Howdy... I've been going through my car trying to get it
ready for the dreaded emissions test at the end of the month.
The car has been running ok I suppose, but in checking it out,
I've found that it's running way too lean. I used the O2 sensor
to tell me this.. And the sensor seems ok, as it reacts to me
richening up the mix with propane, carb cleaner, etc..
Anyway, from testing with carb cleaner, I see indications that
the gasket at the base of the carb is leaking, even if it's tight.
I can go all along the lower section and get a bump in rpm
with the cleaner, and the rear of the carb seemed the worst.
One of those two vac lines may have been leaking. Anyway,
I still want to replace the gaskets being I've got it tore down this
far, but I've hit sort of a roadblock. Not too hard I suppose, but
wondering if there is some easy way...
The problem... How to get the carb clear to remove it. The rear
is hitting the metal vac lines, etc.. Mainly from the a/c idle up
device on the drivers side, and there may be some hang on the
other side too.. So do I need to remove the idle up solenoid, and also
the choke, etc? I was thinking the easy way would be to take the
hoses off, and pretty much lift off as one piece, but it doesn't seem
to want to go that way. Anyone know of a easy way to clear all
that mess, before I start just taking all the controls off the carb
itself?
I considered taking it and trying to pass with it real lean, but
decided
I would rather just fix it now. The lean burning scares me to death I
might be frying the head, valves, etc.. No bueno..
At this point, I'm not sure if the "computer" is working right or not..
The voltage for the a/c idle up is not right. Same all the time, on or
off.. But I can't tell if the emissions gear is working or not, cuz of
the too lean mixture.. Normally, the carb runs on the rich side,
and the air bleeds/o2 sensor/puter controls the mix to 14/1..
Being mine is way too lean, those devices don't get called to
operate. No bueno... I decided I might as well get it working right.
I have other trucks, so this can take a while if needed. it won't
be the end of the world if my sticker runs out before I get through.
Did I say working the carb on the typical accord is a royal PIA? yep,
it
sure is... Not like my old ford trucks, where I can remove and rebuild
the
freakin thing quicker than I can remove all the lines from the honda..
I can rebuild carbs ok, but my plan on this one was to just change
the gaskets. The carb works fine.. It's just leaking air in around the
base, and maybe a small amount on the upper gasket.. I haven't
checked for intake gasket leaks yet.. I'll do that when I get the carb
back on and right.. It was fer sure leaking around the carb base.

PS.. I posted this at the other honda group... Thought I might as well
throw
it out here too..

MK

 

nm5k@wt.net wrote:

>
> MK

Update... I got it up enuff to clear the studs, etc..
I ended up taking off about half the vac lines to the
metal line vac contraption, so it would move up and back
along with the carb..
I noticed that there seems to be no real gasket between
the efe heater block, and the carb.. I was thinking there
was one there.. Maybe not.. Anyway, the efe heater block
looked ok with no cracks, etc, so in theory I would think
it was ok. It got dark on me, but it looked like there might
be a gasket under the efe heater. I tried pulling it up off
the studs, but it seemed to be stuck. I didn't bother with
it any more yet.. I'll do that tomorrow. I'd like to change
the lower gasket if it has one.
The screws holding the lower part of the carb to the middle lower
part seemed tight, but I guess the gaskets could be going maybe..
Actually, I don't think it's really leaking that much from the
middle gaskets.. It seemed more like the base when I
was spraying around..
I notice one thing reading the manual about the EFE heater.
It says when installing to make sure the "O-ring and seal"
are properly installed.. I'll have to look again tomorrow, but
I don't remember seeing an o ring or seal on top of the
EFE block. Is there a set underneath? I'm assuming one
ring is needed to seal off the water jacket??
Are these EFE blocks prone to leaking? The carb mounting
bolts were plenty tight, so it wasn't loose. I'll be able to tell
more when I get after it again tomorrow.
MK

 

nm5k@wt.net wrote:

