:10 -0700, Forrest wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have an 89 Accord SEI that appears to have a blown head gasket.
>>>>>>>>>> One of the
>>>>>>>>>> symptoms is a constant stream of bubbles in the radiator overflow
>>>>>>>>>> tank. I
>>>>>>>>>> also noticed that the cooling system(cold) had pressure after
>>>>>>>>>> cranking it
>>>>>>>>>> with the coil wire disconnected. After filling and bleeding
>>>>>>>>>> cooling system
>>>>>>>>>> and letting idle, the gage will eventually go to hot, even though
>>>>>>>>>> the fan is
>>>>>>>>>> kicking in. I would then reloosen the bleed bolt in the
>>>>>>>>>> thermostat housing
>>>>>>>>>> and steam would come out. Do it all over again with the same
>>>>>>>>>> result. Idle is
>>>>>>>>>> smooth sometimes and rough others. New dist. cap, rotor, plugs,
>>>>>>>>>> wires,
>>>>>>>>>> timing belt, injectors, thermostat, radiator and cap. I also just
>>>>>>>>>> replaced
>>>>>>>>>> the struts and CV axles. Anywhooo .... I'm going to tear it down
>>>>>>>>>> myself and
>>>>>>>>>> replace it. I was just wondering if anybody had any tips, tricks
>>>>>>>>>> or advice
>>>>>>>>>> for me to help make the job easier. Also, if the head looks OK,
>>>>>>>>>> level across
>>>>>>>>>> the surface etc, should I go through the expense and hassle of
>>>>>>>>>> having a shop
>>>>>>>>>> go over it? What is a good brand of gasket kit? The car is a
>>>>>>>>>> beater with a
>>>>>>>>>> lot of new parts. It has 220,000 miles on it. I know that the
>>>>>>>>>> rings aren't
>>>>>>>>>> that great and really don't want to get into that job. I did a
>>>>>>>>>> compression
>>>>>>>>>> test last year and the "wet test" raised the compression quite a
>>>>>>>>>> bit. I plan
>>>>>>>>>> on keeping it about another couple of years and maybe putting
>>>>>>>>>> about another
>>>>>>>>>> 30,000 miles on it. Thanks in advance for any replies.
>>>>>>>>> Save yourself some aggravation, and get rid of that piece of
>>>>>>>>> now.
>>>>>>>>> Why around with a 20 year old car, just to get another 30k
>>>>>>>>> out of it.
>>>>>>>>> Go buy something else. Sheesh.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, you're probably right. It's just that I have done so much to
>>>>>>>> it that I hate to call it quits now. My son has two more years of
>>>>>>>> school left. He has an 85 mile round trip drive 4 or 5 days a week.
>>>>>>>> We eventually want to get him a decent car but hate to "Use it up"
>>>>>>>> right away. I think I can keep this tin can going with some bailing
>>>>>>>> wire, duct tape and a few more parts here and there. If I had to
>>>>>>>> pay for labor, it would definitely be out of the question.
>>>>>>> that's dan's response to everything here - ignore him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> re fixing the gasket, the parts are cheap, but it takes a while.
>>>>>>> use gasket remover rather than abrasives to clean the head and
>>>>>>> block. if it's flat, do not machine it. google this group for my
>>>>>>> highly biased opinions on this subject.
>>>>>> Thanks for the reply, Jim. I Googled your posts and found them very
>>>>>> informative. I tore the front end of the engine apart last night. I'm
>>>>>> now trying to figure out how to get the intake side off.
>>>>> forgot to say:
>>>>>
>>>>> there's a bolt you need to do from underneath.... piece of cake if
>>>>> you go under the car and look straight up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lots of fun. I snapped a bunch of pictures with the digital camera,
>>>>>> just in case my memory fails me. I have a photographic memory ... it
>>>>>> just runs out of film now and then.
>>>>>> Question about coolant in oil : Will it always turn milky or can the
>>>>>> coolant or water dilute it without showing a change, other than being
>>>>>> thinner? This car has always been an oil leaker and my son adds some
>>>>>> every day. He told me last night that he thinks that the level has
>>>>>> actually risen on its own a few times. Now he tells me .. oh well.
>>>>>> I wonder if he may have added too much or at least more than he
>>>>>> thought he was, by checking the dipstick before the oil had a chance
>>>>>> to get down to the pan. I'm wondering if the lower part of the engine
>>>>>> has suffered damage from diluted oil. No milkiness. I'll post about
>>>>>> the head condition when I get it off. Guess I'll put in a few more
>>>>>> hours this evening.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, got most of the "brush" cleared off of the engine and am down to
>>>> the head with the intake manifold still attached. I removed the two
>>>> bolts under the manifold mount. I also removed all of the crap
>>>> associated with a timing belt change. I debated about removing the
>>>> rocker arm assembly or not. I removed all of the bolts and tapped on it
>>>> ..... not moving .... am I gonna screw something up with this, probably
>>>> needless move?
>>> pointless - leave the cam and rockers where they are.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I put the bolts back in and torqued them. Almost 10 PM ... better
>>>> shut things down or risk attack by estrogen monster. I don't see any
>>>> way to remove the intake manifold without removing the head. Is that
>>>> possible?
>>> should remove the manifold /before/ the head. technically, i guess you
>>> could leave it on, but it makes for bigger hunks of metal to be lifting
>>> out of the bay in one piece...
>>>
>>>
>>>> The lower manifold nuts are tucked way under there and underneath
>>>> tubular parts of the manifold. No way they can be easily removed, and
