On 10 Jul 2005 04:13:39 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

>"mopa" <buttakid@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:1120963225.432249.93340@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:
>
>> Hi Tegger,
>>
>There are regional regulations involving oxygenation and reformulation.
>These tend to jack up prices. Then there are local tax laws.

I think most would agree that California has the worst of these.

In February, 1998 in San Diego the average was $1.29 according to
http://www.fueltracker.com/whitepaper8-98/gasfinal.html.

Cheap fuel was a largely ignored economic factor through most of the
90's. I remember news stories about gasoline prices below a dollar in
GA.

I don't personally recall anything less than $1.09 locally, but we
only have three supplying refineries and two companies running those,
so competition's not keen.

 

On 10 Jul 2005 04:13:39 GMT, "TeGGeR®" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:

>"mopa" <buttakid@hotmail.com> wrote in
>news:1120963225.432249.93340@f14g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com:
>
>> Hi Tegger,
>>
>There are regional regulations involving oxygenation and reformulation.
>These tend to jack up prices. Then there are local tax laws.

I think most would agree that California has the worst of these.

In February, 1998 in San Diego the average was $1.29 according to
http://www.fueltracker.com/whitepaper8-98/gasfinal.html.

Cheap fuel was a largely ignored economic factor through most of the
90's. I remember news stories about gasoline prices below a dollar in
GA.

I don't personally recall anything less than $1.09 locally, but we
only have three supplying refineries and two companies running those,
so competition's not keen.

 

"flobert" <nomail@here.com> wrote in message
news:43h5d1hlupf8gofp7a3pue34h9uifdn1ct@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 05:35:54 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>>I don't think I described it clearly. I've driven the 55 and 65 mph
>>stretches long enough to get several 5 minute readings on the display
>>(known
>>to be about 4% optimistic in our Prius) and compared those to the readings
>>from our 75 mph trips.
>
> Car computers are very variable. Nowhere is this better illustrated,
> than on Top gear a year or two ago, when the presenter drove an Audi
> A8 from london to edinburgh and back on a single tank (thats around
> 400 miles, in a 4l V8 twin turbo diesel). Not only did the computer
> say he was low on fuel too early, but that he'd completely run out
> around milton keynes, an hour or so short.
>
Computers in carbureted cars and older injected cars have a lot of variables
(especially analog transducers to measure air or fuel flow), but the
computers in modern injected cars are very accurate - more accurate than
calculating on the basis of one or two fill-ups. The ECU knows exactly how
long it is opening the injectors (how many crystal-controlled clock cycles),
and exactly how often. The distance comes from the VSS in exactly the same
accuracy the car's odometer has, so the only variables are fuel pressure and
injector lag. Prius owners have reported errors ranging from 2% to a shade
over 5% optimistic. (Interesting that none report their displays being
pessimistic.) I don't recall any saying their display was 10% or more off
the actual unless they were comparing a single tank based on when the pump
clicked off.

Mike

 

"flobert" <nomail@here.com> wrote in message
news:43h5d1hlupf8gofp7a3pue34h9uifdn1ct@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 05:35:54 -0700, "Michael Pardee"
> <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote:
>>I don't think I described it clearly. I've driven the 55 and 65 mph
>>stretches long enough to get several 5 minute readings on the display
>>(known
>>to be about 4% optimistic in our Prius) and compared those to the readings
>>from our 75 mph trips.
>
> Car computers are very variable. Nowhere is this better illustrated,
> than on Top gear a year or two ago, when the presenter drove an Audi
> A8 from london to edinburgh and back on a single tank (thats around
> 400 miles, in a 4l V8 twin turbo diesel). Not only did the computer
> say he was low on fuel too early, but that he'd completely run out
> around milton keynes, an hour or so short.
>
Computers in carbureted cars and older injected cars have a lot of variables
(especially analog transducers to measure air or fuel flow), but the
computers in modern injected cars are very accurate - more accurate than
calculating on the basis of one or two fill-ups. The ECU knows exactly how
long it is opening the injectors (how many crystal-controlled clock cycles),
and exactly how often. The distance comes from the VSS in exactly the same
accuracy the car's odometer has, so the only variables are fuel pressure and
injector lag. Prius owners have reported errors ranging from 2% to a shade
over 5% optimistic. (Interesting that none report their displays being
pessimistic.) I don't recall any saying their display was 10% or more off
the actual unless they were comparing a single tank based on when the pump
clicked off.

Mike

 

Jonathan Upright wrote:

> mopa wrote:
>
>> I was just reading this story about a carburetor that can make a car
>> run a thousand miles to a gallon, but the automobile industry paid off
>> the investors with millions of dollars to secure those patents, and
>> then burired those patents and never used the technology?
>>
>> But the thing is it would cost the automotive industry billions of
>> dollars in profits. Now thats very messed up, but I don't blame them.
>> They want money!
>>
>> What role does a carburetor have anyways? honestly, is there anyway a
>> carburetor could allow us to burn our gas slowly, so we could save gas,
>> but still be able to drive at our road speeds? and have gas last much
>> longer?
>>
>> Very interesting stuff
>>
>
> I don't see how a carburetor alone could increase mileage by that
> extraordinary amount, but I do know about, and have heard of, that the
> technology exists to make V8 engines get over 100 MPG, and like you
> said, the oil and auto industries paid off the inventors to keep them
> quiet. Where did you see this information about this carburetor?

Any fuel has a certain amount of stored potential energy. Burning that
fuel can release that much energy and no more. It takes a given amount
of energy to move a given amount of weight. A fancy carburetor can't
get more energy out of the fuel than it already contains, or reduce the
amount needed to move the car.

Usually you get a substantial amount less power out because of improper
combustion, and improved combustion can make for more efficient energy
production, but not THAT much more efficient.

> P.S. I read something in Car & Driver Magazine a few years ago that
> Honda invented a 4-cylinder engine that could produce 900HP, but there
> is no clutch or transmission that will bolt onto a 4-cylinder engine
> block that could handle that much power. Also, of course, there is no
> way it could be street-legal.

CHAMP cars (the open-wheel racers used by CART) use a 2.65 liter V-8 (8
cylinders, but barely more displacement than my Accord) that get around
750hp. They burn straight methanol tho...



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