>
> MK

Update... I got it up enuff to clear the studs, etc..
I ended up taking off about half the vac lines to the
metal line vac contraption, so it would move up and back
along with the carb..
I noticed that there seems to be no real gasket between
the efe heater block, and the carb.. I was thinking there
was one there.. Maybe not.. Anyway, the efe heater block
looked ok with no cracks, etc, so in theory I would think
it was ok. It got dark on me, but it looked like there might
be a gasket under the efe heater. I tried pulling it up off
the studs, but it seemed to be stuck. I didn't bother with
it any more yet.. I'll do that tomorrow. I'd like to change
the lower gasket if it has one.
The screws holding the lower part of the carb to the middle lower
part seemed tight, but I guess the gaskets could be going maybe..
Actually, I don't think it's really leaking that much from the
middle gaskets.. It seemed more like the base when I
was spraying around..
I notice one thing reading the manual about the EFE heater.
It says when installing to make sure the "O-ring and seal"
are properly installed.. I'll have to look again tomorrow, but
I don't remember seeing an o ring or seal on top of the
EFE block. Is there a set underneath? I'm assuming one
ring is needed to seal off the water jacket??
Are these EFE blocks prone to leaking? The carb mounting
bolts were plenty tight, so it wasn't loose. I'll be able to tell
more when I get after it again tomorrow.
MK

 

nm5k@wt.net wrote:

>
> MK

Update... I got it up enuff to clear the studs, etc..
I ended up taking off about half the vac lines to the
metal line vac contraption, so it would move up and back
along with the carb..
I noticed that there seems to be no real gasket between
the efe heater block, and the carb.. I was thinking there
was one there.. Maybe not.. Anyway, the efe heater block
looked ok with no cracks, etc, so in theory I would think
it was ok. It got dark on me, but it looked like there might
be a gasket under the efe heater. I tried pulling it up off
the studs, but it seemed to be stuck. I didn't bother with
it any more yet.. I'll do that tomorrow. I'd like to change
the lower gasket if it has one.
The screws holding the lower part of the carb to the middle lower
part seemed tight, but I guess the gaskets could be going maybe..
Actually, I don't think it's really leaking that much from the
middle gaskets.. It seemed more like the base when I
was spraying around..
I notice one thing reading the manual about the EFE heater.
It says when installing to make sure the "O-ring and seal"
are properly installed.. I'll have to look again tomorrow, but
I don't remember seeing an o ring or seal on top of the
EFE block. Is there a set underneath? I'm assuming one
ring is needed to seal off the water jacket??
Are these EFE blocks prone to leaking? The carb mounting
bolts were plenty tight, so it wasn't loose. I'll be able to tell
more when I get after it again tomorrow.
MK

 

nm5k@wt.net wrote:
>
> Update... I got it up enuff to clear the studs, etc..
> I ended up taking off about half the vac lines to the
> metal line vac contraption, so it would move up and back
> along with the carb..

Yes, that's the usual way. Just gently bend the metal lines out of the way
and take the carb up and off complete.

> I noticed that there seems to be no real gasket between
> the efe heater block, and the carb.. I was thinking there
> was one there.. Maybe not..

There's a specially shaped o-ring. See http://tinyurl.com/pfdsu.

> Anyway, the efe heater block
> looked ok with no cracks, etc, so in theory I would think
> it was ok. It got dark on me, but it looked like there might
> be a gasket under the efe heater.

Yes, there's a gasket. See the above link.

> I tried pulling it up off the studs, but it seemed to be stuck.

Pry it up very gently without causing damage to either the block or the
manifold surface.

> I didn't bother with it any more yet.. I'll do that tomorrow. I'd like
> to change the lower gasket if it has one.

There's a gasket. It should be changed. Be careful removing the gasket as
you don't want to scratch the manifold mating surface.

> The screws holding the lower part of the carb to the middle lower
> part seemed tight, but I guess the gaskets could be going maybe..
> Actually, I don't think it's really leaking that much from the
> middle gaskets.. It seemed more like the base when I
> was spraying around..

Leave the carb alone if it's running all right, except for one thing... if
your car has an metal plug installed over the idle mixture mixture screw
then now IS the time to remove it if you haven't already.

> I notice one thing reading the manual about the EFE heater.
> It says when installing to make sure the "O-ring and seal"
> are properly installed.. I'll have to look again tomorrow, but
> I don't remember seeing an o ring or seal on top of the
> EFE block. Is there a set underneath? I'm assuming one
> ring is needed to seal off the water jacket??
> Are these EFE blocks prone to leaking? The carb mounting
> bolts were plenty tight, so it wasn't loose. I'll be able to tell
> more when I get after it again tomorrow.
> MK

Eric
x-no-archive: yes

 

nm5k@wt.net wrote:
>
> Update... I got it up enuff to clear the studs, etc..
> I ended up taking off about half the vac lines to the
> metal line vac contraption, so it would move up and back
> along with the carb..

