Born suckers
03-12-2007 | 11:48 PM
#31
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Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
Jeff wrote:
>
> "Elliot Richmond" <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote in message
> news:1usav2dpsjpq4t63no5gstbc48h6qgensk@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:37:07 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
>> <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are
>>> better
>>> that Toyota, they buy millions more of their vehicles from them than
>>> buyers
>>> that chose Toyotas LOL
>>>
>> Just a random question. I wonder how the Detroit 3 would be doing in
>> the domestic market if you took rental cars out of the mix? I remember
>> back when the Taurus was supposedly the top selling model in the US,
>> It turned out to be because one of the rental companies bought them by
>> the boatload. Without those sales, the Honda Accord would have been
>> the top seller.
>
> Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used
> ones with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap.
it's almost /worth/ buying a taurus if it's cheap enough. rental
companies were buying them at 50% off list. and selling them at 30% -
40% off list. and they'd had their guts flogged out in between. great
deal for the rental companies. which is why they bought them.
>
> If you want to see how the Michigan 3 would do without rental sales,
> look at how they are doing now. They are decreasing their sales to
> rental companies.
>
> Ford is expected to lose it place as #2 this year in the US market, and
> Toyota's car sales are nearly that of GM's.
>
> Jeff
>
>> Elliot Richmond
>> Itinerant astronomy teacher
>
>
> "Elliot Richmond" <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote in message
> news:1usav2dpsjpq4t63no5gstbc48h6qgensk@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:37:07 -0400, "Mike Hunter"
>> <mikehunt2@mailcity.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Really? Apparently American buyers think GM and Ford products are
>>> better
>>> that Toyota, they buy millions more of their vehicles from them than
>>> buyers
>>> that chose Toyotas LOL
>>>
>> Just a random question. I wonder how the Detroit 3 would be doing in
>> the domestic market if you took rental cars out of the mix? I remember
>> back when the Taurus was supposedly the top selling model in the US,
>> It turned out to be because one of the rental companies bought them by
>> the boatload. Without those sales, the Honda Accord would have been
>> the top seller.
>
> Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used
> ones with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap.
it's almost /worth/ buying a taurus if it's cheap enough. rental
companies were buying them at 50% off list. and selling them at 30% -
40% off list. and they'd had their guts flogged out in between. great
deal for the rental companies. which is why they bought them.
>
> If you want to see how the Michigan 3 would do without rental sales,
> look at how they are doing now. They are decreasing their sales to
> rental companies.
>
> Ford is expected to lose it place as #2 this year in the US market, and
> Toyota's car sales are nearly that of GM's.
>
> Jeff
>
>> Elliot Richmond
>> Itinerant astronomy teacher
>
03-13-2007 | 01:35 AM
#32
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Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
In article <S1WIh.25171$S%2.8517@newsfe06.phx>,
"Don" <DonAdams@GetSmart.com> wrote:
> IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, the
> foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America.
>
> Really simple....
It's not that simple!
The big 2.5 also need to build the designs we want. They don't!
"Don" <DonAdams@GetSmart.com> wrote:
> IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, the
> foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America.
>
> Really simple....
It's not that simple!
The big 2.5 also need to build the designs we want. They don't!
03-13-2007 | 01:44 AM
#33
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Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
In article <uPudnUMHBP8no2nYnZ2dnUVZ_s-rnZ2d@speakeasy.net>,
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
> that's the irony of the op's dumb-*** trolling. japanese companies
> manufacture quality vehicles here, using locally sourced components.
> domestics manufacture crap, in mexico and wherever, and use chinese
> components. and they over-charge. and they cut corners on dangerous
> stuff like red rear turn signals. then they whine about losing market
> share! must be run by sociopaths.
The components they buy are from the same parts companies. Magna is one
of the larger parts companies. Magna is Canadian, but produces parts
around the world. American parts company Delphi (ex of GM) gets most of
their parts outside the USA.
My '95 Chrysler had an original ignition switch used by at least 3
companies, based on the 3 parts numbers on it. One non Chrysler # was
that of a popular German car company.