>>>> forget torqueing.
>>> not true. lie on your back under the car and use a long extension on
>>> your ratchet. easy access, easy removal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Soooo ... are you supposed to remove the head with intake manifold
>>>> attached? Are you supposed to remove the head with the rocker arm
>>>> assembly intact?
>>>>
>>>> Tomorrow's job is to open Pandora's box.
>>> use a spirit level [in good condition!] and some feeler gauges to check
>>> the head for flatness. yet again, do NOT use abrasives for cleanup, no
>>> matter how tempting. that includes scotchbrite [that green pad used in
>>> the kitchen] - it's one of the worst engine-killers out there.
>>>
>>> if you don't have the honda manual, [not haynes which is CRAP], you may
>>> be able to download parts online. check tegger.com for info too. you'll
>>> need it to get the timing belt adjustment correct on reassembly -
>>> there's a trick to it to make sure tension is correct.
>>>
>>> also, check the condition of the head bolts. they're re-usable, but
>>> some positions are "wet" and can get rusty threads. if that is the
>>> case, visit a junk yard and get yourself some new ones from the "oily"
>>> positions, and chase the block threads with a tap. this will allow you
>>> to torque the head properly on replacement. use a bending beam torque
>>> wrench, not clicker.
>>
>> Okily, Dokily, Neighbors,
>> I finally got to open up the box of chocolates. I never could figure out
>> how to get the intake manifold off, so just pulled them off together. I
>> might possibly have gotten the manifold off but would have had a hell of
>> a time bolting it back on after the head reinstallation. The only part
>> that would come off was the top of the rear part and did no good for
>> removing the rest of it. No biggie, it's apart and the head gasket looked
>> as though it had coolant leaks into a couple of cylinders (the end ones).
>> The inner two both have some carbon on the tops of the pistons, not much,
>> but some. The end pistons are clean on top. The gasket tore upon removal
>> and is hard to tell exactly what was leaking where. It looks to me as
>> though the end cylinders were both getting coolant into them. I've had
>> white, snow like , coating on the plugs and O2 sensors for some time and
>> attributed it to a possible vacuum leak or lean condition. Is that more
>> probably just coolant residue?
>
> yes.
>
>
>
>>
>> I got started removing some of the old gasket material with a one inch
>> putty knife, being careful not to scratch.
>
> use a solvent gasket remover to get rid of the last residues. aluminum
> heads need a very fine surface finish and scratching is /bad/.
>
>
>> I noticed that a lot of the coolant passageways were very restricted by
>> the size of the hole in the gasket. Does that mean that it's not the
>> original Honda gasket?
>
> no, it means the flow is carefully controlled to achieve even temperature
> distribution given that the coolant flows "sideways".
>
>
> ? And, while on that topic, I think Jim and others mentioned
>> that one should forget Felpro and any other aftermarket and just use the
>> Honda one ... for that reason.
>
> stick with honda.
>
>
>>
>> How and where do you get a reliable straight edge? I have a couple of
>> aluminum straight edges but wouldn't trust them when it comes to
>> thousandths of an inch for looking for warp.
>
> use a new spirit level - it's close enough. you're looking for warp, not
> machining tolerance.
>
>
>
>>
>> The only other engine that I have rebuilt was the 289, in my 66 Mustang.
>> I don't think it had more than 80K, when I got it, but it did have to be
>> ridge reamed. This puppy is smooth all the way up and down ... or at
>> least from what I've seen so far. Haven't turned it over at all, after
>> pulling the head.
>
> don't even consider it. and to ensure you don't need to in the future,
> that's why you're being so careful to avoid abrasives.
>
>
>>
>> I'll clean up both surfaces tomorrow and check for warped. Where to buy a
>> good straight edge for the job?
>
> building supply store - see above.
>
>
>>
>>
>> UP.SO. Jim, the bolts all came out oily, or at least not rusty.
>
> good! it's still prudent to chase the bolt holes though - if dirty, the
> head bolts can stick on tightening and that makes correct torque a total
> crap shoot.
>
>
>> My back still hurts.
>
> should do the job more often then!

I got a couple of more hours in tonight. I worked on cleaning up the head's
gasket surface. Jim, you mentioned using :

"solvent gasket remover" to get rid of the last residues. aluminum
heads need a very fine surface finish and scratching is /bad/." ....

Do they sell a product that you like for it, or are you just referring to
using solvents? I gave acetone a try and didn't get much out of it. I found
a half can of lacquer thinner and used that on a rag over a wooden paint
stirring stick. Worked pretty well but have a lot of crap to get off of the
block still.

As far as I can tell, I don't think that the head is warped. The only
anomalies that I can see are, what appeared to be a couple of spots that
look a bit corroded next to the outer coolant ports. They might be just a
tad depressed there. Not much and not toward the cylinders. but outward.
I figure it's a go as is, after clean-up.

What about the white crap on the bottom of some valves? I was thinking of
rotating the camshaft for each cylinder to have a closed valve position, to
keep crud from getting under valve seats, and then using a drill brush to
clean them up a bit. Is that Kosher?