Yes, that's the usual way. Just gently bend the metal lines out of the way
and take the carb up and off complete.

> I noticed that there seems to be no real gasket between
> the efe heater block, and the carb.. I was thinking there
> was one there.. Maybe not..

There's a specially shaped o-ring. See http://tinyurl.com/pfdsu.

> Anyway, the efe heater block
> looked ok with no cracks, etc, so in theory I would think
> it was ok. It got dark on me, but it looked like there might
> be a gasket under the efe heater.

Yes, there's a gasket. See the above link.

> I tried pulling it up off the studs, but it seemed to be stuck.

Pry it up very gently without causing damage to either the block or the
manifold surface.

> I didn't bother with it any more yet.. I'll do that tomorrow. I'd like
> to change the lower gasket if it has one.

There's a gasket. It should be changed. Be careful removing the gasket as
you don't want to scratch the manifold mating surface.

> The screws holding the lower part of the carb to the middle lower
> part seemed tight, but I guess the gaskets could be going maybe..
> Actually, I don't think it's really leaking that much from the
> middle gaskets.. It seemed more like the base when I
> was spraying around..

Leave the carb alone if it's running all right, except for one thing... if
your car has an metal plug installed over the idle mixture mixture screw
then now IS the time to remove it if you haven't already.

> I notice one thing reading the manual about the EFE heater.
> It says when installing to make sure the "O-ring and seal"
> are properly installed.. I'll have to look again tomorrow, but
> I don't remember seeing an o ring or seal on top of the
> EFE block. Is there a set underneath? I'm assuming one
> ring is needed to seal off the water jacket??
> Are these EFE blocks prone to leaking? The carb mounting
> bolts were plenty tight, so it wasn't loose. I'll be able to tell
> more when I get after it again tomorrow.
> MK

Eric
x-no-archive: yes

 

nm5k@wt.net wrote:
>
> Update... I got it up enuff to clear the studs, etc..
> I ended up taking off about half the vac lines to the
> metal line vac contraption, so it would move up and back
> along with the carb..

Yes, that's the usual way. Just gently bend the metal lines out of the way
and take the carb up and off complete.

> I noticed that there seems to be no real gasket between
> the efe heater block, and the carb.. I was thinking there
> was one there.. Maybe not..

There's a specially shaped o-ring. See http://tinyurl.com/pfdsu.

> Anyway, the efe heater block
> looked ok with no cracks, etc, so in theory I would think
> it was ok. It got dark on me, but it looked like there might
> be a gasket under the efe heater.

Yes, there's a gasket. See the above link.

> I tried pulling it up off the studs, but it seemed to be stuck.

Pry it up very gently without causing damage to either the block or the
manifold surface.

> I didn't bother with it any more yet.. I'll do that tomorrow. I'd like
> to change the lower gasket if it has one.

There's a gasket. It should be changed. Be careful removing the gasket as
you don't want to scratch the manifold mating surface.

> The screws holding the lower part of the carb to the middle lower
> part seemed tight, but I guess the gaskets could be going maybe..
> Actually, I don't think it's really leaking that much from the
> middle gaskets.. It seemed more like the base when I
> was spraying around..

Leave the carb alone if it's running all right, except for one thing... if
your car has an metal plug installed over the idle mixture mixture screw
then now IS the time to remove it if you haven't already.

> I notice one thing reading the manual about the EFE heater.
> It says when installing to make sure the "O-ring and seal"
> are properly installed.. I'll have to look again tomorrow, but
> I don't remember seeing an o ring or seal on top of the
> EFE block. Is there a set underneath? I'm assuming one
> ring is needed to seal off the water jacket??
> Are these EFE blocks prone to leaking? The carb mounting
> bolts were plenty tight, so it wasn't loose. I'll be able to tell
> more when I get after it again tomorrow.
> MK

Eric
x-no-archive: yes

 

Eric wrote:
> nm5k@wt.net wrote:
> >

>
> > I noticed that there seems to be no real gasket between
> > the efe heater block, and the carb.. I was thinking there
> > was one there.. Maybe not..
>
> There's a specially shaped o-ring. See http://tinyurl.com/pfdsu.