Most make or buy parts made in Mexico. My '80 Chrysler had Mexican
wheels. My '01 Sebring had a blower resistor made in Mexico and I
believe it's 2.7L engine is from Mexico.
Lastly some Japanese companies also manufacture in Mexico.
It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want.
Major manufacturer quality and prices, regardless of their stripe, is
now very similar.
jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
> that's the irony of the op's dumb-*** trolling. japanese companies
> manufacture quality vehicles here, using locally sourced components.
> domestics manufacture crap, in mexico and wherever, and use chinese
> components. and they over-charge. and they cut corners on dangerous
> stuff like red rear turn signals. then they whine about losing market
> share! must be run by sociopaths.
The components they buy are from the same parts companies. Magna is one
of the larger parts companies. Magna is Canadian, but produces parts
around the world. American parts company Delphi (ex of GM) gets most of
their parts outside the USA.
My '95 Chrysler had an original ignition switch used by at least 3
companies, based on the 3 parts numbers on it. One non Chrysler # was
that of a popular German car company.
Most make or buy parts made in Mexico. My '80 Chrysler had Mexican
wheels. My '01 Sebring had a blower resistor made in Mexico and I
believe it's 2.7L engine is from Mexico.
Lastly some Japanese companies also manufacture in Mexico.
It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want.
Major manufacturer quality and prices, regardless of their stripe, is
now very similar.
03-13-2007 | 01:50 AM
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
In article <2ni9v21kulsg4kdm0dv52c2ml62b9ht2ds@4ax.com>,
Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
> GM still outsells Toyota but their market share has been eroding for
> the last 30 years. Toyota's share is increasing rapidly as, to a
> lesser extent, is Honda's. If recent trends were to continue for the
> next four years, the 2010 sales leaders would be Toyota, GM,
> Daimler-chrysler, Honda, Ford in that order.
Nope!
Toyota, GM, Honda, Ford, Chrysler,,,...........,,,, Daimler.
Gordon McGrew <RgEmMcOgVrEew@mindspring.com> wrote:
> GM still outsells Toyota but their market share has been eroding for
> the last 30 years. Toyota's share is increasing rapidly as, to a
> lesser extent, is Honda's. If recent trends were to continue for the
> next four years, the 2010 sales leaders would be Toyota, GM,
> Daimler-chrysler, Honda, Ford in that order.
Nope!
Toyota, GM, Honda, Ford, Chrysler,,,...........,,,, Daimler.
03-13-2007 | 01:53 AM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
In article <%VcJh.5885$vb.3007@trndny04>,
Hachiroku ハチク <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
> My Scion sounds downright tinny! The manufacturing seems to be good, and
> the parts good, but I notice more clips and fewer bolts, and the like.
It's a bottom end car, hardly comparable to anything built in NAFTA.
For example GM gets it's bottom end cars from Korea.
Hachiroku ハチク <Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
> My Scion sounds downright tinny! The manufacturing seems to be good, and
> the parts good, but I notice more clips and fewer bolts, and the like.
It's a bottom end car, hardly comparable to anything built in NAFTA.
For example GM gets it's bottom end cars from Korea.
03-13-2007 | 01:57 AM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
In article <1usav2dpsjpq4t63no5gstbc48h6qgensk@4ax.com>,
Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
> Just a random question. I wonder how the Detroit 3 would be doing in
> the domestic market if you took rental cars out of the mix? I remember
> back when the Taurus was supposedly the top selling model in the US,
> It turned out to be because one of the rental companies bought them by
> the boatload. Without those sales, the Honda Accord would have been
> the top seller.
The rental companies still need cars, every 20K or less.
I hear they aren't getting the purchase deals they used to.
Elliot Richmond <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
> Just a random question. I wonder how the Detroit 3 would be doing in
> the domestic market if you took rental cars out of the mix? I remember
> back when the Taurus was supposedly the top selling model in the US,
> It turned out to be because one of the rental companies bought them by
> the boatload. Without those sales, the Honda Accord would have been
> the top seller.
The rental companies still need cars, every 20K or less.
I hear they aren't getting the purchase deals they used to.