Hummmm. I'll look into that. I notice that the online auto parts
lists an o ring and also a regular gasket.
>
> > Anyway, the efe heater block
> > looked ok with no cracks, etc, so in theory I would think
> > it was ok. It got dark on me, but it looked like there might
> > be a gasket under the efe heater.
>
> Yes, there's a gasket. See the above link.
>
> > I tried pulling it up off the studs, but it seemed to be stuck.
>
> Pry it up very gently without causing damage to either the block or the
> manifold surface.
>
> > I didn't bother with it any more yet.. I'll do that tomorrow. I'd like
> > to change the lower gasket if it has one.
>
> There's a gasket. It should be changed. Be careful removing the gasket as
> you don't want to scratch the manifold mating surface.
>
> > The screws holding the lower part of the carb to the middle lower
> > part seemed tight, but I guess the gaskets could be going maybe..
> > Actually, I don't think it's really leaking that much from the
> > middle gaskets.. It seemed more like the base when I
> > was spraying around..
>
> Leave the carb alone if it's running all right, except for one thing... if
> your car has an metal plug installed over the idle mixture mixture screw
> then now IS the time to remove it if you haven't already.

Yep, I was gonna do that. The car ran pretty well before this. Idle was
fairly smooth, etc.. But I did notice some lean misfires at highway
speeds. I was going over the emissions gear, and the O2 was telling me
it was really lean. Pretty much at the end of the scale. "IE: .05 to .1
v range
when fully hot. " So I decided I better fix it.. Not only to protect
the engine,
but I was worried the real lean running would kill me on my NOX score.
Also, I can't tell if the computer and emission gear is actually
working
until I can get it slightly rich so it will kick into action.. I'm
gonna pull
the plug just to be on the safe side. It's possible I might have to
richen it
up a tad if the throttle shafts, or whatever are leaking a bit.. But
I'm gonna
leave that as a last resort and see if I can get it normal just by
fixing the
air leaks first.
>
I was talking to a friend of mine last night who was once a honda
dealer
mechanic in a past life, and he said he's seen some of those EFE
insulators
leaking internally. He also said they can crack sometimes, and it's
real
hard to see them. I guess I'll just put it all back together with as
many fresh
gaskets as I can easily install and see what happens. I didn't think to
check
my manifold/head gaskets before I did this, so it's possible they could
be
leaking a little. I'll do that once it get it going again..
Thanks fer the info..
MK

 

Eric wrote:
> nm5k@wt.net wrote:
> >

>
> > I noticed that there seems to be no real gasket between
> > the efe heater block, and the carb.. I was thinking there
> > was one there.. Maybe not..
>
> There's a specially shaped o-ring. See http://tinyurl.com/pfdsu.

Hummmm. I'll look into that. I notice that the online auto parts
lists an o ring and also a regular gasket.
>
> > Anyway, the efe heater block
> > looked ok with no cracks, etc, so in theory I would think
> > it was ok. It got dark on me, but it looked like there might
> > be a gasket under the efe heater.
>
> Yes, there's a gasket. See the above link.
>
> > I tried pulling it up off the studs, but it seemed to be stuck.
>
> Pry it up very gently without causing damage to either the block or the
> manifold surface.
>
> > I didn't bother with it any more yet.. I'll do that tomorrow. I'd like
> > to change the lower gasket if it has one.
>
> There's a gasket. It should be changed. Be careful removing the gasket as
> you don't want to scratch the manifold mating surface.
>
> > The screws holding the lower part of the carb to the middle lower
> > part seemed tight, but I guess the gaskets could be going maybe..
> > Actually, I don't think it's really leaking that much from the
> > middle gaskets.. It seemed more like the base when I
> > was spraying around..
>
> Leave the carb alone if it's running all right, except for one thing... if
> your car has an metal plug installed over the idle mixture mixture screw
> then now IS the time to remove it if you haven't already.

Yep, I was gonna do that. The car ran pretty well before this. Idle was
fairly smooth, etc.. But I did notice some lean misfires at highway
speeds. I was going over the emissions gear, and the O2 was telling me
it was really lean. Pretty much at the end of the scale. "IE: .05 to .1
v range
when fully hot. " So I decided I better fix it.. Not only to protect
the engine,
but I was worried the real lean running would kill me on my NOX score.
Also, I can't tell if the computer and emission gear is actually
working
until I can get it slightly rich so it will kick into action.. I'm
gonna pull
the plug just to be on the safe side. It's possible I might have to
richen it
up a tad if the throttle shafts, or whatever are leaking a bit.. But
I'm gonna
leave that as a last resort and see if I can get it normal just by
fixing the
air leaks first.
>
I was talking to a friend of mine last night who was once a honda
dealer
mechanic in a past life, and he said he's seen some of those EFE
insulators
leaking internally. He also said they can crack sometimes, and it's
real
hard to see them. I guess I'll just put it all back together with as
many fresh
gaskets as I can easily install and see what happens. I didn't think to
check
my manifold/head gaskets before I did this, so it's possible they could
be
leaking a little. I'll do that once it get it going again..
Thanks fer the info..
MK