03-13-2007 | 01:59 AM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
In article <BAeJh.2684$I56.125@trnddc06>, "Jeff" <news@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used ones
> with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap.
My friend bought a '96 Taurus SW used rental, which he just traded after
105k low cost miles.
wrote:
> Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used ones
> with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap.
My friend bought a '96 Taurus SW used rental, which he just traded after
105k low cost miles.
03-13-2007 | 03:30 AM
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
"Don" <DonAdams@GetSmart.com> wrote in message
news:S1WIh.25171$S%2.8517@newsfe06.phx...
> IF American car companies made the best cars and trucks on the market, the
> foreign car companies wouldn't be so popular in North America.
>
> Really simple....
I would submit that explanation is not simple but rather simplistic. Far too
simplistic. There are many, many factors involved in this situation that
have nothing to do with quality of product.
DaveD
03-13-2007 | 08:43 AM
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
> It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want.
Actually its about manufacturing vehicles with all the bells and whistles
that people don't need, to force higher prices and margins. I challange you
to go to any new car lot and try to find a *BASIC* transportation car, or
truck or van. You won't find one, they are not being made or kept on the
lot. Why should they when the models that have the "luxury" packages on them
command a much higher prices and profits. When I bought my Tundra, it was
the only truck that had the cloth seats I needed without having to spend an
extra $10,000 for a luxury package*JUST* for the cloth seats, and also lose
the engine/transmission that I needed.
> Major manufacturer quality and prices, regardless of their stripe, is
> now very similar.
Maybe for the "big 3"
03-13-2007 | 11:53 AM
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 05:53:22 +0000, who wrote:
> In article <%VcJh.5885$vb.3007@trndny04>,
> Hachiroku ããã㯠<Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>
>> My Scion sounds downright tinny! The manufacturing seems to be good, and
>> the parts good, but I notice more clips and fewer bolts, and the like.
>
> It's a bottom end car, hardly comparable to anything built in NAFTA.
Seen a Cobalt?
> For example GM gets it's bottom end cars from Korea.
And I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole.
I worked at a Toyota dealer in '05. They are ALL getting a little 'cheaper'.
BTW, test times for the tC with the 2.4 L engine are within 10ths of a
second of my '88 Supra with the N/A engine when it was tested new. Good
enough for me. And it even makes my 'Hachiroku' seem like a sled...
> In article <%VcJh.5885$vb.3007@trndny04>,
> Hachiroku ããã㯠<Trueno@AE86.gts> wrote:
>
>> My Scion sounds downright tinny! The manufacturing seems to be good, and
>> the parts good, but I notice more clips and fewer bolts, and the like.
>
> It's a bottom end car, hardly comparable to anything built in NAFTA.
Seen a Cobalt?
> For example GM gets it's bottom end cars from Korea.
And I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole.
I worked at a Toyota dealer in '05. They are ALL getting a little 'cheaper'.
BTW, test times for the tC with the 2.4 L engine are within 10ths of a
second of my '88 Supra with the N/A engine when it was tested new. Good
enough for me. And it even makes my 'Hachiroku' seem like a sled...
03-13-2007 | 12:05 PM
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 05:55:15 +0000, Some O wrote:
> In article <IcdJh.40873$6P2.17747@newsfe16.phx>,
> "JoeBillyBob" <JoeBillyBob@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> but I sure do miss that LHS...
>
> I still have my '95 Chrysler LH, which is my only car. Runs and looks like
> new.
Mine had afew bumps and groans; one dent in the trunk, a leaky trans
cooler line and leaky valve cover gaskets. Other than that, that car was
COOL! And when I first got it, fuel economy was as good as my Scion! It
started slipping the second year...I was only getting 23 MPG overall!
> In article <IcdJh.40873$6P2.17747@newsfe16.phx>,
> "JoeBillyBob" <JoeBillyBob@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> but I sure do miss that LHS...
>
> I still have my '95 Chrysler LH, which is my only car. Runs and looks like
> new.