 

Eric wrote:
> nm5k@wt.net wrote:
> >

>
> > I noticed that there seems to be no real gasket between
> > the efe heater block, and the carb.. I was thinking there
> > was one there.. Maybe not..
>
> There's a specially shaped o-ring. See http://tinyurl.com/pfdsu.

Hummmm. I'll look into that. I notice that the online auto parts
lists an o ring and also a regular gasket.
>
> > Anyway, the efe heater block
> > looked ok with no cracks, etc, so in theory I would think
> > it was ok. It got dark on me, but it looked like there might
> > be a gasket under the efe heater.
>
> Yes, there's a gasket. See the above link.
>
> > I tried pulling it up off the studs, but it seemed to be stuck.
>
> Pry it up very gently without causing damage to either the block or the
> manifold surface.
>
> > I didn't bother with it any more yet.. I'll do that tomorrow. I'd like
> > to change the lower gasket if it has one.
>
> There's a gasket. It should be changed. Be careful removing the gasket as
> you don't want to scratch the manifold mating surface.
>
> > The screws holding the lower part of the carb to the middle lower
> > part seemed tight, but I guess the gaskets could be going maybe..
> > Actually, I don't think it's really leaking that much from the
> > middle gaskets.. It seemed more like the base when I
> > was spraying around..
>
> Leave the carb alone if it's running all right, except for one thing... if
> your car has an metal plug installed over the idle mixture mixture screw
> then now IS the time to remove it if you haven't already.

Yep, I was gonna do that. The car ran pretty well before this. Idle was
fairly smooth, etc.. But I did notice some lean misfires at highway
speeds. I was going over the emissions gear, and the O2 was telling me
it was really lean. Pretty much at the end of the scale. "IE: .05 to .1
v range
when fully hot. " So I decided I better fix it.. Not only to protect
the engine,
but I was worried the real lean running would kill me on my NOX score.
Also, I can't tell if the computer and emission gear is actually
working
until I can get it slightly rich so it will kick into action.. I'm
gonna pull
the plug just to be on the safe side. It's possible I might have to
richen it
up a tad if the throttle shafts, or whatever are leaking a bit.. But
I'm gonna
leave that as a last resort and see if I can get it normal just by
fixing the
air leaks first.
>
I was talking to a friend of mine last night who was once a honda
dealer
mechanic in a past life, and he said he's seen some of those EFE
insulators
leaking internally. He also said they can crack sometimes, and it's
real
hard to see them. I guess I'll just put it all back together with as
many fresh
gaskets as I can easily install and see what happens. I didn't think to
check
my manifold/head gaskets before I did this, so it's possible they could
be
leaking a little. I'll do that once it get it going again..
Thanks fer the info..
MK

 

Eric wrote:
> nm5k@wt.net wrote:
BTW, I just went out and double checked for the O ring..
It does seem to be there, but it's so flat and squashed down
it's fairly useless to seal the connection. In the semi dark
last night, I thought it was actually part of the insulator cuz
it's so smooth and level with the insulator surface. Sooo...
That probably a lot of the problem. I'll change both that ring,
and the lower gasket..
MK

 

Eric wrote:
> nm5k@wt.net wrote:
BTW, I just went out and double checked for the O ring..
It does seem to be there, but it's so flat and squashed down
it's fairly useless to seal the connection. In the semi dark
last night, I thought it was actually part of the insulator cuz
it's so smooth and level with the insulator surface. Sooo...
That probably a lot of the problem. I'll change both that ring,
and the lower gasket..
MK

 

Eric wrote:
> nm5k@wt.net wrote:
BTW, I just went out and double checked for the O ring..
It does seem to be there, but it's so flat and squashed down
it's fairly useless to seal the connection. In the semi dark
last night, I thought it was actually part of the insulator cuz
it's so smooth and level with the insulator surface. Sooo...
That probably a lot of the problem. I'll change both that ring,
and the lower gasket..
MK