Mine had afew bumps and groans; one dent in the trunk, a leaky trans
cooler line and leaky valve cover gaskets. Other than that, that car was
COOL! And when I first got it, fuel economy was as good as my Scion! It
started slipping the second year...I was only getting 23 MPG overall!
03-13-2007 | 12:07 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 05:59:28 +0000, Some O wrote:
> In article <BAeJh.2684$I56.125@trnddc06>, "Jeff" <news@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used
>> ones with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap.
> My friend bought a '96 Taurus SW used rental, which he just traded after
> 105k low cost miles.
They were decent cars if you maintained them.
I need a wagon or a van. I have a really nice Mazda 626 Winter beater, but
I would like a Subaru AWD wagon, or a Toyota Corolla All-Trac, but a
decent Sable or Taurus would make the list, too...
My preferences are: Toyota, then Subaru, then Ford. Actually, Ford kinda
ranks higher than Subaru, but I like AWD without having to drive an SUV...
> In article <BAeJh.2684$I56.125@trnddc06>, "Jeff" <news@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Actually, a lot of people really like the Taurus. They bought the used
>> ones with like 15k or 20k mi on them cheap.
> My friend bought a '96 Taurus SW used rental, which he just traded after
> 105k low cost miles.
They were decent cars if you maintained them.
I need a wagon or a van. I have a really nice Mazda 626 Winter beater, but
I would like a Subaru AWD wagon, or a Toyota Corolla All-Trac, but a
decent Sable or Taurus would make the list, too...
My preferences are: Toyota, then Subaru, then Ford. Actually, Ford kinda
ranks higher than Subaru, but I like AWD without having to drive an SUV...
03-13-2007 | 12:11 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:43:55 -0500, Noon-Air wrote:
>> It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want.
>
> Actually its about manufacturing vehicles with all the bells and whistles
> that people don't need, to force higher prices and margins.
I agree. My favorite cars were Corollas from the 70's and 80's, with very
few creature comforts. My Scion has a lot of bells and whistles, but has
that minimal feel nonetheless.
My Supra is a powerful car, but think how much more powerful it would be
without all the weight the bells and whistles added to it!
>> It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want.
>
> Actually its about manufacturing vehicles with all the bells and whistles
> that people don't need, to force higher prices and margins.
I agree. My favorite cars were Corollas from the 70's and 80's, with very
few creature comforts. My Scion has a lot of bells and whistles, but has
that minimal feel nonetheless.
My Supra is a powerful car, but think how much more powerful it would be
without all the weight the bells and whistles added to it!
03-13-2007 | 01:13 PM
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Born suckers
In article <x-KdnVJtA5cSAWvYnZ2dnUVZ_hmtnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote:
> > It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want.
>
> Actually its about manufacturing vehicles with all the bells and whistles
> that people don't need, to force higher prices and margins. I challange you
> to go to any new car lot and try to find a *BASIC* transportation car, or
> truck or van.
Yes many want to buy all the bells and whistles, but not me. I don't
want basic either, but certainly not the latest toys such as GPS, DVD
player or even a sun roof.
I just want a mid or slightly smaller sized station Wagon, similar to
the Subaru Trooper in size.
The big 2.5, Toyota and others don't make them anymore.
VW and Volvo do, but UGH!
I just noticed that the new Ford Focus no longer comes in a SW style,
which will be noticed here where the Focus SW has been a big seller.
"Noon-Air" <Noon-Air@comcast.net> wrote:
> > It's all about manufacturing the vehicles people want.
>
> Actually its about manufacturing vehicles with all the bells and whistles
> that people don't need, to force higher prices and margins. I challange you
> to go to any new car lot and try to find a *BASIC* transportation car, or
> truck or van.
Yes many want to buy all the bells and whistles, but not me. I don't
want basic either, but certainly not the latest toys such as GPS, DVD
player or even a sun roof.
I just want a mid or slightly smaller sized station Wagon, similar to
the Subaru Trooper in size.
The big 2.5, Toyota and others don't make them anymore.
VW and Volvo do, but UGH!
I just noticed that the new Ford Focus no longer comes in a SW style,
which will be noticed here where the Focus SW has been a big seller.